It has nothing at all to do with attention. I am letting them know that they will be losing revenue until reimplementation.
You simply are reacting on an emotional level.
If controller support is crashing their game then they need to take a long look at their programming team.
Perhaps you should take your own advice on leaving constructive criticism and moving on. I am sure you do not want to be perceived as a hypocrite now do you?:D
Clearly it does have to do with getting attention or else you could have simply put in a ticket instead of posting it on a public forum. In fact, a ticket would have probably yielded better results (If all you really wanted to do was leave your feedback). A post on a forum isn't going to "let them know they are losing revenue until reimplementation". They already know controller support will bring in additional customers, which is why it was added into the game to begin with.
I hardly see how stating facts is an emotional response, and insulting their programmers because they can't create perfect code on your schedule seems fairly unrealistic.
Now here is my personal response:
You are the worst type of person. You quibble over petty distinctions (Like the "Thread/Forum" discussion. You both knew exactly what the other was talking about - But no, you had to "school him"). You are arrogant, and you assume that just because you are intelligent, that other people's opinions are invalid. I feel sorry for anyone who has to interact with you on a daily basis.
I'm glad you won't be joining the community.
I won't be back to this conversation, because frankly it is a waste of both our time. Have a nice day.
0
mutharexMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Feedback is not always positive and It was indeed my intention to highlight the negatives of not keeping controller support in the game. Text has no sound inherently and some people simply have issues with anyone criticizing something they are emotional concerning. It does not really concern me that some people are hyper-sensitive about the issue as long as it is brought to the attention of the companies decision makers.
I didn't mean that you don't have to give negative feedback, quite the opposite. But the title and the tone make it sound like a whine, a kid that can't have what he wants because as you said text has no sound and people add to what they read their own interpretation. As you said people can be hypersensitive, for the sake of getting things fixed/added, let's try to keep the forum clean of useless flamewars. Hope you get what I am trying to say (not a native speaker, sorry)
Clearly it does have to do with getting attention or else you could have simply put in a ticket instead of posting it on a public forum. In fact, a ticket would have probably yielded better results (If all you really wanted to do was leave your feedback). A post on a forum isn't going to "let them know they are losing revenue until reimplementation". They already know controller support will bring in additional customers, which is why it was added into the game to begin with.
I hardly see how stating facts is an emotional response, and insulting their programmers because they can't create perfect code on your schedule seems fairly unrealistic.
Now here is my personal response:
You are the worst type of person. You quibble over petty distinctions (Like the "Thread/Forum" discussion. You both knew exactly what the other was talking about - But no, you had to "school him"). You are arrogant, and you assume that just because you are intelligent, that other people's opinions are invalid. I feel sorry for anyone who has to interact with you on a daily basis.
I'm glad you won't be joining the community.
I won't be back to this conversation, because frankly it is a waste of both our time. Have a nice day.
Tickets get lost in the shuffle and companies utilize forums as feedback. With that stated trying to control what someone types on the internet is a futile endeavor at best. You can only control yourself. Trying to control what people type will only lead to further frustration and anger on your part.
You are emotionally compromised and have been from your first post.
Your tragic mistake was assuming that what you feel personally is of any consequence to me. I was simply highlighting your hypocrisy is all. I do not feel that other peoples opinions are invalid I simply stated mine and reflected and magnified any animosity that was directed towards me. Perhaps you feel invalidated and are projecting and/or are looking for validation via forums? Not the best places for such endeavors.
And the worst type of person huh? Come now. Surely you can think of worse types of people. Murderers. People that are cruel to animals. Drug dealers. Seriously. The worst? lol. Your emotions are clouding your sense of reality.
Again, whether you are glad or not makes no difference to me.
I sincerely hope that you honor your commitment to not revisit this conversation and if you had have realized in the beginning that it was a waste of time then you would have saved yourself many, umm, seconds(?) of typing and reading.
