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Trickster Rogue - The only class fulfilling its Role properly
bejita231
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 18 Arc User
Trickster Rogue - Amazing single target damage.... kills rares in under 5s when rolling crits, has tons of survivability and utility with his dazes and stealth abilities,great, now lets look at the other classes
Cleric, 50 point HoT at level 25 when everyone has 6k - 10k health, a AoE heal that heals for 600 on a 30 second cooldown...potions: 2000 heal 8 second cooldown, nuff said
Guardian Fighter: A shield blocking mechanic that breaks from 1 hit of a boss mob, rendering it useless for the rest of the fight, non existance aggro tools, what is this class for? the mob are playing beat the pinyata and the cleric is the pinyata
GWF: Aoe cleaves that do less damage than a rogue can cycle through each mob single targeting, zero survivability for an offtank, terrible heal strike and no utility, absolutely outclassed by the rogue in every way and has no redeeming factors
Control Wizard: "control" spells that last at most 5 seconds and effect one mob at a time, only usefull in pvp too troll the heck out of people, extremly underpowered in pve and one of the least played classes in beta
Please make other classes fulfill their roles just as good as a rogue can, i will still play my cleric, but im forced to play a DPS cleric because my heals are so piddly, this is the worst healing class i think ive ever played in an MMO, please just fix it, smart developers will just tone down the rogues damage and streamline, people may not like that (mostly rogues) but a balanced game is better than a unbalanced game where people feel like "special snowflakes"
Cleric, 50 point HoT at level 25 when everyone has 6k - 10k health, a AoE heal that heals for 600 on a 30 second cooldown...potions: 2000 heal 8 second cooldown, nuff said
Guardian Fighter: A shield blocking mechanic that breaks from 1 hit of a boss mob, rendering it useless for the rest of the fight, non existance aggro tools, what is this class for? the mob are playing beat the pinyata and the cleric is the pinyata
GWF: Aoe cleaves that do less damage than a rogue can cycle through each mob single targeting, zero survivability for an offtank, terrible heal strike and no utility, absolutely outclassed by the rogue in every way and has no redeeming factors
Control Wizard: "control" spells that last at most 5 seconds and effect one mob at a time, only usefull in pvp too troll the heck out of people, extremly underpowered in pve and one of the least played classes in beta
Please make other classes fulfill their roles just as good as a rogue can, i will still play my cleric, but im forced to play a DPS cleric because my heals are so piddly, this is the worst healing class i think ive ever played in an MMO, please just fix it, smart developers will just tone down the rogues damage and streamline, people may not like that (mostly rogues) but a balanced game is better than a unbalanced game where people feel like "special snowflakes"
Post edited by bejita231 on
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You didn't play a CW, at least not very far. This is very obvious, because if you did, then you'd know that they have multiple incredibly powerful AoE controls (Steal Time, Arcane Singularity, etc.), as well as the ability to lock down a single target literally forever. I think their CC is perfect where it's at right now; if it were any better they'd be OP. I mean, who needs damage if you can keep all mobs CC'd forever?
I dont think they are op i just think they are fun as heck.
This...
It seems like people want the Control Wizard to be some lunatic with the ability to lock down an entire fight for an infinite amount of time so they can all just sit still and pewpew stuff to death with no skill required by either them or the control wizard itself. I could go off on a tangent about how most people don't know what they're doing when they pick up the CW, but that's better saved for a different thread.
Also, if a GWF can't wipe out a group faster than a rogue can single target them down, then the problem lies in the operator, not the equipment. The GWF I was leveling with would just obliterate entire packs in 1 or 2 animations.
Combating hyperbole with hyperbole is still hyperbolic nonsense. No GWF is one shotting or two shotting entire packs. Not happening. This... this right here... is why people don't believe anything they read on the internet.
i'm recalling my play through of 'into the chasm' and i couldn't disagree more on this, you must have had some really bad runs with even worse players. our party consisted of 1 cleric, 1 control wiz, 2 rogues, and 1 gwf, and you know what we were doing? facerolling teamwork, dps was being dished out, mobs were being controlled and cleric was giving away free meds. every single time i thought to myself, where is that **** gwf? he was right next to me behind the mob dishing out deeps and going all thor on mobs. when i was like where are my healz, the cleric was right there with my oxy, and when **** hit the fan and mobs needed a time out the c wiz would throw up his super massive black hole of chill the fk out.
STRUGGLING? uMAD? QQ? NEED A GUIDE? GET SPOON FED HERE! NOMNOMNOM
The standard weak mobs it was happening. AOE pull into a not so fast would one shot the group.
If it's a pack of standard/weak/minion mobs, then yes, GWFs can easily one or two shot them. One encounter power accomplishes this: Not So Fast. Its AoE damage was quite amazing. Sometimes the mobs might have a sliver of health after that, so simply use Punishing Charge...or just use Punishing Charge in the first place. His statement wasn't hyperbolic in the least.
Past that, Control Wizards are almost where they need to be. Some powers are still useless, and some control effects may need their durations tweaked, but overall the class works.
I do not have much experience with Devoted Clerics, but they do not seem to quite be where they need to be when it comes to healing.
