And your point? I've seen the claim made that every single MMO is actually in beta and from some angles that is true.
But NWNO is particularly short on finished and polished systems. The core game is there but far to many systems are just skeletons. To be truly ready for launch the game needs more paragon paths, more races and classes, and more weapon and armor models. Also key systems like companion training are still missing.
So, all of the other games out there that add new classes or races have actually just been in beta? Seriously, why are you arguing that your statement can also be the definition of an update.
I remember VG launching, now that should of still been a beta. I was max level and running through dungeons with no mobs, fighting mobs that were dropping dungeon loot... The point is that this game is done enough by industry standards for MMOs. Not that I have ever been happy about the terrible standards of "launch" games, but it is what it is, I play the games and deal with it.
Before you can make a house you must first make a foundation. Right now that is still being worked on before you can put the window dressings on and make the house look pretty. Patience young adventurer.
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terradraconisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
So, all of the other games out there that add new classes or races have actually just been in beta? Seriously, why are you arguing that your statement can also be the definition of an update.
I remember VG launching, now that should of still been a beta. I was max level and running through dungeons with no mobs, fighting mobs that were dropping dungeon loot... The point is that this game is done enough by industry standards for MMOs. Not that I have ever been happy about the terrible standards of "launch" games, but it is what it is, I play the games and deal with it.
So your firmly behind the claim that the game is in a finished and ready state for full launch.
Open beta. The game is subject to random and major changes. Lots of systems are not finished, or only partially finished. During the open beta the systems should be filled in and finished. Often that doesn't happen because of a rush to 'release' the game. This game is in that stage between being stable and being ready for launch. Lots and lots of systems need work but the core game is functional and stable. That is a beta.
Some parts true others wrong.
Open beta translates to Mass Public Showing normally but in the case of this game the closed beta weekends were mass public showing. The only reason an Open Beta exists is so reviewers cannot officially review the game, meaning the game can get away with having the majority of it's content unfinished or just not there.
An actual open beta is short and placed a month before release. Games like GW2 have screwed over peoples perception of what a beta is. Beta Weekends are not Closed Betas. A Closed beta has select few participants with an NDA, it does NOT have Beta Key giveaways on sites, it does NOT have friend keys. The moment this game when into It's first Closed beta weekend was the moment it was ready to be released, they finished their in-house/small REAL beta way before their beta weekends (which where actually the open beta).
This is release under the pretense of an Open Beta
The fact some of you haven't gave this game sometime to be out is astounding, it's still soft release no matter which way you look at it, it's obviously a unfinished product and more will come out when it actually comes to release I think you guys look too much into it and call out problems like "It's not OPEN BETA! It's just an excuse" you just look for a reason to name call the game and bring out flaws
What are you getting at? I have a max character, found the last couple of zones to have some issues, but hey that's fine, still finished leveling. Now I'm working on a second character, doing crafting on both of them... so how have I not given the game time.
Do you have information that we don't? At "launch" will there be more leveling to do beyond 60? Will there be additional Paragon Paths? Will we be able to level our white pets beyond level 15? What magic thing is going to happen to kick this from beta to launch?
Why does it matter if I feel this is launch but they wont say it because they want "launch" to be better than the current status of the game? IMO, see, my opinion... this is launch being called beta to have an excuse when something goes wrong. Not necessarily anything wrong with that, but this is just my opinion.
So your firmly behind the claim that the game is in a finished and ready state for full launch.
HELL NO! But it is in better shape than some games I've played at launch. In a perfect world games would be flawless at launch, but this isn't that world and as a gamer, I am used to games launching in the various states that they do.
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terradraconisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
Open beta translates to Mass Public Showing normally but in the case of this game the closed beta weekends were mass public showing. The only reason an Open Beta exists is so reviewers cannot officially review the game, meaning the game can get away with having the majority of it's content unfinished or just not there.
An actual open beta is short and placed a month before release. Games like GW2 have screwed over peoples perception of what a beta is. Beta Weekends are not Closed Betas. A Closed beta has select few participants with an NDA, it does NOT have Beta Key giveaways on sites, it does NOT have friend keys. The moment this game when into It's first Closed beta weekend was the moment it was ready to be released, they finished their in-house/small REAL beta way before their beta weekends (which where actually the open beta).
This is release under the pretense of an Open Beta
You definition is fairly recent ie the last 3 or maybe 4 years of computer programs. Basically marketing took over running open beta's and pushed for them to be just marketing things not actual betas. Cryptic on the other claw has always run betas as true betas and never embraced the marketing model that treats the open beta as a show case to show off their new product. It is instead a working time when the game is well worked on.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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terradraconisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
HELL NO! But it is in better shape than some games I've played at launch. In a perfect world games would be flawless at launch, but this isn't that world and as a gamer, I am used to games launching in the various states that they do.
