silknightMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 199
edited April 2013
Nice read so far, although I do hope destroyer gets changed, and is a little less like your analysis. The reliance on poor mechanics like weapon master strike irk me.
Love the guide, very detailed and cleanly presented. Well done!
Question: So is the GWF still the AoE tank many of us believed it to be? The decision to move Wicked Strike from lvl 1 to tier 5 really confused me and made me think they are trying to make the GWF into more of a Striker (ie single-target dps).
I believe it can be yes, there are a lot of nice AoE threat mechanics in the Sentinel line as long as they work like they read.
Nice read so far, although I do hope destroyer gets changed, and is a little less like your analysis. The reliance on poor mechanics like weapon master strike irk me.
I loved the WMS mechanic along with reaping strike once I got used to it. It is really hard to beat the damage out put if you compliment it with some other things.
It's not my wiki but it just is better displayed. What your guide should have done is rate, on a scale of 1-10 on each of the feats. Give some thought on why a feat is good for this or that. Most sites, the wiki included, give great reference data but fail at giving any thought if it's a good or bad feat.
Reference data is great but what we all want to know is how some of these feats are parsing. Which ones are dead weight and which ones are mandatory. Yes, your opinion will be called into question but that will allow the guide to get some actual feedback as right now there is zero opinion anywhere in your guide and just reference, which frankly the wiki does a better job.
Give us your insight into what you felt was good. Let us poke holes in your logic, offer counter points. This has the potential to be a really great thread.
Thank you for the input. I will get into some stuff with the synergies but I don't want to tell people how to play or build in this guide. We are all still learning and my goal here is to help people make their own decisions. So to actually rate the powers and feats in some ways, I just can't do that.
What I am doing it clearly pointing out the mechanic. The color coding ties into that and in the synergy sections it will help people see the build options without me overtly telling them what to do or how to play.
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silknightMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 199
I loved the WMS mechanic along with reaping strike once I got used to it. It is really hard to beat the damage out put if you compliment it with some other things.
That's my problem, I don't want to get used to em, doesn't feel natural and doesn't flow for me, but that just may be me.
Nicely done! I was actually taking notes for my personal use, but yours are much more extensive. Here are some comments and things to watch for when the Open Beta starts:
The tutorial automatically selects your first five powers during the four character levels it covers. At Level 4, you gain both your first Daily Power and Class Feature which accounts for the "extra" power point.
The Rank 2 / Rank 3 bonuses are missing from the Power descriptions.
By my count, there are 27 rankable powers for a total of 81 selectable ranks. Since you get 61 Power Points total, that leaves you 20 short of maxing all powers (a good deal more than the "roughly a dozen" mentioned in the Dev Blog). That means you can max out a minimum of 7/27 powers if you rank them all up evenly, a maximum of 20/27 powers if you skip 6 of them entirely, or 17/27 if you dabble in all powers and rank up only the ones you care about.
Here is the slot breakdown for rankable powers:
Max Ranked Powers: 7-20/27
Total Active: 9/27
At-Will Active: 2/4
Encounter Active: 3/11
Daily Active: 2/5
Class Feature Active: 2/7
I have noticed some errors in the Power Sheet power decriptions. For example, the ranges you have listed for Reaping Strike (15' range, 3' cylinder) and Sure Strike (15' range, 5' cylinder) appear to be from the Power Sheet. However, the At-Will Slot tooltip listed 15' burst for Reaping Strike and 15' range, 2' cylinder for Sure Strike. These values appear to be more accurate, but maybe not 100% correct. There are likely errors in the other descriptions as well. Someone will probably need to spend some time with the training dummies in the PvP hall to get the true numbers.
Can you verify that Humans do in fact get 3 bonus Feat points? I think I saw just 2 in some descriptions.
Also LOL LOL OMG WTF BBQ, Disciple of Strength got nerfed to 2/4/6%, but Guardian Fighter still gets 5/10/15% for Strength Focus?
Nicely done! I was actually taking notes for my personal use, but yours are much more extensive. Here are some comments and things to watch for when the Open Beta starts:
The tutorial automatically selects your first five powers during the four character levels it covers. At Level 4, you gain both your first Daily Power and Class Feature which accounts for the "extra" power point.
The Rank 2 / Rank 3 bonuses are missing from the Power descriptions.
By my count, there are 27 rankable powers for a total of 81 selectable ranks. Since you get 61 Power Points total, that leaves you 20 short of maxing all powers (a good deal more than the "roughly a dozen" mentioned in the Dev Blog). That means you can max out a minimum of 7/27 powers if you rank them all up evenly, a maximum of 20/27 powers if you skip 6 of them entirely, or 17/27 if you dabble in all powers and rank up only the ones you care about.
Here is the slot breakdown for rankable powers:
Max Ranked Powers: 7-20/27
Total Active: 9/27
At-Will Active: 2/4
Encounter Active: 3/11
Daily Active: 2/5
Class Feature Active: 2/7
I have noticed some errors in the Power Sheet power decriptions. For example, the ranges you have listed for Reaping Strike (15' range, 3' cylinder) and Sure Strike (15' range, 5' cylinder) appear to be from the Power Sheet. However, the At-Will Slot tooltip listed 15' burst for Reaping Strike and 15' range, 2' cylinder for Sure Strike. These values appear to be more accurate, but maybe not 100% correct. There are likely errors in the other descriptions as well. Someone will probably need to spend some time with the training dummies in the PvP hall to get the true numbers.
Can you verify that Humans do in fact get 3 bonus Feat points? I think I saw just 2 in some descriptions.
