This has already been commented by a Dev. There will be no 10 man raids. The closest you'll get is a public area boss in Gauntletgrym or however it's spelled where it'll take multiple groups.
And what do you expect? This game will not be a hard trinity based system, it's more of a soft trinity. A cleric is not mandatory in a grp, good to have be not mandatory nor is a tank. Everything will be more reactionary and don't stand in the fire thing. All this was from Andy.
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aendaeronMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Yes you likely need to be good PvE player if you want to all raids. However for now we do not know how hard raids there will be.
And this is where raiding nowadays fails. The entire content should be accessible for everyone, else the game has no secure future as it cut off newcoming replacements for leavers itself.
Also, it is no alternative to make matchmade raids worse in gear level loot, this bears the same effect as setting the standards for raiding high. EVERYONE wants to feel mighty. And only a game that lets everyone feel mighty fares best.
Why are repetitive games such as League of Legends and World of Tanks so popular? Think about it: They have high gear content (6300+ IP champs in LoL and Tier10 tanks in WoT), yes, but reachable for everyone. And they have excellent, non-discriminating matchmaking.
If you wish high standards for raids, that's okay. Go play WoW, Rift, or whatever WoWClone you prefer. However, if NWOnline goes that way, too, NWOnline dooms itself. Too many went WoWStyle and fared badly.
This has already been commented by a Dev. There will be no 10 man raids. The closest you'll get is a public area boss in Gauntletgrym or however it's spelled where it'll take multiple groups.
And what do you expect? This game will not be a hard trinity based system, it's more of a soft trinity. A cleric is not mandatory in a grp, good to have be not mandatory nor is a tank. Everything will be more reactionary and don't stand in the fire thing. All this was from Andy.
Though I seriously hope you are right, some here have said the opposite? Do you have a link or anything to this dev statement?
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elewyndylMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
This has already been commented by a Dev. There will be no 10 man raids. The closest you'll get is a public area boss in Gauntletgrym or however it's spelled where it'll take multiple groups.
And what do you expect? This game will not be a hard trinity based system, it's more of a soft trinity. A cleric is not mandatory in a grp, good to have be not mandatory nor is a tank. Everything will be more reactionary and don't stand in the fire thing. All this was from Andy.
That comment is very old and told ages ago. Now things has changed and devs work alreayd on creating Raids so please stop spread misinformation. No raids mean there will is no raids yet at the release!
However I know there will be raids! http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EeicfJGm-k8 Skip to 3.57... RAIDS ARE CONFIRMED! WOHOO! YEEEEEES! However we still don't know how hardcore this game is in loot policy. To say it is even near as hardcore in loot system as WOW is guessing and that has not been proved. However developers have said that this game has ENDGAME and now it is confirmed that RAIDS will be released sooner or later after release. I have no idea how big raids that is unknown... 10 maybe, but that is a wild guess.
There could be however 10 player Raids AND also bigger raids like 25 I do not know raid size except certainly bigger then 5 players.Finally please do not expect soon after release Raids. Raids might be released many months or even a year after release.
remember that WOW also got raids after the release. This is a free game and we should be thankful for the content we get.
Oh while I said like ENDGAME of course like also many low-medium level FOUNDRY adventures. I am a WOW veteran, but I also liked Neverwinter Nights games etc. and I am happy we will have a community of skilled creators that create nice adventures. I finally got into the Beta at third(my first) Beta Weekend and I enjoyed PvE mainstory/campaign, PvP combat and also a good player created Foundry adventure.
So many others games follow the "me too" Raid paradigm. It literally has been done to death and while a handful of people may ask for it in Neverwinter, I can't see how it will be worth the development time or cost, and honestly I have yet to meet raiders who were happy with just adding raid content. Unless the game is all about Raiding and Raiding provides the very best of everything only to those who participate in them then it isn't worth it to the vast majority of them.
Besides it just doesn't fit into the D&D schism. As far back as I can remember D&D has been about groups of less than 10 taking on overwhelming odds.
