I feel like a punchingbag against Wizards, I feel utterly useless [Rogue]

xykromax

Well my fellow neverwinter gamers,

I really really enjoy the PvP but im having problems really being able todo something usefull ...

I feel as the title says a punchbag ...

I play a Trickster Rogue and yes they hit hard, now the problem is you gotta hit something to get it down well there is the problem ...

The way I see it is that a "Rogue" should go and down the Healers / Caster as a priority.

Well we get 1 stun which is utterly useless and pretty much never works, our Duelist Flurry is way to slow to get on the 3rd chain hit to make it really do something and pretty much everyone knows rogue use it so they just dodge the last hit.
Stealth is more or less useless in PvP as we can still be hitted, I dont mind AoE but even with 1 hit liners ...

Other then that we can be kitted around as monkey's running behind banana's.
Wizards have 3 dodges, rogue's only 2 ... they have an insane CC with very very short cooldown and on top of that they have the frost beam which can frostblock you also ...

Im build to make my stamina go up faster and to use less stamina when I dodge and I still cant get a 3rd dodge out of it in time.

There is just no way that you can down a Wizard Solo while they can just litterly nuke you down in 3 seconds ...

Now I dont really wanne cry out loud OP OP OP but something really needs to be done about it.

I really enjoy the PvP and feel like it could be really fun and exiting but when you counter atleast 2 Wizards in PvP you know you will loose cause you just cant take the dmg and the CC they put out

imivo

I had all sorts of responses going through my head when I read your post, but I will just say that TRs are extremely strong in PvP and that if you removed their only semi-counter, we would see 95% rogues in PvP instead of only 80%.

xykromax

imivo wrote: »

I had all sorts of responses going through my head when I read your post, but I will just say that TRs are extremely strong in PvP and that if you removed their only semi-counter, we would see 95% rogues in PvP instead of only 80%.

No disrespect ment but I dont know how much PvP you played yet but atm the way it is we only stand a chance vs our only class or vs a GWF.

Ive had alot of fight and tried some bits here and there, respecced quite some times yet to try to push it a little bit but once you cross the path of wizard and even healers its over they just kite you to death ...

Might be that im talking rubbish but thats the way the game PvP rolls atm and im definitly not the only one talking about it ...

You think its normal 1 class can kill all classes with ease ?

imivo

My CW is 59, so that is the highest bracket I have experience in. TRs are still extremely strong at that level. Now, perhaps that changes with 60 gear, but this is a team game and one-on-one balance is not really needed, nor does it exist. If you feel that a CW can kill any class, my only suggestion would be that you power-level one and test this for yourself. It is very rare that you only have a rogue on you.

Just to clarify this: I am not saying TRs need a nerf. I think it is too early to ask for them, for any class.

spellwarden

So set up ambushes. If a rogue gets close, stops the ability to cast (as I constantly fall victim to), or stuns a wiz, we are dead. And if you work together with a TEAM, you are unstoppable. It is TEAM work, not solo. I am sorry. But this warrants a special something

http://9gag.com/gag/aDAyvPK

agenteusa

I'm just going to say 2 things :

The way I see it is that a "Rogue" should go and down the Healers / Caster as a priority.

Wrong if you target the healer first. Healers here can't keep anyone alive on their own so cc's should go down first.

No disrespect ment but I dont know how much PvP you played yet but atm the way it is we only stand a chance vs our only class or vs a GWF.

Also no disrespect meant buy if you came to that conclusion you absolutely have no idea on how to play a TR properly. I would check for some guide and tips and tricks as you can pretty much demolish every class in an arena and quite easily actually. Now the trend is saying CW is OP , I still defend it's the TR that is OP , even more after trying it for a while. But CW cc's are absurd too I admit.

I think you also might be overlooking that an arena match isn't 1 vs 1. If I was alone on my main cleric against a TR I would get demolished in seconds, but fortunately I'm smart enough to get near my teammates.

wolfenhowl

Really? REALLY? TR are the last class that should complain on how pvp plays atm,their on top of the food chain in every **** bracket and more and more TRs seem to be rolled out as I get games with 2-3 in each team most of my games.It's getting as boring as hell and I think it's gonna turn into GW2...I mean TW2(thief wars the beginning...)

eyepatchdude

Xykro,
I'm not sure if you're serious, or trolling..


I play TR, and don't see what you're describing at all.. Perhaps you're not using all the tools at your disposal. We have stealth, which will allow us to initiate combat on our terms.. And from stealth our Stun/daze is almost unavoidable. I'm not sure why you use duelist flurry, IMO the animation locks you in place too long, making you an easy target.

