There are reports coming in that my grandmother is a 250 pound bodybuilder.
There are reports coming in that the Eiffel Tower has fallen.
There are reports coming in that aliens have landed in Mexico.
See what I did there? Unless you can cite a credible source, I'm just going to wave this off as nothing important. And since every previous experience indicates otherwise, I have no reason to believe you.
This is exactly what ran through my head when I read the OP.
Gave in to that momentary sadistic twitch...
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projxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
CW and DC are beating TR in the damage amounts during dungeons because those numbers are overall damage done. Obviously, classes that do high AoE damage are going to beat out classes that do high single target damage.
Let's think of an example: There are 6 mobs grouped up. The TR throws off a skill and hits one of them for 6k. The CW throws off an AoE skill and hits all 6 for 2k. 2k x 6 = 12k. Seeing how they're passing TR in damage now? Striker role (which is what TR is) excels in single-target DPS, taking out the big guys quickly. Controller role (which is what CW is) excels in control skills and AoE damage, weakening all of the smaller guys.
I was thinking this as well... Boss dps is of much more importance than trash dps.
not so true when you have to break off attacking the boss to deal with a swarm of raging adds.
Probably a dps loss for them to do that and only really necessary if the other dps are having trouble with adds. Save add dps for dc cw gwf etc.
Gave in to that momentary sadistic twitch...
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xenobiusMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
Bottom line:
This game needs a proper, real-time DPS/damage dealt display. Recount, anyone?
The mechanic is already there, since it displays the numbers at the end of a dungeon, just a few tweaks and bingo.
Total damage done != effective DPS, and players who enjoy min-maxing gear and stats to fine-tune their characters will greatly appreciate it.
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tyler23434Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
I would guess that these rumors that cw and dc doing better endgame raids are just trolling TRs spreading lies to keep their god class from getting nurfed.
"Probably a dps loss for them to do that and only really necessary if the other dps are having trouble with adds. Save add dps for dc cw gwf etc."
having trouble with the adds is how high level bosses work. if the rogue doesn't stop beating on the boss it just makes the adds crowd the place even more to the point where you get overwhelmed.
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zingarbageMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Bottom line:
This game needs a proper, real-time DPS/damage dealt display. Recount, anyone?
The mechanic is already there, since it displays the numbers at the end of a dungeon, just a few tweaks and bingo.
Total damage done != effective DPS, and players who enjoy min-maxing gear and stats to fine-tune their characters will greatly appreciate it.
As I mentioned above, the Germans have been working on one using ACT, hopefully it is going well and will be available to us English speaking folk.
I would guess that these rumors that cw and dc doing better endgame raids are just trolling TRs spreading lies to keep their god class from getting nurfed.
Or just people misunderstanding the damage report.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
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itdude123Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
How about we all stop caring about who is topping DPS charts eh?
but my e-peen is so much larger than yours
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itdude123Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
ROFL Kimmurieloblodra. I almost sprayed diet coke on my monitor! Bwahahaha!
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zardoz007Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited April 2013
We shouldn't stop caring until everyone can back up each class as being the best damage done for one reason or another. Yes the Rogue, DC and CW all have great damage potential with the right build and and in certain situations.
Has anyone noticed how the GWF has never been mentioned at all in this forum. Thats the problem right there.
I was thinking this as well... Boss dps is of much more importance than trash dps.
Not true at all, most group deaths in every MMO ive played have come from add packs during a boss fight
People should just accept the fact everyone class in this game is a potion chugging DPS class, and the term striker has no bounds in a modern day MMO when every class is a dps that spams pots
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slambitMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 282Bounty Hunter
edited April 2013
I think this shows just how few people actually knows how to use dps meters, and imo. why they have no place in games,
but they're here and we'll be stuck with threads like this for all eternity.
PS. No i dont know how to use them 100% correctly myself, but i am atleast fully aware of that fact
Not true at all, most group deaths in every MMO ive played have come from add packs during a boss fight
People should just accept the fact everyone class in this game is a potion chugging DPS class, and the term striker has no bounds in a modern day MMO when every class is a dps that spams pots
Are you trolling? It definitely looks like a troll and maybe I'm just feeding the trolls but here goes anyway.
Just because every class can do "some" dps doesn't mean every class is a "potion chugging dps class". This isn't GW2 there are actually differences between classes in this game. The term striker defines the top dps classes in the game. Whether its single target or AoE. Controllers are CC Leaders are healers/buffers/debuffers Defenders are tanks.
I've played both a CW and TR. Its easy to be a bad rogue if you don't know the ropes. Also I can tell you with assurance, its waaaaay easier to dps as a CW due to the long rng atts and mobility with blink. With a full stamina bar I can get 2 rolls on a TR, with the CW I get 3 blinks. Mobility and rng are a HUGE advantage in a dps race, especially with mutiple mobs. A TR has to find a sweet spot for CA and to avoid melee dmg constantly, thus cutting into dps. CW 's just sit back and blast everything freely.