I didn't mean that you don't have to give negative feedback, quite the opposite. But the title and the tone make it sound like a whine, a kid that can't have what he wants because as you said text has no sound and people add to what they read their own interpretation. As you said people can be hypersensitive, for the sake of getting things fixed/added, let's try to keep the forum clean of useless flamewars. Hope you get what I am trying to say (not a native speaker, sorry)
Again, text has no sound, so i didn't "make it sound like" anything. Often times peoples skewed interpretation is a form of projecting i.e. a whiny person sees whining, whereas a person who has issues with the lack of support can see it for exactly what it is.: a statement of the lack of support neing the cause of me not playing and spending money on the game. I would submit that any subsequent "flamewars" were cause by overtly-sensitive people with control issues who have a difficult time accepting views other than their own. (again, you are not speaking, you are typing)
omg809Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I got an xpadder question. I have a button set to shift+2 for quick greed in dungeon runs, but when i use it does the greed but also uses my personal power, it is as if it was doing shift+2 and then 2 again. This happens with all the combos i mapped (ctrl+I, shift+1, etc).
How can i fix it?
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ssjrrMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I hope they never implement controller support after having read this thread, heh.
I got an xpadder question. I have a button set to shift+2 for quick greed in dungeon runs, but when i use it does the greed but also uses my personal power, it is as if it was doing shift+2 and then 2 again. This happens with all the combos i mapped (ctrl+I, shift+1, etc).
How can i fix it?
Yeah, I ran into this too. The way I fixed it was to create secondary binds for those commands on the function keys, then have Xpadder activate those function keys.
I setup my controller with a very good setup using JoytoKey (a free keymapper) and it makes the game a bit more enjoyable. Its also easy to setup if anyone who has a controller wants the info.
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omg809Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Yeah, I ran into this too. The way I fixed it was to create secondary binds for those commands on the function keys, then have Xpadder activate those function keys.
oh yess!! Why didn't i think of that lol... thanks!
Play starcraft 2 with your controller and we'll see how outdated kb/mouse is.
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omg809Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Playing starcraft or any RTS that i know of with a gamepad would be painful, even Halo wars which was design for console exclusively was annoying to play. However, I don't understand the m/k vs gamepad argument, I like to use both depending on the game mechanics. In this particular case i prefer the controller, but keep my m/k near by for when i need to sort my inventory or do something that requires extended use of the UI.
Certain games favor certain control schemes. I don't play racing games, or anything that requires precision movement (aka 3D platformers) with a keyboard/mouse because those favor the analog controls of a joystick for example. For most everything else I prefer the precision and versatility of having a keyboard and mouse. They keyboard just has more keys to work with, so you don't have to have one button do every function in the game (coughMassEffect3cough) MMO's are a bit of a toss up for controller vs mouse/keyboard, and it all boils down to is it like WoW or is it like GW2? GW2 style (limited actionbar space) will better accommodate the limited button real estate of a controller, but games like WoW just would not be feasible.
If your preference is a controller, that's fine, and it's a shame they disabled controller support for those that also prefer it. Others have suggested workarounds for you, and we've all seen how well you've responded to that help :P
On a final note, in the age old thread/post debate earlier, here's how I look at it. The thread is the box that the posts reside in, and sets the topic for discussion. The posts are the various contributions to said topic. In order to create a thread, however, you must create a post, otherwise it's just an empty box that people just "wtf?" at. Yes, there's a reply to thread button, because it means you're replying to the topic at hand, however, the other person was referring to what is known as your Original Post, or the post that created the thread. So, you're both correct on the matter.
Ahh good, new batch of /popcorn is ready, please continue for my amusement.
Call me when you reinstate native controller support (it was in beta for a short time). It is 2013. Controller support should be standard in an mmo.
I will pass on the sore wrists tyvm.
...
Just...
...
I don't know what to say really. Most people play PC games because of the better graphics and better control you have over the game(not counting pc only titles)...
To say that you won't play because this game doesn't support a dumbed down controller scheme makes me feel like you'd be happier following the Call of Duty herd than the mmo crowd.