There's the daily power that allows us to break cc. We have Encounter powers that place us immediately behind a target, making it hard to kite... There are feats that dramatically reduce the cooldown on out encounters.

dboss777

Learn to better utilize the game mechanics given to you. Most rogues enjoy a successful pvp career by left clicking and tapping two encounters and doing quite well. Your class has more depth and if you hope to continue to do well then you need to start understanding your target and how to beat them.

mconosrep

Wow, now I really have seen it all. Currently the most OP class by a long way in both PvE and PvP is now lobbying to nerf the only class that's anywhere near them........

If you truly do feel TR are so underpowered perhaps you should try a GF or even better a GWF - I am sure that (one way or the other) this will sort out your issues with TR being underpowered

rossignolmort

I agree with everyone else, you are definitely not using your abilities properly. Duelist flurry is no good in PvP to start with. As a TR I can generally solo anyone, sometimes I can take on two people by myself. TR's are definitely not underpowered in any way.

tschriv

I play a TR, and I do NOT endorse the original poster's message. We're fine. Wizards are annoying, but fine. This is another case of someone wanting 1v1 dominance, and that's not how it goes. Arena is TEAM PvP, you should have to work as a team to succeed. You should not be able to utterly dominate on your own.

arktourosx

I'm a Guardian Fighter and a good rogue can wax the floor with me. Most Rogues are just FOTM trash and pretty easy to just face roll but one guy was actually pretty decent and was able to deal extremely hard hitting attacks to break my guard while also doing a good job of locking me down with Daze. I did all the right stuff as a Guardian Fighter, just couldn't keep up with the damage and CC in a 1v1.

christittius

I played my first 4 pvp matches today with my TR and consistently got top in score and kills every time and I'm a complete novice at MMO mechanics in general. The only other class that really posed a significant threat it seemed to me were other TRs.

callmedeux

GRanted I just started Pvping yesterday (lvl 15)

lvl 18 now but...

Ive had 0 issues, I mean hell I can tank a wizard while being attacked by another class and still down the wizard before I die (probably 50% hp) left.

I only met opne tank who could actually tank me in 2-3 hours of pvping last night.

Rogues seem find you just have to play them correctly. Honestly you should be chilling until your OP is reaching 50% hp, then sealth up and roflstomp him / continue

gsundered11

I'm a TR and don't feel overpowered in PvP at all. BUT I recognise that this is because I've only been playing the game a few days and I'm not very good at it yet. It's way, way too early for making judgements on the relative strength of classes. The spread of the key variables - eg level, build, player skill, player experience, player age etc - is way higher in impact than any in-built class mechanics. It'll be weeks if not months before we get a clearer picture.

At the moment we have new players like me, (new to this style of action rpg and AD&D) up against closed beta veterans running up their fifth alt. No wonder my shiny new derriere feels like it's had handles fitted to it sometimes. All that means is I have to get better. I hate calls for class nerfs in the games I play anyway. You just can't balance them all and sometimes the attempt, usually made by programmers without the in depth experience of actually playing what they're nerfing, just makes a class worse.

I also resent investing time and resources in a class just to have developers fundamentally transform it into something else. Like what has happened to hunters in LOTRO over the years. It's just bait and switch. By all means tweak, but by the time a product reaches the stage where you are taking people's money, then you can tweak a class but not change it.

strawbyx

Fighting CWs is all about timing and using the right skills.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7ZmBCrUR2o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ojdd13XAKw

lvl60 pvp videos to come!

cronis10000

I will say this again TR's are very powerful, crying they can't pvp well is simply a lack of understanding on how this class functions. I have pvped 3 classes most of all CW, GWF and TR and the TR wins hands down as the easiest to pvp with. I can do well with both the GWF and CW but I find these classes have to work harder at staying alive than a TR, all the while the TR just tears people apart.

The game will need some tweaking but I still contend those tweaks need to be carefully thought out and probably better left until more people are 60.

zingarbage

agenteusa wrote: »

Wrong if you target the healer first. Healers here can't keep anyone alive on their own so cc's should go down first.

You might want to rethink that. Leaving a cleric unchallenged is going to lose you the fight.

elkysium

Have to agree, rogues are devastating. Learn how the skills function and stack. A rogue can take down any other class one on one if you know what you are doing...

colluzion

24 hours after soft release and people are already asking for nerfz.