Also LOL LOL OMG WTF BBQ, Disciple of Strength got nerfed to 2/4/6%, but Guardian Fighter still gets 5/10/15% for Strength Focus?
Thank you for the input. Yeah I put all things in rank 1 for the powers for now, but the scaling is usually pretty intuitive from there. Once open beta hits I will try to get back and update them. Some of this may require a community effort since no one will be able to slot all powers. This is part of why I went with the tool tips from the power sheet itself. Hopefully Cryptic / PWE step up and have all of this information officially out and we can let this guide go by the wayside.
I agree the DoS nerf was ridiculous, silly, and not really needed.
Humans do indeed get 3 bonus feats, at the levels mentioned. I actually played human to specifically test this out. We will need to find out what the Half Elf Dilletante puts the +1 into. I have heard that it auto assigns it to Int, but cannot verify that. I doubt that I will get much updated before open beta and I may even wait a while after to see if anything "official" comes out. Also if they don't I will likely add in the breakdown for rankable powers in a similar if not exact format as you have laid out.
Love the guide, very detailed and cleanly presented. Well done!
Question: So is the GWF still the AoE tank many of us believed it to be? The decision to move Wicked Strike from lvl 1 to tier 5 really confused me and made me think they are trying to make the GWF into more of a Striker (ie single-target dps).
I do believe so. Going through the build I am going to use for PvE group play is focused around that very thing.
Heroic Feats (23 total because I will be human)
Tier 1 - 6 points spent
Unstoppable Action - 0
You gain 5/10/15/20/25% bonus Action Points for dealing damage while you are Unstoppable.
Disciple of Strength - 3
Increase the amount of bonus damage Strength gives you by 2/4/6%.
Toughness - 3
Increase your Maximum Hit Points by 3/6/9%.
Tier 2 Available at 5 points - 6 points spent
Fast Runner - 0
Decrease Stamina drain while Sprinting by 3/6/9/12/15%.
Endless Assault - 3
Your encounters deal 2/4/6% more damage.
Armor Specialization - 3
Increases the effectiveness of Armor Class and Defense by 5/10/15%.
Tier 3 Available at 10 points - 11 points spent
Steely Defense - 5
Grants you Power equal to 4/8/12/16/20% of your Defense.
Constitution Focus - 3
Increase the effectiveness of Constitution by 5/10/15%.
Grit - 3
Gain 1/2/3% of your Max Hit Points in Temporary Hit Points when you are Healed by a power. (40 second cooldown)
Tier 4 Available at 15 points - 0 points spent
Weapon Mastery - 0
1/2/3% greater chance to land a critical hit.
Devastating Critical - 0
Increases Critical Severity by 5/10/15%.
Ubiquitous Shield - 0
Reduce the damage effects of Combat Advantage against you by 5/10/15/20/25%.
Sentinel (Paragon) Feats - Level 30
Tier 1
Scale Agility: You gain 1/2/3/4/5% chance to Deflect attacks.
Tier 2 Available at 5 points
Powerful Challenge: You deal an additional 3/6/9/12/15% damage to Marked targets.
Tier 3 Available at 10 points
Intimidation: Daring Shout and Come and Get it generate 5/10/15/20/25% additional threat and now do 1/2/3/4/5% of your Power as damage.
Tier 4 Available at 15 points
Defiance: Slam and Spinning Strike generate 5/10/15/20/25% additional threat and your Defense is increased by 5/10/15/20/25% while they are active.
Tier 5 Available at 20 points
Sentinel's Aegis: Increases the effectiveness of your Defense stat by 20% and causes Restoring Strike to Heal an additional 50% over 3 seconds.
Basically I will use Come and Get it to pull everything into me and then Daring Shout it. It should be a pretty effective aggro grab. My third encounter slot I am not so sure what I am going to leave there. Initially on leveling I will have Restoring Strike for some damage and healing. I probably will use that in PvP too and I may even try playing PvP very similar to PvE. But I also have room for Flourish, Takedown, Roar, and Not so Fast in my build to try out in that third slot. I could swap pretty much any one of them except Not so Fast for any other encounter that I want. I also could sacrifice one of them, which I may swap Takedown over, into Wicked Strike. Because my build does not use any of the Sure Strike Sentinel feats, I am not tied into it at all. I am also considering Weapon Master's Strike because I really like how much it ramps up the damage of Reaping Strike. But that is the beauty of this build. You can use whatever At-Will powers you want and there is enough points to take 3 of them.
If you really want to, you can even make a Sentinel AoE tank that has Sure Strike and Wicked Strike. Or if you are willing to work around things you can even go Weapon Master's Strike and Wicked Strike. Which is something I also strongly considered. It would be painful to level with rank 1 in Sure Strike and/or Reaping Strike, but to open up the 15 point power tier you will be forced to take rank 2 in one of them. You can get around not using one of the first two at will powers, but it is pretty hard to get around both. For this reason it makes sense to choose to keep one of them around. Fortunately for me I am one that loves Reaping Strike. Especially for a Non-Destroyer build. Since all others do NOT gain determination off of damage, and can only gain it off of taking damage or killing foes, I just find Reaping Strike to pretty much make sense on any build in the second at will slot. Once you learn the mechanics it is not so frustrating, though I do admit that all of the knock back happy folks that do it just because they can, make the skill all but useless in groups.