So many others games follow the "me too" Raid paradigm. It literally has been done to death and while a handful of people may ask for it in Neverwinter, I can't see how it will be worth the development time or cost, and honestly I have yet to meet raiders who were happy with just adding raid content. Unless the game is all about Raiding and Raiding provides the very best of everything only to those who participate in them then it isn't worth it to the vast majority of them.
Besides it just doesn't fit into the D&D schism. As far back as I can remember D&D has been about groups of less than 10 taking on overwhelming odds.
Despite my above comment about Foundry Raids should give best items! Never Foundry since Foundry can be exploited. That said Foundry 5 people content could give fairly good items and I am not saying it must be so extremely hardcore as WOW in loot policy.
That said I am a former WOW raider and I enjoyed ICC raid that was extremely hardcore... at end of year 2009 WOW introduced ICC raid with 12 major bosses http://www.wowwiki.com/Icecrown_Citadel_(instance)
and the deeper you got into it the more harder it became. In year 2010 WOW made the unbroken World record of 12 million active players.
Guild Wars 2 came out after a while. Guild Wars 2 creators said no endgame is needed and no raids needed. What happened? Including my casual brother and me huge amount of people got disappointed after a while. It did not work out well at all! The only great achievment of Guild Wars 2 is the Mist PvP with 2000 players, but unfortunately that is a slideshow on most gaming laptops including mine and you need a really good desktop CPU for that.
I tried with the same laptop that was unplayable in Guild Wars 2 Mist PvP the Neverwinter third Beta weekend and I was satisfied with the performance. This game does not have full open World PvP. You can still have your roleplay session in a Foundry instance and no raiders will try to kill you there.
I enjoyed Baldurs Gate, Neverwinter Nights and WOW. This game will have Raids though after release and maybe it will take a year after release like Q2 2014 before raids are released, but so be it! As long as I don't have to listen to GW2 HAMSTER policy of no raids ever!
I enjoyed Baldurs Gate, Neverwinter Nights and WOW. This game will have Raids though after release and maybe it will take a year after release like Q2 2014 before raids are released, but so be it! As long as I don't have to listen to GW2 HAMSTER policy of no raids ever!
Just think you are expecting something out of this game that isn't going to happen. There will be challenging group content, that will require the correct gear...but that does not a Raid make.
Developers are turning away from that paradigm for good or bad this game doesn't have them, TESO isn't going to have them either. You mentioned WoW and what baffles me is WoW still has a very large very active raiding community, I just don't understand why anyone would want to wait and complain about a new game not having Raids when WoW is a raiders paradise? Even if you got you way, there simply wouldn't be a big enough audience to support it, LOTRO tired that very thing and you have a few raids that are mostly dead, it will be no different here.
Just think you are expecting something out of this game that isn't going to happen. There will be challenging group content, that will require the correct gear...but that does not a Raid make.
Developers are turning away from that paradigm for good or bad this game doesn't have them, TESO isn't going to have them either. You mentioned WoW and what baffles me is WoW still has a very large very active raiding community, I just don't understand why anyone would want to wait and complain about a new game not having Raids when WoW is a raiders paradise? Even if you got you way, there simply wouldn't be a big enough audience to support it, LOTRO tired that very thing and you have a few raids that are mostly dead, it will be no different here.
If your point is that there are many MMORPG:s that offer raids that is true. WOW, Rift etc. the list goes on. However most of those have subfee.
I am not poor by long shot. I have paid more then 500 euro for WOW gaming. The biggest challenge in this game will be for me how to avoid using real money since I am powergamer and respec costs money? That will be tough but I will not whine and do my best to adjust.