NW-DT4OV7EXH
Every time they idiot-proof something...they make better idiots.
Oh noes! There is this one boss fight, where I got out damaged by another class! ZOMG! Crypticplsfixkthxbai!
I would hardly accept "some reports" of "some dungeons" from "some players" as a reason to completely adjust class balance...
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zardoz007Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited April 2013
The point is the Control Wizard should have bigger numbers on damage against lair trash mobs, as well as the DC because of all thier AOE options. the TR will excel alot at PvP and Boss fights because of their single target DPS, which is higher than CW and DC DPS by Far. But due to the fact that the Rogue lacks Aoe it's numbers just cannot be as impressive as a Class that has lots of AoE.
The sad thing is that the GWF, a Class that has poor single target damage ans was supposed to have good AoE damage is not showing up on the charts most often for Most damage taken, because the only way they have any hope of getting on the damage charts is by rushing ahead of all other classes hitting mobs first and drinking tons and tons of potions. I have beaten GF Fighters and DC healing focused Clerics in damage by using these tactics. But when it comes to Wizards and Rogues there is no contest.
I Wish the GWF was significantly tougher, or had good CC or Self healing to make up for there lack of everything else, it could be the only way to justify how poorly they compare to other classes.
CW and DC are beating TR in the damage amounts during dungeons because those numbers are overall damage done. Obviously, classes that do high AoE damage are going to beat out classes that do high single target damage.
Let's think of an example: There are 6 mobs grouped up. The TR throws off a skill and hits one of them for 6k. The CW throws off an AoE skill and hits all 6 for 2k. 2k x 6 = 12k. Seeing how they're passing TR in damage now? Striker role (which is what TR is) excels in single-target DPS, taking out the big guys quickly. Controller role (which is what CW is) excels in control skills and AoE damage, weakening all of the smaller guys.
^ This, even in the table top this is how it worked. The cleric (leader) and the Wizard (controller), especially the wizard, could kill off armies of minions with their spells, while the rogue, ranger, warlock (strikers), drop the brutes and boss mobs.
I was thinking this as well... Boss dps is of much more importance than trash dps.
Only if the boss is the only thing in the fight.
many of the higher dungeons have adds at the start or part way into the boss fights, at this point CW's are awesome, not to mention that many adds and even to some extent, bosses, have considerable down time for melee due to AoE abilities that force us to run out where a ranged dps can keep slinging spells.
main thing is to stop all the crying ppl are doing , we haven't even got to 60 yet , gear and feat points could make a world of difference and not to mentions that as a few have stated a TR should be in front in a dps race, it offers little else to the party.
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meshuggaaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
no class can come CLOSE to the amount of damage i do as a rogue, ATLEAST 7-8mill damage higher than every other class, not sure what your talking about these people just dont know how to play their class.
I can attest to the OP's claim. From levels 1 to 60 before our team got best t2 gears and best t2 weapons, I was the top damage dealer every single instance. Once we all got close to top gears and decked ourselves out with the better enchants, our CW out damages me consistently now except for the fights where his main job is just to singularity over and over again.
Actually, I know a few GWFs that out damages me now also even though I easily out damaged them in the past. Rogues just don't scale as well as other classes towards 'end game'. Still an amazing fun class to play though.
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rorrin69Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
it's pointless to compare your damage to different classes. each class has a different role in dungeons, who cares if ClassA did more damage than ClassB, maybe ClassA had the responsibility to "pull the random levers" or something, thus they were doing other things besides straight DPS. But that job was required to win.
now if you want to compare ClassA's damage to another ClassA doing the same thing, then that is worthwhile. But only if you are up against a rage timer mechanic, or some sort of dps race to win the encounter.
what I hate is the mindset where folks will abandon their group responsibility just to try and top a damage chart. your group wipes, but hey, you were tops in damage.
dps is fun to tweak, min/max, etc. but keep the comparisons to apples to apples comparisons. clearly if you can fulfill your group role and all the while put out your classes max dps capability then you are doing well. It basically just helps you win. but plenty of groups can still win an encounter without the worlds foremost dps'ers, albeit maybe its takes 4 minutes longer.
Dps isn't t all that matters. Ofc a wizards will have higher dps in most dungeons. There are a million adds. Are kids really this special nowadays.
Also depends on spec a lot of wizards in my guild I grp with out Dps me when it comes to trash mobs. All that cc and knock back also keeps my dps lower.
TR is meant to **** single target dps. So no a good wizard should out dps a TR for the most part. But that doesn't really mean anything either.
And the very few TRs I know who out dps me have about a 12k GS.
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degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
There are several reports comming in that CW and DC are outdpsing TR in 50+ dungeons
This is something Cryptic needs to look into fast, stop listening to all the rogue nerfcalling posts from lvl 20 players.
