Once you get used to them, they're not that bad. Their 'dodge' mechanic is a bit unusual and you have to do a lot of positioning. They're fun once you get the hang of it though.
Oh... and psst. You might die from time to time. It's okay. It happens.
I think he's being facetious. However, on the armor point, he's correct. AC and other stats seem to have little effect on incoming or outgoing damage. The numbers are primarily for show, the "heal" from the encounter power even at level 20 heals for less than a potion.
Ah, heck, it heals for less than one auto-attack from a bad guy. The basic mechanics work, but it's accurate to say that wizards have more mitigation from CC than you do from armor, well, up to level 33.
0
googenstienMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited March 2013
I have seen the D&D rulebook nerds bash every game system from Temple of Elemental Evil, NWN1, NWN2, DDO.. and then years later in hindsight those games get praise compared to a new game trying to incorporate the rather daunting D&D rule set.
I think this game does do a good job of being an action based MMO... I dont know how that transcends to endgame and longterm, but its fun for what it is.
Well, from a non D&D player and a MMO player. The leveling is fine to me. (flame away). It needs to be kept simple. In fact there are several jargon that are confusing to a non-D&D player, I figure I'll learn them but...you get the point.
I figure this game is trying to find a halfway point between being in the D&D world and MMO culture. It does a decent job of that, and it's fun.
0
classicenergyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited March 2013
I will put my feedback about my experience with beta 2 & 3
First and foremost people bashing about this game being unfinished and needs a lot of work I will have to say do you even know what closed beta means?
1. Closed beta versions are released to a restricted group of individuals for a user test by invitation, while open beta testers are from a larger group, or anyone interested. The testers report any bugs that they find, and sometimes suggest additional features they think should be available in the final version.
2. How many of you actually used the bug/feedback in the game and reported any bugs/feedback you encountered?
3. For people saying that leveling is too hard, please get a grip of what an MMO is and how leveling works. You level with quests plain and simple. I found the story as I leveled intriguing and if you actually spend time reading the quest text you will understand that the devs do put a lot of work in this.
4. I was able to get to 50 and enjoy most of the high level content and I must say that some of the maps look stunning and environments are not finished of course.
5. Keyboard turning is not going to happen in this game. The combat as it is its really fun and actually makes avoiding spells from mobs mandatory.
6. Dungeons and Skirmishes are a nice way of earning Seals which you can exchange for better gear. Some of the boss fights are not complete and this is why they would appreciate feedback and report bugs.
I will end my post here and say that this game has a lot of potential. I understand its not for everyone and comparing it to the other MMO's will not make you look forward to this game on release. I would wait for an open beta and let the devs work on what they gathered from all the feedback in these 2 closed beta we had.
With the slew of dissapointing MMOs I've played over the last few years, this game went beyond my expectations. Needs some work, but if I'm not play ESO by the time the Neverwinter open beta comes around, I'll be playing.
8/10. Would be nice to have more active/passive skill options, but with a model like this I see how stuff like that can be added down the line. I suppose any model could add more skills down the line, now that I think about it... in any case that's my only complaint (assuming the levelling speed will be scaled down during open beta/release).
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
porrageMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited March 2013
I've got a few thoughts on the Class/Leveling system, and I figured I'd post them here.
I've played a Trickster Rogue up to level 15, and my biggest issue thus far is that I feel there isn't nearly enough variety in the powers. As an MMO player I've come to expect having plenty of options within my class to tweak my character in combat. As a 4e D&D player I expected to have a wide array of At-Will, Encounter, and Daily powers to choose from when creating my ideal build. Unfortunately I'm already at the point where I have no desire to play because my options are so limited in regards to the Trickster Rogue's powers. I think part of the problem is that classes are being artificially divided.
For example: We've got a "Great Weapon Fighter" and a "Guardian Fighter." In the source material, these were "suggested builds" that players were free to disregard. The whole reason these builds are suggested are so that new players can jump right in and make a good character relatively quickly. They are meant to fill specific roles in combat, which is why there were suggested builds in the first place (similar to how we have different roles in MMOs).
