Values of skills, numbers, etc

hedgehog8

I have quite a lot of questions about some 'exact stats', would be nice if people shared their experience from beta weekend 2 to get a better overview. 'Ability scores' are pretty clear, wiki got lot's of info, but some other stuff is 'not discussed that much'.

First of all, there are all the 'crit/regen/power' etc stats, but how much do you need to raise them to get specific results? My impression was that for stats like crit or lifesteal, having '100' score added 1%. So with 300 crit and 100 lifesteal I had about 3% crit chance and around 1% lifesteal. Is it true, or I miscalculated something? Does this work later, or it becomes 'less linear'? What was you 'stat' and what was the actual bonus you had?
One stat that I really maxed up, was power. As a lvl 30 CW, I had about 1300 power, which resulted in '+50 dmg and +15 healing'. The proportions are like '+1 dmg per 25 power'. Again, did anyone get other values, and remembers the actual bonus?


Next big question is about things like 'crits', 'crit severity' and 'combat advantage'. What are the numbers for this stuff? How much is the average crit in comparisson to normal damage? And how much 'crit severity' improves it? For example, if a normal crit does 200% dmg, and I somehow get crit severity '+30%', does it mean I will deal '230%' damage on crits?
Similar questions about combat advantage damage - is it set or differ depending on 'how much advantage you have'? How much damage does it deal in comparisson to normal damage? And how does it stack with 'ability bonuses'? For example, if combat advantage dmg is an aditional 50% dmg, so I deal 150% on my attacks under this bonus. If I have a '+10% combat advantage bonus', will it apply only to the small portion, or to the total? (so would I deal 165%, or 155% total?)

Anyway, if this stuff is 'unknown', I think we should pay more attention to this in next weekend, because all those numbers will be critical for build decisions(and if there is no wipe after open beta starts, it's better to go for 'worthy' build right away)


PS As a thread starter it would be natural for me to gather the info from whole thread and repost it here. Most likely I'll do that after the end, so far there is not much info(and the thread is not that big), and on the weekend I'll probably be too busy with actual game

nikadaemus

I would have a poke around this site > http://nwowiki.co/index.php?title=Main_Page (or maybe you have)

I think it was a little over 100 (maybe 110) per percentage point for most things. All additive with feats.

Could be 150% base for critical damage, seemed about that anyways.

Combat advantage is extra flanking damage. Obviously requires another person and proper positioning

Damage itself seems to scale bad since it is not a % (although Clerics for example get +%damage and heals from Wisdom) Strength seems to add flat numbers which is rarely good imho

hedgehog8

Thank you for the reply. I 'poked' nw-wiki so much, that now it should have more holes than the 'Moonstone mask' (ba-dumpts). Ok, that was lame....


There is no sinlge number related to skills on wiki at the moment, not even the 1-100 ratio that you mentioned (even though it was one of the most obvious ones). Thank you for the crits info, still would like to know how is crit severity calculated and how much 'advantage damage' deals in comparisson to normal(if crits are 150%, is it like 125% then?).

dollahz

I got some values for you from watching streams..

1237 power = +51 Damage and Healing Bonus (Looks like power sucks)
278 Critical Strike = 2% Crit Chance (Seems really good)
417 Recovery = 3% Recharge Speed & 3% Action Points Gain (Pretty Good as well)
231 Defense = 7% Damage Resistance (Who needs defense!)

from a control wizard. I might be able to find some info for lifesteal. The other ones are gonna have to wait till BW3.

hedgehog8

Thanks again, recovery is a bit 'odd', all other values seem to go along other theories.
Either recovery is not '100 for 1%', of rates begin to change as they grow.
Also, power does not really suck, it's just that flat damage bonus is a completely different thing. On my CW I had the orb that had about 200 max damage on lvl 30, and with 1300 power I had '+50-something' damage. Converted, it's about 25% increase, so it's actually not that bad. Power will of course become less viable on higher levels, but maybe the dependance stops being linear as well...

l1zardo1

I think 15% Combat advantage just means you do 115% base damage when flanking. Hard to know for certain when they multiply it. I would hope at the end ...

