This is all interesting information. I thought I was crazy because I took Hallowed Ground and it seemed to really help my parties out when I've used it. >.>
I am curious, though...I am having such a difficult time targeting the right person when I'm channeling divinity and trying to use Soothing Light. People seem to randomly get low (I'm guessing from standing in red areas...) and need to (in my opinion) be healed back up more than Sun Burst and debuffing the mob they're hitting can do. Yet it's really tough to target them when they're moving around. Is there something I'm missing? A trick that I could be using to make this easier?
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dixa1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
doing that grey wolf den at 41. me the cleric, 3 rogues and a cw. all is fine until the last boss.
5 wipes. the cleric and cw are useless. finally the rogues just solo'd him from 80% using some decoy and stealth powers to keep adds off them.
starting to feel like star trek online again. just need tac captains, sci and eng need not apply
I'm undecided about this power. As a DPS power, it's okay. There are other options which do well. I don't see this as a "must have" for a cleric; it's personal preference.
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lanessar13Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 8Arc User
doing that grey wolf den at 41. me the cleric, 3 rogues and a cw. all is fine until the last boss.
5 wipes. the cleric and cw are useless. finally the rogues just solo'd him from 80% using some decoy and stealth powers to keep adds off them.
starting to feel like star trek online again. just need tac captains, sci and eng need not apply
You need to include more details from this fight to say what's wrong. Looks like the CW didn't know how to play his class well. We finished this fight in under 2 minutes with a full party. It was much easier than the Lair of the Mad Dragon.
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graylark2Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
There are so many misleading information in this build. Let me go from the top to bottom:
First of all, it's about stats:
- Any 1 Wis beyond 10 will give you 1% additional damage/healing and other effects
- Any 1 Str beyond 10 will give you 1% additional critical chance. Critical hit/heal has +75% effect
Do you see the difference here? You have a 5% base critical chance, 20 Str will give you +10% critical chance and it will grow much more the more you put into Str and gear for critical strike. At one point 1 every 3 encounters (more like 1 every 2) will be a crit. For some AOE encounters, for all instance, there will be at least one target receiving a critical hit (damage/heal).
Because of Wis being the primary attribute of Cleric, it's almost impossible to roll it below 16. So maxing out Str will hurt Cha quite a bit. You will lose out about 4-5% recharge speed, which I think is acceptable. The point here is saying Wis>Cha>Str is not quite correct. It depends on each person's choice.
Secondly, it's about power:
- Punishing Light is one of the most reliable offensive spell of Devoted Cleric. Just so everyone knows, whether to use it or not is up to you.
- Searing Light is overly underestimated. The trick to use this spell is to aim at the farthest target (so that you don't sky-wards shoot it) and use with Divinity Power. For every target that this spell goes through, there will be a small AOE that damages surrounding enemies. So if this encounter, in divinity mode, goes through multiple targets, each of those target will creates a small AOE that can overlap one another, thus damaging the whole group multiple times.
- Daunting Light is the strongest encounter damage wise, and should be used with Divinity. Just so everyone don't get a different idea about it.
- Bastion of Health is inferior compared to Sunburst. The only good thing about it is that it's a pure healing skill. However you can cast 2 Sunburst in the same period of time for 1 BoH. This skill should never be specced into, unless you want to use the buff Feat related to it.
- Hallowed Ground is ultra powerful once you max the Feat that grants it the power to heal allies standing inside it 5% of their max HP every 3 seconds.
- Class powers are not always on. Only the selected 2 are always active. You can choose which one to be active by drag and drop it on the 2 tiny slots on the left-hand side of the 3 encounter power slots. Don't mistake them as passives that will all be active all the time.
Feat:
- In tier 2, if anyone decides to go for a critical build, the one on the Righteous path that gives 3% critical chance is much more useful than 5% recovery. Remember it's a 3 points vs 5 points investment. The 3 one gives a direct 3% chance to critical strike. The 5 one gives you an extra of 5% of your recovery points, not 5% recharge speed. At high level, a cleric probably has around 1k+ recovery, this makes it give +50 recovery. Think if it worths 5 points.
