Tough call to comment, when one hasn't played the game yet, but as a potential guardian fighter what I saw both comforted me and comfirmed some of my fears.
The positive:
Overall I think the GF (you?) did a good job of (trying) to hold aggro. It clearly showed that with proper playstyle and spec it is possible even with difficulties. As someone complete unknown to the icons of the skills, I can't speak to your feat and skill build/setup, so maybe you could share that?
I think what the video did show off really well is that with proper gear level and 1 of each type (defender, controller, striker, and leader), you can easily take down any boss and adds.
The not so positive:
Several times you had to run around almost desperately trying to get aggro. Part of the reason for this is one of my main fears of any MMO I tank in, which is dps running ahead of the group eagerly aggroing all over the place. It was very clear the group did that, especially the CW was bad at it. This is not a special Neverwinter thing, it is an unfortunately culture of MMOs today, where people expect they can do that and not die, and usually is they do die it will be claimed as the tanks or healers fault (I blame all the reality TV shows of today where people expect to made famous and claim millions in record time )
Yet you still steamrolled the dungeon, however as you are based on Hero and Guardian founder packs, you do get lvl 60 starter gear, which F2P players have to grind first, so I doubt us joining Tuesday will have just as easy a time (this is no complaint, just an observation that F2P players might have to grind several normal mode dungeon before going into herioc versions). And please do correct me if all of you ran with normal questing gear, but it seemed that is was epic gear several places.
Another not so great thing (and another unfortunate culture in MMO), every single member of your group often stood right in front of the mobs attacks and red AoE attacks with no regard for the damage. Whether this is because you knew you could handle the damage with your gearlevel, or if it again proves people just don't get running dungeons and doing their best to avoid damage. I suspect it is because you have run the dungeon a lot, and know what to expect and what you can survive, but this will most likely not be the attitude and knowledge I and many other hopefuls into the world of tanking and healing in Neverwinter heroics come our early time at lvl 60 (I know, get a guild, but unfortunately most guilds demand a certain level of activity even the casual ones).
Anyway was a nice view of a heroic dungeon run from a GF's point of view, and if you could give some insight to your build and skills (don't know the symbols for each skill viewed onscreen yet), I would appreciate it as I am sure other upcoming GFs would.
The packs do not get Lvl 60 gear. The gear they have either came from grinding, or AD (astral diamonds). The only weapon you get from the founder packs is a weapon at lvl 1 that honestly is quite OP for a level 1. It will be the only weapon you need until about lvl 15. But after that, your back to the basic grind or buying with AD.
Rigas Crimstone, Officer
"Perfecting the art of being a meatshield since 1998"
I really appreciate you putting this up. It's a good video and it solidified my thoughts a bit on classes. It looks like GFs are definitely useful and I think your run would have been a lot smoother with a cleric along.
The main reason is that a cleric would actually help you with threat a bit. My thought is that a cleric standing right behind you dropping Astral Shield and standing there would bring all the mobs right to you reducing the need to run around chasing like you were doing. Obviously the cleric needs to be capable of off-tanking briefly but that's easy enough.
Essentially I see it working like this:
GF tanks the boss with a cleric behind him pulling in all the melee adds. TR stays on the boss and the GWF just AoE slaughters the adds the cleric draws in around the boss. The CW then picks off the ranged adds and/or draws them in to the kill zone around the boss. Obviously there's variation but that's the general idea of how I imagine it would work.
Clerics can basically produce a spot on the field where people can stand and fight and significantly reduce the chaos and running around by acting as a beacon for the adds.
Unfortunately I've never had a group with one of each class to really test it.
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tunnelvizionMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited April 2013
Ideally we would have had a cleric but it was day 3 into launch and about 4 am pdt, cloak tower happens to be one of these instances where this was possible, but i 110% agree that i want a cleric in group, no cleric is alot of the reason i was moving and kiting so much, im only relying on my hp pots and cleric companions, def alot harder to worry about other people when im responsible for potting and agroing every mob without constant heals, also im pretty sure alot of decent clerics out there are already out DPSing Cw/Tr's from what ive seen, so i dont see a downfall to a cleric ever, even multiple. -Timecop
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tunnelvizionMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited April 2013
Another not so great thing (and another unfortunate culture in MMO), every single member of your group often stood right in front of the mobs attacks and red AoE attacks with no regard for the damage. Whether this is because you knew you could handle the damage with your gearlevel, or if it again proves people just don't get running dungeons and doing their best to avoid damage. I suspect it is because you have run the dungeon a lot, and know what to expect and what you can survive, but this will most likely not be the attitude and knowledge I and many other hopefuls into the world of tanking and healing in Neverwinter heroics come our early time at lvl 60 (I know, get a guild, but unfortunately most guilds demand a certain level of activity even the casual ones).