When you made a Fighter in D&D, you had access to all the Fighter's powers. There wasn't this bizarre segregation where you only had access to half the class powers. You could easily choose one of the suggested builds, or you could mix and match the powers on your own. Which was fun. I don't even know why the Neverwinter developers insisted on using the "suggested builds" from the D&D handbook, especially considering they didn't even give the proper builds the proper powers. I realize that the developers couldn't possibly adhere to everything in the source books, but having said that, splitting the classes down the middle is bad from an MMO standpoint. Forcing players into a specific build at character creation is the equivalent of starting a Priest in World of Warcraft and immediately having to choose between Discipline Priest, Holy Priest, or Shadow Priest, and only being able to use 1/3 of the Priest's abilities. Maybe this changes in higher levels, but early on it feels like I have zero variety in my powers. I've only played a Rogue at this point, so I'm not sure how the powers feel for other classes.
I realize it would be a lot of work, but if there are two Rogue classes (the other being "Brawny" if they're going by the source book), I'd rather them being combined into a single class and have all their powers accessible for me to build my own Rogue, be it Trickster, Brawny, or something in between. Remember that I haven't seen the other Rogue class, whatever it may be, so I'm just sorta winging it with my observation/suggestion. Maybe someone who has played both the Guardian Fighter and Great Weapon Fighter could chime in.
I would rather see Cryptic take their time and fix this thing than watch them release it in anything close to its current state. I don't think the game as it is will hold players for long. I know that Cryptic can make a good game. They made City of Heroes. Then they started releasing things too early and giving them no support. Oh, and stopped listening to or communicating with players.
I say take out the PvP, move back towards 4e DnD. PvP is generally the smallest section of MMO players. MMOs are held to be low skill games anyway, and most PvPers prefer MOBA style games or are playing the MMO while awaiting the new shiny FPS. The loyal customers that spend money in MMOs are roleplayers and PvE players. It just so happens that they are also the people that played NWN and NWN2. Why not appeal to them?
Well said X2
0
nwnpredMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I understand that this is an MMO and not a tabletop simulator. But DDO is an MMO, and it handles DnD rules much better than this. Sadly, that's about the only thing it does better.
I love almost everything about this game. The only thing I don't love is the ludicrously restrictive leveling system. There's no meaningful customization at all. Everyone loves WoW so much and keeps using it as an example, so I'll do the same. Every class there has 2-3 good leveling paths to choose from. Neverwinter classes seem to be stuck leveling along a single path, with no room for the player to make any important decisions about how to build the character. Balance is one thing, but making everyone identical is something else.
Case in point: Control Wizard. Beyond the rather unexciting fact that this is a wizard that for some reason only uses ice and force spells (which, again, the player has no choice over), you level up gaining these abilities in an alternating manner. Why not have an ice tree of spells, a force tree, and some other tree? Why must I struggle to use two separate mechanics that don't have synergy with each other? More importantly, why can't I pick spells? Why isn't it my choice to use sleep or web instead of ice? The other classes are similar. The original 4e Player's Handbook has a number of powers at each level for the player to choose from. Granted, some don't translate well to a game. But having only one power that you are stuck with each time you get a power is just wrong.
I understand the appeal of PvP, but what good is beating someone if you didn't even get to pick your build? It's difficult for me to see value in my character if it's actually the developers' character that I got to name and play as.
Indeed this is not a role-playing game! as it originally was designed to be - so individual character building as the original design of D&D intended was?
Okay what am I talking about as an original player of the D&D in the 60s (so all of you could almost call me a fizzban from the original characters!). I'm pretty old, a little senile, and I have to try and remember how the story started, oh yes, this is how it started way back in the early 60s.
A bunch friends started recording the D&D game they were playing, henceforth. Which became a bestselling story in the Lancet series, and then Boiware came along and produced a game like Never Winter Nights. Oh, but there was a lengthy court case over the characters which is why we do not have a kender but have a halfling instead and so on. Now, that may seem like a really strange thing to happen to a few guys playing a board game and then a gaming software company comes along and buys the character rights and makes a successful game like NWN! What made it successful was the individual characters and the uniqueness of their character traits, and that each build was unique, therefore many hours and many nights and year later your character is still worth playing, oh dear am I
waffling on again? So ends the little history lesson. You see in the early years testing was done by the developers / testing team, but in recent years it is a lot easier
and cheaper to get testers from the gaming community than to pay the developers to test the game or product. Is this adhoc testing approach worthwhile? - that remains to be seen {what a corporate world we live in!!!}
Now my problem with neverwinter is:
where are the classes
where are the sub races
where is the uniqueness in each individual build that makes a character worth playing
where is the monk, druid, dragon deciples etc.
why are we playing the perfect world game machine
too easy to play - will be bored soon with the same build as others
Me and the group of friends I had playing with me this last weekend had a lot of fun. We've all been playing MMOs since EQ and have been in many betas. We all found the game play addicting and the content engaging. I'm happy with the direction of the game and look forward to its release.