- The first feat at the righteous path that gives 9% Health is very powerful. A cleric is often the target of minions. Keeping yourself relatively tanky is necessary.
- Not maxing out Hallowed Ground is insane. You have to max this. There is basically no reason to ever use another daily, except for Divine Armor in truly "oh sh-t" situations.
- Get Daunting Light. There are a number of things you can give up to get it, none of which are important. This is by far our best damage spell and even in epic dungeons there is often a need to slot it.
- Divine Glow. This is one of our best abilities, yes, even for a healing cleric. You are going to want an ability to deal with clusters of adds, and this is it. On top of that, the defense debuff is very powerful. Using this on bosses or clusters of strong mobs can make a big difference. It's one of the few abilities you don't need to cast with Divinity for it to be useful. I almost always slot Divine Glow and have used it to great effect on all the tier 1 and 2 epic boss fights.
Not sure if there is other stuff I'd take issue with but these are pretty important.
I sort of disagree with your assessment of Hallowed Ground as a full heals-based cleric. Not using this at any level is a terrible idea.
The base mitigation it provides indirectly heals. And it "heals" for quite a bit. Additionally, with Moontouched, this ability heals for 5% of max HP every 3 seconds for as long as HG lasts. That's actually one of the most significant healing powers in the game when you consider it runs at 9 seconds, and covers an extremely large area (can cover most of a boss battle area). If you have AP gain feats and a high WIS, you can actually fire this daily off again before it fades.
As a **** cleric, I would love to see you guys link your builds, please. It would be great to see a guide for allocating points with Hallowed Ground in.
I have to totally disagree with this build. There are some very good points as well great description and information about stats. All I can say is you are in your right to build this style but I would HIGHLY be against it for others. Or at least change it around. Doing Epic dungeons and groups that would be pissed if I used this combo. I'm not going to Repeat some one else but for the love Of god please read sgceo post on page 2!.
Also Hollow ground but don't take it from me other clerics are saying it as well...
So to say again, This is not a great end game build. Maybe for more Dps or dmg, But most Clerics run these skills, (Don't have to follow but I highly suggest you think very hard on your build)
Astral Shield- MUST HAVE!, use in divine and put it down. Really after you get it you'll well see what we are talking about. From all it dose its your op move on the class. Unless your squishy as a Wiz and standing in a circle (Even then) MAYBE It wont work for you. ((Take note get the feat for it in the same path as it helps alot to make it even more op}}
Daunting Light- Must have one of your hardest hit moves. Use in Divine, (Possible with even low Power get 11k crti easy) Great solo and group move.
Sun burst- Aoe/heal move, A great Oh HAMSTER button and heal the hole group with out using Astral Shield.
Hallowed Ground- Get this move, Max it, Get feats if going in that tree, and don't take it off your daily bar. It heals, buffs, and the Aoe is HUGE so can't miss most of the time.
Flame Strike - A great aoe and stoping move. If you get them in the circle it well Raise the enemy up (If not boss) and drop them down for even more dmg. Its a great adds kill move. Did I tell you great Aoe range and huge dmg?
-As you can guess this is a great combo to run and maybe on bosses change daunting light or Sun burst for more heal from word if want. But tell the truth Astral shield and hollow ground is enough lol-
May be asking Why I didn't use Forgemaster’s Flame or Bastion of Health or Divine Armor
Its pretty easy at end game they become out dated. The heal/Dmg isn't worth it and the Aoe is nothing compared to the other ones. Your role I lean is to keep party alive and deal with mobs on your butt because there well always be adds that appear and first treat that happens is your heal. Learn quickly to move and Remember your party has healing pets, pots, and many other things. Your there to just help negate most of this dmg coming in through heals and buffs. No more Spike healing and no more need to over heal them to make sure they don't die suddenly. They should be moving around also out of the circles. Only idiots or Guardians stay in circles XD
(((Sorry for any spelling -_- very hot topic)))
A million gazillion bajillion times this! And also the previous post to this. Bastion is HAMSTER. Forge is only useful when everyone is around one boss, which if your party is any good... Only 2, max 3 people are at the boss at one time most of the time!