As for Guardian Fighters, the block mechanic needs a major, major overhaul. Against bosses you may as well not have a shield, and once you get to the Neverdeath Cemetery, even regular enemy packs will decimate your Guard Meter within a few seconds (not hyperbole - those packs with 2-3 strong enemies and 2-3 weak enemies will blow through your shield like paper in 2-3 rounds of attacks). Since the block mechanic is a Guardian Fighters only real method of avoiding enemy damage, due to no ranged attacks, minimal control effects, and no way to dodge, the state it is in makes the whole class pretty unfulfilling.
I only discovered this on the last few hours of beta. I wish I discovered it sooner, running punishing charge, not so fast and restoring strike was amazing for mobility, minion dispersion and heavy burst, making it a well balanced dps choice.
On the whole, Control Wizard fulfils it's role as control, Great Weapon Fighter fulfils it's role as minion monster, and Trickster Rogue fulfils it's role as single target dps. The only thing I noticed out of place was Guardian Fighters need work on threat and mitigation, and Devoted Clerics could use more healing and less threat.
They obviously need to figure out the bug that made GF/DC classes borked. Can't honestly use any feedback for classes from BW3
Every single cleric that has cried on the forums is over reacting on how they can't heal.
I have yet to see an upper level cleric post numbers ..... with healing and Divinity spec'd feats/paragon feats, running with Forge/Astral/ slotted encounters (3rd is usually div building dps power)
Cleric (with daunting) and GWF can 2 shot the entire spawn of adds in a few seconds... and you know exactly where they will all clump up lol
There is a delay between respawns where they can hit the boss or work some heals/debuffs etc.
I know what I was pushing for numbers as a recovery spec dps cleric, can only imagine if I was feat'd for heals lol. My best estimate by looking at the paragon line is an extra 40%
Yes Healing Word is kinda crappy, its perfect for topping up between pulls. 3stack crit was 1500 heals for the entire duration. (that is on me, add 200%+ if on a party member)
Average HoT from proximity to boss (Forge) 444/tick
Not realizing they had range i was impressed straight away, but then was sold the instant i saw the animation for Dirt Nap haha
discussing & often complaining about the imaginary.
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If you look at individual packs, yes the GWF can keep up with or even beat a rogue. If you look at averages over the course of an instance (atleast in Cloak Tower) my rogue was way better. It wasn't just me either, I played with some other GWFs and didn't see a single one taking things down the way I could as a rogue. I will admit, this was in the mid teens though...so the situation might change at higher levels.
In cloak tower I was dominating the DPS meter as a rogue also, but by the time we got mid 20's and started running the Crypts, the GWF I was playing with had a commanding dps lead over me. By 27-29 things evened out and it was a very close race. He would pull ahead on the trash, and I would catch him on the bosses, and it stayed that way into the mid 30's when we parted ways.
In the mid/high 30's I was dominating the meters again, but I suspect it was the players, not the class. The entire weekend, the only person I came across that beat or came close to my damage done was this particular GWF. Mind you we both raided with well established end game guilds in WoW for several years, him as an arms warrior, and me as a feral druid (as you can see we didn't stray far from our preferences)
LOL!! *THAT* is teamwork! That is how this puppy is supposed to be played. Good on ya, and the rest of the crew involved!
The reason the trickster rogue seems to be doing its job is because its single target dps. In most cases especially with a party the rogue is the last person the enemy is paying attention to. I believe the game calls it combat advantage when a player or enemy gets to the side, or behind an enemy. This tends to do more damage. It also seems to be doing its job at current, because the devoted cleric is drawing a lot more agro then what the guardian fighter can generate with both its enforced taunt and mark skills on a target. I'll give an example of what I mean.
I was doing the orc skirmish in clock tower district with a cleric and I believe two or three rogues, while I was the guardian fighter. The cleric was drawing more agro then me. Even if I used my enforced threat and mark skills the enemy just ignored me, and went straight for the cleric. It didn't help me the cleric was moving around so much trying to stay alive. The only thing I could do to help was mark the biggest enemy in the mob tailing the cleric, so it wouldn't do that much damage to it. The rogues were still able to do there job because the cleric was distracting the mobs with the agro it had. A great weapon fighter can't hit multiple targets either in this scenario, since the cleric would be pulling the group away from the great weapon fighter to stay alive. The control wizard also has no control skills at the level the orc skirmish happens at, so the control wizard can't do its job since it can only freeze things to keep them from moving, or pick a single target up off the ground.
In short it seems the rogue is doing its job, because the enemies are not currently focusing on the guardian fighter when it uses its threat increase skills. This makes it hard for three of the classes to do there job, and one class doesn't have the skills needed to do its job at the level of the used example. If the threat problem with clerics was fixed then I'm sure everything would work as intended.
I think Blakewood and anyone else who has reiterated this is hitting it on the head.
LOVE THE ROGUES
The other classes do need some tuning, but remember, different classes get their coming of age abilities at different points in their leveling progressing.
Without having the experience of playing every class to its cap, we really cannot yet say if a given class utterly fails to fill its role.
As someone else in this thread said, the Controller Wizard for example has very very strong CC and damage at later levels and can effectively CC a target infinitely.
Sounds like that class may be pretty close to tuned.