).
Unfortunatly another good call, we had run this a few dozen times so the passive attitude may have def been just faceroll and stand there, and 3 of us had a pretty decent gear lvl for the runs, BUT everyone stood in red stuff constantly, what I think is this, if you watch the dps, they all use their movement abilities IE blink/dodge/sprint on CD to feel faster, so everytime we engage anything they are out of Stamina to roll/evade, could be super wrong, just what ive been seeing, we want to be able to pull so fast these days that no one bothers going in to the pull ready, sorta like my older videos where peopel were upset i didnt use my daily abilities on cooldown <----LOL -Timecop
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maiku217Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The packs do not get Lvl 60 gear. The gear they have either came from grinding, or AD (astral diamonds). The only weapon you get from the founder packs is a weapon at lvl 1 that honestly is quite OP for a level 1. It will be the only weapon you need until about lvl 15. But after that, your back to the basic grind or buying with AD.
Actually, you get a level 60 purple nightmare weapon. Best weapon in-game but maybe not so much stat wise.. they don't really give the stats you want for your build lol.
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tunnelvizionMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited April 2013
Im also only a 60$ founder, so i didnt get the epic weapon =(
Actually, you get a level 60 purple nightmare weapon. Best weapon in-game but maybe not so much stat wise.. they don't really give the stats you want for your build lol.
Interesting. Doesn't say that in description.
Rigas Crimstone, Officer
"Perfecting the art of being a meatshield since 1998"
madprophetusMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited April 2013
I'm playing a lower level guardian fighter, and the same agro difficulties are there as well. Playing a tank in NWO is, like every other MMO out there, very dependent on the other four people in your group. They set the difficulty for the tank through whether or not they play in a pro- or anti-social style. The lack of a vote to kick button is going to be an interesting thing to see play out.
Overall the game is very fun and I'm sticking with my GF as it appeals to me more than the GWF for tanking. I am sure there will be some changes coming to the dungeon tuning once this game is out in the wild and the community is expanded. My recommendation would be to stick with GWF if you're on the fence about tanking until the dust settles.
DELZOUN TREASURE BOX
This level 60 chest is guaranteed to contain a rare weapon or implement with a unique enchantment and special visual effect. (one per character)
the weapon is around the Unicorn/Drake Seal level. The Unicorn Weapon cost 90 tokens and we're getting about 8-12 per run (not including any bonus from the Dungeon Delve event). With the weapon I had to equip a few Lv60 greens to have enough of a gear score to enter.
Our group, with one of each class, learned quickly that the Guardian enters combat first and we kinda wait a few seconds before attacking. The Guardian stays on the Elite/Boss the whole fight while the Great Weapon tanks the adds. The Rogue and Wizard both focus on adds and when all adds are down they return to the boss.
I've queued and entered an elite dungeon without a GF or GWF. 3 rogues did fine because the extra damage was there.
Open the Launcher. Click Options near the top. Check Disable on-demand patching. This will download another couple of gigs.
hoistalldaybroMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited April 2013
I dont think the GF's are meant to hold every bit of aggro. The side mobs are light work for rouges and CW's. As long as you take majority of the damage you should be good. I am enjoying GF so much.
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nemesis788450Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Several times you had to run around almost desperately trying to get aggro.
are you kidding me??? you actually have TO DO something in this game and cannot just stand there and mash the same button over and over???? WHAT A CRAPP GAME
0
hoistalldaybroMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited April 2013
lmao right nem? I love the fact that I have to be on my toes to hold aggro. Its very challenging and fun!
platqt
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 46
Comments
The positive:
Overall I think the GF (you?) did a good job of (trying) to hold aggro. It clearly showed that with proper playstyle and spec it is possible even with difficulties. As someone complete unknown to the icons of the skills, I can't speak to your feat and skill build/setup, so maybe you could share that?
I think what the video did show off really well is that with proper gear level and 1 of each type (defender, controller, striker, and leader), you can easily take down any boss and adds.
