sammadcowMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
Hi Unspecified,
First off thanks for the time you've taken to test and compile all the information on your builds. I had a question regarding your 2.0 build. If you were to take points out of Restoration Mastery as you said you considered in the video, would it be worth considering Power of Oppression (targets affected by Astral Seal do less damage) over Invigorated Healing. Sort of damage prevention vs. healing? Your insight would be appreciated. Thanks
Just wondered what your opinion on Sooth "bug fix"
I haven't really tried it. It sounds like either a 'bug fix' or it is a bug. I don't actually run with Sooth at all though. The groups I tend to run with I really don't have aggro problems. There's a couple GFs that keep aggro off me on the harder hitting mobs and the CWs I run with (usually only 1 per run, sometimes 2) are really good at CC'ing the small stuff. I'm not sure I could really 'test' it since I don't have a problem to fix.
could you test the combo break the spirit divine > brand of the sun > forgemasters divine > prophecy of doom divine > lance of faith spam and for daily hammer of fate all with insight and foresight xD it seems to me like a fun combo to burn down high resistant targets maybe even in 1v1 pvp specially vs rogue idk just seems fun xD please make a video of it? ^^
*snipped*
you said you would test prophecy of doom, are you gonna give us an estimate number of prophecies fulfilled for it to full your action points bar at rank3?
Yes that combo would work well, though I'd never remove AS from my bar in PvP and only in a dungeon where there's a second cleric and a good group. Prophecy of Doom is the one I'd scrap. In PvP I do run BtS, FF, and AS for encounters and BotS and Sacred Flame for At-Wills. I just don't like Lance of Faith.
Prophecy of Doom was something I experimented with but I dropped it because it was too difficult to time casting to get the AP and fast recharge. If you mess up it's a near 20 second CD. I just found Daunting Light or Divine Glow (kind of buggy, can lower DPS) to be more reliable AP generators and they do more damage overall because of AoE. PoD is also near useless on a lot of boss fights. I've removed all points from it and won't be going back to it. It may just be I suck at using it though for me that's a good enough reason to drop it.
If you were to take points out of Restoration Mastery as you said you considered in the video, would it be worth considering Power of Oppression (targets affected by Astral Seal do less damage) over Invigorated Healing. Sort of damage prevention vs. healing? Your insight would be appreciated. Thanks
First, I AM taking points out of Restoration Mastery. I haven't done it yet, but I've decided I'm definitely going to when I respec again (yes I'll make a video, but the spec is heavily gear dependent so not a good general build).
As for Power of Oppression, (I'm going to assume the tooltip is accurate here) it's value is heavily based on YOU and you play. If you are terrible at keeping Astral Seal up on multiple targets at all times then it is a fairly weak feat. If you are really good at keeping ASeal up on multiple targets then it's actually really strong. Unlike some other things that have variable effects (e.g. Restoration Mastery) it's a flat 5% damage reduction which is pretty huge. Though in a large mob of enemies if you only have ASeal on 1 target it's not making a huge difference, but if it's only 10 targets then that is a big deal.
I definitely think it's a worthy feat to take and I may end up taking it myself. I've been experimenting with the Brand of the Sun and Astral Seal combo for my At Will powers (deistik talked about it for divinity building) and I'm actually really liking it, in dungeons only though. Which means I'm mostly spamming ASeal, so it's just a matter of swapping targets. Whether I take it or not has a lot to do with my theory-crafted gear dependent spec I haven't tested yet (don't have all the gear yet).
After Watching your Cleric Build 2.0 video, you mentioned respecing one more time. I really just want to be able to be the best support cleric that i can have, so i get really confused all these times you changed stuff around. Could you please post what would be the best support cleric setup that you have come up with? I'm not much into pvp, and more just into being that one cleric you really want on your team during dungeons to keep you alive. So yeah, just wondering what you believe to be the best cleric set up you have come across or made yourself for being the best supporter for dungeons.
you are right as + forge master is all you need really to fender off ppl and the good stun from bts and dmg helps killing them. i also tried pod and the worst problem is in really weak targets they die so fast you normally use pod and in the casting time they die so you dont apply the debuff but it goes on cd anyway and you have to wait 20 secs so it made itself useless. in stronger targets they seem to never want to die on time probably with a good premade that you can coordinate to help you focus certain targets may be better but even then they would probably be losing dps just waiting everytime you drop the pod, and you may still lose it even then. just a meh spell imo. but ye probably we are just bad at it xD
After Watching your Cleric Build 2.0 video, you mentioned respecing one more time. I really just want to be able to be the best support cleric that i can have, so i get really confused all these times you changed stuff around. Could you please post what would be the best support cleric setup that you have come up with? I'm not much into pvp, and more just into being that one cleric you really want on your team during dungeons to keep you alive. So yeah, just wondering what you believe to be the best cleric set up you have come across or made yourself for being the best supporter for dungeons.