Recovery, as mentioned above, is how I noticed that it takes around 110 per percentage point. So 440ish would hit 4%

Keeping that in mind, sometimes a ring or piece of gear will not put you up a point. (like the 50 odd points of crit above) So its something to keep an eye on when changing gear.

..as for severity. Short of the racial trait, I haven't seen anything that modifies it. (perhaps a rogue feat or another strike class) Pretty sure there is no stat for it. It never felt like 2x damage for me. Like I said, it felt more like 1.5x. There is a massive combat log I have, but its mostly gibberish and not sure where to start for parsing.

falchoin

More numbers from BWE2 to add to the mix.

744 Power (+31 dmg/healing bonus)
908 Crit Strike (+8% crit chance)
880 Recovery (+8% AP gain and recharge speed)
448 Defense (12% dmg resist)
102 Life Steal (1% hp gained)
50 Movement (0% movement speed)

darkstorn42

So combat advantage in pnp was merely a +2 to attack and other special abilities that might trigger when you had it. In NWO though its a damage increase. When ever your damage was orange instead of yellow you were doing combat advantage damage, at least thats what I thought it meant. From what I could tell, there were plenty of feats that gave you benefits with combat advantage, but one of your secondary stats will also increase your combat advantage damage.

That's all I got for you, I agree that the number crunch could be a bit confusing at times. Especially some of the last teir heroic wizard feats, specifically the one that increased something for your party.

dollahz

I just looked into it more. It seems it cost different amounts per % point.

hedgehog8

A 'scale' on higher levels would be quite surprising to be honest The skill bonuses from items grow gradually on high lvl items already, why would they add more 'complexity'...

What kind of scale do you expect it to be by the way - an 'increasing' or 'decreasing' one? Meaning, if on level 30 the crit rates go 1% for 100 stats, how will it be on 60: 1% for 80 or 1% for 120? (numbers are quite random, I mean the idea - is there a bigger or smaller effect from stat increase?).
Also, where did you look into (just curious )? Because again, it would make alot of sense if the scales changed for higher values (so 100 equals 1% crit, but 5000 equals like 35%), but why would that be based on levels?



Anyway, beta starts in less than 24 hours, so we'll be able to get lot's of numbers.

A small tip for measurement: try to get hold of different items that have 'small' stat bonuses in addition to 'high ones'. Like if you have a '+10 crit ring', you will be able to pinpoint the value at which the stat increses by putting it on/off (like having 578 crit with and 568 without the ring, if the 'percentage' changes between these two numbers, getting exact 'scales' becomes alot easier).

Ideally, having different items that give '+10, +20, +30, +40, +100, + 200, +300, +400, +1000' etc stats can let you have any skill value(rounded to 10) from 10 to 2000 if you equip these items in different combos
That way, creating neat and precise tables and graphs would be very easy (and helpful for understanding).

nikadaemus

Stats could be like WoW I suppose, where you get less from 'rating points' as you level up. All balanced for level cap.

Seemed to be 110 points per % point. Was for me whenever I looked, but ya ... a L50 character could prove that theory right or wrong pretty quickly (or a L5 if you could get a few samples of 90-110 rating pts)

hedgehog8

It's like that in WoW? So if you are lvl 49, have like 4300 crit or whatever and it means something like 40%, then you level up to lvl 50 and your crit chance instantly drops to like 37%? I never payed attention to be honest, but this just seems too unnatural to work like that

l1zardo1

It allowed small ratings to give a larger boost at lower levels. Scaling that made good low lv equipment more rewarding.

Why twinks worked so well lol. Most people who raided and theorycrafted only cared about the top level rating:% ratio though.