You think Raiding is the only thing that interests me in Neverwinter? No I like that 1. It is free. Currently I personally have a debt for my second apartment... and I am sure most gamers agree that they don't love subfees. 2. Action combat. Aiming like in FPS though you can not move while shooting. 3. PvP is fun also at least ok in my book. 4. PvE mainstory/quests etc is good. 5. Foundry 6. Dungeons and Heroic Dungeons at release as endgame. 7. Ok system requirements. It does need a gaming graphiccard, but CPU and RAM requirements are very low which is good. 8. Dungeons Dragons Forgotten Realms World. 9. A new world to explore and Foundry constantly adds more content to explore. Yes WOW is huge ,but I have seen it all.
Yes there are other games that offers raids. Most of them require at least that I buy them and I do prefer to use my money for other things... I sure enjoy holiday even though I have apartment debt.
I could point out that there exist Guild Wars 2 if you want a modern game that does not have any raids. No matter how negative my comments are about GW2 I would not go and criticize GW2 graphics and world design and it is a modern game.
What baffles me is that you refuse to believe lol. There will be raids sooner or later after release. Exactly how many players they will support is unknown, but more then 5 for certain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=EeicfJGm-k8 Skip to 3.57... RAIDS ARE CONFIRMED! WOHOO! YEEEEEES! However we still don't know how hardcore this game is in loot policy. To say it is even near as hardcore in loot system as WOW is guessing and that has not been proved. However developers have said that this game has ENDGAME and now it is confirmed that RAIDS will be released sooner or later after release. I have no idea how big raids that is unknown... 10 maybe, but that is a wild guess.
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lotus239Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited April 2013
While I am excited for raids, being a former WoW raider myself, I would like to know if there is any support for any groups size 2-4 players? Or if there is a post somewhere from a Dev saying that there isn't going to be support, I would ask why not? Why not just make monsters scale inside instanced areas?
I think DDO used a system that just tied you to a party ID and then when you entered dungeons, you were brought to that party's ID instance. The reason I bring it up is that I have a couple friends who seem like that they would have a lot of fun at this game, but don't really want to get into a guild scene.
So I guess my questions are:
Is there going to be support for small group, 2-4 players? if not , why?
Is there going to be some sort of scaling for quests/dungeons for that amount of players?
Why is it that they are skipping from 1 player to 5 players? In PnP D&D, there are easily group sizes from 2-X players. Why not try and integrate that?
Again, if it's been brought up already, could you point me in the way of the answers?
Thanks!
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elewyndylMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
While I am excited for raids, being a former WoW raider myself, I would like to know if there is any support for any groups size 2-4 players? Or if there is a post somewhere from a Dev saying that there isn't going to be support, I would ask why not? Why not just make monsters scale inside instanced areas?
I think DDO used a system that just tied you to a party ID and then when you entered dungeons, you were brought to that party's ID instance. The reason I bring it up is that I have a couple friends who seem like that they would have a lot of fun at this game, but don't really want to get into a guild scene.
So I guess my questions are:
Is there going to be support for small group, 2-4 players? if not , why?
Is there going to be some sort of scaling for quests/dungeons for that amount of players?
Why is it that they are skipping from 1 player to 5 players? In PnP D&D, there are easily group sizes from 2-X players. Why not try and integrate that?
Again, if it's been brought up already, could you point me in the way of the answers?
Thanks!
According to my knowledge there is no support for 2-4 player instances. If you count your companion yes then you can have 2 humanoids you the player and the NPC companion.
That is neither my choice or wish that it is so. However I can tell that Open World quests already at the Orcs are from level 10 and above becomes more dangerous so it is risk to travel alone after level 10... at least many players feel more safe if they play with another player after level 10.
As for FOUNDRY instances players can create 1 player content or 5 player content. This is not my choice. As a raid supporter I can tell that it is odd that Cryptic has not made 2-4 player instance content.
However if you do 5 player content then do it with your friends and guild members and que together and randomly you get the rest players. Example 4 friends in group want to do 5 player Dungeons they que togehter and 5th member is randomly in group or they recruit someone they meet etc.
