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So here's a question about getting people to play your content

drakedge2drakedge2 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
edited August 2013 in The Foundry
I have labored many many hours over the quests that I have built. The system though seems to favor people who had access to the foundry tools back during and before the beta weekends. Always placing their quests at the top of the list, keeping their ratings and reviews from the previous betas as well.

How then is a new author supposed to get people to play their content?

I have tried forum posts, sitting in the enclave asking people to try it out and send me their feedback, and other such things?

With the amount of hours I have put into my quests, it's a little disheartening to see things like "XxTrololo ArenaxX" being posted after my content and getting hundreds of plays before mine reaches even 20 plays.
8IxArUQf.jpg
A story driven quest, with a fun and challenging amount of combat, that takes you into the world of Planescape, carefully hand crafted by me.
Post edited by drakedge2 on

Comments

  • zovyazovya Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Marketing 101

    First, you need a fancy signature. Then you need to be more active, here and in the general forum. Your quest needs to sound interesting. Every post you make is a billboard.
  • hercooles130uscghercooles130uscg Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    And sometimes NONE of this will work. I worked on my first quest for close to 100 hours, I have had my project on the Alpha servers and BW servers for close to 2 months.

    I have no reviews, 9 plays and and only 3 of those nine rated. So sadly, until we get the more intuitive search and quest categorization features that the community has been demanding for some time now, whether or not you quest gets played is far more luck then anything you can do. To most people, if you quest is not in the first three pages of the listing, it might as well not exist.

    I have to look at it this way, making Foundry projects has to be number one about your own personal enjoyment. If you make it expecting that it will get played, then you will often be heartbroken. If make content because you enjoy the creativity, and as long as just a few friends end up playing it, then you will have fun. If the quest takes off and is popular, then that is a bonus.

    Also, alot of this is due to the players. While the foundry is at its BEST when authors make engaging, well written and indepth quests, most MMO players these days just want the "lolz easy xp reading sux" quests, and that is why those types of mind numbing combat intensive, zero story quests seem so popular. Think of a story driven, or even a good mixed combat/story quest as a niche. They rarely get the plays that these combat driven quests will get. I think one of the best rated (and even spotlighted quests) in Alpha/BW4 was a very very generic light story quests, but a TON of mobs to kill, talking 70+ drow in one map. That is what most MMO players want. The best XP per hour and no reading.

    Like I said, enjoy the act of putting your stories into a unique medium, ignore the masses that just want kill kill kill, and take pleasure that even if just two or three players enjoyed your quest, then you did it right.
    bdayaffair_zps6675e60e.png
  • zovyazovya Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    One thing to point out however. Since the beginning of time, artists have had the problem of "mass appeal" There's going to be creations that you like, others like, and most people like. You can't create fringe material and expect it to have mass appeal. Not blaming anyone of that, just making an example.

    What I'm trying to say is, have fun. If you like creating stories, then do it for that. Anything else is bonus. Game developers have money on the line, mass appeal is important to them. Is that where you want to be? They have schools for that.
  • areanna2areanna2 Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    drakedge2 wrote: »
    I have labored many many hours over the quests that I have built. The system though seems to favor people who had access to the foundry tools back during and before the beta weekends. Always placing their quests at the top of the list, keeping their ratings and reviews from the previous betas as well.

    How then is a new author supposed to get people to play their content?

    I have tried forum posts, sitting in the enclave asking people to try it out and send me their feedback, and other such things?

    With the amount of hours I have put into my quests, it's a little disheartening to see things like "XxTrololo ArenaxX" being posted after my content and getting hundreds of plays before mine reaches even 20 plays.

    They should have removed all foundry ratings from before the game went live with heroes of the north pack, and started everyone off same to be fair.
    I can see where people that have their ratings remaining from earlier betas might disagree, but in all fairness all should have been wiped!
  • drakedge2drakedge2 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I agree with that. I am not saying I do not enjoy those quests and adventures made during the closed foundry beta, but it set them up with a vastly unfair advantage over the newer authors who only just recently were able to access the tools.
    8IxArUQf.jpg
    A story driven quest, with a fun and challenging amount of combat, that takes you into the world of Planescape, carefully hand crafted by me.
  • hercooles130uscghercooles130uscg Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    drakedge2 wrote: »
    I agree with that. I am not saying I do not enjoy those quests and adventures made during the closed foundry beta, but it set them up with a vastly unfair advantage over the newer authors who only just recently were able to access the tools.