Your job is to provide ticking healing (divinity shield, astral seal) and buffs and then ... and this is a huge huge huge one... DEAL WITH ADS!
You cannot keep pace with ad damage on your party if you are not killing ads or helping them kill ads. A smart party is dealing with boss and ads and moving around a lot. YOU should also be moving around a lot, changing where you place buffs, debuffs, healing areas. Flame Strike is uber for a mass of 1+ elite and some ads around. Daunting Light even not in divinity can one-shot archer/mage ads that are not elites. And those types of non-elite ads can pepper you and the party with so much damage that if they focus on someone and are 6+, that someone will die. You are a LEADER class. You know what that means? You have to judiciously keep up with the battlefield, realize when a Flame Strike is better than a Hallowed ground, where to place the divinity shield for best usage, when to place Astral Seal and where, which ads to focus on first, etc. Cleric is 100% not just simply a healer class.
I love it. It is a heavenly at 50+ leveling, heavenly at doing daily foundry. Sometimes I slot it in for smaller bosses and slot it out at the bigger bosses... but most of the time don't use in 5man dungeons.
This is all interesting information. I thought I was crazy because I took Hallowed Ground and it seemed to really help my parties out when I've used it. >.>
I am curious, though...I am having such a difficult time targeting the right person when I'm channeling divinity and trying to use Soothing Light. People seem to randomly get low (I'm guessing from standing in red areas...) and need to (in my opinion) be healed back up more than Sun Burst and debuffing the mob they're hitting can do. Yet it's really tough to target them when they're moving around. Is there something I'm missing? A trick that I could be using to make this easier?
STOP. For heaven's sakes please stop channeling divinity to heal someone. That is such utter waste of divinity! If they stand in red circles, they have to pot. You cannot heal red circle damage, you don't have the tools for that. Stop trying to chase people.
You do not say what level you are. If you do not yet have Shield, use Sun Burst (not in divinity unless you are mobbed) and Astral Seal the heck out of everything (AFTER GF, if you have one, has grabbed boss, please). You can use Forge in divinity when you see 2+ people on boss or an elite. You can have healing word as well, use in divinity when you are sure the target is away from everyone else. But I repeat... you cannot heal red circle damage. Get that out of your head and stop ignoring your duties of debuffing, buffing, healing over time, killing ads to chase around and heal the derpyderp who sat in red circles. They have to pot. If you sit in red circles, YOU have to pot.
If you have shield, cast it in divinity in a convenient area either next to boss or next to where people are killing ads (keep switching between these locations). When people sit or fight in that area they get plenty of healing. Not enough to save them from inability to evade red circles, but enough for everything else.
doing that grey wolf den at 41. me the cleric, 3 rogues and a cw. all is fine until the last boss.
5 wipes. the cleric and cw are useless. finally the rogues just solo'd him from 80% using some decoy and stealth powers to keep adds off them.
starting to feel like star trek online again. just need tac captains, sci and eng need not apply
You're doing it wrong.
They're doing it wrong.
You should have loaded DPS abilities, killed ads and controlled ads with the wizard and evaded your little tush off... You could have chosen to tank the boss while 1 rogue stayed with you and the 2 rogues + wizard kill ads... You could have had 2 rogues on boss and 1 rogue/1 wizard/1 cleric dealing with ads.
But sounds to me you all kind of ignored the ads and tried to bumrush the boss.
A cleric is a great addition to any party if they get it into their heads that killing stuff, namely ads, is also part of your job description. Keeping yourself alive and depending on passives to heal is also an important skill (depending on seal, crits generating heals, hallowed ground with feat or divinity shield to heal etc).
A cleric is a great addition to any party if they get it into their heads that killing stuff, namely ads, is also part of your job description. Keeping yourself alive and depending on passives to heal is also an important skill (depending on seal, crits generating heals, hallowed ground with feat or divinity shield to heal etc).
