So... If the items in it generally balance out to not making any money at all: All the ADs you spend on it are returned and every day you build up on ADs with the different characters you're just adding to your stockpile of ADs.
I really don't see the downside, here. Either you make money in the short term (or you more or less break even) or you make money in the long term.
-Rachel-
The ADs would only be returned if you sold every single item that came out of them, which is the same thing as not purchasing a box in the first place.
The ADs would only be returned if you sold every single item that came out of them, which is the same thing as not purchasing a box in the first place.
Yes. However if you read the rest of my post I suggested having one or more alts who's only purpose in existence was doing the daily foundry, skirmish, and dungeons to net you another 6k+ AD a day per alt. Plus any you pick up along the way through invocation and Leadership.
-Rachel-
Great Weapon Fighter tanks? Who are you kidding? Cleric tanks. They draw -all- the aggro.
Are nightmare lock boxes worth a lot or something? I just started the game yesterday (level 8 now) and I found one but I didn't know if I could sell it so it's just sitting in my inventory now.
Are nightmare lock boxes worth a lot or something? I just started the game yesterday (level 8 now) and I found one but I didn't know if I could sell it so it's just sitting in my inventory now.
I bought 9 of them for 20 AD. You can't really sell them on the market for more than 190 AD because they're sold for 200 AD by a vendor.
They can contain rare and very rare items, and will at the very least contain uncommon items.
But it costs either Real Money or In Game Effort to unlock them.
-Rachel-
Great Weapon Fighter tanks? Who are you kidding? Cleric tanks. They draw -all- the aggro.
Yes. However if you read the rest of my post I suggested having one or more alts who's only purpose in existence was doing the daily foundry, skirmish, and dungeons to net you another 6k+ AD a day per alt. Plus any you pick up along the way through invocation and Leadership.
-Rachel-
Oh, yes, I do not disagree with that at all. I just think it will be to transfer the alt ADs to a central character by utilizing the Zen:AD conversion market directly on each character rather than going through the middle men of lock boxes and keys.
Oh, yes, I do not disagree with that at all. I just think it will be to transfer the alt ADs to a central character by utilizing the Zen:AD conversion market directly on each character rather than going through the middle men of lock boxes and keys.
Oh! No. Heh. The lockboxes and keys are just turning out, for me, to be a gold mine. At least in the short term. Though after I made this thread I bought 9 lockboxes for 20 AD (as I noted previously) and spent nearly 400k unlocking them all. I only made 500k, so far, off of what is in them. Though I -probably- will keep the coffers for myself unless a purple weapon enchant drops again.
I don't have any 60s, yet.
-Rachel-
Great Weapon Fighter tanks? Who are you kidding? Cleric tanks. They draw -all- the aggro.
Oh! No. Heh. The lockboxes and keys are just turning out, for me, to be a gold mine. At least in the short term. Though after I made this thread I bought 9 lockboxes for 20 AD (as I noted previously) and spent nearly 400k unlocking them all. I only made 500k, so far, off of what is in them. Though I -probably- will keep the coffers for myself unless a purple weapon enchant drops again.
I don't have any 60s, yet.
-Rachel-
I definitely agree that at the moment the lock boxes are the best value for your money out there, so what you're doing is a smart way to handle the market as it exists right now. It's just that long term, lock boxes will not be a definitive answer on how to make money (since there is some concern floating around regarding the daily refinement cap). I'm probably splitting hairs and I'm sure you're just trying to help new people deal with breaking into the game right now.
And I am trying to help. For whatever little bit it seems to be worth. Thank you for noticing!
-Rachel-
Great Weapon Fighter tanks? Who are you kidding? Cleric tanks. They draw -all- the aggro.
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direcrowBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Yeah this entire post and theory hinges on one very important key.
you have to get lucky and get a nightmare out of a box.
None of this would have been possible had the OP not won a horse. 99% of anyone attempting this, would never get past step one. Sure its all easy when you luck out, and get an item with a <1% drop rate.
You can open 100 boxes and get nothing. and by then you've spent a fortune.