That is the very reason why I went away from Sure Strike to compliment it and will take either Wicked Strike or Weapon Master's Strike. Because when I join a public group I know that my ability to play well in my default build will be infringed on seriously be the knock back effects of others. When I do my signature maneuver of pull everything in to mark it, if they knock it back before I get it marked I am just going to stop worrying about keeping stuff off of them. Sooner or later, in the end game where the adds are much more dangerous, they will die for playing undisciplined. There has to be some give on our part too, at least with the control wizard I know that some of their knock back spells are high damage too. So once everything is marked they are going to see that as "go time" as they should.
The other nice thing in my build is the Slam. It gives me another huge radius AoE grab. I am taking the approach of making things come to me rather than running around and trying to gather them up. If they are already in a decent group OK great, I can still go get them, but IMO the whole run around mechanic is more for those that have a different goal than to be an add tank.
One last thing. I really may change them feats around to get Ubiquitous Shield. But I have 2 free respec tokens from getting both the Hero and Guardian packs, so if all else fails I will do that.
Oh I should have mentioned my intended mechanic for AoE tanking group play for that third slot, I left our roar. I am heavily leaning towards Weapon Master's Strike BTW and the combo would work something like this.
Sitting there stabbing stuff and trying to not get burninated... Oh noes! Mass Adds! AoE Add tank protocol engaged!
1) Find a "sweet spot" that is out of the big boss red splats but is close enough to grab the majority of adds. Hopefully my group is smart and they are not spread out too much. The bonus of staying relatively close to the boss is that AoE attacks can hit both the mobs I am about to tank, and the boss, plus there is less run time for strikers if they decide to help kill the adds.
2) Come and Get it to pull everything to me. +feat dmg +feat threat
3) Daring Shout to mark everything around me and make it take more damage. +feat dmg +feat threat
4) Move a small amount to make the mobs all face me rather then let them get combat advantage.
5) Weapon Master's Strike to apply debuff.
6) Roar to blow them back towards the boss and build determination.
7) Charge up Reaping Strike for them to walk back into, I will inch towards them as it charges as well.
8) Unleash Reaping Strike to do increased damage and build determination if I get hit.
9) Cycle Weapon Master's Strike and Reaping Strike until Encounters are off of cooldown. It should only be one or two cycles before encounter powers are off of cool down and we then gosub errrrrrrr go to step 1!
Edit: Roar is also nice for the interrupt too, many times those caster adds can put down some nasty splats. It also is nice for the push effect to manipulate said casters close to the boss if no other adds are around.
I really do admire the depth of your analysis. It's very refreshing to see such constructive and positive thinking.
On PvP:
I wonder about the effectiveness of Marks/Taunts in PvP. Obviously threat isn't a factor here, but beyond that if they were to make these powers have a strong PvP effect as well, you're still relying on your team to take advantage of your powers rather than using powers you can take advantage of yourself. In a pre-made team it could turn out great, but in PUGs or even an uncoordinated pre-made team it would be more effective to use something like Not So Fast, which prevents your enemy from escaping you (and your team), over Daring Shout which will mark all targets, helping your allies but providing little to no benefit to you.
I really do admire the depth of your analysis. It's very refreshing to see such constructive and positive thinking.
On PvP:
I wonder about the effectiveness of Marks/Taunts in PvP. Obviously threat isn't a factor here, but beyond that if they were to make these powers have a strong PvP effect as well, you're still relying on your team to take advantage of your powers rather than using powers you can take advantage of yourself. In a pre-made team it could turn out great, but in PUGs or even an uncoordinated pre-made team it would be more effective to use something like Not So Fast, which prevents your enemy from escaping you (and your team), over Daring Shout which will mark all targets, helping your allies but providing little to no benefit to you.
Yeah, I see no way with my PvE "add tank" style of build and play that I can truely fit a great PvP build in. I think this is a good thing in the long run. PvP builds will play a very different, but not necessarily less valuable, role in PvE groups than the ones that focus on tanking in PvE and the ones that focus on damage will also be different.
I also see two different build options for PvP, PvE defender, and PvE control and damage.
In PvP you have to decide if you want to be durable and mobile or if you want to focus on damage. In PvE controller aspect you have to decide on if you want to feature wicked strike down the Instigator line or Weapon Master's Strike down the Destroyer line. Sentinels have to decide on focusing on the Sure Strike build which is more for single target tanking, or the AoE tank build I have come up with. Even within each of those six "arctype" of builds there will be differentiation in ability scores, racial choices, some power set choices, and minor variation in feats. So I really like where things have went here. I think that Cryptic has done a great job of providing a lot of different builds for us to play with, even if there are aspects of it are not completely there yet.
For instance there still needs to be more flexibility in power choices. Also a cash shop token respec should be more flexible. It should allow us to basically "reroll" our character but maintain our experience. I can understand them making us take the same class and appearance choices. Even the same race choices. However I would like the option to reroll my base ability scores with a respec token. There are still some pretty huge differences in going with say Con over Dex as a second stat. Dex is pretty much superior in every way as a secondary ability score. However players that mess up and choose Con (for PvE anyways) are left with no choice but a reroll.
Once they get those two major things changed I will be somewhat happy. However I would also like to see some racial feats come into play as well. They can really add a lot of flavor and further differentiate one great weapon fighter from another.
Edit: The mark issue, Cryptic could handle that by giving you an assist for every kill on a marked target. This may actually already be in the game.
Argantis, does Daring Shout and Come and Get it do more damage than Roar and Come and Get (without putting the extra feat ponts)?