0
silentsooyunMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited March 2013
Disappointing. I might play for a bit after release, but this game is not even remotely D&D. If I want to play a Fighter, I get to choose between a class that's sword-and-board or a class that's two-handed sword. So... what if I want to play a Fighter that uses a bow? Or an axe? Or two axes? Now I must wait for that class to come out, it seems. And I absolutely guarantee that the only Fighter using a bow will be a Ranger. And the Cleric is a frelling joke. Pure caster? Really? The way I remember D&D Clerics, they were about shield and smashing and support spells, with healz to come after (or during, if the Fighter got stupid).
I am having fun at the moment with my low-level Trickster (despite being a pale shadow of a D&D Rogue), but I don't expect that to last once the newness wears off. Diablo-frelling-3 has more character variation and customisation... and a nearly identical playstyle.
pavjareckiMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited March 2013
I would like to see a larger variety of powers available to classes, and not just upgrades on the basic few we get at the lower levels. After incorporating more powers, more tabs available to hold these extra powers. I remember in the first NWN as a sorcerer, there were many powers to choose from and each one was unique as one gained levels (30). There was sufficient room on the tabs to hold most if not all of these powers.
I would rather see Cryptic take their time and fix this thing than watch them release it in anything close to its current state.
I really think developers are going to have to forget about releasing it soon. I want to like this game, I hope they kinda start again with the classes and make the release date later.
0
thekaukyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
I think its a great MMO and has a lot people that people are complaining about, your class does have a lot of choice, 3 rogues in one group and not one the same build. Interesting puzzles and questing system and once foundry is out a great tool. But then again I got two classes to over 20... and gave the game a fair chance, got a companion, out of starter zone.... GOOD job Cryptic so far looks good and can't wait for release.
0
thecainMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
I found the game kind of boring, save for the group content, which was fun and engaging. There's a massive lack of choice, and the interface and features are very bland. Gone are the deep companions that made you want to learn about them and help them, instead we have the stereotypical systems of an MMO Action game mixed with D&D. While I admit the game is decent, I don't feel like I'm actually building a character. I feel like I'm on a treadmill, creating only what the creators let me, both from the poor dice rolling system for stats (who thought that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up?), and the lack of skills, just so they could pidgeon hole you into 1 of 2 archetype classes (Guardian Fighter, Great Weapon Fighter, both Fighters).
I'm hoping the game is better on release, but I didn't find anything in the game that games like Vindictus and Dragon Nest gave me, plus it's insulting after I finally got around to playing the Neverwinter, and the Baldur's Gate games. I played 2 hours of Baldur's Gate, and it felt like 5 minutes. I play 5 minutes of this game and it feels like 2 hours. It's that much of a boring, lifeless mess right now. They're also trying way too hard to shove the Hero Bundle down everyone's throats, it feels like they're trying any stupid thing they can just to get you to purchase it, including cutting off launch features.
I see myself spending around $20 on this game, if only to get character slots. It's a decent game, and it'll probably have a pretty big launch. But it's going to need way more classes, and way more features in the game. Either they'll have to turn the 2 classes into 1 (letting you, I dunno, CHOOSE YOUR CLASS!), or good around and try to balance until they fall flat on their face. Honestly, it'll become something of an off-game for me while I main Guild Wars 2, or play through the other D&D games.
solkanis1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited March 2013
Over all I gave the game a 7/10 because I enjoyed the combat flow and ease going from one power to another. I also really loved the environment graphics and detail they put into everything. That being said If I was going to just rate character customization I would give it a 3/10. Sure there are a number of choices for hair, tattoos, etc., plus you can really effect the body and face. That is awesome. BUT I was really disappointed with everything else....none of the colors really seemed to change the eye color, the hair was lacking in depth, etc, etc, etc. But the most disappointing thing of all was that you are stuck with the look whatever armor you find. Where does the uniqueness come in.....Outside of my hair style, color, beard, horns what have you, I looked like every other rogue , fighter, wizard etc in the game. I want to be able to choose what my character wears, what weapon he uses, etc....Sure limit the choices based on what type of armor the class can use, or what weapons they can use....but let me choose what those look like. City of Heroes,and Champions online were amazing at this and what I had hoped for in Neverwinter. Its a MMORPG I want to be unique in at least appearance.
