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elderock67
Member Posts: 66 Arc User
So i have tried to use search function with no luck. Im an old D&D gamer and im use to Wisdom being the main attribute for a cleric. But i have read that under builds to Max out Charisma and Strength? If this is true, please enlighten this old man
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http://rockbottom.enjin.com
http://rockbottom.enjin.com
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Recovery and crit are just too much better than pure power. I'm probably looking at a 16/14/14 roll ending up with 18(Wis)/20(Cha)/22(Str) @ 60.
Also, STR makes no sense as the Crit stat for clerics, let's make it INT, please!
But yes, I tested the Cleric rather extensively, and for my playstyle I went STR/CHA focus as well.
Wisdom gives an increase to all Power, and a bonus to Healing as well. Power (and crit chance) increases both your offensive spell damage and defensive healing.
STR brings a bonus to crit chance and stamina
CHA brings a bonus to recovery (recharge time for encounter powers and AP gain for dailies) and... something else.
So I planned to start my Wisdom high, but assign all my attribute points to STR/CHA. At 60 you should be able to get something like 20/20/20.
I could definitely see a viable WIS/CON focus tho.
Most in the forums are claiming Recovery (cooldown reduction) to be more useful, but I disagree. I've already explained why so I won't do so again unless requested. You should build your Cleric how you want and find out for yourself what works best.
But I wanna double dip my recast and crit chance!!
But CHA is a fantastic stat, increasing recharge speed, action point gain and companion stat bonus, now companion stat bonus may not sound that important right now, but if you end up using a cat or a stone companion you gain their stats, so by having more CHA you will be increasing your overall stats too.
WIS I like because it stops me being controlled so often, increases both damage and healing by a flat % so you can have strong reliable numbers, it also stops enemy npc's resisting your control effects too which is always nice.
While my STR is going to be relatively low, it is not a stat to be under estimated especially when put in conjunction with WIS increasing critical hit chance both increases damage and healing output the stamina regen boost is fantastic especially in aoe heavy situations, and having a little extra damage over time resistance can help more so if you have not taken the cleanse trait (Every cleric should use this in all honesty)
At the end of the day, most stats mesh well with each other and a lot of it will depend on the skills you use such as encounter powers, at wills and daily's even your passives should be thought about before spending points, have a game plan and have a goal. If you're not worried about min-max however spend your points how you feel you'd like to send them and be happy and enjoy your self!
http://rockbottom.enjin.com
Unlike P&P D&D, you can't say "this is the rules we will be using for the entire campaign", when PWE/Cryptic patch the game, you immediately implement the new rules.
Please do expound. I am feeling less and less sure of what I should do at character creation now....
I choose $12.
I would make this choice every single time it was offered, because I have decided that $12 is better than $10.
$10 is still better than nothing, it isn't worthless; $10 is just worth less than $12.
Cool story bro. I take it that the implication is that Wisdom is worth ten dollars but STR and CHA are worth 12. But in order for your overly long and trite analogy to have value, you have to first prove the variables you use are equitable.
Metaphor and symbolism aside, there are merits to all the stats, including, and perhaps especially, wisdom.
Furthermore, if you never choose $10, it is in fact worthless to you. The option to pick it may as well not exist if it is never picked: it has the same value of $0, worthlessness.
personally I value 1% more effect than 1% more recharge, especially if you include lag among other things. DC get a lot of bonuses from talents for criting. i will be maining wisdom then placing my rest in cha. I prefer 1% recovery more than a 1% crit to do .75% of a heal. (Yes I understand some specs have benefits when you crit along with 15% of the spells effects when you crit will heal. I know those are big heals but I don't see that being better than more raw healing.
Math time!
if you value 1% crit over 1% raw power then assuming you spend 6str/2wis/6/cha vs 2/str/6wis/6/cha. Then I'll have 4*1.33=5.32% better healing vs 4% crit (at.75 efficiency so 4*.75= 3% better healing.
Total crit>pwr
4% crit
4% more stamina regeneration
4% more dot resistance.
vs
Pwr>crit
5.32% more healing
4% more damage
4% better cc
4% better resist cc
Obviously there will be more talents involved that make your crits better.