Probably not, Daring Shout does no damage as I recall it. So only the feats help there. Other than that there is the bonus damage form being marked which might be additional on 2 Reaping Strikes. All in all, without any parsing, I would think that it would still do less than Roar, especially without feats.
Let me take a look at my video and I will get back with yah.
Edit: Edited my edits. I have to do some thinking here!
Argantis, does Daring Shout and Come and Get it do more damage than Roar and Come and Get (without putting the extra feat ponts)?
Looking at my damage numbers, Roar is around 900 @ level 50 with the Weapon Master's debuff on the targets. I honestly do not know what the damage would be without it because in CB4 once I had Weapon Master's Strike it was rare for me to not have the debuff on the mob. I do know that from a pure damage standpoint Not So Fast was the best encounter AoE damage. It did about 30% to 50% more than Roar. So if I wanted maximum damage from my build I would do the following.
1) Position for the mob gather
2) Come And Get It
3) Not So Fast
4) Weapon Master's Strike for debuff
5) Quickly re-position to remove combat advantage and also set up a buffer to get a Reaping Strike off
6) Daring Shout
7) Charge up Reaping Strike (will need very good timing to get the hit off with the mobs debuffed)
However since I prefer the utility of Roar over Not So Fast, it changes things a bit. It would make more sense to do the Roar within 3 seconds after the Come And Get It, but that means you have to position stuff really fast to try and maximize your targets. That 3 second window is pretty tight. I really wish they would double it.
They also need to buff the talent to convert damage to power from 5% to about 25% in the Intimidation Feat. 5% of power is going to be around 150 damage if you are very well geared at level 50. That means a 5x buff to the damage on the feat would still put it shy of roar and any other AoE damage encounter power, but with the 25% threat boost make it pretty similar in threat.
They also need to make it more clear when you do a Daring Shout, when exactly the mobs have reduced Damage Resistance. Maybe they should make the Marks purple colored while they are debuffed. Because the language on it is confusing. Just reading it am not sure if "until you are attacked" means until I; have aggro, get swung at, or get hit.
Edit: by the way excellent question! You now have me getting a more solid answer on if I will take Weapon Master's or Wicked Strike. I may even swap 5 points from Intimidation to Student of the Sword and go with Wicked Strike. I may even struggle along with 1 point in Sure Strike until I can unlock it! LoL I do seriously love the game mechanics and GWF class. There is a lot of depth and complexity to it. The other thing I am thinking of is going for a more critical oriented Sure Strike build.
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volcxxxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
Nice tactic!
1. Come And Get It - have short radius, this will not work
2. Damage from trait is laughable (Daring shout trait)
3. Remove Not so fast, its <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> now , roar is MUCH better (builds determination)
4. Reaping strike is too slow to be effective in fast-action situations (but damage is good)
Old "Blood and Sand: Unchained" quest Played more than 100 000 times!
> TRY IT NOW!
I was thinking maybe come and get it to bring the mobs in and once in position yourself and do roar. I am looking for max AOE damage.
That is why I liked Not So Fast, because you can hit 360 with it, you just auto follow Come and Get it with it then position for the roar with the mobs slowed. The bad part though is having Daring Shout can add 15% damage to marked foes. So to me it is more of a preference thing. By immediately following the Come And Get It with Not So Fast you ensure max damage and getting inside of that 3 second window. If you are like me and prefer Roar then yeah, we have no choice but to position inside of the 3 second window.
Some may want to opt out of the marks and Daring Shout but to me that is one thing I absolutely do not want to do. I really wish they upped the damage to 25% of power on those feats to actually make them useful. Right now they seem nice. You see additional damage and additional threat and think "Oh nice!". But in the end I do believe doing flat damage will give both more damage and more threat. Plus having the flexibility to go to a more critical strike oriented build it going to mean a lot more damage everywhere else too. To me it seems that the idea is in the right place, they just fall short on function.
IMO if you want a max AoE damage build you will have both Roar and Not So Fast. You would likely replace Sure Strike with Wicked Strike as well, perhaps with Weapon Master's Strike if you really like the debuff combo with Reaping Strike. In the end the damage and threat on the feats in its' current state are pitiful.
For me it is a tough call as i want one of my encounter powers to be the hard hitting single target damage, so that is why I am in limbo of what 2 aoe encounters I will use.
For me it is a tough call as i want one of my encounter powers to be the hard hitting single target damage, so that is why I am in limbo of what 2 aoe encounters I will use.
It is a really tough call for me too. Come And Get It did seem to have very limited range when I tested it in CB3. But the tool tip lists 30' range. So that might be the one I remove. If so though I would probably slot Mighty Leap there. Roar is just too useful to not take IMO. The interrupt, push, determination, and damage on top of it definitely makes it my #1 utility and AoE damage encounter. I also like the idea of Daring Shout with the 15% damage buff feat. But even that, if I cannot get the mobs gathered with Come And Get It will probably have limited use and I may opt for something else. I also like the idea of using a single target encounter such as Restoring Strike, but that requires some feats to really maximize IMO. Which brings me back to Flourish which IMO is the best single damage encounter power for pure damage. Takedown is really interesting too, especially for PvP.
My ideal PvP load out would probably be. Sure Strike, Wicked Strike, Take Down, Restoring Strike, Flourish, Savage Advance, and Crescendo. Slam is nice too and sometimes Spinning Strike. Roar can be super funny in PvP as well, I love pushing people off of ledges with it to force them out of the fight for a while. It can really help even the odds on a control point fight. Come and Get it can be pretty funny in PvP too, even though it is more annoying than effective to the opponent. Mighty Leap can really make for some interesting stuff too. All in all I hope I can have enough fun toys in my build for both PvE and PvP.