I would prefer we had the option to enable gamepads also. Yes I know people say x-padder and joytokey etc. but I don't want to use something that should be supported by the engine.
I'm an avid player of both STO and CO mostly because of their Controller support. I use custom layouts in both, more so in STO that CO the way I have my sticks set up in those games would work perfect here I have my forward and Back movement and camera rotation mapped to the left joystick of a logitech dual action. Strafe and up/down camera to the right stick (I rarely use these anyway).
In both games I have tab targeting disabled and use reticule targeting, I can target just as well and fast as anyone using a mouse, and in fact far faster than I can myself with the mouse. Just because of how natural the layout feels to me. Maybe it's my 3+ years of playing CO with the controller, though.
This game almost cries for the same support and It's sad it's not there since both of Cryptic's other games have it. Heck I can even set the binds myself as long as the controllers are enabled.
I remapped both the CO and STO layouts because the Dual Action has a slightly different button layout than the X-box controller, and would with this as long as I had the option to at least enable a controller.
Controllers are as outdated as keyboard/mouse. I was using controllers in the damned 80's.
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keegusmcdMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
hahahaha, ok while I do agree that more options are great, but when you're making an argument for controller support and the whole basis of your argument is "because KB/M is outdated tech", you have kind of shot yourself in the foot there. If controllers are the apotheosis as the OP claims, then why is it EVERY console maker on the market now is distancing themselves from them more and more every year? Talk about the pot calling the refridgerator black.
The issue isn't about one or the other being outdated. It's about ease of use and comfort when playing. I'm one of those that almost has to look down at the keyboard (doing it right now) to make sure I'm using the right keys. Not good while in the middle of combat trying to move around and use abilities/powers when I have to look away from the screen. With a controller this is intuitive I know exactly what 1 or 2 button combos do what.
I know that if I move my left stick forward, I'm going to move forward, if I move it left I'm going to turn to the left, etc.
Now I don't want everything controlled with the gamepad, some things such as inventory management, chat etc. work better with KB and mouse.
But for movement and in combat where keeping my attention on the action is paramount I prefer the controller.
I play lots of computer games with a controller. Champions Online, DCUO, Tera to name a few. The Mech Warrior series was a LOT more fun with a joystick. I am a Jedi Master metaphorically speaking. Controllers are Much more enjoyable for me and no wrist discomfort. It also increases immersion as well in my opinion.
If you prefer a K/M set-up that is your choice and I respect that. There are simply those of us that prefer controllers and I , myself,view K/M controls as outdated tech, no offense.
Yoda may look like a whiny troll but there is a big difference between the two
Have a nice life.... not sure why you'd think it would work with a controller, it's a PC game.
You have obviously never played Champions Online or Star Trek Online with a controller instead of the keyboard/mouse. It's far easier gameplay, no need to look away from the screen in combat, the ability to turn your character without moving a mouse and using keyboard controls. I think for movement it's far better. One thumb controls all movement instead of both the left hand and right hand at the same time. I know this isn't a console game I don't want a console game. I hate console games, and haven't played them since the original playstation. Their menu and inventory navigation sucks, I still prefer the mouse for that. But when the action starts I'm much faster with my cheap generic controller.
Also there are people with mobility issues or physical limitations that make using the keyboard and mouse an impossibility. Take someone with only 1 hand or limited use of a hand, how are they going to use both keyboard and mouse? Yet there are game controllers out there with a single thumbstick and button layout designed for one handed use.
I myself am starting to get arthritis as are quite a few of us older players. Yes there are some of us out here old enough to remember when the Apple II was the only computer on the market LOL.
Also coordination is an issue I'm sorry but when using the mouse to control turning at the same time as looking up/down I invariably end up looking at the sky while trying to turn to attack enemies, just because the mouse controls both axises. I like having my view to stay on the same plane and not moving up/down unless I want it to change, and the mouse can't give me that stability in movement, the controller can.