Now onto the classes. I would love to see a bit more free form in how I build my character. Not all fighters have to wear heavy armor and use either sword/board combo or A big Sword. If I want my fighter to wear a lighter armor and wield a Quarterstaff that should my choice.
People complained about how free form CO was because they thought that one combination of powers needed to be balanced with all other combinations. But that's what was great about being able to choose. If I envisioned a character with certain powers and I put time and effort into that character because I liked the Idea...and he/she really wasn't all that great in every situation, and I ended up dying a bit more because of the power combination I chose. Oh well. I still loved playing them because I invested Imagination, time, and effort into the build and look. PvPers don't seem to care about that...all the seem to want is the most powerful combination to Pwn everyone else. Now that is fun for them but in the Pen and Paper world we call that Min Maxing. To me and alot of others out there that is boring and lacks imagination and that is why PvE and PvP are truly never going to balance. Pen and Paper players will tell you that not all characters will dominate in a game but that isnt why we play. We play to socialize with our friends, use our imaginations to bring a character to life, and be a hero or what have you.
The same is true when we play an MMO. We get to Socialize with our friends, bring a character to life (except now we get to SEE that character), and be a hero what have you. Why do classes in MMORPG's have to be stuck in a look/job. A fighter can still be a "Tank" without being the proverbial Heavy armor wearing, sword and Board wielding fighter. He could be an agile fighter wearing light armor and wielding a Sword and Hand axe and "Tanks" because he doesn't get hit as often and is constantly drawing "Aggro" because he is just pissing the bad guy off because he is hitting him from all different angles.
I understand that for game mechanics free form isn't always the easiest to implement, but its not like Cryptic hasn't done it before.
No offense to those that like to PvP, but mmo's and most assuredly DnD was not meant for seeing what the best class in the game was.
So far roughly 63% of people are giving the game a 5 or below... not that auspicious.
I am extremely concerned as I had hoped for some sort of middle ground between the DnD experience and NWN. I am not a fan of the "forced" class structure. First 10 levels should just be "you are a.......Wizard/Cleric/Warrior/Rogue, etc", get a multi variety of spells, and then at 11 decide on at least a few different "paths", then at 30 you can do the Paragon that they have set up, but still needs more variety, and without the variety, as much as I like the game, I just don't see it lasting a long time.
Players (especially new players) are going to get burned out of having to play such a narrow environment. Heck even console games give you a bit more variety. If I have a gripe that is probably the largest one.
"We know that the sheep live in denial; that is what makes them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the world...The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog...He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep...Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep...Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog.
0
mogwaiMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
ilweMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited March 2013
I fail to understand why 90% of MMOs tend to kill the flexible STATS system.
The thing is that if you allow players to choose which stat points go where, you get a more flexible skill system with skills based on stats (ex: 150% of intelligence goes towards increasing your base damage). There are so many great combos that could come out of such a system, not to mention real skill trees and customization possibilities, not linear skill system.
Linear skills system+fixed stat system=let's all play the same combinations with different gear. It gets old fast and the system is dumb.
What disappoints me the most in this game is the pretty linear skills system and the fixed stats system. Was hoping for a stats-based skill system I've been looking for in MMOs for years. That's the only reason I keep going back to a stupid and old, full of bugs, FTP Korean MMO. The unique feel that decisions matter and you can shape those 40 skills in 10 ways (at least) for every single class depending on your distribution of stat points, always sacrificing something to get something else in return.
You want to make the game highly-customizable? Make the stats/skills system customizable so that people can have a choice that matters. The many faces you can roll for ur char are negligible, and way less important imo.
That's just my opinion. Hope someone actually reads that :P
0
elveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 336
Maybe someone who has played both the Guardian Fighter and Great Weapon Fighter could chime in.