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neverasherMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
Indomitable Battle Strike seems the hardest hitting move, and it's an AoE(smaller one but will hit every target sucked in by Come and Get It usually). Restoring Strike and Flourish are also good choices, but Flourish actually hits the least of any of them but does stun. I can see the usefulness in Roar but I'd rather things come towards me not away. I would take Daring Shout over it if I just want a determination builder.
Section 5: Powers (Utility, At-Will, Encounter, Daily, and Paragon)
Addendum
Class Feature (Passive) Power Slots: It needs to be noted that Class Feature Powers, something most of us will think of as "passive" powers, can only have two slotted at any one time. So be careful in planning these out and you can have a lot more variety in your active power slots. Much like your active powers, the two passive slots that you have "equipped" on your button bar are the only ones you will receive a benefit from.
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leissesMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
argantis, so all passive Class Features work full time and we can choose two active Class Feature Powers to place at power slots?
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asaviosMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 25Arc User
edited April 2013
you can have multiple passive class features but you will always benefit of only two of them.
you can have multiple passive class features but you will always benefit of only two of them.
Yeah that is it, in a nutshell. For my tank speck I decided to go with Bravery and Weapon Master. But I will have to take Destroyer to unlock some later tiers based on just spending points.
But really you just want to pick the two you want and that is that. Might have a 3rd and 4th for PvP or something, but we definitely do not want, nor do we get any benefit for ones that are not slotted.
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rojorMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 178Bounty Hunter
edited April 2013
Argantis this is by far the best guide I have ever seen! I however can only empathize with you due to the amount of updates and changes you will have to do to it
Argantis this is by far the best guide I have ever seen! I however can only empathize with you due to the amount of updates and changes you will have to do to it
Thank you! Yeah I may even keep it up if the information I provide is of more depth and value than what Curse puts on their wiki.
Indomitable Battle Strike seems the hardest hitting move...
Thanks for the heads up on this. I will really have to pay attention to the damage numbers on the tool tips in live. Part of the reason I did not get into the damage aspect of things in the guide is because I do not have faith that a lot of on the fly, unannounced, adjustments are not going to happen in open beta. That is something I may use down the line for a reserved section as well, laying out all of the base damage of each power and what feats can enhance and modify it. But that in itself is a lot of maintenance and parsing. Had I a proper damage meter I might be more interested in such an en devour. However the prospect of hand recording a combat log or video capturing a bunch of numbers is not really something I am willing to put the time into. The training dummies make it possible to do that, but it would still really stink time wise compared to say, parsing a damage meter in WoW.
It looks like my suspicions will hold true and sometime post launch, but yet during open beta there will be some adjustments and changes.
What does your to-do list look like in the last week leading up to the soft launch?
Mostly at this point it's performance, crash, and exploit issues. We've stopped adding that "one more cool thing" for the open beta period so that we can concentrate on coming out as stable as possible. The cool thing about MMOs is that we can patch whenever we want. We've set up a structure that all of those "wouldn't it be nice if we did this" or "oh that's a bit of an annoyance" things will go into a different bucket that we'll release after we launch. Stability is what we're really focusing on right now.
For the rest of the team, they've spent the last couple of weeks working on the first update which will come out a couple of months after the launch. It's one of the things we want to convey to the fans who support us. We're not just launching the game and walking away. If you've seen what Cryptic's done with Champions and Star Trek, those games are years old and still get regular, significant updates. We want Neverwinter players to know that that will be the same here too.
Comments
I believe it can be yes, there are a lot of nice AoE threat mechanics in the Sentinel line as long as they work like they read.
I loved the WMS mechanic along with reaping strike once I got used to it. It is really hard to beat the damage out put if you compliment it with some other things.
Thank you for the input. I will get into some stuff with the synergies but I don't want to tell people how to play or build in this guide. We are all still learning and my goal here is to help people make their own decisions. So to actually rate the powers and feats in some ways, I just can't do that.
What I am doing it clearly pointing out the mechanic. The color coding ties into that and in the synergy sections it will help people see the build options without me overtly telling them what to do or how to play.
That's my problem, I don't want to get used to em, doesn't feel natural and doesn't flow for me, but that just may be me.
The tutorial automatically selects your first five powers during the four character levels it covers. At Level 4, you gain both your first Daily Power and Class Feature which accounts for the "extra" power point.
The Rank 2 / Rank 3 bonuses are missing from the Power descriptions.
By my count, there are 27 rankable powers for a total of 81 selectable ranks. Since you get 61 Power Points total, that leaves you 20 short of maxing all powers (a good deal more than the "roughly a dozen" mentioned in the Dev Blog). That means you can max out a minimum of 7/27 powers if you rank them all up evenly, a maximum of 20/27 powers if you skip 6 of them entirely, or 17/27 if you dabble in all powers and rank up only the ones you care about.
Here is the slot breakdown for rankable powers:
Max Ranked Powers: 7-20/27
Total Active: 9/27
At-Will Active: 2/4
Encounter Active: 3/11
Daily Active: 2/5
Class Feature Active: 2/7
I have noticed some errors in the Power Sheet power decriptions. For example, the ranges you have listed for Reaping Strike (15' range, 3' cylinder) and Sure Strike (15' range, 5' cylinder) appear to be from the Power Sheet. However, the At-Will Slot tooltip listed 15' burst for Reaping Strike and 15' range, 2' cylinder for Sure Strike. These values appear to be more accurate, but maybe not 100% correct. There are likely errors in the other descriptions as well. Someone will probably need to spend some time with the training dummies in the PvP hall to get the true numbers.