Edit: I've only played a few pvp games with the TR and I love the mobility and utility it has. Nearly unstoppable, however, CW tend to **** your day right up. I find the PvP very balance and as someone said before, it is very team oriented. I'm sure at higher levels the 60 gear and builds that are pieced together make some roles more 'overpowered' than others, but that's essentially any game.

duyi

You should try play a gwf in pvp then ;o I feel like a tiny ant, just run around and wait to get stomped on.

agenteusa

zingarbage wrote: »

You might want to rethink that. Leaving a cleric unchallenged is going to lose you the fight.

Well, if all can be tagged sure, but I stand by my option. I'd rather have a pesky CW down than a DC , if I have to choose a first down.

agenteusa

colluzion wrote: »

24 hours after soft release and people are already asking for nerfz.

No people start asking for balance. If it takes nerfs for it to be balanced so be it. Read point 2.

colluzion wrote: »

I find the PvP very balance

I stopped reading here. No seriously it's not, putting it blatantly you either have no clue and just skip from target to target in pvp or you are delusional. Pick the one you feel more comfortable with.

PS By balance I don't mean give GF's same dmg as TR's, I just mean (and since we don't have REAL healers here) that you can compete on somewhat equal ground. If you have a DD that deals tons of dmg more than any other classes and there are no healers , well it isn't a great balance now is it?

wuhsin

I haven't played PVP but I think when they release the Archer Ranger that Wizards won't last very long in an arena with them. Squishy controller versus ranged striker? No chance.

edge1986

LOL OP is either trolling, or just plain sucks. Sorry, but true.

zingarbage

agenteusa wrote: »

Well, if all can be tagged sure, but I stand by my option. I'd rather have a pesky CW down than a DC , if I have to choose a first down.

At 60, it is who has clerics that wins the games. They are a bit OP imo. A cleric with improved foresight, astral shield, cleanse, and then a hallowed will absolutely keep an entire team free from harm. It is like throwing rocks at a tank.

lanessar13

agenteusa wrote: »

PS By balance I don't mean give GF's same dmg as TR's, I just mean (and since we don't have REAL healers here) that you can compete on somewhat equal ground. If you have a DD that deals tons of dmg more than any other classes and there are no healers , well it isn't a great balance now is it?

By this statement, you are delusional. Here's a clip about why you bring a knife to a nuke fight.

Seriously, DC don't do much damage, but they can CC and save the day. CW do ok damage, but their CC can totally ravage rogues when played well. Damage numbers aren't iWin. Never has and never will. A good example are the PvP videos from Vanilla WOW feral druids. They take a while to defeat their opponents, but they win more often than not.

PvP is all about control and lockdown. That wins more PvP fights than any amount of damage dealt. Period.

agenteusa

lanessar13 wrote: »

By this statement, you are delusional.
Seriously, DC don't do much damage, but they can CC and save the day. CW do ok damage, but their CC can totally ravage rogues when played well. Damage numbers aren't iWin. Never has and never will. A good example are the PvP videos from Vanilla WOW feral druids. They take a while to defeat their opponents, but they win more often than not.

Oh, cut me the HAMSTER with stupid examples...

never, never and i mean EVER have I found such a gap between dmg in dungs and pvp. Listen to the wise words of some here instead of just rolling with the clueless flock.

I dunno if you play a TR but if you don't further down the line you WILL get frustrated if they don't balance things out.

But , hey you opinion is your opinion, wanna keep it , go ahead.

And btw I never said all DD in a group comp would win most matches in any game. I just said it happens in this game.

hemosiderin

Okay... seriously? You don't think stealth has any beneficial mechanics in pvp? I think you need to play for a bit longer before making a huge statement like that...

Wait until you're at LEAST 45.

Also, I am 43, and i've been able to nuke down level 47-49 wizards easily. The key is getting the jump on them, and doing your best to land your daze. Burn your daily as well. Be sure to equip the CC breaker encounter if you really hate playing against wizards.

senseijohn

For those who are for or against TR's being top bill in PVP... you're wrong. Sorta.

Here's the deal with TR's. They are at the top of the food chain in ONE ON ONE combat. They have no AoE's to speak of and few stuns. They are good at one thing. Beating down one person - preferable from stealth or behind. In that, they excel and are (rightly so) at the top of their chain.

As someone pointed out, PVP is not ONE ON ONE. Consequently, TR's must be EXTREMELY selective about what fights they choose and how they choose them. If you even go on 2 on 1, you will most likely get creamed... especially 2 casters. It's basically like fighting two end bosses at the same time... only with MUCH better AI.

In addition, you need to be properly spec'ed JUST for PVP in order to do your best at it. The techniques that make TR's great dps (stealth, dummy, etc.) don't work the same (if at all) in PVP because players are much better and much more unpredictable than the game's AI mobs.