The power and feats trees are poorly done.

mrfoxx

Lets just glaze over the fact that paragon tree are unfinished, we know this because of the banner stating "More to come soon" I wonder how much the respec will cost.

the feats in the paragon tree dont even make sense, i just unlocked my 6 point paragon feat skills, i have a choice between:

Unrestrained chaos:
chance to add chill or arcane mastery while using maelstrom of chaos 1/2/3/4/5 seconds

or

Nightmare wizardry:
Chance to add combat mastery when you crit.

So im looking around, where is maelstrom of chaos, i dont have this skill... wait, its a level 50 skill. why is the levle 35 feat giving me a buff for a level 50 skill. what the hell kind of design is this?

Lets move on to the powers. Why am i forced to spend points on anything? Why do i need to invest 10 points to unlock the next teir, 5 points for the next after that? so on and so forth, the game only allows you to use 7 skills, 9 if your a control wizard. I dont need to invest in a bunch of skills im never going to use, why are yu designing a skill tree around forcing players into spending points when you dont have too, or even want to.

I understand the powers and feats were changed haphazardly last beta weekend, but come on, im sure you have people educated enough to figure out how to design a fun and rewarding leveling system.

Unless this is some intentional design flaws to get me to spend money on respecs and astral diamonds retraining, then for that i say bravo, you've found one more nickle and dime path to stick into the game on top of the many others.

Ive already purchased founders, do you really have to go out of your way to get more money out of me at every turn, you realize i plan on spending money already right?

elyrielle

Some people like having options they can swap between. I'd venture to say most good players would be rearranging their powers depending on encounters (boss vs trash) as a control wizard with how our abilities work.

So yea, you might actually want to have more powers than just the ones you slot at any given time, so you can adapt.

As far as reaching feats that modify powers you don't have access to yet, that's annoying at first but irrelevant by level cap.

mrfoxx

elyrielle wrote: »

Some people like having options they can swap between. I'd venture to say most good players would be rearranging their powers depending on encounters (boss vs trash) as a control wizard with how our abilities work.

So yea, you might actually want to have more powers than just the ones you slot at any given time, so you can adapt.

As far as reaching feats that modify powers you don't have access to yet, that's annoying at first but irrelevant by level cap.

Whats with players like you, who defend bad design without thinking?

The whole point of teired talent unlocks is so you can boost skills youre currently using while youre using them, so you can define your role.

What benefit does it serve for me to boost a level 50 skill at level 35? How can you even defend that.

And as for swaping skils around, another feature for end game, it doesnt change the fact that you dont need to the first 20 levels, and when you do start to you wont be using the skills you were forced to max out to get to those levels, so either way IM WASTING MY POINTS.

Also, every boss so far has been a combination of boss and trash, so there is no situation where you need a 100% boss build (single target skills, all damage no crowd control) Beause every boss fight up until this level has been boss + hoarde of trash mobs. So your suggestion of needing to switch builds to be a better player is irrelevant. Because it doesnt apply anywhere.

Its bad design

elyrielle

You're obviously very upset about this, and I'm sorry to hear it bothers you so much. I've found all through my levelling I'm constantly switching around powers so my experience is completely different from your own - hence my lack of a problem with the system.

judgebankslol

See most cleric abilities.

qwal1

Well the powers tree is the worst i have seen, seems 100% meaningless. u can almost max every skill anyway, so why even have us put points in them? we will have pretty much all maxed or 12 skills maxed we want to use and the others +1 or +2 on. NO sence what so ever in this.

Make More skills or less skillpoints, not 1 per lvl and remove the XX skillpoints for next tier.

Also remove the req of reaching lvl 30 or whatever to unlock lvl 3 in each skill, common wtf? have u ever seen a game that have done this before? well no, not with a talent system.


INtroduce more powers now or recamp the system, cus it's broken flawed and not even close to completion, Yes this is beta bla bla, but it's not beta, you are charing ppl for to buy stuff ingame in a BETA, not Released version!

THis is the launch of the game, in a month or whatever they will put release on the game and nothing will change and keep going as it has during the "beta.