Mindflayer Shard - @direcrow
The Dire Crow - Tiefling TR
Alice L'ddell - Human GF
Ludovique - Tiefling DC
Only if you had a fortune to spend in the first place which you earn with the alts, and even if you don't get nightmares there's still blues and purples to sell, and the 40k AD idol quest repeatable...
But yeah. Ignore everything else to go on about how it was a lottery that I bought, even though I didn't spend money in the first place.
-Rachel-
Great Weapon Fighter tanks? Who are you kidding? Cleric tanks. They draw -all- the aggro.
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direcrowBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Only if you had a fortune to spend in the first place which you earn with the alts, and even if you don't get nightmares there's still blues and purples to sell, and the 40k AD idol quest repeatable...
But yeah. Ignore everything else to go on about how it was a lottery that I bought, even though I didn't spend money in the first place.
-Rachel-
Yeah ignore the fact that those things are also rare/uncommon drops, and that you got them, by opening a **** ton of boxes, because you sold a nightmare in the first place. Yeah those things can sell for a good sum. IF YOU GET THEM, and only reason you had so many is because you got a god **** nightmare! So yeah all that stuff for you, added to the pot. But for anyone who only gets those things, or less, they'll never have the position you did.
Keep ignoring the fact that to get any of the expensive stuff, you still have to be lucky. Try doing what you did without the nightmare. Say you just got a few dye packs. Not happening.
Mindflayer Shard - @direcrow
The Dire Crow - Tiefling TR
Alice L'ddell - Human GF
Ludovique - Tiefling DC
This is what I have been saying all along. I do love NWN and STO have this option. Players can use the current SYSTEM and get everything. They just need to invest in time (and in your case a little luck) BUT it is possible.
Yeah I do something similar in STO when I need something. Got an engineer and tactical captain i only play to do the dilithium dailies, then i transfer the dil to my other toons via the exchange and voila I have enough for my main to get geared however I want him to be.
Yeah ignore the fact that those things are also rare/uncommon drops, and that you got them, by opening a **** ton of boxes, because you sold a nightmare in the first place. Yeah those things can sell for a good sum. IF YOU GET THEM, and only reason you had so many is because you got a god **** nightmare! So yeah all that stuff for you, added to the pot. But for anyone who only gets those things, or less, they'll never have the position you did.
Keep ignoring the fact that to get any of the expensive stuff, you still have to be lucky. Try doing what you did without the nightmare. Say you just got a few dye packs. Not happening.
I was 12 crates in before I got the first nightmare. And I was stacking AD before I got it.
I didn't open 2 boxes and immediately get nightmares, Crow. The method was working BEFORE I got that.
-Rachel-
Great Weapon Fighter tanks? Who are you kidding? Cleric tanks. They draw -all- the aggro.
I completely agree with you, lokaidraxmartis. So far the community in this game reminds me of the community from a city I used to live in. People with money act like they're better than those without. You can see it in their attitudes. That's why they keep assuming that people who want the prices in the cash shop lowered are just whining because they want everything for free. They just keep assuming we're all a bunch of lazy, no-good freeloaders who want everything for free, all because we don't see the value in the cash shop currently. I'm not a freeloader, I'm a value shopper. I don't like to waste money. Here's an example:
Character Slot = $5
Too pricey, imo. Now, if they dropped it to say, $3, I would buy it up. Why? Because, to me, $10 for 3 characters is much better than $10 for 2 characters. Having a total of 5 character slots gives a player with my playing style everything I'd need for awhile. 3 slots for permanent characters, 2 slots for trying out different things(like when new races, or classes become available). Would I buy more later? Probably, because I'm an alt-aholic. But limiting someone with alt-itis his alt-fix unless he's willing to spend a lot of money, is not the best business plan. If I don't see value, I don't buy.
Yeah, I agree with you here. I think this business model doesn't take into account how many small transactions people feel comfortable making, over the large transactions. What's interesting is that most things you buy are character only. So why not make more character slots cheap? Like $2. They will still need to buy bags, etc for that character. It induces more buying.
Everlight - A Prologue
Shortcode: NW-DM417VRJK
Combat orientated Mission, with a little bit of story to move you along.