If thats the case then it isn't ready for launch is it. And if it isn't then what state is it in?
If thats the case then it isn't ready for launch is it. And if it isn't then what state is it in?
You're stubborn and have to be right, so there's no point trying to show you that this game is within industry normal standards for a launch. Cryptic is calling it Open Beta, so be it... IMO this is launch based on experiences with other MMO launches and adding in that having an active cash shop IMO designates this as a released game. Actually, here, I'll meet you in the middle, this is Head Start. That acceptable?
You definition is fairly recent ie the last 3 or maybe 4 years of computer programs. Basically marketing took over running open beta's and pushed for them to be just marketing things not actual betas. Cryptic on the other claw has always run betas as true betas and never embraced the marketing model that treats the open beta as a show case to show off their new product. It is instead a working time when the game is well worked on.
I can't comment on how Cryptic do business, this is the first game of theirs i've played.
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terradraconisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
You're stubborn and have to be right, so there's no point trying to show you that this game is within industry normal standards for a launch. Cryptic is calling it Open Beta, so be it... IMO this is launch based on experiences with other MMO launches and adding in that having an active cash shop IMO designates this as a released game. Actually, here, I'll meet you in the middle, this is Head Start. That acceptable?
but how far back does your experience with game launches go? Mine stretches back past 1990.
its a Beta, these things will be released in due course
except this is the end product... you cant really use " but its beta " when it comes to content, during open beta. Open beta is stress test/marketing ploy. its is purely to get people in early get the servers working with the tagline " but servers may die because its beta" to give devs an excuse for server problems. All in all what we have is what we got...that said i think next month is a planne content expansion has drow, ranger, and warlock but no idea if will be more paths in that expansions THOUGH i'm sure its on there to do list.
I've been playing MMORPGs since Meridian 59 launched. So, been through the whole M59, UO, EQ, WoW, AO, etc launches.
Ah UO, bodies littering the ground as far as the eye can see and lag from hell. That is what I remember.....
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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werealchemistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
My ONLY qualm with this is that when players wanted customization they put in that HAMSTER skill point system instead of the obviously better choice of paragon paths
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terradraconisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
My ONLY qualm with this is that when players wanted customization they put in that HAMSTER skill point system instead of the obviously better choice of paragon paths
It isn't an either or system. The paragon paths are used for controlling power trees and the points let you fine tune other aspects.
I'm confused. On my rogue I could have sworn I had three different paths to choose from?
Yea, I misread the original forum thread title. Perhaps the OP was referring to the calling you get at level 30, which there is only one. For TR's it is Infiltrator and nothing else. There are three trees and you can split points among the three, but it would be nice to have another calling to choose from besides just the one.
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werealchemistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It isn't an either or system. The paragon paths are used for controlling power trees and the points let you fine tune other aspects.
it was a choice they made. They decided that when players asked for more customization they would put in this stupid point buy system (between bw3 & bw4) instead of prioritizing the paragon paths and getting them in. They decided to take the fast way out to make it seem like they were doing something, and they didn't even do it well. There are class features at level 5 for class mechanics you don't get until level 10, feats at level 35 that only effect abilities you don't get until you have spent 50 points. All in all it was poorly done and the time spent popping that out would have been better spent working on paragon paths.
Don't get me wrong i love this game, and i think Cryptic is an amazing company and they are doing an awesome job for the most part, but i think this was the worst thing they have done so far. It was not well planned and lead to a poorly implemented mechanic.
NW is about as complete and bug-free in "open beta" as STO and CO were at launch. Calling a game that has an open cash shop and is being thoroughly marketed a "beta" is a CYA-move and nothing else.
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avarigirlMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited May 2013
my 2 cents- yes they can call it what they want. you can call a lobster a crab, and its still a lobster. closed beta USED to be to find bugs, while open beta USED to be a stress test. Games were supposed to be complete and bug-free at launch. And you used to get 30 free days with a retail purchase. those were the good old days lol. i would rather pay a monthly sub.
As for paragon paths, which is the point of this thread, I just got to 30 and I am disappointed because I don't like the only path that is available for my class right now. So i don't know what to do. If I take it and the one I want comes out later, i will have to respec. It is NOT good marketing to make players have negative feelings about the game, no matter how much money you are able to squeeze out of them later. you dont generate loyalty that way and as soon as the next shiney new f2p comes out, the players will be gone. Oh wait... the next shiney f2p will probably be made by perfect world too.....
