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A Word About The Meta Game and Limited Respec.
clockwerkninja
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
A ton of players are angry about the fact the respec's are so limited in this game. At the same time others are happy about it. Let's not let that come between us where we could be having conversations that improve other people views of our opinions.
I would like to talk about the META GAME. That big looming "zeitgeist" that is making everyone angry over respecs. It is my opinion that the meta game for Neverwinter includes the fact that respecs are limited and players may want to function in more than one capacity.
Sure, this leaves open the possible players who has a pvp only character or pve only toon excelling over a dual set up.
That is fine tho. in my opinion it is more than fine,it is perfect.
Choices that have to be made, and lived with are what DnD games thrive on.Even a mmo version should include this aspect. It is not something to be angry about,or cry fowl that players are being deprived of something that is a gaming "standard".
It is not the standard, it is a relatively new crutch that many long time gamers do not like.
You do not have to fear limited respec's because it is what the meta game will be built on. I am sure most players fear some rich *** hole with to much money will be able to respec all day every day. I will also find that annoying,and would be in favor of simple limiting it with a time limit and quest line or something..
The important point is that it is limited, and if you want to play Neverwinter you will need to include that in your meta game thinking rather than revolt against it. That is if you want to succeed.
I would like to talk about the META GAME. That big looming "zeitgeist" that is making everyone angry over respecs. It is my opinion that the meta game for Neverwinter includes the fact that respecs are limited and players may want to function in more than one capacity.
Sure, this leaves open the possible players who has a pvp only character or pve only toon excelling over a dual set up.
That is fine tho. in my opinion it is more than fine,it is perfect.
Choices that have to be made, and lived with are what DnD games thrive on.Even a mmo version should include this aspect. It is not something to be angry about,or cry fowl that players are being deprived of something that is a gaming "standard".
It is not the standard, it is a relatively new crutch that many long time gamers do not like.
You do not have to fear limited respec's because it is what the meta game will be built on. I am sure most players fear some rich *** hole with to much money will be able to respec all day every day. I will also find that annoying,and would be in favor of simple limiting it with a time limit and quest line or something..
The important point is that it is limited, and if you want to play Neverwinter you will need to include that in your meta game thinking rather than revolt against it. That is if you want to succeed.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
Post edited by clockwerkninja on
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Ok, but without making money from things that players will want to buy how would you fund the game? I think what is given for free in this game is plenty to play with. Extra bag space, extra respec, extra character,extra extra extra..Seems legit to me honestly..
My wife is functioning fine with no cash shop items, and I have all but insisted on buying her some stuff...She simply does not feel like she needs it.
I honestly did not want to debate the merit of the respec situation tho, we have threads for that going...I wanted to talk about what the meta game will be like when forced to live with choices made.
Edit to add: Other than story and locations ,nothing to do with DnD? Well that's perfect because other than story and locations DnD has nothing to do with DnD either..
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
I adore having to make choices and living with them. That's something I don't bend on in D&D.
And it's something I feel should be very important in Neverwinter's Gameplay.
Not be contrary, but trying to quantify a meta game in Neverwinter is rather pointless, as its so shallow and non existent in terms of potential.
PVE meta is equal to rolling your face across the keyboard, 99.9% of all fights are easy enough to win with minimal though. The hardest areas of the game, The Foundry, because player created content has the potential to be challenging. i have died a grand total of 3 times in 46 levels, once due to Mad dragon pickup group, with 3 level 30s, and 2 level 32s, and the only reason we lost was because people could not grasp the two simple concepts of staying away from the red spots on the ground, and kill adds first. One time was at the Dragon skirmish at 39-40, and was a cheese death because the dragon can blow you over terrain off the cliff at a 90 degree angle to the ground. Third was me being bored and pulling something like 35 mobs to see if i could kill them all.
While i enjoy the game, trying to attribute some kind of Meta game or grand strategy to a simplistic theme park D&D RPG game seems a bit of an overestimation of its potential.