Well, it is kinda hard to explain what the difference is in text but I will try. First I must say that every character class can be taken to either support, DPS or survivability routes.
For the GF this choices are:
DPS - single target DPS skills including Burst DPS and execution skills. The aoe damage that the GF does is primarily with his at-wills which can be improved through the trait system.
Support - increasing the damage and survivability of your party members and decreasing the damage of enemies.
Survivability - Tanking - decreasing the damage of enemies to you and your allies, taunts and reflects as well as some self-heals.
Basically the GF is a very slow moving warrior. He can soak up quite a lot of damage with the shield and choose to do that primarily or go on the offensive in the right moment. With some trait choices the GF can even sacrifice the shielding power of his shield to deal even more damage(there is a trait that basically doubles your bonus damage from Power when you are not using your shield to defend). Still whatever you do you are pretty much stuck in the middle of the battlefield and you can either kill or die - running away is not an option. The class mechanic is taunting, dealing damage and debuffing enemies until they land a successful attack on you(attacks on your shield do not count).
I have played GWF less than GF but the basic skills are:
DPS - primarily AOE DPS skills.
Support - increasing the party DPS and some CC.
Survivabily - self heals and skills that get you quickly in-and-out of combat as well as CC breaking skills.
The GWF is a very mobile class. You cannot take a lot of damage but you can sure deal it. Most of the time you should be running in and out of combat and around your enemies to take a good position to be able to deal damage. The attacks are slower than the ones of the GF but deal a lot more damage. When forced to tank the GWF can kite quite successfully with his sprint mechanic and his relatively big range for melee attacks. You basically land several attacks, run away, charge your at-will(which when fully charged does more damage than an encounter ability), release it when the enemy is near, land an encounter or two and then run away again as your stamina is replenished by the time the enemy reaches you and is ready to attack you. The class mechanic of the GWF is ignoring CC and making his at-wills a lot faster for a short while which compliments the above playstyle very well and can be very useful as a DPS tool as well.
Overall the classes play very different. The GF is the immovable mountain while the GWF features almost rogue-like dexterity and very skill-focused gameplay in spite of not having a dodge move. I think there is no way to merge the classes and still keep them as unique as they currently are.
Now let's get back to topic. I voted for 9/10 - while there are relatively few skills the trick is that you have to choose the right set of them - you cannot have 20 skills to use at a time like you can do in other games and this gives the character his uniqueness. The trait system can further customize the skills you are using by adding unique properties and interactions between the skills and I'm quite pleased with it. The different classes offer different playstyle - it is completely different experience playing a rogue, a gf or a gwf while they are all melee and that is quite the achievement. And I'm not talking about some gimmick that keeps you busy while you piano your way on the number keys like you do in other games - here you have to think different and move differently to play with the different classes. I kinda wish there were more powers but overall I think cryptic is on the right track with this game and by adding some additional skills to slot in your bar we will end up with a great game and not just a good one.
0
syphilaidsBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 19Arc User
edited March 2013
they definitely need to have more classes i mean afterall this is D&D
0
l1zardo1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
Classes will come. I would at least like the freedom of choosing between 6-10 powers that are comparable in strength, and are scaled to my level. Currently Cleric has 3 clear cut winners and every 5 levels a DPS skill just vanished from the 'power tree'
0
belaz50Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
No Paladin, no ranger, and no hint of multiclassing. This is most certainly not DnD in any way outside of a few names. I doubt I even last a month with these boring classes.
0
malagarrMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
Definitely not living up to its potential.
It completely ignores the traditional D&D character classes and systems. The classes feel like very limited forms of the traditional MMO classes, sans any talents/feats. They try to offer customization by putting in minor traits that you can purchase as you level, but those don't do anything to set your character apart. Honestly? Combat and classes feel more like TERA than anything else.
Comments
I think he's being facetious. However, on the armor point, he's correct. AC and other stats seem to have little effect on incoming or outgoing damage. The numbers are primarily for show, the "heal" from the encounter power even at level 20 heals for less than a potion.
Ah, heck, it heals for less than one auto-attack from a bad guy. The basic mechanics work, but it's accurate to say that wizards have more mitigation from CC than you do from armor, well, up to level 33.
I think this game does do a good job of being an action based MMO... I dont know how that transcends to endgame and longterm, but its fun for what it is.
