IC: oh you will try but in the end you will be begging to live *evil grin*
OOC: pvp is a necessary evil for the realism(quite fun and adds challenges too and cool items), however having a button to accept someone stabbing you in the back totally kills the realism which is done in so many games these days.
Actual Join date: Dec 2007
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xdreeganxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
I'm probably not the target audience for this game. I'm not a true D&D guy. Aside from a brief stint with trying to find some D&D groups which didn't work out due to scheduling and lack of a good DM, and only really interested in Drizzt's book series, I still have a lot to learn.
However, I'm a huge fan of RPGs, a big fan of MMOs, and an even BIGGER fan of RP. I love it. And I have to admit, I plan on RPing my *** off in this game, immersing myself in this D&D lore you guys are so proud of, and enjoying this game for months, maybe even years to come. But I have to admit, not having PvP breaks a leg with RP. Especially in a game like Age of Conan. Even if some of the classes were a little broken in PvP, I never heard many people claiming that a class getting nerfed in PvP really affected them in Raid Content < Which is the content where classes would truly be broken because of all the DPS counters and people being able to see exactly how much numbers they were doing. So "broken" meant "not optimized the way I had imagined it". And the only instance that I can recall in my brief experience (brief compared to most of the people I play games with who are 30+ and still talking about the Good Ol' EQ days of month long quests and XP debt) was in SW:TOR where Agents got boned HARD. REALLY HARD. TOO effective in PvP. Heavy damage nerf. People felt limp dicked in PvE because of all the number tracking.
VisionStorm and Reilz really hit the nail on the head. Even in my brief stint into PnP D&D involved my character socking or using a spell/ability on one of my buddies to teach their character a lesson, causing damage or some harm. And in Age of Conan even, PvP was kind of necessary. I don't want my character to stand there in their stoic "idle" pose as I type out my attempt to harm someone who has offended me, my leader, or even describe a drunken brawl. If you don't want things like Arenas, and other WoW/MMO/PvP things you're afraid of, at least, at the VERY LEAST, allow us a Duel function. Or just a little area where the flag pops up. Being able to physically resolve problems in-game/in-character between individuals or small groups representing two guilds who are having a problem is necessary to the immersion. At least for me.
Things touched on that would be required for ACTUAL PvP in this game are as follows. I'll keep it short, so I'm sure there's something in here I'll be missing:
Taking PvE Aspects into PvP: Tanks would be required to.. well Tank. Unless they have good DPS options. Taunting is a big thing. Lowering the damage done to allies; Temporarily locking the enemies camera, things like that. Prevents tanks from feeling like they aren't a "viable" class. Or any other class who might have that problem. Based on how the Cleric works, I don't think Healer/Support classes will have that problem. Otherwise, the game looks like it promotes very good PvP in the form of coordination (A PvP must, instead of a button masher. Which I'm sure PvE will be the same at higher levels)
PvP "Balance": Like others have said in this thread. 1v1 is not a scenario to balance PvP around. It always makes me laugh, the whole "1v1 me bro". Games that I play like LoL, CoD, Halo, anything with PvP in which the game itself is based around team-based PvP. And therefore balanced around synergy between teams, not just class vs class. If you decide to fight a Rogue as a Healer/Mage, and you die, you've no reason to complain. They're made to kill people like you. Unless that Mage is really smart with their abilities. In some ways, PvP self-balances. But a lot of people just can't "see" that because they think whatever class they play should easily defeat anything in the game. Solo PvP is represented in games like Mortal Kombat and whatnot. (Even those games have problems.. ever fought an Ermac on MK3? Jesus... good luck with that.)
Gear: The big PvP killer for me. I don't mind people getting gear to show off their tangible efforts on PvP. But as I'm sure many PvPers will agree, having that gear affect how combat efficiency work (deal more damage, take less damage), aside from coordination and skill is such a downer. That's when PvP becomes grind-to-win. Which will lead to people maybe even thinking Pay-to-Win based on how Cryptic handles it. Should gear matter? Sure, but please, don't make Aion happen again. PvP should be for sport. Let the players make it competitive as it needs to be. But don't make it a requirement to feel useful. Someone who PvPs their *** off should have higher odds of winning from experience and ability. Don't add gear to that equation making it even worse. And if you want to put it into D&D or RL fighting parlance, consider a player of lower skill than you rolling a 20, or just a lucky blow/tactic/move/whatever you want.
Arrows and Blades do not have names on them.
They are addressed, "To whom it may concern.."
Getting shot in the back isnt cool. But its ok since you can respawn and hunt them down. But pvp is rarely well done in MMOs. Especially in a f2p game.
I dont really care for it unless its normalized pvp like in Dragon's Nest. Otherwise it becomes another grind, microtransaction experience. Doing that in PVE isnt so bad since its co-op rather than competitive play. But player vs player requires different formalities.