I can't even fathom how people stomach playing Champions without the 360 controller.. but I guess more power to them if they do. That said, I was very disapointed that tech wasn't ported over here. I'll end up trying to use X-padder or something because that's the only way to do it, but I really want to see native support enabled.
I don't know what to say really. Most people play PC games because of the better graphics and better control you have over the game(not counting pc only titles)...
To say that you won't play because this game doesn't support a dumbed down controller scheme makes me feel like you'd be happier following the Call of Duty herd than the mmo crowd.
You're assuming the controller scheme is dumbed down.
The main benefit of KB and Mouse is KB lets you have unlimited keybinds - which aren't really all that needed in Cryptic games, and absolute precision - also not really all that needed in Cryptic games.
The main benefit of controllers is twitch response and versatility - two things that are pretty useful for Cryptic games.
NW is strange because it does let you free-look to aim - but so does STO which supports controllers. It also has faced paced combat that requires a certain amount of twitch - and so does CO which supports controllers.
Now, take a game like Darksiders 2 on the PC - It's basically NW offline in many respects - loot, active combat, dodging/blocking mechanic, twitch response, free-look aiming, horseback riding, large open world, blah blah blah, and a **** ton of contextual menus. Navigate that game and tell me where KB and Mouse would improve the experience.
The problem with NW is that it's trying to retain some of the old **** found in games for no real reason, like endless text missions and power tray bull**** that we've become accustomed to from MMOs.
Meanwhile DCUO (as <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> as it is) has fully animated mission info (which I hate, for the record) and Darksiders has radial menu contextual interactions (what happened to the "why are you here?" varying conversation we saw in the tutorial by the way?), so why is NW sticking to this other garbage?
Because it's D&D? Well, not according to **** near everyone on these boards, but that aside, at what point in a PnP campaign did your GM stop you and hand you a sheet of paper with text?
Imagine being able to emote or command a team by holding select and having a radial dial pop up with preselected emotes like Attack! Stop! Run! etc. that you can just analogue to select in the heat of battle using a controller. Faster than typing, no? Just because a technology isn't used well doesn't make that technology flawed.
And in the end, who really cares? It was there, some people wanted it, why remove it?
Basically what chuckwolf, cryptickalidor, and pion01 said.
Like the original poster I was disappointed with the lack of native controller support, but I decided to buy Xpadder and set it up rather than give up. And it works pretty well (except for the left stick which feels "sticky" because it is sending WASD commands rather than analog commands).
The ironic thing is that Neverwinter works REALLY well with a controller. Better than Champions and much better than Star Trek.
Comments
Not a person of your word I see. You did indeed state that you were going to ignore me. Come now, integrity and all that....
Clearly it does have to do with getting attention or else you could have simply put in a ticket instead of posting it on a public forum. In fact, a ticket would have probably yielded better results (If all you really wanted to do was leave your feedback). A post on a forum isn't going to "let them know they are losing revenue until reimplementation". They already know controller support will bring in additional customers, which is why it was added into the game to begin with.
I hardly see how stating facts is an emotional response, and insulting their programmers because they can't create perfect code on your schedule seems fairly unrealistic.
Now here is my personal response:
You are the worst type of person. You quibble over petty distinctions (Like the "Thread/Forum" discussion. You both knew exactly what the other was talking about - But no, you had to "school him"). You are arrogant, and you assume that just because you are intelligent, that other people's opinions are invalid. I feel sorry for anyone who has to interact with you on a daily basis.
I'm glad you won't be joining the community.
I won't be back to this conversation, because frankly it is a waste of both our time. Have a nice day.
I didn't mean that you don't have to give negative feedback, quite the opposite. But the title and the tone make it sound like a whine, a kid that can't have what he wants because as you said text has no sound and people add to what they read their own interpretation. As you said people can be hypersensitive, for the sake of getting things fixed/added, let's try to keep the forum clean of useless flamewars. Hope you get what I am trying to say (not a native speaker, sorry)
Tickets get lost in the shuffle and companies utilize forums as feedback. With that stated trying to control what someone types on the internet is a futile endeavor at best. You can only control yourself. Trying to control what people type will only lead to further frustration and anger on your part.