The build I posted in my 2.0 video is a very solid build. I would strongly consider the Restoration Mastery I mention. I stand by both builds I've posted as viable, though I feel the second is slightly superior because of the divinity gain feats I picked up. I've cleared everything but the final boss of Castle Never and The Dread Vault (never even tried it) with the second build I posted and it works wonderfully.
One thing I have learned though is your power selection and ability matters far more than your feats. We have a few staple feats: Repurpose Soul, Cleanse, Benefit of Foresight (in my opinion), and then the 2 divinity builders from the bottom tree. If you grab those You've already go at solid build and other things are optional/preference.
My respeccing has little to do with my build being bad and more to do with me being a theory crafter. I'm never happy with my build if there's even a slight hint of doubt about the usefulness of something in or out of the build. I've respecced about 10 times since I hit 60. I only make videos when I feel I've got a solid build.
The respec I mentioned above goes far beyond a few simple changes and is not something I can currently recommend to anyone. I have not tested it. I did not mean to confuse anyone. IF the build I'm considering works it will only really work if you have very specific, and in many cases expensive/rare, gear. It will be something I post as a build to aim for but it would be a very sub-par build to use while trying to actually get the gear you need to make it work.
To give you a rough idea I'm not even halfway to the gear I need for my new build and I've already spent around 20 million AD on what I have so far, then there's the drops on top of that. If that sounds like an obscene amount of AD to you and you can't imagine getting it without spending money (which I haven't in weeks) or years worth of time then this won't be the build for you.
I just finished to watch your video and I'll definitely build my cleric as shown, but there's something I don't understand: why no point in Deepstone Blessing?
I can give a lot of temporary HPs to my group via Sacred Flame, so why skip the +10% bonus healing?
Is there some obscure mechanic at work which hinders the gain from this feat or am I missing something?
I just finished to watch your video and I'll definitely build my cleric as shown, but there's something I don't understand: why no point in Deepstone Blessing?
Temp hitpoints actually have a pretty low uptime even with sacred flame spam. One hit and they're gone. Ednuring Relief currently procs off Astral Seal (probably a bug) and it also procs when you cast Astral Shield and Forgemaster's Flame (our 2 best heals). It just has more uptime.
I noticed you are dead...alot...due to the games inadequate use of agro and the way tanks are broken
If you're talking about my videos, ummm twice in Cloak Tower is hardly "alot" and both deaths were the direct result of me doing something stupid, not game mechanics. Also we had no tank on the runs I've posted so far.
If you're someone I've run with in game, that really depends on the run how often I go down. Usually it's, again, the result of me doing something stupid (over-pulling, failing to manage divinity, not getting out of the red, being tired and walking off a ledge, etc...). Not the game mechanics being bad. Lovely things like the potion bug where it goes on CD but doesn't heal you also cause deaths, but that isn't an aggro issue. I also run ahead and pull things a lot, I don't make our tanks life easy. When he wants aggro and I want to let him have aggro he gets it without much problem.
Temp hitpoints actually have a pretty low uptime even with sacred flame spam. One hit and they're gone. Ednuring Relief currently procs off Astral Seal (probably a bug) and it also procs when you cast Astral Shield and Forgemaster's Flame (our 2 best heals). It just has more uptime.
I have to admit I never actualy paid attention to temp hps uptime, what I noticed is they do not absorb a lot of damage, but I thought spamming SF would reapply the buff quickly enought to make Deepstone Blessing a better choice since it's also twice as potent than Enduring Relief.
Even if it were the case as I progress through levels I spend more and more time kiting adds and I can't spam at wills
Btw, can you tell me how did you get armor "trasmutated"? I just have dark armor of lolth, but didn't know you can transmutate it. How?
Select the armour you want the stats for, right-click it and choose "Change appearance", on the left goes the armour you want stats for, on the right the armour you want the looks for. Pay some astral diamonds and change, and voil
"Bring me my Bow of burning gold;
Bring me my Arrows of desire:
Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold!
Bring me my Chariot of fire!"