I figure this game is trying to find a halfway point between being in the D&D world and MMO culture. It does a decent job of that, and it's fun.
First and foremost people bashing about this game being unfinished and needs a lot of work I will have to say do you even know what closed beta means?
1. Closed beta versions are released to a restricted group of individuals for a user test by invitation, while open beta testers are from a larger group, or anyone interested. The testers report any bugs that they find, and sometimes suggest additional features they think should be available in the final version.
2. How many of you actually used the bug/feedback in the game and reported any bugs/feedback you encountered?
3. For people saying that leveling is too hard, please get a grip of what an MMO is and how leveling works. You level with quests plain and simple. I found the story as I leveled intriguing and if you actually spend time reading the quest text you will understand that the devs do put a lot of work in this.
4. I was able to get to 50 and enjoy most of the high level content and I must say that some of the maps look stunning and environments are not finished of course.
5. Keyboard turning is not going to happen in this game. The combat as it is its really fun and actually makes avoiding spells from mobs mandatory.
6. Dungeons and Skirmishes are a nice way of earning Seals which you can exchange for better gear. Some of the boss fights are not complete and this is why they would appreciate feedback and report bugs.
I will end my post here and say that this game has a lot of potential. I understand its not for everyone and comparing it to the other MMO's will not make you look forward to this game on release. I would wait for an open beta and let the devs work on what they gathered from all the feedback in these 2 closed beta we had.
I've played a Trickster Rogue up to level 15, and my biggest issue thus far is that I feel there isn't nearly enough variety in the powers. As an MMO player I've come to expect having plenty of options within my class to tweak my character in combat. As a 4e D&D player I expected to have a wide array of At-Will, Encounter, and Daily powers to choose from when creating my ideal build. Unfortunately I'm already at the point where I have no desire to play because my options are so limited in regards to the Trickster Rogue's powers. I think part of the problem is that classes are being artificially divided.
For example: We've got a "Great Weapon Fighter" and a "Guardian Fighter." In the source material, these were "suggested builds" that players were free to disregard. The whole reason these builds are suggested are so that new players can jump right in and make a good character relatively quickly. They are meant to fill specific roles in combat, which is why there were suggested builds in the first place (similar to how we have different roles in MMOs).
When you made a Fighter in D&D, you had access to all the Fighter's powers. There wasn't this bizarre segregation where you only had access to half the class powers. You could easily choose one of the suggested builds, or you could mix and match the powers on your own. Which was fun. I don't even know why the Neverwinter developers insisted on using the "suggested builds" from the D&D handbook, especially considering they didn't even give the proper builds the proper powers. I realize that the developers couldn't possibly adhere to everything in the source books, but having said that, splitting the classes down the middle is bad from an MMO standpoint. Forcing players into a specific build at character creation is the equivalent of starting a Priest in World of Warcraft and immediately having to choose between Discipline Priest, Holy Priest, or Shadow Priest, and only being able to use 1/3 of the Priest's abilities. Maybe this changes in higher levels, but early on it feels like I have zero variety in my powers. I've only played a Rogue at this point, so I'm not sure how the powers feel for other classes.
I realize it would be a lot of work, but if there are two Rogue classes (the other being "Brawny" if they're going by the source book), I'd rather them being combined into a single class and have all their powers accessible for me to build my own Rogue, be it Trickster, Brawny, or something in between. Remember that I haven't seen the other Rogue class, whatever it may be, so I'm just sorta winging it with my observation/suggestion. Maybe someone who has played both the Guardian Fighter and Great Weapon Fighter could chime in.
Well said X2
Okay what am I talking about as an original player of the D&D in the 60s (so all of you could almost call me a fizzban from the original characters!). I'm pretty old, a little senile, and I have to try and remember how the story started, oh yes, this is how it started way back in the early 60s.