It's a free to play game yes, but with out the ability to make money it will be "Hey remember that game that was awesome but shut down"
Putting a time limit on it would help show that they aren't all about the money. I used to play another game with a cash shop that put a limit on respecs as well and the player base actually appreciated that fact. (Save a few who wanted to respec all the time)
So I think to save face with a lot of the player base having a Time Limit on something like a respec would be great. Also , why not include some sort of epic quest line involving multiple dungeons or something that ends with the reward of a respec token.
This would help make respecs accessible to people that don't have the extra cash to drop on it. It would also, in turn, help generate more respec sales imo.
Let people get a free one to try something out, they will further understand their class/the game and will inevitably want to tweak their character a bit more.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
twitch.tv/redeclipze
Someone has to pay real money for that ZEN. Even if you farm AD and sell it to another player for ZEN, someone paid RL money for that ZEN already. So yes, respecs are a revenue stream for Cryptic/PWE.
But that isn't what this thread is about. This thread is about how it will affect the metagame.
I think that because experimentation has a real money price tag attached to it, people will be less scientific in researching which abilities do and don't trigger procs, establishing concrete statistical proc rates, performing side-by-side DPS/HPS comparisons which isolate variables like crit vs. recovery, and the many sorts of research you see in mmo games where respecs aren't monetized.
Sure, there will be some of this sort of methodical min-maxing and experimentation, but not as much as I'm used to seeing in other mmos.
Instead, I expect to see more arguments based on speculation, side-by-side comparisons with too many variables to be valid, and conventional wisdom that often will be grounded in false assumptions which go unchallenged for long periods of time. I also foresee more metagame disputes between players with conflicting hypotheses which are never resolved to my satisfaction and the benefit of the community.
I also think there will be more cookie-cutter building and less outside-the-box thinking. But that's as much a product of the limited skillsets as the costs of respecialization.
besies, the notion that oh you can farm ad and eventually get there - thats just nonsense, dont even imagine that nonsense - youll need SOOOO LOOOONG to get that ad by ingame content its not even funny - on lvl 30 feats respec costs 50'000 AD - and thats just the feats...you can get maybe -if you do quests, crafting, praying - 10'000 AD a day - and than youre mostly doing the ad farming - at least on my level - that means you need at least a week just farming for that respec...if you add the the respec token that you have to buy for the powers youll easily play several weeks for that respec DAILY.
Respec Tokens basically take your character and reset every option you applied after level 1.
Feats are reset with a respec token as well.
Sure potentially there will be plenty of PvP content where someone could focus on only PvP and not worry about needing to do PvE to fully gear their character but as of right now there isn't.
If you look close, you will see that their are no factions or world pvp in this game. Pvp here is just a mini game, not to be taken seriously.
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
If you look even closer, you will see that there are factions and faction-based (though not open-world) pvp in the game.
The idea that this game needs to follow certain ideologies from D&D while having no relation to it beyond a storyline shouldn't be taken seriously either.
I doubt they'll change respecs costing zen since that's a great way to make money but this argument that it needs to follow something in line with D&D after having played it is just hilarious. And I'm sure people that enjoy pvp agree with you, not that I even want to try it because surprise, another mmo with a stealth class.
You're disregarding typos in the descriptions, skills that aren't as good as they seem on paper, vague descriptions, things that are nerfed to a point where they're no longer desirable to have in your build, things that are changed to a point where they're no longer desirable to have in your build, abilities that are changed into different categories of abilities and everything else that would cause someone to want to respec that is not entirely their fault.
I think if they do major changes to a class they should at least give it a respec. I've played games like city of heroes where respecs are a hard mission, buy a recipe from the game $ store or people sell it at ingame auction.
Then i have no idea why i never had to respec and i still have everything what i wanted to and it works how it should.
Good logic bro'
It's an MMO, they can and they will make changes to something you use eventually, and you may not like having whatever it is they changed on your character anymore.
Heck, in CO they've been regularly reworking powersets and forcing anyone who has one of the afflicted sets to respec. (Usually this works out fine for everyone)