Hiya, Unspecified! Still using your 2.0 build with very few modifications! However, I'm still curious about your musings about the power over critical or vice versa stance. I've tried stacking power instead of critical (using the Sacred Hand's set, radiant enchantments instead of azure), and I'm at about 2450 critical and some 4600-4700 power. I'm a bit disheartened about how much power it takes for very minor improvements to the Astral Shield heal, there seems to be a very hard diminishing returns in place on power too. What are your experiences, and are you still experimenting with power over critical?
"Bring me my Bow of burning gold;
Bring me my Arrows of desire:
Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold!
Bring me my Chariot of fire!"
0
trasidMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited May 2013
I just hit 60, and am looking to buy a respec however I don't want to go for one and it gets changed soon after. Can you say that your latest video (with the explained changes) will remain for a while or are you working on something new?
Hiya, Unspecified! Still using your 2.0 build with very few modifications! However, I'm still curious about your musings about the power over critical or vice versa stance. I've tried stacking power instead of critical (using the Sacred Hand's set, radiant enchantments instead of azure), and I'm at about 2450 critical and some 4600-4700 power. I'm a bit disheartened about how much power it takes for very minor improvements to the Astral Shield heal, there seems to be a very hard diminishing returns in place on power too. What are your experiences, and are you still experimenting with power over critical?
A guild mate and I have been trying to figure out the math. As near as we can figure 25 power adds +1 weapon damage, basically the listed "+<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> damage and healing bonus" adds directly to weapon power at a 1-1 ratio. Different abilities then have weapon power coefficients. Astral Shield's heal for example seems to be around a 0.5 coefficient so 2 weapon damage is 1 health per tick (I haven't really done the math yet, this is an estimate). Coefficients seem to be strongly linked to the CD of an ability.
My general opinion is that Power is a great stat to dump spare stats into if you have nothing else you want increased because you've hit DR but I really don't like the idea of stacking it.
I just hit 60, and am looking to buy a respec however I don't want to go for one and it gets changed soon after. Can you say that your latest video (with the explained changes) will remain for a while or are you working on something new?
Currently I still run the build in my second video. I haven't actually made those changes I mentioned because I'm too cheap to do it right now.
I am working on something new but it is still very experimental and may fail horribly. It is very gear dependent though and wouldn't work if you don't have the specific gear to back it up (I'm using 2 level 55 blues). I need to get a few more pieces of gear then slot a few enchants. I will be posting that build up, if it works, when I get it up and running and tested. If I was to level a new cleric I would stick with the 2.0 build, with the mentioned changes, then farm up the gear for my build I'm working on (if it works).
I used a respec token yesterday on my Cleric and picked your build unspecifiederror. So far so good, I'm pretty happy. Only my base stats are now 20 str, 21 wis and 19 cha, but that should be ok I think.
A guild mate and I have been trying to figure out the math.
[...]
My general opinion is that Power is a great stat to dump spare stats into if you have nothing else you want increased because you've hit DR but I really don't like the idea of stacking it.
You, sir, are extraordinary, thank you for your answer, it's just what I needed to know!
"Bring me my Bow of burning gold;
Bring me my Arrows of desire:
Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold!
Bring me my Chariot of fire!"
excusesMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
@quttidebachi
"Tank Cleric Guide by Unspecifiederror with videos (updated)" it was already there just with another name, links to this post
0
spl0itzMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited May 2013
Am I the only one that hates guides that just links to videos? Would rather read a nice, formatted post rather than have to sit through videos trying to skip around to specific information.
0
moseslkhMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Am I the only one that hates guides that just links to videos? Would rather read a nice, formatted post rather than have to sit through videos trying to skip around to specific information.
If people made the effort to produce a guide and made the effort spending time to experiment with skills and builds, the least you can do is thank them.
Or if you find yourself not the only one hating video guides, you can always help the others by producing a written guide of your own.
0
rangorvixMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 19Arc User
edited May 2013
Hi Unspecified, great job on the guides and I have a question about feats, as I am level 32 and have been planning ahead (and still loving the cleric)
For the most part I am planning on spec like your last build (as of writing this) more-or-less, but am considering the Power of Oppression feats in the Righteous path over, perhaps, Invigorated Healing. I tend to spam astral seal around a lot when little else to do and don't have a good 2nd at-will yet - but will get Brand of the Sun soon most likely. Anyway, the damage mitigation seems nice, though I worry that my healing will suffer from not taking something like Invigorated healing, or linked spirit (diminishing returns on most stats concerns me a bit with this 1, like restoration mastery). I am even starting to consider if I should take Mark of Mending for the extra healing from Healers lore and recovery to power.
Ho-hum, so many choices, so many questions bouncing around the inside of my skull;)
Any thoughts or input you may have would be appreciated.