A bunch friends started recording the D&D game they were playing, henceforth. Which became a bestselling story in the Lancet series, and then Boiware came along and produced a game like Never Winter Nights. Oh, but there was a lengthy court case over the characters which is why we do not have a kender but have a halfling instead and so on. Now, that may seem like a really strange thing to happen to a few guys playing a board game and then a gaming software company comes along and buys the character rights and makes a successful game like NWN! What made it successful was the individual characters and the uniqueness of their character traits, and that each build was unique, therefore many hours and many nights and year later your character is still worth playing, oh dear am I
waffling on again? So ends the little history lesson. You see in the early years testing was done by the developers / testing team, but in recent years it is a lot easier
and cheaper to get testers from the gaming community than to pay the developers to test the game or product. Is this adhoc testing approach worthwhile? - that remains to be seen {what a corporate world we live in!!!}
Now my problem with neverwinter is:
I am having fun at the moment with my low-level Trickster (despite being a pale shadow of a D&D Rogue), but I don't expect that to last once the newness wears off. Diablo-frelling-3 has more character variation and customisation... and a nearly identical playstyle.
What Class Are You?
This is what I would like to see improved.
I really think developers are going to have to forget about releasing it soon. I want to like this game, I hope they kinda start again with the classes and make the release date later.
I'm hoping the game is better on release, but I didn't find anything in the game that games like Vindictus and Dragon Nest gave me, plus it's insulting after I finally got around to playing the Neverwinter, and the Baldur's Gate games. I played 2 hours of Baldur's Gate, and it felt like 5 minutes. I play 5 minutes of this game and it feels like 2 hours. It's that much of a boring, lifeless mess right now. They're also trying way too hard to shove the Hero Bundle down everyone's throats, it feels like they're trying any stupid thing they can just to get you to purchase it, including cutting off launch features.
I see myself spending around $20 on this game, if only to get character slots. It's a decent game, and it'll probably have a pretty big launch. But it's going to need way more classes, and way more features in the game. Either they'll have to turn the 2 classes into 1 (letting you, I dunno, CHOOSE YOUR CLASS!), or good around and try to balance until they fall flat on their face. Honestly, it'll become something of an off-game for me while I main Guild Wars 2, or play through the other D&D games.
Now onto the classes. I would love to see a bit more free form in how I build my character. Not all fighters have to wear heavy armor and use either sword/board combo or A big Sword. If I want my fighter to wear a lighter armor and wield a Quarterstaff that should my choice.
People complained about how free form CO was because they thought that one combination of powers needed to be balanced with all other combinations. But that's what was great about being able to choose. If I envisioned a character with certain powers and I put time and effort into that character because I liked the Idea...and he/she really wasn't all that great in every situation, and I ended up dying a bit more because of the power combination I chose. Oh well. I still loved playing them because I invested Imagination, time, and effort into the build and look. PvPers don't seem to care about that...all the seem to want is the most powerful combination to Pwn everyone else. Now that is fun for them but in the Pen and Paper world we call that Min Maxing. To me and alot of others out there that is boring and lacks imagination and that is why PvE and PvP are truly never going to balance. Pen and Paper players will tell you that not all characters will dominate in a game but that isnt why we play. We play to socialize with our friends, use our imaginations to bring a character to life, and be a hero or what have you.
The same is true when we play an MMO. We get to Socialize with our friends, bring a character to life (except now we get to SEE that character), and be a hero what have you. Why do classes in MMORPG's have to be stuck in a look/job. A fighter can still be a "Tank" without being the proverbial Heavy armor wearing, sword and Board wielding fighter. He could be an agile fighter wearing light armor and wielding a Sword and Hand axe and "Tanks" because he doesn't get hit as often and is constantly drawing "Aggro" because he is just pissing the bad guy off because he is hitting him from all different angles.
I understand that for game mechanics free form isn't always the easiest to implement, but its not like Cryptic hasn't done it before.
No offense to those that like to PvP, but mmo's and most assuredly DnD was not meant for seeing what the best class in the game was.
Tis possible to hit the level cap in about a week...
(.-.)
I don't know if anyone's called you out on this, but it's a lie. It was never billed as a successor or sequel, or in any way related to NWN.
Your entire poll and premise is obviously extremely biased, and all you're doing is trolling the internet for people who agree with you.
I am extremely concerned as I had hoped for some sort of middle ground between the DnD experience and NWN. I am not a fan of the "forced" class structure. First 10 levels should just be "you are a.......Wizard/Cleric/Warrior/Rogue, etc", get a multi variety of spells, and then at 11 decide on at least a few different "paths", then at 30 you can do the Paragon that they have set up, but still needs more variety, and without the variety, as much as I like the game, I just don't see it lasting a long time.