    I agree as well. I was in the Alpha test of the Foundry and I am stuck with bad reviews because they tended to break the Foundry quests a lot with patches, which was reflected in ratings. A lot of people had this issue. So we are being graded on content that was made during a TESTING period when the Foundry tools were in constant flux. After every major patch, it was a rush to find what they broke and fix it before the next round of testing.
    bdayaffair_zps6675e60e.png
  • drakedge2drakedge2 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    See, perfect reason to have the ratings reset. It benefits those that were in foundry beta and had their quests broken during the beta, and it helps the new authors here at the release of the game. Win / Win if you ask me.

    As it is right now, the average player won't find a new Author's content, not with those that have been around since before the rest of us could even touch the tools sit with thousands of plays and reviews, and thus always ontop of the chart. and readily seen by players looking at their "L" screen.
    8IxArUQf.jpg
    A story driven quest, with a fun and challenging amount of combat, that takes you into the world of Planescape, carefully hand crafted by me.
  • zovyazovya Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Even if they reset the the ratings at release, I doubt it would have changed much. They would have already had polished content ready on day one. While the new guys would have to spend many hours to get something equivalent published. Like keeping your beta character actually.

    But I can see why Cryptic wanted the content for release. I also agree that the alpha testers get rewarded for their hours of testing and hard work.
  • tilt42tilt42 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    There's an important thing some of you are forgetting here: Cryptic is trying to make a good first impression. We authors are a small minority in the grand scheme of things, and as long as we don't get too hurt, it's okay to let us be second-rate players in some ways (and first-rate in others. It goes both ways). I think Cryptic first and foremost wanted a sorted list of Foundry quests at launch that were already proven successes. If players booted up the game on launch day, tried the first Foundry quests in the list and discovered that they weren't all that good, they might never try a Foundry quest again. Closed Beta was quality control in more ways than one, and while this does give us Silverstars and Moonstars an advantage, it's one that hopefully will be evened out over time. As of right now, we shouldn't expect the quests at the bottom of the list to be played at all. People are playing from the top to the bottom for the most part, or so I would expect. They'll get further down the list, but we're still only on day 4. Patience, people!

    My first quest, which was featured and reviewed very well in BW3 and 4, was barely played at all in the first two days after the Headstart launch, while the ones above me (and there weren't all that many of them) got tons and tons of plays. Yesterday however, my quests suddenly started getting a considerable boost in plays, and now I'm enjoying a constant stream of reviews and tips, lifting me back up in the lists after having been shoved further and further down initially. I had to wait my turn, and while I realize that my turn came early, this is what we can expect right now. Of course, you can skip the queue if you've got a good quest and can somehow entice a few dozen people to review your quest early. This will boost you well up the list very quickly.
  • drakedge2drakedge2 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I see it both ways too. Having labored in the foundry now myself, I really do appreciate the hard work of other Authors. I can see that Cryptic would want quests listed on their featured page or what have you, but the system is set up to make the "rich get richer" so to speak.

    It would be cool if they had a couple slides there on the opening page of the "L" key window. Like have a "Featured" - "Newly created counts for dailies" kind of preview tab, so that new authors and old authors are featured on the front page.
    8IxArUQf.jpg
    A story driven quest, with a fun and challenging amount of combat, that takes you into the world of Planescape, carefully hand crafted by me.
  • agentjasporagentjaspor Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Silverstars Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Good conversation. I expect two things can and will help this situation:

    1) Cryptic continuing their "Featured" program on a regular basis will potentially give unknown quests and authors a chance in the spotlight.
    2) What is the "For Review" tab for? It's been blank any time I've looked at it. Is it broken? If they make use of this properly, it gives players looking for a "hidden gem" somewhere to look.

    I'm also thinking of there's a better way for us to help ourselves. Maybe something like a "Hey, if you play mine, I'll play yours!" type program. I know some people have sort of informally done this, but I think there are still some frustrated people here who can help one another with a little bit of organization.
  • drakedge2drakedge2 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I always try to play the quests of people that post in my forum chat, or such. After spending a ton of hours in the foundry (im in the foundry as I type this lol) I really appreciate the hard work other Authors put into their quests.
    8IxArUQf.jpg
    A story driven quest, with a fun and challenging amount of combat, that takes you into the world of Planescape, carefully hand crafted by me.
  • areanna2areanna2 Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    zovya wrote: »
    Even if they reset the the ratings at release, I doubt it would have changed much. They would have already had polished content ready on day one. While the new guys would have to spend many hours to get something equivalent published. Like keeping your beta character actually.

    But I can see why Cryptic wanted the content for release. I also agree that the alpha testers get rewarded for their hours of testing and hard work.

    There are plenty of other ways they could have rewarded alpha testers without unfairly impacting new foundry authors!
  • zaphtasticzaphtastic Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Silverstars Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I have written about 40k characters on this subject before (link), I won't repeat all of it here. But yes, this is an area I am really passionate about... have been since I made my first story arc in COH (mid-2009).