You are emotionally compromised and have been from your first post.
Your tragic mistake was assuming that what you feel personally is of any consequence to me. I was simply highlighting your hypocrisy is all. I do not feel that other peoples opinions are invalid I simply stated mine and reflected and magnified any animosity that was directed towards me. Perhaps you feel invalidated and are projecting and/or are looking for validation via forums? Not the best places for such endeavors.
And the worst type of person huh? Come now. Surely you can think of worse types of people. Murderers. People that are cruel to animals. Drug dealers. Seriously. The worst? lol. Your emotions are clouding your sense of reality.
Again, whether you are glad or not makes no difference to me.
I sincerely hope that you honor your commitment to not revisit this conversation and if you had have realized in the beginning that it was a waste of time then you would have saved yourself many, umm, seconds(?) of typing and reading.
Again, text has no sound, so i didn't "make it sound like" anything. Often times peoples skewed interpretation is a form of projecting i.e. a whiny person sees whining, whereas a person who has issues with the lack of support can see it for exactly what it is.: a statement of the lack of support neing the cause of me not playing and spending money on the game. I would submit that any subsequent "flamewars" were cause by overtly-sensitive people with control issues who have a difficult time accepting views other than their own. (again, you are not speaking, you are typing)
How can i fix it?
Besides, 1 less customer isn't a problem.
You're joking right?
He's blurring the lines of Troll and person who is ... well... not right?
M&K are for the adults.
/the end
Yeah, I ran into this too. The way I fixed it was to create secondary binds for those commands on the function keys, then have Xpadder activate those function keys.
oh yess!! Why didn't i think of that lol... thanks!
Certain games favor certain control schemes. I don't play racing games, or anything that requires precision movement (aka 3D platformers) with a keyboard/mouse because those favor the analog controls of a joystick for example. For most everything else I prefer the precision and versatility of having a keyboard and mouse. They keyboard just has more keys to work with, so you don't have to have one button do every function in the game (coughMassEffect3cough) MMO's are a bit of a toss up for controller vs mouse/keyboard, and it all boils down to is it like WoW or is it like GW2? GW2 style (limited actionbar space) will better accommodate the limited button real estate of a controller, but games like WoW just would not be feasible.
If your preference is a controller, that's fine, and it's a shame they disabled controller support for those that also prefer it. Others have suggested workarounds for you, and we've all seen how well you've responded to that help :P
On a final note, in the age old thread/post debate earlier, here's how I look at it. The thread is the box that the posts reside in, and sets the topic for discussion. The posts are the various contributions to said topic. In order to create a thread, however, you must create a post, otherwise it's just an empty box that people just "wtf?" at. Yes, there's a reply to thread button, because it means you're replying to the topic at hand, however, the other person was referring to what is known as your Original Post, or the post that created the thread. So, you're both correct on the matter.
Ahh good, new batch of /popcorn is ready, please continue for my amusement.
...
Just...
...
I don't know what to say really. Most people play PC games because of the better graphics and better control you have over the game(not counting pc only titles)...
To say that you won't play because this game doesn't support a dumbed down controller scheme makes me feel like you'd be happier following the Call of Duty herd than the mmo crowd.
I'm an avid player of both STO and CO mostly because of their Controller support. I use custom layouts in both, more so in STO that CO the way I have my sticks set up in those games would work perfect here I have my forward and Back movement and camera rotation mapped to the left joystick of a logitech dual action. Strafe and up/down camera to the right stick (I rarely use these anyway).
In both games I have tab targeting disabled and use reticule targeting, I can target just as well and fast as anyone using a mouse, and in fact far faster than I can myself with the mouse. Just because of how natural the layout feels to me. Maybe it's my 3+ years of playing CO with the controller, though.
