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rkv13
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 217 Bounty Hunter
For starters, I hope they change how they do PvP brackets, where you enter a match at your current level with your current gear up against and sided with players of different levels and gear-values. I'd much prefer a level battlefield with everyone of equal level/gear/power. It's been done in other games (I think Guild Wars has it where everyone who enters PvP is leveled to max and given PvP-specific gear) and while it may be too late in development to implement such a change, I hope it happens.
Anywho, back on topic:
How do you Rogues think PvP should work for you? Obviously Rogues are all about single-target elimination, popping into battle behind a squishy target and taking them down as fast as possible. But digging deeper than that, how effective should a Rogue be at this tactic?
Should a Rogue be able to kill a Wizard in a single stealth-daze-backstab-etc-etc combo?
Should they be able to run straight at an opponent out-of-stealth and still reliably kill them?
In my opinion, Rogues should be hit-and-run burst-action initiators and finishers. At the start of an engagement they sneak into the enemies' midst and pop their encounters in a wild flurry on targets of opportunity, preferring isolated and/or squishy prey, and then running and dodge-rolling back to their allies to let their stealth meter refill. This allows them to essentially remove the target from the fight, not by killing said target (it should take a while longer than a single combo to take down even a Control Wizard) but by making them too hurt to safely commit to the fight. Then, as the battle progresses, the Rogue repeats the tactic on targets of opportunity to finish off a foe softened-up by his allies or to soften-up another for his allies to finish.
Your build should not so much define your playstyle as complement your personal strengths and weaknesses. If you're the type who prefers to push the envelope and stay in the fray longer, then you should build down the survivability feat tree. If you prefer to kill your opponent as swiftly as possible then you should build down the offensive feat tree, sacrificing the ability to linger in a fight longer than your stealth bar lasts for more certain kills.
Again, this is all just my opinion. What are your thoughts?
**Note that I'm asking how should this class play, not so much how do they work as of BW3. I'm interested in theory-crafting, not numbers/ratio quoting.
Anywho, back on topic:
How do you Rogues think PvP should work for you? Obviously Rogues are all about single-target elimination, popping into battle behind a squishy target and taking them down as fast as possible. But digging deeper than that, how effective should a Rogue be at this tactic?
Should a Rogue be able to kill a Wizard in a single stealth-daze-backstab-etc-etc combo?
Should they be able to run straight at an opponent out-of-stealth and still reliably kill them?
In my opinion, Rogues should be hit-and-run burst-action initiators and finishers. At the start of an engagement they sneak into the enemies' midst and pop their encounters in a wild flurry on targets of opportunity, preferring isolated and/or squishy prey, and then running and dodge-rolling back to their allies to let their stealth meter refill. This allows them to essentially remove the target from the fight, not by killing said target (it should take a while longer than a single combo to take down even a Control Wizard) but by making them too hurt to safely commit to the fight. Then, as the battle progresses, the Rogue repeats the tactic on targets of opportunity to finish off a foe softened-up by his allies or to soften-up another for his allies to finish.
Your build should not so much define your playstyle as complement your personal strengths and weaknesses. If you're the type who prefers to push the envelope and stay in the fray longer, then you should build down the survivability feat tree. If you prefer to kill your opponent as swiftly as possible then you should build down the offensive feat tree, sacrificing the ability to linger in a fight longer than your stealth bar lasts for more certain kills.
Again, this is all just my opinion. What are your thoughts?
**Note that I'm asking how should this class play, not so much how do they work as of BW3. I'm interested in theory-crafting, not numbers/ratio quoting.
Post edited by rkv13 on
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I'll openly admit that I have something of a vendetta against Rogues. I enjoy playing Rogues, I enjoy having them in the games I play because they're a fun and always awesome character concept, but at the same time they are always, ALWAYS, such complete *illegitimate children. xD
All Rogues in most MMO's are the traditional assassin type who do insane amounts of burst damage on squishy targets coming out of stealth. That's what defines a Rogue in the fantasy-MMO genre, and pretty much every other genre a Rogue or even vaguely-Rogue-esk character is added. I accept that they will always be there, and that they serve a valuable purpose in these games. However, Rogues have a well-earned reputation for being overpowered. It's just SO easy for the single-target burst dps class to score the highest K/D ratios because they're so adept at killing whatever target they choose, and they always have just enough tools to get away safely. It's what they're built for, so obviously they have to be good at it, but it's such a slippery slope when trying to balance them with other classes whose roles are not so ideally geared to get high scores.
Rogues should, and will, always have incredible burst potential. But should they be able to kill someone in a single combo from stealth? Should they be able to reliably kill enemy players with such impunity? Really think about it, and also consider what it would mean for the other classes to have the same level of potency in their own roles.
If a Rogue can insta-gib a squishy in a single combo, should GF's be able to stun-lock a Rogue to death in a single encounter-power rotation? Should Clerics be able to heal themselves through an entire team's focused fire? Should a Control Wizard be capable of immobilizing a target indefinitely?
I know, with absolute certainty, that I'm going to get flamed for this post. Someone -- if not everyone -- in the Thieves' Den will be offended to have their favored class so targeted. Someone is going to say "QQ more" or "stop calling for nerfs and learn to play" or some other such aggressively ignorant overture. But I'm hoping someone will look at my question rationally and actually answer:
How good should a Rogue be at his job?
I believe a GF should be able to kill a rogue if he catches him out of stealth and the rogue doesn't have any escapes off cooldown or whatever. I think CW's should be able to immobilize a single target for quite a while but any damage should break it with only very short CC's able to stay active while being damaged. I also think clerics should be able to heal themselves through a LOT of damage. I really don't see anything wrong with a cleric being able to healtank 1-2 enemies at a time almost indefinitely BUT they should do VERY little damage to balance out their survivability. Unfortunately in this game clerics have been moved away from that role and more into a hybrid dps with some "maintenance" heals type of role. I personally really dislike this design for the cleric class and much prefer the traditional "Holy Trinity" with a tank class healer class and dps classes. Every time game designers try to "move away from Holy Trinity" and blurring the lines between all the classes it ends up failing (imo) and I fail to understand why people want to move away from it. It's tried and true and I'd say most gamers enjoy it judging by the success of the MMO's that use it. If I want to dps I'll roll a rogue/gwf not a cleric. Let the clerics stick to what they're supposed to do best (Healing) and leave the dps to the actual dps classes.
Admittedly I have somewhat limited experience with playing Neverwinter as I missed the first 2 beta weekends and only got to play for a couple hours on BWE3. But I've done a TON of research and watching videos and reading forums to get all the info that I possibly can without actually playing. I truly believe if they buffed up cleric healing and reduced their damage and buffed up GF tanking abilities and reduced their damage this game would be far better off. Along with the cleric changes though they would have to make some changes to health pots to make them less required and spammy and more of a "Oh @*#$" button for emergencies. Maybe along the lines of cutting the healing they provide by 25-50% and increasing the cooldown from 12 seconds to 30-45 seconds. I've played healers extensively in MMO's in the past and the cleric in Neverwinter just doesn't look that appealing. It's hard to WANT to play a healer when you heal for 200-500 and pots heal for like 8k every 12s. Coupled with the fact that people have like 18k+ health pools at lvl 50 let alone 60.
Wall of Text Crits you for 20,000!
I believe that's actually how it is done. As I recall whenever I PvP'd on the Beta Weekends, I was always leveled up to the next '9. 19, 29 etc. I assumed that was them balancing the field. Now, this was 3 weeks ago which is a lifetime in a beta environment so who knows how it preforms today.