This is the conclusion I've reached as well, through the mid-40's. Clerics here are not cloth casters standing in back watching green bars. You're an offtank and a DPS, and you should be helping kill things attacking you. This is particularly true for archers, which the GWF/ CW may not be able to gather up and AoE down. I always run with my orbital laser strike slotted now
Yes, you're a healer, and you need to be healing. But if that's all you're doing, completing the dungeon will likely be more difficult.
- Snit (Cleric, Dragon Server)
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jgfuMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 19Arc User
edited May 2013
As stated above and every where else The information is out there. You can find link builds --> here <-- but remember don't just straight copy them make your own.
Only skills I know is a must is A Shield the other two are up to you and how you want to play. I seriously think Flame in Divinity is trash and doesn't heal compare to others. With DL and Sun brust I can wipe mobs pretty well. People also in 5 man dungeons are starting to understand that adds needs to be thin out or killed. Wiz are pretty good at this as they suck them in the boss and we just drop aoes lol. Hopfully you find your self a good party but most times wont. Make sure its not your fault first! Clerics can only dos so much for people who want to be idiots and stand in red circles.
You are a LEADER class. You know what that means? You have to judiciously keep up with the battlefield, realize when a Flame Strike is better than a Hallowed ground, where to place the divinity shield for best usage, when to place Astral Seal and where, which ads to focus on first, etc. Cleric is 100% not just simply a healer class.
And once I understood this and what was actually required of ME in a dungeon, things have been a lot easier to deal with. I tossed out the idea in my head that I had to just stand back and throw heals in, that I was required to get into the mix. That I had to think and plan how to deal with the adds and that just how important dailies are to use at the right time and not just spam buttons. The cleric is a class you have to really work at to play well, but it is highly rewarding at the same time.
I'd like to point out that 'Leader/controller' is a D&D 4th edition role for clerics. I believe they cooked up 'Leader' and hoped it wouldn't sound too much like 'Healer' even though they mean pretty much the same thing. That's why it says that on the wiki page.
I'd like to point out that 'Leader/controller' is a D&D 4th edition role for clerics. I believe they cooked up 'Leader' and hoped it wouldn't sound too much like 'Healer' even though they mean pretty much the same thing. That's why it says that on the wiki page.
Good effort on the guide itself.
That is probably very true :P, but in Neverwinter the leader/controller aspect is very true to successful cleric-ing lol.
We just do not have the tools to just sit in the back healing and nothing else. But we have the tools to manage the flow of battle.
---
What someone said earlier... I am always so happy when I see a wizard in party, they usually are on those ads like no tomorrow. GWF have aoes but half of them are ra ra ra arses who just keep glued to boss and see nothing else. And rogues... well, usually the rogues I've met to peel off the boss and tackle ads, but I've been in 3 rogue parties where nobody was dealing with ads. I told them if I die one more time, I'm staying dead and letting them keep ad aggro. No loot is worth me wasting scrolls of life because of stupidity in party.
The tank cleric build and the crit healer build are very nice threads as well for anyone wanting info. Sadly... we don't have a cleric forum
"Class Powers
These powers give you constant bonuses like a buff that
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accident4proneMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Awesome thread, lvl 35 cleric here but great info. Good point about the cleanse only needing to be 10%. i didn't even think about how many times people are attacking. i mean a Rogue must cleanse himself 20 times per attack heh.
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drake5252Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited May 2013
Thank you for the compliments, and for suggestions from others. Yes, I know some things will need to be changed, the intention of the first draft of this being published here was to at least TRY to help some folks understand the Cleric and the powers within. Yes tweaks need to be made along with other changes, and I will be making them.
-Drake
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korsterMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
So far in my build I like Daunting Light and I try to use it exclusively in Divine mode. It is a bit of a pain in regular mode because the aoe target is so small, especially when you have mobs that constantly move around and out of the area once you get it down. In Divinity mode it makes for some nice damage.
I agree about only putting one point in the Cleanse feat. I did that as well and you see it proc all the time. I use Hallowed Ground mostly in group situations, and keep Flame Strike for soloing. Though I wish I knew what Hallowed Ground actually does since the tooltip gives no indication.