Can you verify that Humans do in fact get 3 bonus Feat points? I think I saw just 2 in some descriptions.
Also LOL LOL OMG WTF BBQ, Disciple of Strength got nerfed to 2/4/6%, but Guardian Fighter still gets 5/10/15% for Strength Focus?
Thank you for the input. Yeah I put all things in rank 1 for the powers for now, but the scaling is usually pretty intuitive from there. Once open beta hits I will try to get back and update them. Some of this may require a community effort since no one will be able to slot all powers. This is part of why I went with the tool tips from the power sheet itself. Hopefully Cryptic / PWE step up and have all of this information officially out and we can let this guide go by the wayside.
I agree the DoS nerf was ridiculous, silly, and not really needed.
Humans do indeed get 3 bonus feats, at the levels mentioned. I actually played human to specifically test this out. We will need to find out what the Half Elf Dilletante puts the +1 into. I have heard that it auto assigns it to Int, but cannot verify that. I doubt that I will get much updated before open beta and I may even wait a while after to see if anything "official" comes out. Also if they don't I will likely add in the breakdown for rankable powers in a similar if not exact format as you have laid out.
Once again, thanks for the input and your time.
I do believe so. Going through the build I am going to use for PvE group play is focused around that very thing.
Heroic Feats (23 total because I will be human)
Tier 1 - 6 points spent
Unstoppable Action - 0
You gain 5/10/15/20/25% bonus Action Points for dealing damage while you are Unstoppable.
Disciple of Strength - 3
Increase the amount of bonus damage Strength gives you by 2/4/6%.
Toughness - 3
Increase your Maximum Hit Points by 3/6/9%.
Tier 2 Available at 5 points - 6 points spent
Fast Runner - 0
Decrease Stamina drain while Sprinting by 3/6/9/12/15%.
Endless Assault - 3
Your encounters deal 2/4/6% more damage.
Armor Specialization - 3
Increases the effectiveness of Armor Class and Defense by 5/10/15%.
Tier 3 Available at 10 points - 11 points spent
Steely Defense - 5
Grants you Power equal to 4/8/12/16/20% of your Defense.
Constitution Focus - 3
Increase the effectiveness of Constitution by 5/10/15%.
Grit - 3
Gain 1/2/3% of your Max Hit Points in Temporary Hit Points when you are Healed by a power. (40 second cooldown)
Tier 4 Available at 15 points - 0 points spent
Weapon Mastery - 0
1/2/3% greater chance to land a critical hit.
Devastating Critical - 0
Increases Critical Severity by 5/10/15%.
Ubiquitous Shield - 0
Reduce the damage effects of Combat Advantage against you by 5/10/15/20/25%.
Sentinel (Paragon) Feats - Level 30
Tier 1
Scale Agility: You gain 1/2/3/4/5% chance to Deflect attacks.
Tier 2 Available at 5 points
Powerful Challenge: You deal an additional 3/6/9/12/15% damage to Marked targets.
Tier 3 Available at 10 points
Intimidation: Daring Shout and Come and Get it generate 5/10/15/20/25% additional threat and now do 1/2/3/4/5% of your Power as damage.
Tier 4 Available at 15 points
Defiance: Slam and Spinning Strike generate 5/10/15/20/25% additional threat and your Defense is increased by 5/10/15/20/25% while they are active.
Tier 5 Available at 20 points
Sentinel's Aegis: Increases the effectiveness of your Defense stat by 20% and causes Restoring Strike to Heal an additional 50% over 3 seconds.
Basically I will use Come and Get it to pull everything into me and then Daring Shout it. It should be a pretty effective aggro grab. My third encounter slot I am not so sure what I am going to leave there. Initially on leveling I will have Restoring Strike for some damage and healing. I probably will use that in PvP too and I may even try playing PvP very similar to PvE. But I also have room for Flourish, Takedown, Roar, and Not so Fast in my build to try out in that third slot. I could swap pretty much any one of them except Not so Fast for any other encounter that I want. I also could sacrifice one of them, which I may swap Takedown over, into Wicked Strike. Because my build does not use any of the Sure Strike Sentinel feats, I am not tied into it at all. I am also considering Weapon Master's Strike because I really like how much it ramps up the damage of Reaping Strike. But that is the beauty of this build. You can use whatever At-Will powers you want and there is enough points to take 3 of them.
If you really want to, you can even make a Sentinel AoE tank that has Sure Strike and Wicked Strike. Or if you are willing to work around things you can even go Weapon Master's Strike and Wicked Strike. Which is something I also strongly considered. It would be painful to level with rank 1 in Sure Strike and/or Reaping Strike, but to open up the 15 point power tier you will be forced to take rank 2 in one of them. You can get around not using one of the first two at will powers, but it is pretty hard to get around both. For this reason it makes sense to choose to keep one of them around. Fortunately for me I am one that loves Reaping Strike. Especially for a Non-Destroyer build. Since all others do NOT gain determination off of damage, and can only gain it off of taking damage or killing foes, I just find Reaping Strike to pretty much make sense on any build in the second at will slot. Once you learn the mechanics it is not so frustrating, though I do admit that all of the knock back happy folks that do it just because they can, make the skill all but useless in groups.