    Condensed version: yes, as the system is right now, seniority is an almost insurmountable bonus. Us alpha/beta testers start with a great advantage, and 'headstarters' start with a smaller (but still noticable) advantage. Authors coming late to the party may as well forget about getting their content played (unless they get featured, and the chances of that are.. slim). Featuring is an attempt to spotlight the best of the best. Putting aside the matter of the live team's preferences, this is basically a small team of devs hand-picking 1-2 quests out of tens of thousands per week/month (and you have to ask the question: how are they going to handle the 'submit for featuring' backlog when it grows out of control?).. and that's going to favor other established authors who've already had tons of time to get better at the Foundry and received plenty of feedback for their other content so that they can improve their next quest. Chances are, your first quest will not get featured (talking about a time when there are thousands of quests competing for 'featured' status, of course). As for marketing: it'll maybe get you a handful of plays, unless you really pull out all the stops.

    So why isn't this a game-ending issue and why haven't the devs poured thousands of man-hours into this in COH and in STO (I won't mention NW, since the game hasn't even launched yet)? The answer is simple: the payoff isn't worth the cost.

    Consider that from a player's POV, having a group of stable 'known good' quests in the browser (even if it's the same 100 quests over 10 years) is much better than having a vast sea of uncertainty. Most players aren't going to be Foundry fiends; they may play a handful of quests during their account's lifetime (and those are likely to be the max-reward min-effort quests). I seriously doubt even the most hardcore Foundry enthusiast (excepting dedicated reviewers, maybe) is going to play more than 200 quests over their account's entire life. There'll be more than a hundred times that many quests after the first month, so it makes sense that everyone wants to play the best of the best and ignore the rest. Yes, the list is going to be stale, and it's going to be impossible to break in. No, this doesn't actually matter to most of the playerbase. Especially when you consider that there'll be a few quests spotlighted every week/month, keeping the content somewhat fresh (and keeping up with the heavier Foundry consumer's needs) and showing that the Foundry is making great content.


    And here's a but, that's actually a pretty big BUT. The devs are aware of this, and they promised there'll be some big changes coming in this area (from a functional tag system to incentivization of playing less-known content). They've posted about this multiple times. When (or if you really want to be cynical, if) these features will be implemented is up in the air, but I think there are bigger problems on their plate right now anyway.
  • bblondiabblondia Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 31
    edited April 2013
    To all foundry authors. Please don't stop. I've only done a few foundry quests and have been focusing primarily on mainline quest stuff. BUT.you guys are the reason I think I'll play this game for a long time. Endless content. Yay. Homemade PnP games were some of the most fun because it was amazing to see someone invest time and care into something for me to experience. I eventually will develop as well I think but for now I'm playing. And I just wanted to say I think you guys and girls are awesome. GIDDYUP and cheers to you for investing your time to make my game experience better. Thanks and happy hunting.
  • drakedge2drakedge2 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Thank you Bblondia =)
    8IxArUQf.jpg
    A story driven quest, with a fun and challenging amount of combat, that takes you into the world of Planescape, carefully hand crafted by me.
  • thunderspankerthunderspanker Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Silverstars Posts: 713 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    thanx! I dont agree with getting an unfair advantage, except with respect to time, and having something done. As far as ratings go, mine is adjusted to three.. even with all five star reviews just about. I actually have a disadvantage, as previously described, from being a tester, as the crappy ratings i got for testing it stuck with it. Of course, now it is pretty awesome, but when you are in that stage of your quest development, it would have been nice to have a ton of quests to buffer it, so they wouldnt have played it and gave it 1 star, cuz i was messing with invisible walls...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Himmelville - Are you easily frightened?
    Click Here


    On one side of the mountain, there were bones...
  • weehawk101weehawk101 Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Lair of The Lizard King
    @Mithandrel
    NW-DCJAT109U
    Mindflayer


    The note scribbled on a crude map speaks of a cave that leads to a mountainous rain forest know as Jangala, where, amidst the over grown ruins of a forgotten time, the lizard king Bonecrown and his minions have made their home. The entrance to the Kings lair is rumored to be a crowned skull carved into the mountainside. Your contact also told you that an archeologist, Finton Blic, left yesterday in search of the lost City of Jangala... lets hope you can catch him before he runs into the Bonecrown Tribe! He has the only known map to Bonecrowns lair.

    V1.B


    This is my first foundry quest, 80+ hours in the making. This was a blank large map totally custom, no populate was used everything was placed by hand. I kept the over all adventure simple and went for atmosphere instead of walls of text. I hope I did a good enough job on the aesthetic so that it visually tells a story.

    I need players to test it for revision, so any feedback is good.
    If you enjoyed it please rate it, if you didn't please take the time to send me a message in game, with any thoughts or bugs you find. Thank you for your time, and enjoy!