Repurpose Soul: makes it so your spells heal everything around for 15% more. (heroic feat)
Cycle of Change: makes it so your next encounter power is 2% better (stacks 5 times consumed on use) (Virtuous end tier)
Righteous Rage of Tempus: crit damage abilities generate 10% more divine power (Righteous first tier)
Restoration Mastery: Crit increases their Defense by 5% (huge) (Righteous second tier)
I'm going faithful the healing tree. I might split and put points to gain restoration. The only thing I get is Repurpose Soul which would make my crits (.75)+(1.75*.15*number of allies) more effective in a currently unknown range around the target.
Imo I'm going wis->str and human but that's just me.
From what I have read that is getting to the right path but can be more accurately stated thusly:
Someone offers to pay you 100 gold per month to join their campaign
Another person offers 25 gold a week to join them
That seems to be closer to the primary attributes debate.
Some say - ooh 25 gold x 4 = 100
So they are the same !
IN FACT THEY ARE NOT.
If you take the 25 gold weekly you actually get more each year than taking 100 gold monthly...
the difference is there, but to some.. it is un-noticeable.
It depends on how you spend your gold
When relating to stats - it will depend on your play-style.
High recovery goes for MORE casts (yet each one may be less powerful) - aka 25 g per week
High power goes for less casts (but each cast will be bigger) - aka 100 g per month.
BEST ONE !!??
Depends if you like to cast a lot, move a lot, etc.. many situations can change what is best.
Charisma is the only $12, Strength would be closer to $10. I haven't computed Strength versus Wisdom, only versus Intelligence. Further, the value of Strength is hard to compute because if it doesn't win purely on the critical chance, then you must assign an arbitrary value to stamina regeneration.
Your second paragraph is absolutely right. Every attribute has merit, none is worthless. Some have less merit than others (worth less, shall we say). I would never choose Dexterity over Wisdom, does that make Dexterity worthless? No, because if there existed only Dexterity and Wisdom and I could choose both, I would.
EDIT: To clarify so that no one gets offended, the comparison between Wisdom and Dexterity is only because I expect effectively everyone to value Wisdom over Dexterity, not because "Wisdom is so bad that it is basically Dexterity".
Interesting, I had actually discounted Restoration Mastery as having next to no value in PvE due to diminishing returns; I assumed that people taking relevant amounts of damage (tank) will have enough Defense that a 5% increase would be hit so hard by diminishing returns as to be irrelevant.
Also, I believe that you are selling Wisdom short in your calculations, my recollection is it benefits heals by 1.33% rather than 1%.
Seriously these analogies are horrible.
Just kidding . I do have a better (if not someone confused) understanding of how to go with my character. Charisma first then equate out the strength and wisdom if possible.
http://rockbottom.enjin.com
Actually, does this game allow critical heals?
Yes, critical hits are 1.75 times normal damage or healing. The exception to this is Half-Elves, which have a slightly higher multiplier.
Purely opinion. Whatever "testing" and "calculations" you may have done are unverifiable.
Late on the draw, but I feel it still must be said. And don't take offense, enough posts have been deleted over petty arguments. I'm simply stating my opinion. xD
I take no offense. In this day and age, if you got angry every time someone disagreed with a well-founded theory or even a formula, you would spend a lot of time angry; I have family that adamantly disagree on the number of weeks in a year and are both wrong.
Myself, I've never posted the formulas here, as it is something I will discuss with any hardcore PvE or PvP group I join, I do share some of the results. I do believe that enough has been posted by others to make a compelling case, though have seen no equations posted that prove the value of various attributes adjusted for feat choices.
MMOs are often about cookie-cutter playstyles.
Even if Charisma is $12 min/max stat - I would hope that individuals who prefer to max Wisdom instead will still find that to be an enjoyable approach.
It should be a matter of taste.
Recovery via CHA/INT is better when you are not waiting at all after an ability comes off CD.
Issues is, this is dynamic combat ... so you are not always using a power right off CD, like rotation-based MMOs
And as I stated in the other thread, it is the only thing you cannot gear for, as power scaling is terribly broken. You can balance less CHA/INT/STR with higher gear weights on recovery and critical rating.
Certainly as the OP points out, latency can make recovery less useful as well. I would say PvP would potentially be where you want more bang-per-cast as well.
CHA -> Combat Advantage + Recovery is a clear winner for dps specs however. Factor in the Tiefling passive and you have lots of multipliers going on.