That is the very reason why I went away from Sure Strike to compliment it and will take either Wicked Strike or Weapon Master's Strike. Because when I join a public group I know that my ability to play well in my default build will be infringed on seriously be the knock back effects of others. When I do my signature maneuver of pull everything in to mark it, if they knock it back before I get it marked I am just going to stop worrying about keeping stuff off of them. Sooner or later, in the end game where the adds are much more dangerous, they will die for playing undisciplined. There has to be some give on our part too, at least with the control wizard I know that some of their knock back spells are high damage too. So once everything is marked they are going to see that as "go time" as they should.
The other nice thing in my build is the Slam. It gives me another huge radius AoE grab. I am taking the approach of making things come to me rather than running around and trying to gather them up. If they are already in a decent group OK great, I can still go get them, but IMO the whole run around mechanic is more for those that have a different goal than to be an add tank.
One last thing. I really may change them feats around to get Ubiquitous Shield. But I have 2 free respec tokens from getting both the Hero and Guardian packs, so if all else fails I will do that.
Sitting there stabbing stuff and trying to not get burninated... Oh noes! Mass Adds! AoE Add tank protocol engaged!
1) Find a "sweet spot" that is out of the big boss red splats but is close enough to grab the majority of adds. Hopefully my group is smart and they are not spread out too much. The bonus of staying relatively close to the boss is that AoE attacks can hit both the mobs I am about to tank, and the boss, plus there is less run time for strikers if they decide to help kill the adds.
2) Come and Get it to pull everything to me. +feat dmg +feat threat
3) Daring Shout to mark everything around me and make it take more damage. +feat dmg +feat threat
4) Move a small amount to make the mobs all face me rather then let them get combat advantage.
5) Weapon Master's Strike to apply debuff.
6) Roar to blow them back towards the boss and build determination.
7) Charge up Reaping Strike for them to walk back into, I will inch towards them as it charges as well.
8) Unleash Reaping Strike to do increased damage and build determination if I get hit.
9) Cycle Weapon Master's Strike and Reaping Strike until Encounters are off of cooldown. It should only be one or two cycles before encounter powers are off of cool down and we then gosub errrrrrrr go to step 1!
Edit: Roar is also nice for the interrupt too, many times those caster adds can put down some nasty splats. It also is nice for the push effect to manipulate said casters close to the boss if no other adds are around.
On PvP:
I wonder about the effectiveness of Marks/Taunts in PvP. Obviously threat isn't a factor here, but beyond that if they were to make these powers have a strong PvP effect as well, you're still relying on your team to take advantage of your powers rather than using powers you can take advantage of yourself. In a pre-made team it could turn out great, but in PUGs or even an uncoordinated pre-made team it would be more effective to use something like Not So Fast, which prevents your enemy from escaping you (and your team), over Daring Shout which will mark all targets, helping your allies but providing little to no benefit to you.
Yeah, I see no way with my PvE "add tank" style of build and play that I can truely fit a great PvP build in. I think this is a good thing in the long run. PvP builds will play a very different, but not necessarily less valuable, role in PvE groups than the ones that focus on tanking in PvE and the ones that focus on damage will also be different.
I also see two different build options for PvP, PvE defender, and PvE control and damage.
In PvP you have to decide if you want to be durable and mobile or if you want to focus on damage. In PvE controller aspect you have to decide on if you want to feature wicked strike down the Instigator line or Weapon Master's Strike down the Destroyer line. Sentinels have to decide on focusing on the Sure Strike build which is more for single target tanking, or the AoE tank build I have come up with. Even within each of those six "arctype" of builds there will be differentiation in ability scores, racial choices, some power set choices, and minor variation in feats. So I really like where things have went here. I think that Cryptic has done a great job of providing a lot of different builds for us to play with, even if there are aspects of it are not completely there yet.
For instance there still needs to be more flexibility in power choices. Also a cash shop token respec should be more flexible. It should allow us to basically "reroll" our character but maintain our experience. I can understand them making us take the same class and appearance choices. Even the same race choices. However I would like the option to reroll my base ability scores with a respec token. There are still some pretty huge differences in going with say Con over Dex as a second stat. Dex is pretty much superior in every way as a secondary ability score. However players that mess up and choose Con (for PvE anyways) are left with no choice but a reroll.
Once they get those two major things changed I will be somewhat happy. However I would also like to see some racial feats come into play as well. They can really add a lot of flavor and further differentiate one great weapon fighter from another.
Edit: The mark issue, Cryptic could handle that by giving you an assist for every kill on a marked target. This may actually already be in the game.
Probably not, Daring Shout does no damage as I recall it. So only the feats help there. Other than that there is the bonus damage form being marked which might be additional on 2 Reaping Strikes. All in all, without any parsing, I would think that it would still do less than Roar, especially without feats.
Let me take a look at my video and I will get back with yah.
Edit: Edited my edits. I have to do some thinking here!
Looking at my damage numbers, Roar is around 900 @ level 50 with the Weapon Master's debuff on the targets. I honestly do not know what the damage would be without it because in CB4 once I had Weapon Master's Strike it was rare for me to not have the debuff on the mob. I do know that from a pure damage standpoint Not So Fast was the best encounter AoE damage. It did about 30% to 50% more than Roar. So if I wanted maximum damage from my build I would do the following.
1) Position for the mob gather
2) Come And Get It
3) Not So Fast
4) Weapon Master's Strike for debuff
5) Quickly re-position to remove combat advantage and also set up a buffer to get a Reaping Strike off
6) Daring Shout
7) Charge up Reaping Strike (will need very good timing to get the hit off with the mobs debuffed)
However since I prefer the utility of Roar over Not So Fast, it changes things a bit. It would make more sense to do the Roar within 3 seconds after the Come And Get It, but that means you have to position stuff really fast to try and maximize your targets. That 3 second window is pretty tight. I really wish they would double it.