I dont care it its beta, release or soft launch as those terms mean nothing anymore nowadays. However i do feel like they should start thinking about adding stuff soon as the diversity atm is close to if not 0.
Sure its beta.. But beta is polishing, not adding entire features and yes i get its an mmorpg, so it will take time to develop. But come on paragon paths is one of the few things that can actually set people apart to roleplay... I dont want to see every single guy with the same class all using the same spells and cookiecutter builds (and dont tell me thats not the case atm cause it really is )
its a Beta, these things will be released in due course
Pretty sure the Lead Producer said they would be officially launched next month. You think there's going to be that much stuff added in a month.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
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calaminthaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
They arn't going to charge for new classes or paragon paths. They've already said so numerous times. They might not give you a free respec so you can try the new Paragon Path out, which is dumb but we'll see.
Are we getting a free respec when they add more paragon paths? I should hope so.
...a company spending millions to provide you with entertainment...
I lol'd.
Maybe development costs for all Cryptics MMOs combined would break the 500/600k mark and that's probably a stretch.
Their *servers and uptime are top notch and their cash shops area well oiled machines so that's where all of their overhead goes. They want people buying zen they don't care what their programmers expel onto our screens.
*point of clarification I mean not lag free or enjoyable to play on, just stable.
Maybe development costs for all Cryptics MMOs combined would break the 500/600k mark and that's probably a stretch.
You're off-the-charts wrong. I've seen their office building. You'd spend most of that just on rent for one year.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
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raedlolMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited June 2013
The game contains a lack of textures and diversity on the gear, since there is no need for them while the game is being tested for bugs. The games real endgame (Gauntlgrym) is still not released. The game only has one paragon path for balancing reasons and to make sure all classes work as planned before releasing more paths and new classes, which we have already been told will be free. I have experienced many many bugs while playing this game, most of which have been fixed or soon will be.
Do you know what all those things suggest? That the game is STILL IN BETA. To treat it as a released game is not fair. The developers admit that it is still full of bugs and issues which need to be fixed, and the players role is to help fix these issues. That's the primary purpose of an open beta, large scale testing.
If you choose to spend money on a game that admits to not being fully developed yet, its YOUR fault. Once the game is released you have the right to complain all you like.
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tanglethornMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
the "sad" thing with Open beta, its that we want to play the game. So we play it, then we find that the content/customization/etc is not really there and we just end up leaving the game and never coming back. I think for PWE, the Launch of Neverwinter Open beta was more like "The game is Raedy to be played, not complete a all, but whatever we need/want to make some cash"
Well said. I felt the exact same way after playing for a little over a week. I think this was a bad move on their part.
Comments
So, all of the other games out there that add new classes or races have actually just been in beta? Seriously, why are you arguing that your statement can also be the definition of an update.
I remember VG launching, now that should of still been a beta. I was max level and running through dungeons with no mobs, fighting mobs that were dropping dungeon loot... The point is that this game is done enough by industry standards for MMOs. Not that I have ever been happy about the terrible standards of "launch" games, but it is what it is, I play the games and deal with it.
So your firmly behind the claim that the game is in a finished and ready state for full launch.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Some parts true others wrong.
Open beta translates to Mass Public Showing normally but in the case of this game the closed beta weekends were mass public showing. The only reason an Open Beta exists is so reviewers cannot officially review the game, meaning the game can get away with having the majority of it's content unfinished or just not there.
An actual open beta is short and placed a month before release. Games like GW2 have screwed over peoples perception of what a beta is. Beta Weekends are not Closed Betas. A Closed beta has select few participants with an NDA, it does NOT have Beta Key giveaways on sites, it does NOT have friend keys. The moment this game when into It's first Closed beta weekend was the moment it was ready to be released, they finished their in-house/small REAL beta way before their beta weekends (which where actually the open beta).
This is release under the pretense of an Open Beta
What are you getting at? I have a max character, found the last couple of zones to have some issues, but hey that's fine, still finished leveling. Now I'm working on a second character, doing crafting on both of them... so how have I not given the game time.
Do you have information that we don't? At "launch" will there be more leveling to do beyond 60? Will there be additional Paragon Paths? Will we be able to level our white pets beyond level 15? What magic thing is going to happen to kick this from beta to launch?
Why does it matter if I feel this is launch but they wont say it because they want "launch" to be better than the current status of the game? IMO, see, my opinion... this is launch being called beta to have an excuse when something goes wrong. Not necessarily anything wrong with that, but this is just my opinion.