So I decided to try an experiment with my control wizard. I have the Guardian pack but I didn't withdraw a single diamond from the bank (on her) and threw away my adventurer's pack and Graycloak's legacy on her.
And then I ran missions, storyline and foundry, hit up skirmishes and dungeons, but I didn't enter into PvP because it's just not my cup of tea. I traded in my astral diamonds for Zen and bought keys for the lockboxes I could afford and sold the rest on the market.
Then I got a Nightmare. And then I sold that nightmare on the market for 2 million astral diamonds. I used another 450,000 astral diamonds on fruitless keys and lockboxes until I won another one. Which I then sold for 1.8 million astral diamonds.
My character is, currently, level 39. And I had 3.3 million astral diamonds before I started shifting them over to other characters. Though, to be fair, I also got the Astral Diamond Statue/Relic quest twice out of the lockboxes I opened, so that was another 80,000 AD I didn't have to actually earn/
So how do you avoid spending money or investing huge amounts of time and make some quick AD/Zen? Alts. You've got 2 character slots to start with. Get them both leveled up and do your dailies the whole way through. Use your AD to get some zen and pop open some lockboxes. Use the winnings to purchase 2 more character slots. Grind up a little more AD and transfer your lockboxes to one character. Offer to buy huge amounts of Zen at 50 AD per zen and then cancel the bid on the "Main Lockbox Opener" character and withdraw the Astral Diamonds for the Lockboxer.
Then buy keys.
It's actually pretty damned fast. My other character I was doing this with is only level 16 right now and I only -really- used her to do daily skirmishes and the Cloak Tower.
TL;DR Version: Get yourself AD from Dailies and such, use a second character to do dailies/prayer -only- while your main character is having fun and leveling up or whatever, buy keys with AD, get lots of AD, use AD to get Zen, profit.
-Rachel-
I sort of feel that your own story ruins the idea that you are trying to share. Mentioning pulling two nightmares is just going to get people riled up instead actually listening to what you want to say. I know I've opened my fair share of lockboxes, and nothing special yet. I understand your point. I actually opened all those lockboxes because i bought $5 in zen, and then bought keys and sold them on the AH. using that AD I bought more zen and bought more keys. The exchange rate and sale price of keys led to a nice profit.
Guess I turned 500 into about 3200 Zen or so. So I know what you are trying to say, but again, seems like your own luck kind of discredits the value of what you are trying to say.
Everlight - A Prologue
Shortcode: NW-DM417VRJK
Combat orientated Mission, with a little bit of story to move you along.
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sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Yeah I do something similar in STO when I need something. Got an engineer and tactical captain i only play to do the dilithium dailies, then i transfer the dil to my other toons via the exchange and voila I have enough for my main to get geared however I want him to be.
It does take time. I know that players are impatient an want stuff now, but this is a F2P so the company has to make money. If a player play this game a year or two could probably "unlock" everything for their character (max bags, costumes etc etc) by going via AD/Zen market and see stuff they earn on AH for AD.
Don't let people get you down. people just love shouting p2w when a game is marked free. It is really cool what you did maybe you should roll another char and attempt to get similar results without chance boxes, just resell dyes and costume bits for vastly inflated prices. the more currencies there are in a game the more chance there is to make profit on the value shifts.
And for people pointing at her title remember she stripped her char of founders goods. PWE's play modle is betting for every person that is willing to grind ad and trade it for zen there are 5 that find it easier to just buy zen cards, and for everyone who is lucky enough to win 2 horsesthere are 5 that never win (though you can put the tradebar goods on sale) for every one who can trade on the auctionhouse for profit, there are 5 who will spend 100k-1,000,000k AD just to get the items they want,
Also the last thing everyone who whines about games being P2W you have to keep in mind. these games are free to PLAY noone said anything about them being free to win. nor should they there is no such thing as free to win games. at least not how some people see free. even MUDS if you have the premium clients that have triggers and automappers you have a better shout at winning. at the end of the day you really cant expect anything "free" everything either takes work, time and intelegence, Luck, or cold hard cash, often 2 of the 3.