So i want to know if anyone has gotten to 50 and started raiding with others. In SWTOR the story and gameplay was really fun but once the raiding started it was boring and filled with so many bugs that it was unplayable. I played WoW since vanilla and have loved the challenge and fun of raiding. I dont want this to be another SWTOR game where raiding wasnt tested and filled with bugs and completely boring with no skill to overcome it.
So has anyone played in some raids yet? How was the difficulty of raiding? Was it easy to get a group to raid? Was the raids fun to play? Anything else you want to talk about as well.
See bolded.
Id like to talk about pie.
No, kidding. Even if there were raids in the game, I doubt anyone has seen them yet.
Basically if there is any raid content larger than 10 mans it will be a complete waste of time. Every game that has raiding larger than 10 man raids have major issue with having more than 2% of its population doing that content. Let players create 10 man content and be done with it. Dont waste your time creating much raid content. The days of raiding is long over even if the small percent of raiders think otherwise. I been a raider since 2005 and I have not raided nor have a few dozen of my friends in the last year. Small player content is the way to go now.
While i don't necessarily agree that the hardest raids should only be accessible to 10% or so of the games population. I don't agree at all that 90% of the games population should be able to complete them. The purpose of raids was to always create challenging content with a high level reward. I raided from vanilla all thru the end of WOTLK. I saw a poster here call ICC hard. ICC was a joke. Wotlk had the most subs cuz it had the all around best raid content. Ulduar to this day was the best raid dungeon i've ever set foot in. It was very accessible to most guilds, at the same time, offered very challenging hard modes and most them had creative "triggers". The thrill of walking around in gear that not everyone has access to is what made raiding hardcore awesome. Sure, the friends were amazing. Sure, I loved the challenge of the content. But WoW was drastically dumbed down at the end of wotlk and has continued that trend by handing every casual player epics like it's nothing. I can remember walking around in orgrimmar walking around in my first set of full epics from MC/BWL being proud of how skilled my guild was. Those days are long gone. Now you can grind your way to epics easily and the challenges don't fit the rewards. LFR ruined wow. It ruined the community. How many of you remember the old days of spamming for a certain enchant in trade chat hoping someone had it cuz it was hard to obtain??? THAT BUILDS COMMUNITY. You get to know people on your server and which guilds have amazing progression. Making it so 90% of the population gets to see all the content while it's relevant ruins a community cuz you don't need a community outside of your guild to progress. Creating super challenging content with fantastic rewards like (enchants, modifications, cosmetic features) will help create a community more than people realize. It will make go OUTSIDE of your GUILD or small social circle to get something you really want. Which in turn, creates more friends, more alliances, more community. I'm not saying they should create content only 10% will clear while it's relevant. But i'm thinking a 70/30 split is somewhere in a safe zone that will not only give hardcore players a good challenge, but at the same create a community that promotes growth and relationships. We already spend most of our time isolated from society IRL when we play games online. Why should we do the same thing in our games??
The Realms have such a VAST amount of potential raiding content it is amazing. I even had some ideas for some raids that would make me as giddy as I was downing Vox and Naggy for the first time in EQ:
menzo raid - The raid starts entering Menzo for whatever story purpose. The raid would have Umberhulks, Deep Gnomes, and Drow in it. As well you would have to fight many of the spiders which reside. The matron of Banere would be the final boss, and the final phase would be a fight against the Aspect of Lollth. Another boss of it could easily be a resurrected Jaraxle (drizzt's trainer).
Heck, we could even fight Larloch in some sort of raid. SO MUCH POTENTIAL for raiding in this game.
5 ppl could maybe enter Menzo with a reasonable amount of stealth, avoid detection, and pull off their mission, survive, and live to tell the tale.
10 ppl would bring inevitable slaughter simply due to being discovered. 10 ppl ain't takin on Menzo and all it is and surviving...
So u recommend building raiding and therefore the best gear for only 10% of the playerbase. Sounds like winning formula.
Yes it is a winning formula you say its only 10% but all mmo's that have not focused on raids have failed. Raiding is great if you want your game to last you need to creat guild compition so people will want to stick around and so that the rest of you carebares droll over our gear hahahah. I dont mean dumb gw2 raids I mean awsome raid zones like wow and eq2 have.