0
realsk2011Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
Is it possible to get a forum layout for this build similar to say Luna's TR Build Guide?
Doh, I've been following version 1 of your build and now I feel like a lost child since you uploaded version 2
I've actually respecced since the 2.0 build. Both builds still work but I've settled on my regen tank build as my final build for this character (working on an experiment/alt now).
I've edited the OP to reflect this and provide links my other thread in the cleric subforum.
Comments
First off thanks for the time you've taken to test and compile all the information on your builds. I had a question regarding your 2.0 build. If you were to take points out of Restoration Mastery as you said you considered in the video, would it be worth considering Power of Oppression (targets affected by Astral Seal do less damage) over Invigorated Healing. Sort of damage prevention vs. healing? Your insight would be appreciated. Thanks
I haven't really tried it. It sounds like either a 'bug fix' or it is a bug. I don't actually run with Sooth at all though. The groups I tend to run with I really don't have aggro problems. There's a couple GFs that keep aggro off me on the harder hitting mobs and the CWs I run with (usually only 1 per run, sometimes 2) are really good at CC'ing the small stuff. I'm not sure I could really 'test' it since I don't have a problem to fix.
Yes that combo would work well, though I'd never remove AS from my bar in PvP and only in a dungeon where there's a second cleric and a good group. Prophecy of Doom is the one I'd scrap. In PvP I do run BtS, FF, and AS for encounters and BotS and Sacred Flame for At-Wills. I just don't like Lance of Faith.
Prophecy of Doom was something I experimented with but I dropped it because it was too difficult to time casting to get the AP and fast recharge. If you mess up it's a near 20 second CD. I just found Daunting Light or Divine Glow (kind of buggy, can lower DPS) to be more reliable AP generators and they do more damage overall because of AoE. PoD is also near useless on a lot of boss fights. I've removed all points from it and won't be going back to it. It may just be I suck at using it though for me that's a good enough reason to drop it.
First, I AM taking points out of Restoration Mastery. I haven't done it yet, but I've decided I'm definitely going to when I respec again (yes I'll make a video, but the spec is heavily gear dependent so not a good general build).
As for Power of Oppression, (I'm going to assume the tooltip is accurate here) it's value is heavily based on YOU and you play. If you are terrible at keeping Astral Seal up on multiple targets at all times then it is a fairly weak feat. If you are really good at keeping ASeal up on multiple targets then it's actually really strong. Unlike some other things that have variable effects (e.g. Restoration Mastery) it's a flat 5% damage reduction which is pretty huge. Though in a large mob of enemies if you only have ASeal on 1 target it's not making a huge difference, but if it's only 10 targets then that is a big deal.
I definitely think it's a worthy feat to take and I may end up taking it myself. I've been experimenting with the Brand of the Sun and Astral Seal combo for my At Will powers (deistik talked about it for divinity building) and I'm actually really liking it, in dungeons only though. Which means I'm mostly spamming ASeal, so it's just a matter of swapping targets. Whether I take it or not has a lot to do with my theory-crafted gear dependent spec I haven't tested yet (don't have all the gear yet).
The build I posted in my 2.0 video is a very solid build. I would strongly consider the Restoration Mastery I mention. I stand by both builds I've posted as viable, though I feel the second is slightly superior because of the divinity gain feats I picked up. I've cleared everything but the final boss of Castle Never and The Dread Vault (never even tried it) with the second build I posted and it works wonderfully.
One thing I have learned though is your power selection and ability matters far more than your feats. We have a few staple feats: Repurpose Soul, Cleanse, Benefit of Foresight (in my opinion), and then the 2 divinity builders from the bottom tree. If you grab those You've already go at solid build and other things are optional/preference.
My respeccing has little to do with my build being bad and more to do with me being a theory crafter. I'm never happy with my build if there's even a slight hint of doubt about the usefulness of something in or out of the build. I've respecced about 10 times since I hit 60. I only make videos when I feel I've got a solid build.
The respec I mentioned above goes far beyond a few simple changes and is not something I can currently recommend to anyone. I have not tested it. I did not mean to confuse anyone. IF the build I'm considering works it will only really work if you have very specific, and in many cases expensive/rare, gear. It will be something I post as a build to aim for but it would be a very sub-par build to use while trying to actually get the gear you need to make it work.
To give you a rough idea I'm not even halfway to the gear I need for my new build and I've already spent around 20 million AD on what I have so far, then there's the drops on top of that. If that sounds like an obscene amount of AD to you and you can't imagine getting it without spending money (which I haven't in weeks) or years worth of time then this won't be the build for you.