The not so positive:
Several times you had to run around almost desperately trying to get aggro. Part of the reason for this is one of my main fears of any MMO I tank in, which is dps running ahead of the group eagerly aggroing all over the place. It was very clear the group did that, especially the CW was bad at it. This is not a special Neverwinter thing, it is an unfortunately culture of MMOs today, where people expect they can do that and not die, and usually is they do die it will be claimed as the tanks or healers fault (I blame all the reality TV shows of today where people expect to made famous and claim millions in record time
Yet you still steamrolled the dungeon, however as you are based on Hero and Guardian founder packs, you do get lvl 60 starter gear, which F2P players have to grind first, so I doubt us joining Tuesday will have just as easy a time (this is no complaint, just an observation that F2P players might have to grind several normal mode dungeon before going into herioc versions). And please do correct me if all of you ran with normal questing gear, but it seemed that is was epic gear several places.
Another not so great thing (and another unfortunate culture in MMO), every single member of your group often stood right in front of the mobs attacks and red AoE attacks with no regard for the damage. Whether this is because you knew you could handle the damage with your gearlevel, or if it again proves people just don't get running dungeons and doing their best to avoid damage. I suspect it is because you have run the dungeon a lot, and know what to expect and what you can survive, but this will most likely not be the attitude and knowledge I and many other hopefuls into the world of tanking and healing in Neverwinter heroics come our early time at lvl 60 (I know, get a guild, but unfortunately most guilds demand a certain level of activity even the casual ones).
Anyway was a nice view of a heroic dungeon run from a GF's point of view, and if you could give some insight to your build and skills (don't know the symbols for each skill viewed onscreen yet), I would appreciate it as I am sure other upcoming GFs would.
"Perfecting the art of being a meatshield since 1998"
Banners of the Light
The main reason is that a cleric would actually help you with threat a bit. My thought is that a cleric standing right behind you dropping Astral Shield and standing there would bring all the mobs right to you reducing the need to run around chasing like you were doing. Obviously the cleric needs to be capable of off-tanking briefly but that's easy enough.
Essentially I see it working like this:
GF tanks the boss with a cleric behind him pulling in all the melee adds. TR stays on the boss and the GWF just AoE slaughters the adds the cleric draws in around the boss. The CW then picks off the ranged adds and/or draws them in to the kill zone around the boss. Obviously there's variation but that's the general idea of how I imagine it would work.
Clerics can basically produce a spot on the field where people can stand and fight and significantly reduce the chaos and running around by acting as a beacon for the adds.
Unfortunately I've never had a group with one of each class to really test it.
Unfortunatly another good call, we had run this a few dozen times so the passive attitude may have def been just faceroll and stand there, and 3 of us had a pretty decent gear lvl for the runs, BUT everyone stood in red stuff constantly, what I think is this, if you watch the dps, they all use their movement abilities IE blink/dodge/sprint on CD to feel faster, so everytime we engage anything they are out of Stamina to roll/evade, could be super wrong, just what ive been seeing, we want to be able to pull so fast these days that no one bothers going in to the pull ready, sorta like my older videos where peopel were upset i didnt use my daily abilities on cooldown <----LOL -Timecop
Actually, you get a level 60 purple nightmare weapon. Best weapon in-game but maybe not so much stat wise.. they don't really give the stats you want for your build lol.
That's ridiculous how fast the leveling is...
Interesting. Doesn't say that in description.
"Perfecting the art of being a meatshield since 1998"
Banners of the Light
Overall the game is very fun and I'm sticking with my GF as it appeals to me more than the GWF for tanking. I am sure there will be some changes coming to the dungeon tuning once this game is out in the wild and the community is expanded. My recommendation would be to stick with GWF if you're on the fence about tanking until the dust settles.
Thanks for posting the video!
can you share your build please? what skills you are using etc.
the weapon is around the Unicorn/Drake Seal level. The Unicorn Weapon cost 90 tokens and we're getting about 8-12 per run (not including any bonus from the Dungeon Delve event). With the weapon I had to equip a few Lv60 greens to have enough of a gear score to enter.
Our group, with one of each class, learned quickly that the Guardian enters combat first and we kinda wait a few seconds before attacking. The Guardian stays on the Elite/Boss the whole fight while the Great Weapon tanks the adds. The Rogue and Wizard both focus on adds and when all adds are down they return to the boss.
I've queued and entered an elite dungeon without a GF or GWF. 3 rogues did fine because the extra damage was there.
Ability Scores || All Attribute Roll Combinations || My Cleric Stream \o/
are you kidding me??? you actually have TO DO something in this game and cannot just stand there and mash the same button over and over???? WHAT A CRAPP GAME