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jn2002dk1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Yes it is a winning formula you say its only 10% but all mmo's that have not focused on raids have failed. Raiding is great if you want your game to last you need to creat guild compition so people will want to stick around and so that the rest of you carebares droll over our gear hahahah. I dont mean dumb gw2 raids I mean awsome raid zones like wow and eq2 have.
Yea and all those wow clones did great...oh wait they all failed
This is the age of casual mmos, get with the times. If anyone made their end game like vanilla wow today it would fail harder than a GWF trying to do single target dps
Comments
And what do you expect? This game will not be a hard trinity based system, it's more of a soft trinity. A cleric is not mandatory in a grp, good to have be not mandatory nor is a tank. Everything will be more reactionary and don't stand in the fire thing. All this was from Andy.
Also, it is no alternative to make matchmade raids worse in gear level loot, this bears the same effect as setting the standards for raiding high. EVERYONE wants to feel mighty. And only a game that lets everyone feel mighty fares best.
Why are repetitive games such as League of Legends and World of Tanks so popular? Think about it: They have high gear content (6300+ IP champs in LoL and Tier10 tanks in WoT), yes, but reachable for everyone. And they have excellent, non-discriminating matchmaking.
If you wish high standards for raids, that's okay. Go play WoW, Rift, or whatever WoWClone you prefer. However, if NWOnline goes that way, too, NWOnline dooms itself. Too many went WoWStyle and fared badly.
Yeah and while I said this: remember that WOW also got raids after the release. This is a free game and we should be thankful for the content we get.
Oh while I said like ENDGAME of course like also many low-medium level FOUNDRY adventures. I am a WOW veteran, but I also liked Neverwinter Nights games etc. and I am happy we will have a community of skilled creators that create nice adventures. I finally got into the Beta at third(my first) Beta Weekend and I enjoyed PvE mainstory/campaign, PvP combat and also a good player created Foundry adventure.
Besides it just doesn't fit into the D&D schism. As far back as I can remember D&D has been about groups of less than 10 taking on overwhelming odds.
That said I am a former WOW raider and I enjoyed ICC raid that was extremely hardcore... at end of year 2009 WOW introduced ICC raid with 12 major bosses
http://www.wowwiki.com/Icecrown_Citadel_(instance)
and the deeper you got into it the more harder it became. In year 2010 WOW made the unbroken World record of 12 million active players.
Guild Wars 2 came out after a while. Guild Wars 2 creators said no endgame is needed and no raids needed. What happened? Including my casual brother and me huge amount of people got disappointed after a while. It did not work out well at all! The only great achievment of Guild Wars 2 is the Mist PvP with 2000 players, but unfortunately that is a slideshow on most gaming laptops including mine and you need a really good desktop CPU for that.
I tried with the same laptop that was unplayable in Guild Wars 2 Mist PvP the Neverwinter third Beta weekend and I was satisfied with the performance. This game does not have full open World PvP. You can still have your roleplay session in a Foundry instance and no raiders will try to kill you there.
I enjoyed Baldurs Gate, Neverwinter Nights and WOW. This game will have Raids though after release and maybe it will take a year after release like Q2 2014 before raids are released, but so be it! As long as I don't have to listen to GW2 HAMSTER policy of no raids ever!
Just think you are expecting something out of this game that isn't going to happen. There will be challenging group content, that will require the correct gear...but that does not a Raid make.
Developers are turning away from that paradigm for good or bad this game doesn't have them, TESO isn't going to have them either. You mentioned WoW and what baffles me is WoW still has a very large very active raiding community, I just don't understand why anyone would want to wait and complain about a new game not having Raids when WoW is a raiders paradise? Even if you got you way, there simply wouldn't be a big enough audience to support it, LOTRO tired that very thing and you have a few raids that are mostly dead, it will be no different here.
I am not poor by long shot. I have paid more then 500 euro for WOW gaming. The biggest challenge in this game will be for me how to avoid using real money since I am powergamer and respec costs money? That will be tough but I will not whine and do my best to adjust.
You think Raiding is the only thing that interests me in Neverwinter? No I like that
1. It is free. Currently I personally have a debt for my second apartment... and I am sure most gamers agree that they don't love subfees.
2. Action combat. Aiming like in FPS though you can not move while shooting.
3. PvP is fun also at least ok in my book.
4. PvE mainstory/quests etc is good.
5. Foundry
6. Dungeons and Heroic Dungeons at release as endgame.
7. Ok system requirements. It does need a gaming graphiccard, but CPU and RAM requirements are very low which is good.
8. Dungeons Dragons Forgotten Realms World.
9. A new world to explore and Foundry constantly adds more content to explore. Yes WOW is huge ,but I have seen it all.
Yes there are other games that offers raids. Most of them require at least that I buy them and I do prefer to use my money for other things... I sure enjoy holiday even though I have apartment debt.
I could point out that there exist Guild Wars 2 if you want a modern game that does not have any raids. No matter how negative my comments are about GW2 I would not go and criticize GW2 graphics and world design and it is a modern game.
What baffles me is that you refuse to believe lol. There will be raids sooner or later after release. Exactly how many players they will support is unknown, but more then 5 for certain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=EeicfJGm-k8
Skip to 3.57... RAIDS ARE CONFIRMED! WOHOO! YEEEEEES! However we still don't know how hardcore this game is in loot policy. To say it is even near as hardcore in loot system as WOW is guessing and that has not been proved. However developers have said that this game has ENDGAME and now it is confirmed that RAIDS will be released sooner or later after release. I have no idea how big raids that is unknown... 10 maybe, but that is a wild guess.
I think DDO used a system that just tied you to a party ID and then when you entered dungeons, you were brought to that party's ID instance. The reason I bring it up is that I have a couple friends who seem like that they would have a lot of fun at this game, but don't really want to get into a guild scene.
So I guess my questions are:
Is there going to be support for small group, 2-4 players? if not , why?
Is there going to be some sort of scaling for quests/dungeons for that amount of players?
Why is it that they are skipping from 1 player to 5 players? In PnP D&D, there are easily group sizes from 2-X players. Why not try and integrate that?
Again, if it's been brought up already, could you point me in the way of the answers?
Thanks!
That is neither my choice or wish that it is so. However I can tell that Open World quests already at the Orcs are from level 10 and above becomes more dangerous so it is risk to travel alone after level 10... at least many players feel more safe if they play with another player after level 10.
As for FOUNDRY instances players can create 1 player content or 5 player content. This is not my choice. As a raid supporter I can tell that it is odd that Cryptic has not made 2-4 player instance content.
However if you do 5 player content then do it with your friends and guild members and que together and randomly you get the rest players. Example 4 friends in group want to do 5 player Dungeons they que togehter and 5th member is randomly in group or they recruit someone they meet etc.
See bolded.
Id like to talk about pie.
No, kidding. Even if there were raids in the game, I doubt anyone has seen them yet.
5 ppl could maybe enter Menzo with a reasonable amount of stealth, avoid detection, and pull off their mission, survive, and live to tell the tale.
10 ppl would bring inevitable slaughter simply due to being discovered. 10 ppl ain't takin on Menzo and all it is and surviving...
So u recommend building raiding and therefore the best gear for only 10% of the playerbase. Sounds like winning formula.
Yes it is a winning formula you say its only 10% but all mmo's that have not focused on raids have failed. Raiding is great if you want your game to last you need to creat guild compition so people will want to stick around and so that the rest of you carebares droll over our gear hahahah. I dont mean dumb gw2 raids I mean awsome raid zones like wow and eq2 have.
This is the age of casual mmos, get with the times. If anyone made their end game like vanilla wow today it would fail harder than a GWF trying to do single target dps