Also, brand of the sun I believe its called (the DoT at-wil skill we possess as Clerics), is that not a decent move to assist with dps. I find at lvl 50-54 I use that as my left click (DoT up each mob at start of fight) and astral seal as my right click, my damage dealt is quite substantial by the end of the dungeon. I find my other healing spells able to keep party up.
Will I definitely need to change daunting light around for Sacred Flame once I hit epic dungeons?
Hmm - I still see the pictures with no problem. Anyone else having this problem?
-Drake
Yep, no pictures here for me.
Great thread, btw. Regardless (or perhaps because) of the criticism, the information in this thread has been exceptionally helpful. Big kudos go to drake5252 for being the one willing to do the baseline work of posting a guide in the first place, providing an opportunity for the kibitzers to chirp up. Much appreciated.
"Men do not stop playing because they grow old. They grow old because they stop playing." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
honoraryorangeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
You list that you have most of the Class Powers at level 3, but you don't tell us which ones you use and when. You can only have 2 active at a time, so which do you mainly use?
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nmilfordMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited May 2013
Great and useful information! Thanks for you time. Very well thought out!
Comments
I am curious, though...I am having such a difficult time targeting the right person when I'm channeling divinity and trying to use Soothing Light. People seem to randomly get low (I'm guessing from standing in red areas...) and need to (in my opinion) be healed back up more than Sun Burst and debuffing the mob they're hitting can do. Yet it's really tough to target them when they're moving around. Is there something I'm missing? A trick that I could be using to make this easier?
5 wipes. the cleric and cw are useless. finally the rogues just solo'd him from 80% using some decoy and stealth powers to keep adds off them.
starting to feel like star trek online again. just need tac captains, sci and eng need not apply
I'm undecided about this power. As a DPS power, it's okay. There are other options which do well. I don't see this as a "must have" for a cleric; it's personal preference.
You need to include more details from this fight to say what's wrong. Looks like the CW didn't know how to play his class well. We finished this fight in under 2 minutes with a full party. It was much easier than the Lair of the Mad Dragon.
As a **** cleric, I would love to see you guys link your builds, please. It would be great to see a guide for allocating points with Hallowed Ground in.
*edit: Apparently n o o b is censored. Haha.
A million gazillion bajillion times this! And also the previous post to this. Bastion is HAMSTER. Forge is only useful when everyone is around one boss, which if your party is any good... Only 2, max 3 people are at the boss at one time most of the time!
Your job is to provide ticking healing (divinity shield, astral seal) and buffs and then ... and this is a huge huge huge one... DEAL WITH ADS!
You cannot keep pace with ad damage on your party if you are not killing ads or helping them kill ads. A smart party is dealing with boss and ads and moving around a lot. YOU should also be moving around a lot, changing where you place buffs, debuffs, healing areas. Flame Strike is uber for a mass of 1+ elite and some ads around. Daunting Light even not in divinity can one-shot archer/mage ads that are not elites. And those types of non-elite ads can pepper you and the party with so much damage that if they focus on someone and are 6+, that someone will die. You are a LEADER class. You know what that means? You have to judiciously keep up with the battlefield, realize when a Flame Strike is better than a Hallowed ground, where to place the divinity shield for best usage, when to place Astral Seal and where, which ads to focus on first, etc. Cleric is 100% not just simply a healer class.
I love it. It is a heavenly at 50+ leveling, heavenly at doing daily foundry. Sometimes I slot it in for smaller bosses and slot it out at the bigger bosses... but most of the time don't use in 5man dungeons.
STOP. For heaven's sakes please stop channeling divinity to heal someone. That is such utter waste of divinity! If they stand in red circles, they have to pot. You cannot heal red circle damage, you don't have the tools for that. Stop trying to chase people.