This game almost cries for the same support and It's sad it's not there since both of Cryptic's other games have it. Heck I can even set the binds myself as long as the controllers are enabled.
I remapped both the CO and STO layouts because the Dual Action has a slightly different button layout than the X-box controller, and would with this as long as I had the option to at least enable a controller.
I know that if I move my left stick forward, I'm going to move forward, if I move it left I'm going to turn to the left, etc.
Now I don't want everything controlled with the gamepad, some things such as inventory management, chat etc. work better with KB and mouse.
But for movement and in combat where keeping my attention on the action is paramount I prefer the controller.
Yoda may look like a whiny troll but there is a big difference between the two
You have obviously never played Champions Online or Star Trek Online with a controller instead of the keyboard/mouse. It's far easier gameplay, no need to look away from the screen in combat, the ability to turn your character without moving a mouse and using keyboard controls. I think for movement it's far better. One thumb controls all movement instead of both the left hand and right hand at the same time. I know this isn't a console game I don't want a console game. I hate console games, and haven't played them since the original playstation. Their menu and inventory navigation sucks, I still prefer the mouse for that. But when the action starts I'm much faster with my cheap generic controller.
Also there are people with mobility issues or physical limitations that make using the keyboard and mouse an impossibility. Take someone with only 1 hand or limited use of a hand, how are they going to use both keyboard and mouse? Yet there are game controllers out there with a single thumbstick and button layout designed for one handed use.
I myself am starting to get arthritis as are quite a few of us older players. Yes there are some of us out here old enough to remember when the Apple II was the only computer on the market LOL.
Also coordination is an issue I'm sorry but when using the mouse to control turning at the same time as looking up/down I invariably end up looking at the sky while trying to turn to attack enemies, just because the mouse controls both axises. I like having my view to stay on the same plane and not moving up/down unless I want it to change, and the mouse can't give me that stability in movement, the controller can.
[SIGPIC]http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=93012404000&dateline=1344025336[/SIGPIC]
You're assuming the controller scheme is dumbed down.
The main benefit of KB and Mouse is KB lets you have unlimited keybinds - which aren't really all that needed in Cryptic games, and absolute precision - also not really all that needed in Cryptic games.
The main benefit of controllers is twitch response and versatility - two things that are pretty useful for Cryptic games.
NW is strange because it does let you free-look to aim - but so does STO which supports controllers. It also has faced paced combat that requires a certain amount of twitch - and so does CO which supports controllers.
Now, take a game like Darksiders 2 on the PC - It's basically NW offline in many respects - loot, active combat, dodging/blocking mechanic, twitch response, free-look aiming, horseback riding, large open world, blah blah blah, and a **** ton of contextual menus. Navigate that game and tell me where KB and Mouse would improve the experience.
The problem with NW is that it's trying to retain some of the old **** found in games for no real reason, like endless text missions and power tray bull**** that we've become accustomed to from MMOs.
Meanwhile DCUO (as <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> as it is) has fully animated mission info (which I hate, for the record) and Darksiders has radial menu contextual interactions (what happened to the "why are you here?" varying conversation we saw in the tutorial by the way?), so why is NW sticking to this other garbage?
Because it's D&D? Well, not according to **** near everyone on these boards, but that aside, at what point in a PnP campaign did your GM stop you and hand you a sheet of paper with text?
Imagine being able to emote or command a team by holding select and having a radial dial pop up with preselected emotes like Attack! Stop! Run! etc. that you can just analogue to select in the heat of battle using a controller. Faster than typing, no? Just because a technology isn't used well doesn't make that technology flawed.
And in the end, who really cares? It was there, some people wanted it, why remove it?
Like the original poster I was disappointed with the lack of native controller support, but I decided to buy Xpadder and set it up rather than give up. And it works pretty well (except for the left stick which feels "sticky" because it is sending WASD commands rather than analog commands).
The ironic thing is that Neverwinter works REALLY well with a controller. Better than Champions and much better than Star Trek.