Classes with alot more utilities shouldnt outdps a pure striker class
It depends. Epic Cloak Tower, TR always beats my CW. Epic Pirates, my CW always beats the TR. Why? AOE damage and number of mobs. If you have a lot of mobs, a CW should beat you out in damage.
Comments
This is exactly what ran through my head when I read the OP.
I was thinking this as well... Boss dps is of much more importance than trash dps.
Probably a dps loss for them to do that and only really necessary if the other dps are having trouble with adds. Save add dps for dc cw gwf etc.
This game needs a proper, real-time DPS/damage dealt display. Recount, anyone?
The mechanic is already there, since it displays the numbers at the end of a dungeon, just a few tweaks and bingo.
Total damage done != effective DPS, and players who enjoy min-maxing gear and stats to fine-tune their characters will greatly appreciate it.
having trouble with the adds is how high level bosses work. if the rogue doesn't stop beating on the boss it just makes the adds crowd the place even more to the point where you get overwhelmed.
As I mentioned above, the Germans have been working on one using ACT, hopefully it is going well and will be available to us English speaking folk.
Or just people misunderstanding the damage report.
Yup! AOE vs single target damage. No real comparison and different roles. Wish people would quit comparing and just play what fits their play style.
TR will always beat any other class in single target dps.
That is all
but my e-peen is so much larger than yours
Has anyone noticed how the GWF has never been mentioned at all in this forum. Thats the problem right there.
Not true at all, most group deaths in every MMO ive played have come from add packs during a boss fight
People should just accept the fact everyone class in this game is a potion chugging DPS class, and the term striker has no bounds in a modern day MMO when every class is a dps that spams pots
but they're here and we'll be stuck with threads like this for all eternity.
PS. No i dont know how to use them 100% correctly myself, but i am atleast fully aware of that fact
Just because every class can do "some" dps doesn't mean every class is a "potion chugging dps class". This isn't GW2 there are actually differences between classes in this game. The term striker defines the top dps classes in the game. Whether its single target or AoE. Controllers are CC Leaders are healers/buffers/debuffers Defenders are tanks.
Every time they idiot-proof something...they make better idiots.
I would hardly accept "some reports" of "some dungeons" from "some players" as a reason to completely adjust class balance...
The sad thing is that the GWF, a Class that has poor single target damage ans was supposed to have good AoE damage is not showing up on the charts most often for Most damage taken, because the only way they have any hope of getting on the damage charts is by rushing ahead of all other classes hitting mobs first and drinking tons and tons of potions. I have beaten GF Fighters and DC healing focused Clerics in damage by using these tactics. But when it comes to Wizards and Rogues there is no contest.
I Wish the GWF was significantly tougher, or had good CC or Self healing to make up for there lack of everything else, it could be the only way to justify how poorly they compare to other classes.
^ This, even in the table top this is how it worked. The cleric (leader) and the Wizard (controller), especially the wizard, could kill off armies of minions with their spells, while the rogue, ranger, warlock (strikers), drop the brutes and boss mobs.
Only if the boss is the only thing in the fight.
many of the higher dungeons have adds at the start or part way into the boss fights, at this point CW's are awesome, not to mention that many adds and even to some extent, bosses, have considerable down time for melee due to AoE abilities that force us to run out where a ranged dps can keep slinging spells.
main thing is to stop all the crying ppl are doing , we haven't even got to 60 yet , gear and feat points could make a world of difference and not to mentions that as a few have stated a TR should be in front in a dps race, it offers little else to the party.
Actually, I know a few GWFs that out damages me now also even though I easily out damaged them in the past. Rogues just don't scale as well as other classes towards 'end game'. Still an amazing fun class to play though.
now if you want to compare ClassA's damage to another ClassA doing the same thing, then that is worthwhile. But only if you are up against a rage timer mechanic, or some sort of dps race to win the encounter.
what I hate is the mindset where folks will abandon their group responsibility just to try and top a damage chart. your group wipes, but hey, you were tops in damage.
dps is fun to tweak, min/max, etc. but keep the comparisons to apples to apples comparisons. clearly if you can fulfill your group role and all the while put out your classes max dps capability then you are doing well. It basically just helps you win. but plenty of groups can still win an encounter without the worlds foremost dps'ers, albeit maybe its takes 4 minutes longer.
Also depends on spec a lot of wizards in my guild I grp with out Dps me when it comes to trash mobs. All that cc and knock back also keeps my dps lower.
TR is meant to **** single target dps. So no a good wizard should out dps a TR for the most part. But that doesn't really mean anything either.
And the very few TRs I know who out dps me have about a 12k GS.
It depends. Epic Cloak Tower, TR always beats my CW. Epic Pirates, my CW always beats the TR. Why? AOE damage and number of mobs. If you have a lot of mobs, a CW should beat you out in damage.
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