They also need to buff the talent to convert damage to power from 5% to about 25% in the Intimidation Feat. 5% of power is going to be around 150 damage if you are very well geared at level 50. That means a 5x buff to the damage on the feat would still put it shy of roar and any other AoE damage encounter power, but with the 25% threat boost make it pretty similar in threat.
They also need to make it more clear when you do a Daring Shout, when exactly the mobs have reduced Damage Resistance. Maybe they should make the Marks purple colored while they are debuffed. Because the language on it is confusing. Just reading it am not sure if "until you are attacked" means until I; have aggro, get swung at, or get hit.
Edit: by the way excellent question! You now have me getting a more solid answer on if I will take Weapon Master's or Wicked Strike. I may even swap 5 points from Intimidation to Student of the Sword and go with Wicked Strike. I may even struggle along with 1 point in Sure Strike until I can unlock it! LoL I do seriously love the game mechanics and GWF class. There is a lot of depth and complexity to it. The other thing I am thinking of is going for a more critical oriented Sure Strike build.
1. Come And Get It - have short radius, this will not work
2. Damage from trait is laughable (Daring shout trait)
3. Remove Not so fast, its <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> now , roar is MUCH better (builds determination)
4. Reaping strike is too slow to be effective in fast-action situations (but damage is good)
Old "Blood and Sand: Unchained" quest
Played more than 100 000 times!
> TRY IT NOW!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ecy4o6JqLc
That is why I liked Not So Fast, because you can hit 360 with it, you just auto follow Come and Get it with it then position for the roar with the mobs slowed. The bad part though is having Daring Shout can add 15% damage to marked foes. So to me it is more of a preference thing. By immediately following the Come And Get It with Not So Fast you ensure max damage and getting inside of that 3 second window. If you are like me and prefer Roar then yeah, we have no choice but to position inside of the 3 second window.
Some may want to opt out of the marks and Daring Shout but to me that is one thing I absolutely do not want to do. I really wish they upped the damage to 25% of power on those feats to actually make them useful. Right now they seem nice. You see additional damage and additional threat and think "Oh nice!". But in the end I do believe doing flat damage will give both more damage and more threat. Plus having the flexibility to go to a more critical strike oriented build it going to mean a lot more damage everywhere else too. To me it seems that the idea is in the right place, they just fall short on function.
IMO if you want a max AoE damage build you will have both Roar and Not So Fast. You would likely replace Sure Strike with Wicked Strike as well, perhaps with Weapon Master's Strike if you really like the debuff combo with Reaping Strike. In the end the damage and threat on the feats in its' current state are pitiful.
It is a really tough call for me too. Come And Get It did seem to have very limited range when I tested it in CB3. But the tool tip lists 30' range. So that might be the one I remove. If so though I would probably slot Mighty Leap there. Roar is just too useful to not take IMO. The interrupt, push, determination, and damage on top of it definitely makes it my #1 utility and AoE damage encounter. I also like the idea of Daring Shout with the 15% damage buff feat. But even that, if I cannot get the mobs gathered with Come And Get It will probably have limited use and I may opt for something else. I also like the idea of using a single target encounter such as Restoring Strike, but that requires some feats to really maximize IMO. Which brings me back to Flourish which IMO is the best single damage encounter power for pure damage. Takedown is really interesting too, especially for PvP.
My ideal PvP load out would probably be. Sure Strike, Wicked Strike, Take Down, Restoring Strike, Flourish, Savage Advance, and Crescendo. Slam is nice too and sometimes Spinning Strike. Roar can be super funny in PvP as well, I love pushing people off of ledges with it to force them out of the fight for a while. It can really help even the odds on a control point fight. Come and Get it can be pretty funny in PvP too, even though it is more annoying than effective to the opponent. Mighty Leap can really make for some interesting stuff too. All in all I hope I can have enough fun toys in my build for both PvE and PvP.
Addendum
Class Feature (Passive) Power Slots: It needs to be noted that Class Feature Powers, something most of us will think of as "passive" powers, can only have two slotted at any one time. So be careful in planning these out and you can have a lot more variety in your active power slots. Much like your active powers, the two passive slots that you have "equipped" on your button bar are the only ones you will receive a benefit from.
Yeah that is it, in a nutshell. For my tank speck I decided to go with Bravery and Weapon Master. But I will have to take Destroyer to unlock some later tiers based on just spending points.
But really you just want to pick the two you want and that is that. Might have a 3rd and 4th for PvP or something, but we definitely do not want, nor do we get any benefit for ones that are not slotted.
Thank you! Yeah I may even keep it up if the information I provide is of more depth and value than what Curse puts on their wiki.
Thanks for the heads up on this. I will really have to pay attention to the damage numbers on the tool tips in live. Part of the reason I did not get into the damage aspect of things in the guide is because I do not have faith that a lot of on the fly, unannounced, adjustments are not going to happen in open beta. That is something I may use down the line for a reserved section as well, laying out all of the base damage of each power and what feats can enhance and modify it. But that in itself is a lot of maintenance and parsing. Had I a proper damage meter I might be more interested in such an en devour. However the prospect of hand recording a combat log or video capturing a bunch of numbers is not really something I am willing to put the time into. The training dummies make it possible to do that, but it would still really stink time wise compared to say, parsing a damage meter in WoW.
This was in part two as well: