test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Clerics + Aggro, wtf?

2

Comments

  • prunetracyprunetracy Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I'm saying that I've been in a boss fight that was 10 minutes long with spawning adds and I didn't have perma aggro, despite using Divinity Forgemaster's Flame on cooldown with high Astral Seal uptime.

    From what I'm hearing (and what I experienced at level 16), that should have put everything on me permanently. I'm trying to help narrow down what the problem is. Namely: is it a bug at certain levels or feat selection, or is it just numbers tuned improperly.

    I'm looking for a cleric who has 3/3 reduced threat who is having aggro issues. I have the feat and I am not.
  • manzorianmanzorian Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    prunetracy wrote: »
    I'm saying that I've been in a boss fight that was 10 minutes long with spawning adds and I didn't have perma aggro, despite using Divinity Forgemaster's Flame on cooldown with high Astral Seal uptime.

    From what I'm hearing (and what I experienced at level 16), that should have put everything on me permanently. I'm trying to help narrow down what the problem is. Namely: is it a bug at certain levels or feat selection, or is it just numbers tuned improperly.

    I'm looking for a cleric who has 3/3 reduced threat who is having aggro issues. I have the feat and I am not.

    I have the 3/3 reduced threat & the aggro is outrageous in dungeons. Solo, I could care less. However, when I'm in a dungeon group & cast a single heal spell on a party member & have the whole room of mobs pile on me, there is something wrong.

    It needs to be fixed & reset to how it was during beta2 weekend.

    My Cleric is L30 by the way.
  • koriel8koriel8 Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    The aggro for clerics is simply broken. Clerics now aggro the whole room. DPS simply will not pull the aggro away, even if the cleric stops fighting. Combined with nerf of cleric self-heals only having 50% effectiveness now, clerics are literally in a world of hurt.
  • irithaeirithae Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    frost168 wrote: »
    What people fail to realize is the MOBS are running their own "daily" events in each area. They get points for killing clerics thereby increasing their chance at cool rune stones and sigils ;) LOL

    bwaaaahahahahahaha!!!!!!
  • urnusthebeatpoeturnusthebeatpoet Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I played a cleric for the whole beta weekend. Got to 35. I loved playing it, but healing aggro was insane. I'd toss a healing hands regen on someone who wasn't in my party as they ran by. A minute later, I'd have 2-3 half dead doods running my way from all the way across the map. See, the random guy I tossed the regen on engaged them, knocked them to half health or less, and they still took off to track me down and find me. It was INSANE!

    Also, while my damage AND healing felt WAY OP early on, by about 25 I started noticing that my healing barely seemed to heal me at all (it would take 5ish healing hands to get me 1/3rd of my health). By 30, I noticed that my healing was doing very little for other people, and basically nothing at all for me. And around the same time, I noticed my damage dropping off pretty dramatically too. I don't think ANYTHING the cleric does is scaling well/properly. It's defiantly an issue.
  • l1zardo1l1zardo1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    L32 I was getting 1500 Holy Word crits (total healed for the dot) Its ok. Low-ish wisdom and only 3% added healing from feats. Including my new heal debuff.*

    By that level I got another Forgemaster upgrade, and with my 28% recovery bonus, I could keep that astral fire debuff/heal up almost 100%. Broke 400 with that, non critical.*

    I did have a few HW casts on friendlies do the same lol. 1 min later getting bumrushed by his mobs from far away.
  • joeldgnjoeldgn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 76
    edited March 2013
    Go "movement" cleric, toss a single seal up once and then kite every mob in the boss room for the rest of the fight while everyone else wails on it... win
  • babylonbabylon Member, Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    joeldgn wrote: »
    Go "movement" cleric, toss a single seal up once and then kite every mob in the boss room for the rest of the fight while everyone else wails on it... win

    That doesn't sound very much fun. Played games where you had to kite mobs around while everyone else whacked it down...though usually we'd only do that while trying to powerlevel on some mobs 30+ levels higher than us...and that was back in early 2000s.

    Nobody really wanted to be the kiter btw, it was like drawing the short straw (we'd take turns, "taking one for the team").

    Didn't think games like that still existed...LOL.
    THIS IS CLERIC AGGRO IN BW3
  • stormhammystormhammy Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    babylon wrote: »
    Nobody really wanted to be the kiter btw, it was like drawing the short straw (we'd take turns, taking "one for the team").

    Didn't think games like that still existed...LOL.

    Aye, still exists. As long as the benefits outweigh the risks. (I.E if we get bored/impatient & calculate that the time saved of speccing everyone for DPS vs having a regular tank is worth it or not.)

    Especially since NWO has a "Combat Advantage" mechanic & now that Clerics have a ridiculous amount of aggro.
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows./Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope.
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
  • babylonbabylon Member, Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    stormhammy wrote: »
    Aye, still exists. As long as the benefits outweigh the risks. (I.E if we get bored/impatient & calculate that the time saved of speccing everyone for DPS vs having a regular tank is worth it or not.)

    Especially since NWO has a "Combat Advantage" mechanic & now that Clerics have a ridiculous amount of aggro.

    Well right now there is no point having a Guardian Fighter in the group, because he's not tanking and he's not doing enough damage to take up a slot that a DD could fill.
    THIS IS CLERIC AGGRO IN BW3
  • stormhammystormhammy Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    babylon wrote: »
    Well right now there is no point having a Guardian Fighter in the group, because he's not tanking and he's not doing enough damage to take up a slot that a DD could fill.

    Exactly.
    Though a GF can actually tank decently, GFs lack a decent method of generating aggro which makes it a waste as all that tanking power goes unused.
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows./Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope.
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
  • babylonbabylon Member, Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    stormhammy wrote: »
    Exactly.
    Though a GF can actually tank decently, GFs lack a decent method of generating aggro which makes it a waste as all that tanking power goes unused.

    They're obviously going to have to fix it because it's so awful it's just hilarious, so not toooooo worried about the aggro mechanic problem for this weekend.

    This is what this beta weekend's aggro mechanic was like - Benny Hill chase scene

    They also need to fix the self-heal, that nerf is just brutal - makes class way too weak solo, and for 5 mans unless you bring a second cleric in dungeon to heal the other cleric and vice versa, the cleric will still always have to pot more than any other class.
    THIS IS CLERIC AGGRO IN BW3
  • jhooljhool Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I got turned off the game playing my cleric this weekend.

    It was a chore to solo and group play was, as babylon said above, like a Benny Hill chase scene.

    I definitely wont be buying the founders pack unless the game improves a lot before launch.
  • mogwaimogwai Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    in group PvP you kill the clerics 1st
    it has less to do with aggro & more to do with better AI than we've been
    accustomed to in traditional mmo's
    mmorpg is R'lyehian for: Innumerable quantities of grown babies
    discussing & often complaining about the imaginary.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=1618000&dateline=1316204434[/SIGPIC]
  • babylonbabylon Member, Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    mogwai wrote: »
    in group PvP you kill the clerics 1st
    it has less to do with aggro & more to do with better AI than we've been
    accustomed to in traditional mmo's

    Haha..."better AI" this guy is such a laugh.

    Sure leave it that way if you don't want ANYONE playing a healer in your dungeons. You can heal yourself and also buy the $15 health stone from the cash shop :p
    THIS IS CLERIC AGGRO IN BW3
  • mogwaimogwai Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Why not? everyone says it's easy when they are soloing stuff. I never needed to party yet, solo'd everything as GF (41) & now TR (32).
    ijs, we wanted to play a ~new type of mmo & they gave it to us. it's not only the targeting system that has changed.
    mmorpg is R'lyehian for: Innumerable quantities of grown babies
    discussing & often complaining about the imaginary.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=1618000&dateline=1316204434[/SIGPIC]
  • babylonbabylon Member, Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    mogwai wrote: »
    Why not? everyone says it's easy when they are soloing stuff. I never needed to party yet, solo'd everything as GF (41) & now TR (32).

    You have no experience with playing a cleric, and no experience with grouping with a cleric, yet are sitting there telling us we deserve to be nerfed like we got this weekend?

    Even the devs know they screwed up. Everyone is telling them how badly, except for about 2 or 3 people like yourself that basically have no clue about the gameplay.
    THIS IS CLERIC AGGRO IN BW3
  • mogwaimogwai Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    now your talking about nerfs...what we were talking about was aggro

    as far as aggro is concerned the party needs to be set up differently
    let the tank, tank on boss only while everyone else is gathers around the cleric instead of DD'ing the boss.
    this way the cleric can still be the life of the party.

    & fyi, i didn't roll a cleric because i knew it'd be one of the classes that would be marked for adjustment during CB testing.
    how's that for cleric experience?
    mmorpg is R'lyehian for: Innumerable quantities of grown babies
    discussing & often complaining about the imaginary.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=1618000&dateline=1316204434[/SIGPIC]
  • babylonbabylon Member, Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    mogwai wrote: »
    now your talking about nerfs...what we were talking about was aggro

    as far as aggro is concerned the party needs to be set up differently
    let the tank, tank on boss only while everyone else is gathers around the cleric instead of DD'ing the boss.
    this way the cleric can still be the life of the party.

    & fyi, i didn't roll a cleric because i knew it'd be one of the classes that would be marked for adjustment during CB testing.
    how's that for cleric experience?

    Pretty bad actually^ Point is the class got nerfed, and the aggro mechanic was terrible. You wouldn't know that, because you 1) didn't play a cleric and 2) didn't group at all.
    THIS IS CLERIC AGGRO IN BW3
  • l1zardo1l1zardo1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I honestly only had issues on the endless adds during boss encounters. You don't have to heal the party much since you know where 90% of the mobs/aggro is.

    There is time between the waves, and most can be dropped with a daily and a div+daunting. Having one other help cover you for that 50% of the time makes it far less stress.

    I posted quite a few times. I don't know any other class mechanic that will generate hate on all those waves. The first thing they encounter are party heals and perhaps sunburst damage. No one else will have done jack to them in that initial window.

    How will they tweak that exactly. Pretty sure I described how, but its player-side not the game lol. There was some bugs though (like I said about one renew grabbing aggro over some random guy who had it to 50% already)

    Honestly, I would do that too lol. Why keep beating on the guy who is getting healed? Discuss.

    :p
  • frost168frost168 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    What the devs, and the people reading this need to know from all the agro comments, is what level your cleric is that you are basing your experience from.

    I have three characters created from all the betas. a level 44 cleric, a level 32 cleric and a 23 GWF . < wanted to see a new path on a cleric. one for solo build. one for group build>

    I can clearly state from what I saw, agro changed completely when the clerics began doing the level 25+ encounters. the level 35+ <think the dungeon was 38 ish??> was totally nuts for a cleric.

    At low levels, especially doing the tower <level 16 dungeon> was a typical dungeon crawl. This changed at the higher end when mobs took longer to kill, more mobs were spawned as adds and the mini boss's and boss fights took 10min each. The problems of the cleric agro became very apparent.

    compared to beta 2, this mid range level stuff, drew much more agro this time for beta 3. I would hate to see what the level 55+ areas would be like with the cleric running beta 3 design. As I've stated in multiple threads already. The cleric companion is the true healer, but even it draws a ton of agro at upper levels. 20% hps back is OP imo. Every tank I grouped with had one in dungeons cause it outhealed my cleric, and was more reliable. I spent my time running for my life and quaffing potions.

    Tanks no longer need potions with their OP cleric companion. The class needs to be fixed, NO agro generated from our weak heals, and lower the healing power of the companion clerics, or there simply will be no need to group with a cleric.

    Cleric companions are the true healers in neverwinter according to Beta 3....
  • l1zardo1l1zardo1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    indeed. There will be a point where the mobs stay up longer, deal more damage and the slim chance you had becomes zero chance
  • mogwaimogwai Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    babylon wrote: »
    Pretty bad actually^ Point is the class got nerfed, and the aggro mechanic was terrible. You wouldn't know that, because you 1) didn't play a cleric and 2) didn't group at all.

    The class got nerfed: yet still generates enormous aggro..this means it's not
    actually mechanical aggro, it's AI priority aggro (kill clerics 1st).

    I would know from observing the AI reactions to my cleric companions actions (named it Tarded Kamakaze),
    AND from carefully reading/evaluating nearly every aggro thread that's been posted.
    mmorpg is R'lyehian for: Innumerable quantities of grown babies
    discussing & often complaining about the imaginary.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=1618000&dateline=1316204434[/SIGPIC]
  • babylonbabylon Member, Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    mogwai wrote: »
    I would know from observing the AI reactions to my cleric companions actions (named it Tarded Kamakaze),
    AND from carefully reading/evaluating nearly every aggro thread that's been posted.

    Not the same as actually experiencing it - if you had, you would've been like the rest of us and saying "FIX IT NAO" rather than saying how great and incredibly clever it was.
    mogwai wrote: »
    in group PvP you kill the clerics 1st
    it has less to do with aggro & more to do with better AI than we've been
    accustomed to in traditional mmo's

    Aggro/AI - it's still poor mechanics.
    THIS IS CLERIC AGGRO IN BW3
  • mogwaimogwai Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    whether or not they change stuff around again, currently this is what is needed...
    the theory is still the same "protect the cleric"
    NWwinSetup_zps315fd7e7.jpg

    this is only one example of my paint mastery

    this should make the tank more easily targetable & party heal will mean something as most of ya are in range. as for the heal nerf idk your on your own with that XD
    mmorpg is R'lyehian for: Innumerable quantities of grown babies
    discussing & often complaining about the imaginary.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=1618000&dateline=1316204434[/SIGPIC]
  • babylonbabylon Member, Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Yep, but nobody will want to play the cleric under that scenario. So forget playing pve like a pvp battle where everyone kills the healer. kthxbai
    THIS IS CLERIC AGGRO IN BW3
  • mogwaimogwai Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    forum is simply polluted with this topic
    but as some relief from another thread...
    dezstravus wrote: »
    Hey All,

    Thanks! We're actively tweaking the synergy* of healing and agro. It's on the list of things we're tracking and gathering feedback for during beta. We'll keep a look out for more reports on this topic, so please feel free to continue sharing your thoughts. :)

    *Just wanted to use a cool word.
    mmorpg is R'lyehian for: Innumerable quantities of grown babies
    discussing & often complaining about the imaginary.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=1618000&dateline=1316204434[/SIGPIC]
  • shphgrshphgr Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    mogwai wrote: »
    whether or not they change stuff around again, currently this is what is needed...
    the theory is still the same "protect the cleric"
    NWwinSetup_zps315fd7e7.jpg

    this is only one example of my paint mastery

    this should make the tank more easily targetable & party heal will mean something as most of ya are in range. as for the heal nerf idk your on your own with that XD

    it still wouldn't work. if anything, it would be worse.

    the reason is that we need to attack to build up divine since we really rely on divine to heal for any amount of damage (divine+firgemaster's, divine +aoe heal, divine+knockback, simple divine and channelling our right click and etc)

    as everything in this game, attacking makes you stationary. being stationary while mobs whale at you is instant death for us since we have 0 mitigration, noblock, no nothing. So, even in your scenario: adds spawn->they tunnelvision the cleric who starts running around so as not to die, drinking pots while doing so since our heals are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on ourself. sometime later the dps kill the adds, all this time the cleric has either: a)drank potions while whailing on the adds/boss/whatever and has divine to heal, or b)run around like chiken and doing nothing

    in option a)obviously it's unfair that we have to drink 1million pots/boss while the other people don't.
    in option b)the cleric is out of divine, and has to start attacking for a good 5-6secs before he can heal, add to that the timeframe where the cleric was doing nothing except running around, and you have a big time frame without healing for no apparent reason.

    your option would be even worse that what we have now, because it is hard atm to target the tank (i don't complain about it, if anyting, i LIKE the way targetting works) but if you encircle the cleric with everyother party member+companion to "block" the adds, then it becomes simply impossible to target the tank.

    as it stands, the most annoying problem is: IT IS NOT FUN to simply run around dodging mobs since you can't defend against them. what you are saying is fine can be compared to a dps that has a mechanic that says: everytime adds spawn everything becomes immune to damage until the healer+tank clear up the adds. because in effect, what is happening is that everytime adds spawn, the cleric has to stop healing and start running around, kiting, aoe-ing and mainly drinking pots.

    in more seriousness now, i don't think that it is THAT easy to fix this problem in general the way healing works atm. The problem is that even if healing generated 0.001% of the aggro it generates now, the scenario goes like that: adds spawn from a door or somewhere away from the boss-> a random guy damages the boss which has seal on it->healer gets aggro since he "healed" through the shield (my guess, but even without casting a heal when the adds spawn, they still come straight to me)->healer starts potting

    a way that this could be fixed is with healing generating 0 aggro BUT the act of CASTING a healing spell generated a fixed amount of it. so a heal from seal generates 0 aggro, but casting seal again generated x amount of aggro. same thing will be true for every kind of heal (like our hot, forgemaster's flame, etc) since most of our heals heal over time in one way or another.

    the second way to fix this would be to give the tank an enormous aoe taunt that lasted a good 6-7secs on a low cooldown, but that would break a lot more things than what it would fix.
  • wolfsong84wolfsong84 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    as it stands, the most annoying problem is: IT IS NOT FUN to simply run around dodging mobs since you can't defend against them. what you are saying is fine can be compared to a dps that has a mechanic that says: everytime adds spawn everything becomes immune to damage until the healer+tank clear up the adds. because in effect, what is happening is that everytime adds spawn, the cleric has to stop healing and start running around, kiting, aoe-ing and mainly drinking pots.

    This.

    /10char
  • cjovalle76cjovalle76 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    With my 21 cleric, I generated more aggro from the NPCs in dungeons than from PCs in PVP. :P It was rough, especially in a pick-up group where people ran from encounter to encounter with the HoT still on. I had some encounters where I could only use one power (left-click) or draw all aggro... even astral seal drew everything to me.

    If it is going to be even a hint of "AI" based, then make sure it's only intelligent creatures going after the healer. :P
Sign In or Register to comment.