In the same lines, I have an even better idea: use that amazing luck to play the lottery, win $ 1 billion, buy Cryptic (yes, the entire studio), make yourself an admin and use God powers in game. Easy!
And for all others going "yeah I knew how to play the market and make 999x profit", no, sorry, you were just lucky as well. By some miracle of fate, prices went in a direction that was good for you, even though prices right now are going up and down like crazy still trying to adjust to *2 million AD founders* + *greedy kids who then used mommy's credit card to buy 10.000 zen* + *the lack of information, meaning that few (or no) players are yet fully aware of any and all resources/loot/etc.*.
If you want to make money in a sensible manner, the only real ways right now are to either play like a madman and enter the high-demand, low-supply epix market, OR design some cool foundry quest and hope for nice tips OR find out a new piece of information and abuse it.
Still, always fun to get a good laugh of people with insane luck going *oh yeah I beat the system!!!*.
I'm a free to play player who wanted to do this - I have yet to earn 40K diamonds. I run skirmishes and dungeons on the queue and do missions while waiting. I've played 4-6 hours a day roughly. I also do all the tradeskill missions that return diamonds.
I started with a cleric and switched to rogue for faster kill times both are around level 35 - rogue has 22k and cleric has 10kish
Trading diamonds for zen at the current rate would net me 66 Zen. I can't even buy a key for that!
Lets say you're way more awesome which makes sense youve obviously played longer and were probably in beta. Lets say you're doing 10 times my return. You have 400,000 AD's traded in you get 888 Zen (current rate of 450 diamonds per zen) which allows you to buy 7 keys (125 zen per key) Plus the 10 keys you got from selling your first 600,000. Lets say you did everything just right and bought 2x10 keys @ 1125 each.
Twenty keys net.
My math for argument sake
600,000 AD's from Guardian Pack
400,000 AD's from playing
1,000,000 AD's converts to roughly 2,222 Zen
2222 Zen buys 20 keys on the 10 keys @ 1125 (you're short but its all hypothetical)
I'm not disputing you, 20 keys is enough to get lucky with. I do think it's irresponsible to use this as a how to example.
Please feel free to attack my math, it could be Ive missed something.
This morning I was buying 1 zen for 415. Currently it's at 430 on the low end, since more players are online. And that price will continue to drop as the game goes further (120 is the lowest I've seen on CO or STO)
Your math is correct, except that I didn't use my Guardian Pack ADs at all, and have been doing the daily missions from Rhix to earn an extra 10,000 AD a day -per character-. That's the big key, there, I suppose, for getting the seed money up.
-Rachel-
Great Weapon Fighter tanks? Who are you kidding? Cleric tanks. They draw -all- the aggro.
So basically shuffle between 2 - 4 characters, get lucky enough to get not one, but TWO nightmare mounts, and turn the game into a second job? Sounds about right.
Just out of curiosity, how many hours a day do you devote to the game?
I work from home online, currently. I put about 3-5 into it over the course of the day. Though many of those hours are broken by alt-tabbing to these forums, the boards at work, and similar.
-Rachel-
Great Weapon Fighter tanks? Who are you kidding? Cleric tanks. They draw -all- the aggro.
I've opened around 60 boxes and no mount, no pet. I did buy keys for the first few then used AD for the rest. I was hoping I could get a mount or pet but it didnt happen.
Open the Launcher. Click Options near the top. Check Disable on-demand patching. This will download another couple of gigs.
Have you gotten Idols, Coalescent Wards, or enchantment coffers with blues and purples?
The idol is worth a 40k AD coffer, the coalescent ward sells for upwards of 100k ADs (almost enough to buy 2 more keys on it's own) and some of the purples will nab you up to 400k AD on the market. I pulled a plaguefire enchantment. It sold in a heartbeat for 440k.
-Rachel-
Great Weapon Fighter tanks? Who are you kidding? Cleric tanks. They draw -all- the aggro.
Playing with the Zen exchange, right now, is probably the quickest way to profit, and it should remain so until all the founder's AD funds have been exhausted, more of the population reaches max level, and the AH prices drop; but, like the stock market, you could be a mogul one minute and it could have you by the short and curlies the next. Eventually, though, it's going to drop tremendously and everyone that hoarded AD are going to make out like bandits.
Comments
The ADs would only be returned if you sold every single item that came out of them, which is the same thing as not purchasing a box in the first place.
You don't say.... Thanks for that lesson on how buying something for less is better.
Yes. However if you read the rest of my post I suggested having one or more alts who's only purpose in existence was doing the daily foundry, skirmish, and dungeons to net you another 6k+ AD a day per alt. Plus any you pick up along the way through invocation and Leadership.
-Rachel-
I bought 9 of them for 20 AD. You can't really sell them on the market for more than 190 AD because they're sold for 200 AD by a vendor.
They can contain rare and very rare items, and will at the very least contain uncommon items.
But it costs either Real Money or In Game Effort to unlock them.
-Rachel-
Oh, yes, I do not disagree with that at all. I just think it will be to transfer the alt ADs to a central character by utilizing the Zen:AD conversion market directly on each character rather than going through the middle men of lock boxes and keys.
Oh! No. Heh. The lockboxes and keys are just turning out, for me, to be a gold mine. At least in the short term. Though after I made this thread I bought 9 lockboxes for 20 AD (as I noted previously) and spent nearly 400k unlocking them all. I only made 500k, so far, off of what is in them. Though I -probably- will keep the coffers for myself unless a purple weapon enchant drops again.
I don't have any 60s, yet.
-Rachel-
I definitely agree that at the moment the lock boxes are the best value for your money out there, so what you're doing is a smart way to handle the market as it exists right now. It's just that long term, lock boxes will not be a definitive answer on how to make money (since there is some concern floating around regarding the daily refinement cap). I'm probably splitting hairs and I'm sure you're just trying to help new people deal with breaking into the game right now.
And I am trying to help. For whatever little bit it seems to be worth. Thank you for noticing!
-Rachel-
you have to get lucky and get a nightmare out of a box.
None of this would have been possible had the OP not won a horse. 99% of anyone attempting this, would never get past step one. Sure its all easy when you luck out, and get an item with a <1% drop rate.
You can open 100 boxes and get nothing. and by then you've spent a fortune.
The Dire Crow - Tiefling TR
Alice L'ddell - Human GF
Ludovique - Tiefling DC
But yeah. Ignore everything else to go on about how it was a lottery that I bought, even though I didn't spend money in the first place.
-Rachel-
Yeah ignore the fact that those things are also rare/uncommon drops, and that you got them, by opening a **** ton of boxes, because you sold a nightmare in the first place. Yeah those things can sell for a good sum. IF YOU GET THEM, and only reason you had so many is because you got a god **** nightmare! So yeah all that stuff for you, added to the pot. But for anyone who only gets those things, or less, they'll never have the position you did.
Keep ignoring the fact that to get any of the expensive stuff, you still have to be lucky. Try doing what you did without the nightmare. Say you just got a few dye packs. Not happening.
The Dire Crow - Tiefling TR
Alice L'ddell - Human GF
Ludovique - Tiefling DC
Yeah I do something similar in STO when I need something. Got an engineer and tactical captain i only play to do the dilithium dailies, then i transfer the dil to my other toons via the exchange and voila I have enough for my main to get geared however I want him to be.
I was 12 crates in before I got the first nightmare. And I was stacking AD before I got it.
I didn't open 2 boxes and immediately get nightmares, Crow. The method was working BEFORE I got that.
-Rachel-
Yeah, I agree with you here. I think this business model doesn't take into account how many small transactions people feel comfortable making, over the large transactions. What's interesting is that most things you buy are character only. So why not make more character slots cheap? Like $2. They will still need to buy bags, etc for that character. It induces more buying.
Shortcode: NW-DM417VRJK
Combat orientated Mission, with a little bit of story to move you along.
I sort of feel that your own story ruins the idea that you are trying to share. Mentioning pulling two nightmares is just going to get people riled up instead actually listening to what you want to say. I know I've opened my fair share of lockboxes, and nothing special yet. I understand your point. I actually opened all those lockboxes because i bought $5 in zen, and then bought keys and sold them on the AH. using that AD I bought more zen and bought more keys. The exchange rate and sale price of keys led to a nice profit.
Guess I turned 500 into about 3200 Zen or so. So I know what you are trying to say, but again, seems like your own luck kind of discredits the value of what you are trying to say.
Shortcode: NW-DM417VRJK
Combat orientated Mission, with a little bit of story to move you along.
It does take time. I know that players are impatient an want stuff now, but this is a F2P so the company has to make money. If a player play this game a year or two could probably "unlock" everything for their character (max bags, costumes etc etc) by going via AD/Zen market and see stuff they earn on AH for AD.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
And for people pointing at her title remember she stripped her char of founders goods. PWE's play modle is betting for every person that is willing to grind ad and trade it for zen there are 5 that find it easier to just buy zen cards, and for everyone who is lucky enough to win 2 horsesthere are 5 that never win (though you can put the tradebar goods on sale) for every one who can trade on the auctionhouse for profit, there are 5 who will spend 100k-1,000,000k AD just to get the items they want,
Also the last thing everyone who whines about games being P2W you have to keep in mind. these games are free to PLAY noone said anything about them being free to win. nor should they there is no such thing as free to win games. at least not how some people see free. even MUDS if you have the premium clients that have triggers and automappers you have a better shout at winning. at the end of the day you really cant expect anything "free" everything either takes work, time and intelegence, Luck, or cold hard cash, often 2 of the 3.
You can do it all with time and muscle through everything else.
-Rachel-
And for all others going "yeah I knew how to play the market and make 999x profit", no, sorry, you were just lucky as well. By some miracle of fate, prices went in a direction that was good for you, even though prices right now are going up and down like crazy still trying to adjust to *2 million AD founders* + *greedy kids who then used mommy's credit card to buy 10.000 zen* + *the lack of information, meaning that few (or no) players are yet fully aware of any and all resources/loot/etc.*.
If you want to make money in a sensible manner, the only real ways right now are to either play like a madman and enter the high-demand, low-supply epix market, OR design some cool foundry quest and hope for nice tips OR find out a new piece of information and abuse it.
Still, always fun to get a good laugh of people with insane luck going *oh yeah I beat the system!!!*.
But that's completely an aside to trying to help people see different ways around plunking down cash if they don't want to.
Maybe use your amazing reading comprehension to read the whole thread.
-Rachel-
I started with a cleric and switched to rogue for faster kill times both are around level 35 - rogue has 22k and cleric has 10kish
Trading diamonds for zen at the current rate would net me 66 Zen. I can't even buy a key for that!
Lets say you're way more awesome which makes sense youve obviously played longer and were probably in beta. Lets say you're doing 10 times my return. You have 400,000 AD's traded in you get 888 Zen (current rate of 450 diamonds per zen) which allows you to buy 7 keys (125 zen per key) Plus the 10 keys you got from selling your first 600,000. Lets say you did everything just right and bought 2x10 keys @ 1125 each.
Twenty keys net.
My math for argument sake
600,000 AD's from Guardian Pack
400,000 AD's from playing
1,000,000 AD's converts to roughly 2,222 Zen
2222 Zen buys 20 keys on the 10 keys @ 1125 (you're short but its all hypothetical)
I'm not disputing you, 20 keys is enough to get lucky with. I do think it's irresponsible to use this as a how to example.
Please feel free to attack my math, it could be Ive missed something.
Your math is correct, except that I didn't use my Guardian Pack ADs at all, and have been doing the daily missions from Rhix to earn an extra 10,000 AD a day -per character-. That's the big key, there, I suppose, for getting the seed money up.
-Rachel-
Just out of curiosity, how many hours a day do you devote to the game?
-Rachel-
Ability Scores || All Attribute Roll Combinations || My Cleric Stream \o/
The idol is worth a 40k AD coffer, the coalescent ward sells for upwards of 100k ADs (almost enough to buy 2 more keys on it's own) and some of the purples will nab you up to 400k AD on the market. I pulled a plaguefire enchantment. It sold in a heartbeat for 440k.
-Rachel-