Players (especially new players) are going to get burned out of having to play such a narrow environment. Heck even console games give you a bit more variety. If I have a gripe that is probably the largest one.
+1
discussing & often complaining about the imaginary.
[SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=1618000&dateline=1316204434[/SIGPIC]
The thing is that if you allow players to choose which stat points go where, you get a more flexible skill system with skills based on stats (ex: 150% of intelligence goes towards increasing your base damage). There are so many great combos that could come out of such a system, not to mention real skill trees and customization possibilities, not linear skill system.
Linear skills system+fixed stat system=let's all play the same combinations with different gear. It gets old fast and the system is dumb.
What disappoints me the most in this game is the pretty linear skills system and the fixed stats system. Was hoping for a stats-based skill system I've been looking for in MMOs for years. That's the only reason I keep going back to a stupid and old, full of bugs, FTP Korean MMO. The unique feel that decisions matter and you can shape those 40 skills in 10 ways (at least) for every single class depending on your distribution of stat points, always sacrificing something to get something else in return.
You want to make the game highly-customizable? Make the stats/skills system customizable so that people can have a choice that matters. The many faces you can roll for ur char are negligible, and way less important imo.
That's just my opinion. Hope someone actually reads that :P
For the GF this choices are:
DPS - single target DPS skills including Burst DPS and execution skills. The aoe damage that the GF does is primarily with his at-wills which can be improved through the trait system.
Support - increasing the damage and survivability of your party members and decreasing the damage of enemies.
Survivability - Tanking - decreasing the damage of enemies to you and your allies, taunts and reflects as well as some self-heals.
Basically the GF is a very slow moving warrior. He can soak up quite a lot of damage with the shield and choose to do that primarily or go on the offensive in the right moment. With some trait choices the GF can even sacrifice the shielding power of his shield to deal even more damage(there is a trait that basically doubles your bonus damage from Power when you are not using your shield to defend). Still whatever you do you are pretty much stuck in the middle of the battlefield and you can either kill or die - running away is not an option. The class mechanic is taunting, dealing damage and debuffing enemies until they land a successful attack on you(attacks on your shield do not count).
I have played GWF less than GF but the basic skills are:
DPS - primarily AOE DPS skills.
Support - increasing the party DPS and some CC.
Survivabily - self heals and skills that get you quickly in-and-out of combat as well as CC breaking skills.
The GWF is a very mobile class. You cannot take a lot of damage but you can sure deal it. Most of the time you should be running in and out of combat and around your enemies to take a good position to be able to deal damage. The attacks are slower than the ones of the GF but deal a lot more damage. When forced to tank the GWF can kite quite successfully with his sprint mechanic and his relatively big range for melee attacks. You basically land several attacks, run away, charge your at-will(which when fully charged does more damage than an encounter ability), release it when the enemy is near, land an encounter or two and then run away again as your stamina is replenished by the time the enemy reaches you and is ready to attack you. The class mechanic of the GWF is ignoring CC and making his at-wills a lot faster for a short while which compliments the above playstyle very well and can be very useful as a DPS tool as well.
Overall the classes play very different. The GF is the immovable mountain while the GWF features almost rogue-like dexterity and very skill-focused gameplay in spite of not having a dodge move. I think there is no way to merge the classes and still keep them as unique as they currently are.
Now let's get back to topic. I voted for 9/10 - while there are relatively few skills the trick is that you have to choose the right set of them - you cannot have 20 skills to use at a time like you can do in other games and this gives the character his uniqueness. The trait system can further customize the skills you are using by adding unique properties and interactions between the skills and I'm quite pleased with it. The different classes offer different playstyle - it is completely different experience playing a rogue, a gf or a gwf while they are all melee and that is quite the achievement. And I'm not talking about some gimmick that keeps you busy while you piano your way on the number keys like you do in other games - here you have to think different and move differently to play with the different classes. I kinda wish there were more powers but overall I think cryptic is on the right track with this game and by adding some additional skills to slot in your bar we will end up with a great game and not just a good one.
It completely ignores the traditional D&D character classes and systems. The classes feel like very limited forms of the traditional MMO classes, sans any talents/feats. They try to offer customization by putting in minor traits that you can purchase as you level, but those don't do anything to set your character apart. Honestly? Combat and classes feel more like TERA than anything else.