It honestly makes a lot of sense. That blue piece of gear at L20 with 5 extra rating points is nothing in this system, but was actually something worth holding onto in a scaling system.

dollahz

Level 50
2049 power = +83
547 critical strike = 4% Crit
271 Regeneration = 2% (This stat is actually not bad for leveling)
579 defense = 13% damage reduction
174 life steal = 1%
349 movement = 3% movement speed

Ill try to get the 1% equals x later on today. Hard to find items with small increments. So gonna be tough. Also these values will change during launch (60 cap) or however Cryptic changes them.

l1zardo1

Can't just peel off certain items to compare ? See where the 'break point' is

Wondering if you have any feat info. 20 unlocks paragon, then any other feat 'point' can be used in the Paragon trees?

How many do you have at 50

thx

So. 25 power seems to still = one plus damage

Crit is over 136:1 >< Same with Recovery

dollahz

348 lifesteal = 3%
102-182 recovery = 1% Recovery
117 Critical = 1% Crit
20 heroic 21 Paragon on my Tiefling @ lvl 50.

If you want to discuss this more you can pm me. As its a bit too early/late for my mathematical function in my brain. Plus quicker response.

Edt: After looking into it further. It seems each percentage point cost more then last. It may or not may not be level dependant. I cant level up anymore to tell. Although we know that higher the level the more stats you can have.

l1zardo1

Yes it does seem to take more points as you get higher up in the stat, not character level. Interesting!

Thanks for the # feats. Trying to get my build ready

mogwai

u guys realize those figures are further modified by you stats
with 20 con & 1330 defense i had 21% damage resist iirc

l1zardo1

Stats and feats are important because they are static additive %s. We were trying to see how rating points from gear = %

If I were to guess, I would think that:

Rating required = 100 + (10*next % level)

hedgehog8

Looking good I guess. Would be nice to see values above 2000 to see 'scales' at high end, but the overall picture is quite clear.
Another idea to think of - are those scales 'class dependant'? In would be logical to expect that for a rogue armor penetration is more vital that for a cleric, so maybe rogues have different scales for that skill (so they get bigger effect with same skill value)

I'm going to spend some time on trying a crit build for CW for this beta, most likely gonna buy all the crit stuff available from the autcion house or seals vendors (AD should be restored after beta's end I hope ). So hopefully I should be able to get crit ratings up to least 1000. Hopefully, would get more precise 'crit damage' as well.

Would be quite usefull if different people picked different stats for this beta as well (obviously, it's really hard to pick test many stats for 1 person). Like recovery rate for priests or CW's, deflection or defence for guardian, lifesteal or armor penetration for GWF, etc.

nikadaemus

I'm aiming to break 1000 Recovery on a new Cleric

Crit and Armor Pen will be my secondaries

Current character is all crit and power I think.

edit*

lol just noticed I am on my alt account, oh well

rangorvix

Really intersting stuff, look forward to seeing how the stat values pan out as this could easily affect some Feat choices (example: if 3% crit is really easy to get, putting feat pnts into crit could be a waste - unless going for some kind of crit build ofc)

Btw, I didnt even realize Recovery was for recharge & action pnts - thought it was something to do with tanking, silly me:p

dollahz

Getting gear is alot harder then you guys think. There is barely anyone on the servers atm. The 40 and 50 zones was empty during the entire Press Beta. There is no easy way to get the stats you want until there is a bunch of players playing and you can buy it from the auction house. Other wise it is RNG. Some of the npcs in town do sell gear but mostly white gear. Since I got my wizard to 50 already, I'm going to be doing more testing and group content instead of leveling. I want to flesh out the wiki more.

If you guys have any questions, I'm happy to answer them. I have a feeling there is gonna be huge gap between the next beta/release. So gotta get in alot of play time.

I believe all stat weights are the same for non ability scores. It seems the stats are balanced per class by what items they can equip.