    More about me here: www.pliaconis.com

    Below are some teaser shots of the Jangala region prior to reaching the Lair of Bonecrown!

    [IMG][/img]Untitled-2_zps3bcbb55c.jpg

    [IMG][/img]Untitled-6_zps166414a7.jpg

    [IMG][/img]Untitled-7_zps5da8b568.jpg

    [IMG][/img]Untitled-8_zps6952ba8d.jpg
  • klixanklixan Member Posts: 447 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2013
    I'm a very strange person, I know this and I freely admit it. I make foundry missions just for myself. These are the type of missions that I personally want to play, so I don't really care if other people play or even like them. I like them and that's all that matters.

    Anyway, I don't advertise my missions, in fact, I don't even publish them under this name. Yet people have been playing them and I'm getting both good reviews and tips (which I never, ever expected!).

    The only thing I can think of to account for this, is the search tags I've added to the descriptions. I know for myself, that whenever I'm looking for a new foundry mission to play, I type in search words that appeal to me. It looks like other people do too.

    Anyway, here are some of the search terms I use (and look for): Easy, Solo, Daily, Cleric, Story, Single.

    It doesn't hurt to add particular features from your mission either. For instance, if your mission is set in a crypt with lots of zombies, then I'd add Crypt and Zombie to the search tags as well.

    I think one of the worst thing Author's can do, is to not add a good description to their missions.

    'This is my mission. I hope you like it' isn't going to get you noticed (or found).

    'This is an easy mission, designed for solo players. It's set in a crypt with lots of zombies to kill' will probably get you more attention and more search hits. Because people who are looking for that type of mission will be able to find it.

    Well, that seems to be my experience anyway. Hope it works for you too. Best of luck.
  • klixanklixan Member Posts: 447 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2013
    @weehawk101 your mission intrigues me. Your level design looks wonderful! But this is a good example of what I mean, when I say Author's aren't descriptive enough (Please, please, please don't take offense weehawk101. I'm really not having a go at you).

    Your story introduction is excellent, it's hooked me and I'm curious to know more. But I'm not sure if this is the type of mission I'll enjoy. Is it designed for group play or solo? Is it easy or challenging? Are there puzzles? What type of enemies will I face (are they standard or hard?).

    This is the type of information that's very important to me. At the moment, the only search tags you have are Cave, Rain Forest, Lizard and City. If people aren't looking for those particular words, then they won't find your mission.

    But as compensation for singling you out, I will play your mission and review it :)
  • karitrkaritr Member Posts: 662 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2013
    klixan wrote: »
    Your story introduction is excellent, it's hooked me and I'm curious to know more.

    Personally, these are the types of description I prefer in the Overview. I really only need disclaimers if something isn't solo-friendly and to be fair there are very few 'group' quests that aren't labelled as such (or at least that is my, admittedly limited, perception as a L60 CW).

    However, in four days we will see the new player tag system implemented, I can't wait to use it and it looks like it will be really helpful for you klixan, and players like you who search using tags.
    Roleplay
    Puzzle
    Lore
    Humor
    Exploration
    Story Focus
    Combat Focus
    Solo
    Group
    Adjustable Difficulty
    Challenging
    Eventful
    Unusual


    To get this necro'd thread back on topic - and weehawk, you really need to make a separate thread for your quest - while I hope the tag system leads to some improvement in what gets shown when we search, I would still love to see a database of all quests, either on the official database, or via the Gateway.

    While we may not have as much invested, the lack of choice available via the in-game catalogue is disappointing to players too.
  • klixanklixan Member Posts: 447 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2013
    Weehawk101 check your inbox, I've sent you a PM. I agree with Karitr, you need to make a seperate thread for your mission. It's absolutely incredible and people need to see it.
  • eldartheldarth Member Posts: 4,494 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Don't discount Cryptic's Foundry contests as well. I had an incredibly fun time creating something for the Tower District contest recently and although my quest wasn't quite ready for prime-time it has since solidified into something I can be proud of creating. And due to the contest, I got a dozen or so plays and 7 or 8 reviews. Having so few plays/reviews I, of course, managed to capture last place - no doubt helped into the cellar by an "lolz kill things get loot" ADD kid that gave me the incredibly detailed and helpful "too slow, didn't like it" review. The other 4 and 5 star reviews were at least helpful in polishing it.

    I'm having too much fun just "playing" Foundry to care too much if people play or not. If people enjoy them, that's icing on the cake.

    I need more quest slots as well - even though I've only got four "published," I've got 5 more in various stages of development.
    So enjoy the creative process, and welcome to "Playing with Foundry" - a game within a game.
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