//rant, sorry for it, but this is frustrating that they have not thought this through at all.

eronnn

Agree with op totally, very shoddy and questionable talent design, Like what the OP said but also pretty much every power upgrade just being 10% more dmg, wow... and then theres the respec cost..... joke

Also the information for skills / tooltips are incredibly vague, it's almost like they do that on purpose to make you want to respec even more, $$$.

judgebankslol

eronnn wrote: »

Agree with op totally, very shoddy and questionable talent design, and then theres the respec cost..... joke

I like the part where the tutorial explains the mechanics of the game, such as feats and paragon feats.

someoneod

I love the game, but I do feel if they charge for respecs after adding new paragon trees it will be shooting themselves in the foot. We'll see.

elyrielle

someoneod wrote: »

I love the game, but I do feel if they charge for respecs after adding new paragon trees it will be shooting themselves in the foot. We'll see.

Yea will be interesting to see. I have a feeling they're working more on new classes/races than existing ones first though.

mrfoxx

elyrielle wrote: »

You're obviously very upset about this, and I'm sorry to hear it bothers you so much. I've found all through my levelling I'm constantly switching around powers so my experience is completely different from your own - hence my lack of a problem with the system.

I dont know why it doesnt upset you more, being a founder and all. You payed right, you'd think at the very least you expect quality in the product so far, even if it is unfinished. Class design IS VERY IMPORTANT.

Im not talking about something small like clipping in the graphics, this is my character, and his powers and feats dont make sense, THAT IS A BIG DEAL worthy of being upset about.

How are you so complacent?

I walk around protectors enclave and all i read are shout saying the Great weapon fighter is terrible, ive posted and had replies where people tell me to drop GWF from my groups so that they dont slow down the dps, they arent worth playing until levle 60, my friend complains about his cleric and its lack of synergy, there is another response in this thread about the cleric and its abilities. The stat of the classes right now, are not ok.

You think world of warcrafts talent system would work if for the first 15 levels you couldnt use any of the bonuses you were putting points into until you hit level 55?

Why are you ok with that?

elyrielle

mrfoxx wrote: »

I dont know why it doesnt upset you more, being a founder and all. You payed right, you'd think at the very least you expect quality in the product so far, even if it is unfinished. Class design IS VERY IMPORTANT.

Im not talking about something small like clipping in the graphics, this is my character, and his powers and feats dont make sense, THAT IS A BIG DEAL worthy of being upset about.

How are you so complacent?

I walk around protectors enclave and all i read are shout saying the Great weapon fighter is terrible, ive posted and had replies where people tell me to drop GWF from my groups so that they dont slow down the dps, they arent worth playing until levle 60, my friend complains about his cleric and its lack of synergy, there is another response in this thread about the cleric and its abilities. The stat of the classes right now, are not ok.

You think world of warcrafts talent system would work if for the first 15 levels you couldnt use any of the bonuses you were putting points into until you hit level 55?

Why are you ok with that?

Hyperbole really doesn't help your argument - the game is not broken nor are ANY of the classes (including GWF actually) unplayable.

The very very simple reason I'm content is that I'm enjoying the game, tremendously even. I look forward to logging in every night when I'm done work and play until I pass out. Are there some bugs and issues? Sure. Do they break the game or cause me undue stress (as it appears to be causing you)? Absolutely not.

I guess I'm different from the average poster on these forums in that I don't come here to complain about the game, but rather to help people with issues and understand things (yes some of which could be made clearer by the company but currently aren't). If you want to call that blindly defending, fanboyism or white knighting, so be it. I can handle those titles :P

mconosrep

elyrielle wrote: »

nor are ANY of the classes (including GWF actually) unplayable.

Unplayable no - GWF can still (slowly) kill mobs. The thing is why should it be so tedious on a GWF compared to even a GF or DC, let alone a CW or TR?

elyrielle

mconosrep wrote: »

Unplayable no - GWF can still (slowly) kill mobs. The thing is why should it be so tedious on a GWF compared to even a GF or DC, let alone a CW or TR?

I agree lower level needs work, from what people describe of their difficulties with it. But most posts I see from the higher tier players say that it stops being so difficult in the 40s or so and becomes a monster from there on.

lyfebane

GWF being bad are mainly through poeple not understandings powers or feats, for instance smash is an amazing skill, but reading the description you would not pick it. Alot go for the skills that have big numbers, but they might also have large CDs. Most classes can have builds that work well. I find it hard to understand exactly what alot of powers do, possibly showing dps aswell as damage done might be a better way to understand them and better descriptions and what they work well with such as how long the CD is, how long the last, whether they do waves/tick damage or just one Direct damage and such like.
Now admittedly I do not think every paragon feat path works. I also believe that power buying need some tweaking to be easier to make a build, and certain feats should be looked at alot, though not all.

this is the now the best source of info for these, hopefully it will be sticked and expanded over time.

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?182621-Master-List-of-Class-Builds