You do not say what level you are. If you do not yet have Shield, use Sun Burst (not in divinity unless you are mobbed) and Astral Seal the heck out of everything (AFTER GF, if you have one, has grabbed boss, please). You can use Forge in divinity when you see 2+ people on boss or an elite. You can have healing word as well, use in divinity when you are sure the target is away from everyone else. But I repeat... you cannot heal red circle damage. Get that out of your head and stop ignoring your duties of debuffing, buffing, healing over time, killing ads to chase around and heal the derpyderp who sat in red circles. They have to pot. If you sit in red circles, YOU have to pot.
If you have shield, cast it in divinity in a convenient area either next to boss or next to where people are killing ads (keep switching between these locations). When people sit or fight in that area they get plenty of healing. Not enough to save them from inability to evade red circles, but enough for everything else.
You're doing it wrong.
They're doing it wrong.
You should have loaded DPS abilities, killed ads and controlled ads with the wizard and evaded your little tush off... You could have chosen to tank the boss while 1 rogue stayed with you and the 2 rogues + wizard kill ads... You could have had 2 rogues on boss and 1 rogue/1 wizard/1 cleric dealing with ads.
But sounds to me you all kind of ignored the ads and tried to bumrush the boss.
A cleric is a great addition to any party if they get it into their heads that killing stuff, namely ads, is also part of your job description. Keeping yourself alive and depending on passives to heal is also an important skill (depending on seal, crits generating heals, hallowed ground with feat or divinity shield to heal etc).
This is the conclusion I've reached as well, through the mid-40's. Clerics here are not cloth casters standing in back watching green bars. You're an offtank and a DPS, and you should be helping kill things attacking you. This is particularly true for archers, which the GWF/ CW may not be able to gather up and AoE down. I always run with my orbital laser strike slotted now
Yes, you're a healer, and you need to be healing. But if that's all you're doing, completing the dungeon will likely be more difficult.
Only skills I know is a must is A Shield the other two are up to you and how you want to play. I seriously think Flame in Divinity is trash and doesn't heal compare to others. With DL and Sun brust I can wipe mobs pretty well. People also in 5 man dungeons are starting to understand that adds needs to be thin out or killed. Wiz are pretty good at this as they suck them in the boss and we just drop aoes lol. Hopfully you find your self a good party but most times wont. Make sure its not your fault first! Clerics can only dos so much for people who want to be idiots and stand in red circles.
And once I understood this and what was actually required of ME in a dungeon, things have been a lot easier to deal with. I tossed out the idea in my head that I had to just stand back and throw heals in, that I was required to get into the mix. That I had to think and plan how to deal with the adds and that just how important dailies are to use at the right time and not just spam buttons. The cleric is a class you have to really work at to play well, but it is highly rewarding at the same time.
Good effort on the guide itself.
That is probably very true :P, but in Neverwinter the leader/controller aspect is very true to successful cleric-ing lol.
We just do not have the tools to just sit in the back healing and nothing else. But we have the tools to manage the flow of battle.
---
What someone said earlier... I am always so happy when I see a wizard in party, they usually are on those ads like no tomorrow. GWF have aoes but half of them are ra ra ra arses who just keep glued to boss and see nothing else. And rogues... well, usually the rogues I've met to peel off the boss and tackle ads, but I've been in 3 rogue parties where nobody was dealing with ads. I told them if I die one more time, I'm staying dead and letting them keep ad aggro. No loot is worth me wasting scrolls of life because of stupidity in party.
The tank cleric build and the crit healer build are very nice threads as well for anyone wanting info. Sadly... we don't have a cleric forum
These powers give you constant bonuses like a buff that
-Drake
I agree about only putting one point in the Cleanse feat. I did that as well and you see it proc all the time. I use Hallowed Ground mostly in group situations, and keep Flame Strike for soloing. Though I wish I knew what Hallowed Ground actually does since the tooltip gives no indication.
-Drake
Will I definitely need to change daunting light around for Sacred Flame once I hit epic dungeons?
Great thread, btw. Regardless (or perhaps because) of the criticism, the information in this thread has been exceptionally helpful. Big kudos go to drake5252 for being the one willing to do the baseline work of posting a guide in the first place, providing an opportunity for the kibitzers to chirp up. Much appreciated.
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