HELL NO! But it is in better shape than some games I've played at launch. In a perfect world games would be flawless at launch, but this isn't that world and as a gamer, I am used to games launching in the various states that they do.
You definition is fairly recent ie the last 3 or maybe 4 years of computer programs. Basically marketing took over running open beta's and pushed for them to be just marketing things not actual betas. Cryptic on the other claw has always run betas as true betas and never embraced the marketing model that treats the open beta as a show case to show off their new product. It is instead a working time when the game is well worked on.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If thats the case then it isn't ready for launch is it. And if it isn't then what state is it in?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You're stubborn and have to be right, so there's no point trying to show you that this game is within industry normal standards for a launch. Cryptic is calling it Open Beta, so be it... IMO this is launch based on experiences with other MMO launches and adding in that having an active cash shop IMO designates this as a released game. Actually, here, I'll meet you in the middle, this is Head Start. That acceptable?
I can't comment on how Cryptic do business, this is the first game of theirs i've played.
but how far back does your experience with game launches go? Mine stretches back past 1990.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
except this is the end product... you cant really use " but its beta " when it comes to content, during open beta. Open beta is stress test/marketing ploy. its is purely to get people in early get the servers working with the tagline " but servers may die because its beta" to give devs an excuse for server problems. All in all what we have is what we got...that said i think next month is a planne content expansion has drow, ranger, and warlock but no idea if will be more paths in that expansions THOUGH i'm sure its on there to do list.
I've been playing MMORPGs since Meridian 59 launched. So, been through the whole M59, UO, EQ, WoW, AO, etc launches.
Ah UO, bodies littering the ground as far as the eye can see and lag from hell. That is what I remember.....
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It isn't an either or system. The paragon paths are used for controlling power trees and the points let you fine tune other aspects.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Does this mean I qualify as knowing about launches now?
Yea, I misread the original forum thread title. Perhaps the OP was referring to the calling you get at level 30, which there is only one. For TR's it is Infiltrator and nothing else. There are three trees and you can split points among the three, but it would be nice to have another calling to choose from besides just the one.
it was a choice they made. They decided that when players asked for more customization they would put in this stupid point buy system (between bw3 & bw4) instead of prioritizing the paragon paths and getting them in. They decided to take the fast way out to make it seem like they were doing something, and they didn't even do it well. There are class features at level 5 for class mechanics you don't get until level 10, feats at level 35 that only effect abilities you don't get until you have spent 50 points. All in all it was poorly done and the time spent popping that out would have been better spent working on paragon paths.
Don't get me wrong i love this game, and i think Cryptic is an amazing company and they are doing an awesome job for the most part, but i think this was the worst thing they have done so far. It was not well planned and lead to a poorly implemented mechanic.
As for paragon paths, which is the point of this thread, I just got to 30 and I am disappointed because I don't like the only path that is available for my class right now. So i don't know what to do. If I take it and the one I want comes out later, i will have to respec. It is NOT good marketing to make players have negative feelings about the game, no matter how much money you are able to squeeze out of them later. you dont generate loyalty that way and as soon as the next shiney new f2p comes out, the players will be gone. Oh wait... the next shiney f2p will probably be made by perfect world too.....
I sit on my feat points before I spend them. I went 15 levels without spending one feat.
I wanted to read up a bit on the class but was having to much fun smashing face to really care.
Paths will come....this is not nor ever will be, a finished product. Content update invalidates the term finished...
Yes you do.
Sure its beta.. But beta is polishing, not adding entire features
Elf Control Wizard - Dragon
Pretty sure the Lead Producer said they would be officially launched next month. You think there's going to be that much stuff added in a month.
Are we getting a free respec when they add more paragon paths? I should hope so.
I lol'd.
Maybe development costs for all Cryptics MMOs combined would break the 500/600k mark and that's probably a stretch.
Their *servers and uptime are top notch and their cash shops area well oiled machines so that's where all of their overhead goes. They want people buying zen they don't care what their programmers expel onto our screens.
*point of clarification I mean not lag free or enjoyable to play on, just stable.
You're off-the-charts wrong. I've seen their office building. You'd spend most of that just on rent for one year.
Do you know what all those things suggest? That the game is STILL IN BETA. To treat it as a released game is not fair. The developers admit that it is still full of bugs and issues which need to be fixed, and the players role is to help fix these issues. That's the primary purpose of an open beta, large scale testing.
If you choose to spend money on a game that admits to not being fully developed yet, its YOUR fault. Once the game is released you have the right to complain all you like.
Well said. I felt the exact same way after playing for a little over a week. I think this was a bad move on their part.