As far as Crit goes, I have 21 Charisma on my Tiefling. So that's 11% crit right there. I also have the 3% crit chance.
I think I'm gonna stack Recovery and Crit chance personally. Mostly Recovery as lower cooldown's is a God sent for CW. I would think a Cleric would love that stat aswell. Without spoiling much, Shard of the Endless Avalanche is the coolest skills I've played with. Shield is useful but not for being a shield. It cost 98,907 AD to respec your feats. Something I want to do but idk where I would get that much AD. Sudden Storm and Storm Pillar don't really like those skills.

nikadaemus

Ya I see that. I know it was a pain to find all crit gear too (just from vendors/drops)

I hope there are only a few weeks again, or I may go certifiable

hedgehog8

dollahz wrote: »

Getting gear is alot harder then you guys think. There is barely anyone on the servers atm. The 40 and 50 zones was empty during the entire Press Beta. There is no easy way to get the stats you want until there is a bunch of players playing and you can buy it from the auction house. Other wise it is RNG. Some of the npcs in town do sell gear but mostly white gear. Since I got my wizard to 50 already, I'm going to be doing more testing and group content instead of leveling. I want to flesh out the wiki more.

Don't get me wrong, the info you provided is great and I'm really gratefull, most of the stuff I was saying about trying different gear was meant for people who gonna play during these weekends (so like don't sell/trow old stuff away, it may help for trying different numbers)

dollahz

Yeah, I just wish I had the bag space. I recommend everyone to buy bags if you can. I run out of bag space every instance almost. Ill do some more testing in a bit.

themangroth

These numbers were taken from a level 33 dwarf guardian fighter. I do have one of the +5% effectiveness to armor talents with this information.

DR% Armor Rating
1 --> 30
1 --> 33
1 --> 41
1 --> 58
2 --> 62
2 --> 70
2 --> 74
3 --> 91
3 --> 103
4 --> 120
4 --> 132
4 --> 136
5 --> 149
5 --> 154
5 --> 162
5 --> 171
6 --> 183
6 --> 190
6 --> 200
7 --> 211
7 --> 217
8 --> 256
8 --> 285
9 --> 303
10 --> 332
10 --> 365
11 --> 398
12 --> 439
12 --> 457
13 --> 486
14 --> 519
14 --> 560
15 --> 593
15 --> 610
16 --> 639
16 --> 680
17 --> 713
17 --> 746
18 --> 781
18 --> 804
19 --> 837
19 --> 878
20 --> 906
20 --> 947
21 --> 980
21 --> 1014
22 --> 1055
22 --> 1088
22 --> 1125
23 --> 1158
23 --> 1192
23 --> 1225
24 --> 1266
24 --> 1282
24 --> 1232
24 --> 1356
25 --> 1390
25 --> 1431
26 --> 1464
26 --> 1487
26 --> 1528


This information clearly shows the effects of diminishing returns on the defense stat as you stack more and more of it. The following table displays how many points are required on top of what you already have to raise your damage reduction to the next %

(numbers will not be 100% accurate, this information has been derived from averaging several sets of stats, and rounded to the rearest whole number)

% DR Points needed to get to next %

1 --> 33
2 --> 33
3 --> 33
4 --> 33
5 --> 33
6 --> 33
7 --> 33
9 --> 34
8 --> 34
10 --> 35
11 --> 36
12 --> 37
13 --> 38
14 --> 39
15 --> 40
16 --> 41
17 --> 43
18 --> 44
19 --> 45
20 --> 46
21 --> 47
22 --> 50
23 --> 52
24 --> 54
25 --> 56
26 --> 57

Edit: I fail at forum table formatting.. sorry

hedgehog8

^ Fantastic, thank you! I bet getting all those numbers took some time
Hopefully, by the end of the weekend this thread will be 'full' with observations. Unless devs suddenly 'rebalance everything', this should be a good source of info for wiki.

rangorvix

Quick question that just occured to me, does armour penetration affect a targets ability to resist control affects, or is it just there damage resist (i kinda assume the latter though)

dollahz

There is Control Resist. that you get with wisdom.

Armor Penetration - Increases the percentage of damage resistance that is ignored when attacking an enemy.

adevlin1991

One thing to remember about armor diminishing returns. Even through the amount of armor required to get 1% more damage reduction increases, the amount of damage reduction 1% gives you increases as your total % increases. Going from 50% to 60% Defense is a 20% reduction in damage taken, where as going from 0- 10% defense is only a 10% damage reduction.