I can give a lot of temporary HPs to my group via Sacred Flame, so why skip the +10% bonus healing?
Is there some obscure mechanic at work which hinders the gain from this feat or am I missing something?
Temp hitpoints actually have a pretty low uptime even with sacred flame spam. One hit and they're gone. Ednuring Relief currently procs off Astral Seal (probably a bug) and it also procs when you cast Astral Shield and Forgemaster's Flame (our 2 best heals). It just has more uptime.
If you're talking about my videos, ummm twice in Cloak Tower is hardly "alot" and both deaths were the direct result of me doing something stupid, not game mechanics. Also we had no tank on the runs I've posted so far.
If you're someone I've run with in game, that really depends on the run how often I go down. Usually it's, again, the result of me doing something stupid (over-pulling, failing to manage divinity, not getting out of the red, being tired and walking off a ledge, etc...). Not the game mechanics being bad. Lovely things like the potion bug where it goes on CD but doesn't heal you also cause deaths, but that isn't an aggro issue. I also run ahead and pull things a lot, I don't make our tanks life easy. When he wants aggro and I want to let him have aggro he gets it without much problem.
I have to admit I never actualy paid attention to temp hps uptime, what I noticed is they do not absorb a lot of damage, but I thought spamming SF would reapply the buff quickly enought to make Deepstone Blessing a better choice since it's also twice as potent than Enduring Relief.
Even if it were the case as I progress through levels I spend more and more time kiting adds and I can't spam at wills
Thanks for the quick answer
Btw, can you tell me how did you get armor "trasmutated"? I just have dark armor of lolth, but didn't know you can transmutate it. How?
Bring me my Arrows of desire:
Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold!
Bring me my Chariot of fire!"
Bring me my Arrows of desire:
Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold!
Bring me my Chariot of fire!"
btw anybody knows if clerics cleanse dot dmg? like forgemaster or break the spirit?
A guild mate and I have been trying to figure out the math. As near as we can figure 25 power adds +1 weapon damage, basically the listed "+<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> damage and healing bonus" adds directly to weapon power at a 1-1 ratio. Different abilities then have weapon power coefficients. Astral Shield's heal for example seems to be around a 0.5 coefficient so 2 weapon damage is 1 health per tick (I haven't really done the math yet, this is an estimate). Coefficients seem to be strongly linked to the CD of an ability.
My general opinion is that Power is a great stat to dump spare stats into if you have nothing else you want increased because you've hit DR but I really don't like the idea of stacking it.
Currently I still run the build in my second video. I haven't actually made those changes I mentioned because I'm too cheap to do it right now.
I am working on something new but it is still very experimental and may fail horribly. It is very gear dependent though and wouldn't work if you don't have the specific gear to back it up (I'm using 2 level 55 blues). I need to get a few more pieces of gear then slot a few enchants. I will be posting that build up, if it works, when I get it up and running and tested. If I was to level a new cleric I would stick with the 2.0 build, with the mentioned changes, then farm up the gear for my build I'm working on (if it works).
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/Emrendil
<Rarely Sober> - Beholder
Bring me my Arrows of desire:
Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold!
Bring me my Chariot of fire!"
"Tank Cleric Guide by Unspecifiederror with videos (updated)" it was already there just with another name, links to this post
If people made the effort to produce a guide and made the effort spending time to experiment with skills and builds, the least you can do is thank them.
Or if you find yourself not the only one hating video guides, you can always help the others by producing a written guide of your own.
For the most part I am planning on spec like your last build (as of writing this) more-or-less, but am considering the Power of Oppression feats in the Righteous path over, perhaps, Invigorated Healing. I tend to spam astral seal around a lot when little else to do and don't have a good 2nd at-will yet - but will get Brand of the Sun soon most likely. Anyway, the damage mitigation seems nice, though I worry that my healing will suffer from not taking something like Invigorated healing, or linked spirit (diminishing returns on most stats concerns me a bit with this 1, like restoration mastery). I am even starting to consider if I should take Mark of Mending for the extra healing from Healers lore and recovery to power.
Ho-hum, so many choices, so many questions bouncing around the inside of my skull;)
Any thoughts or input you may have would be appreciated.
I've actually respecced since the 2.0 build. Both builds still work but I've settled on my regen tank build as my final build for this character (working on an experiment/alt now).
I've edited the OP to reflect this and provide links my other thread in the cleric subforum.
Here's a link to the thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?256552-Regen-Tank-Healer-Gear-choices-and-build
And Video: http://youtu.be/Gi-0mZoiV7M