All good pvp is Co-Op
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sardokusMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
Sorry I play MMOs in the hope that I can play one game for years to come. It is my sincere belief the perfect game or one that comes close entwines both spectrums of pvp and pve in one neat package. Saying it hasn't been successfully done in the past doesn't mean that it's impossible. So like Mom always used to say, "too much of one thing is bad for you" that can be applied to MMOs as well. So no, pvp is not bad for nw...it just needs to be implimented correctly and seamlessly.
There are far more solo players than raiders, so a game catering to raiders is shooting itself in the foot.
Christ, dumbest thing I've ever heard someone say who thought they knew what they were talking about, thank god he was already banned.
Raiding is why end game exists, raiding is the pinnacle of coordinated play and dealing with fun encounters. Idiot.
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ghostravynMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 59
edited July 2013
Are player names such as Scroty Baggins, MrPwnty, JSw33n3y etc. bad for the game?
Are guild names such as Fist Full of Zen, Lemonade Stand, Corrupted Souls, etc., bad for the game?
Are auction houses and the players that manipulate the market bad for the game?
Is the ZEN market, Astral Diamond Market, Seals markets, Bars Markets, etc. bad for the game?
Are other players who spend an entire dungeon run telling you what to do, or belittle you, or trash talk endlessly bad for the game?
Welcome to being alive. When we are playing at your DM'd game, then you can make the rules as you see fit. When you're dealing with human beings, good luck forcing us all to adhere to your concepts of what makes a game great. But let me put this to you:
Moreso than any PVE player, PVP players know their powers, know their builds, and know the effects thereof. Each effect is utilized more often, and under much more aggressive standards than PVE players. PVE players are less likely to reveal exploits. PVP players are more likely to come up with innovative and unique builds in an attempt to keep their opponents off-kilter.
The real question is, are tyrannical personalities that want to force everyone to adhere to their concepts of what the game should be bad for the game?
Corrupted Souls, Mindflayer server
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited July 2013
Why modern MMOs don't start, from the ground-up, with the ability to make changes to how powers work in PvP without affecting their PvE equivalents, is beyond me.
Why most MMOs treat PvP as only "you killing other players" is also beyond me. Why not have competition style PvP, where it's about accomplishing some task better than the other team, where direct confrontations don't actually occur? Getting ganked just because you don't focus on PvP isn't fun, and this type of mentality only serves to drive non-hardcore PvPers away.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Why modern MMOs don't start, from the ground-up, with the ability to make changes to how powers work in PvP without affecting their PvE equivalents, is beyond me.
Why most MMOs treat PvP as only "you killing other players" is also beyond me. Why not have competition style PvP, where it's about accomplishing some task better than the other team, where direct confrontations don't actually occur? Getting ganked just because you don't focus on PvP isn't fun, and this type of mentality only serves to drive non-hardcore PvPers away.
I would so play the fudge out of a Mario Kart style PvP mode with Sparkle Spiders.
Git Gud M8!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Cause I'm worth it. Playing since 2009.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited July 2013
The somber moderator enters the room and is aghast at the unholy plague of necromancy which has behest his humble forums. He reaches for his two blades and begins an epic battle against the decrepit thread. After some time he manages to slay the foul beast and send it back to the depths whence it came.
If a thread is older than 30 days it is considered dead and likely has out of date information or opinions within it. Please let these threads rest in peace and make new threads rather than committing the audacious act of necromancy.
Comments
OOC: pvp is a necessary evil for the realism(quite fun and adds challenges too and cool items), however having a button to accept someone stabbing you in the back totally kills the realism which is done in so many games these days.
However, I'm a huge fan of RPGs, a big fan of MMOs, and an even BIGGER fan of RP. I love it. And I have to admit, I plan on RPing my *** off in this game, immersing myself in this D&D lore you guys are so proud of, and enjoying this game for months, maybe even years to come. But I have to admit, not having PvP breaks a leg with RP. Especially in a game like Age of Conan. Even if some of the classes were a little broken in PvP, I never heard many people claiming that a class getting nerfed in PvP really affected them in Raid Content < Which is the content where classes would truly be broken because of all the DPS counters and people being able to see exactly how much numbers they were doing. So "broken" meant "not optimized the way I had imagined it". And the only instance that I can recall in my brief experience (brief compared to most of the people I play games with who are 30+ and still talking about the Good Ol' EQ days of month long quests and XP debt) was in SW:TOR where Agents got boned HARD. REALLY HARD. TOO effective in PvP. Heavy damage nerf. People felt limp dicked in PvE because of all the number tracking.
VisionStorm and Reilz really hit the nail on the head. Even in my brief stint into PnP D&D involved my character socking or using a spell/ability on one of my buddies to teach their character a lesson, causing damage or some harm. And in Age of Conan even, PvP was kind of necessary. I don't want my character to stand there in their stoic "idle" pose as I type out my attempt to harm someone who has offended me, my leader, or even describe a drunken brawl. If you don't want things like Arenas, and other WoW/MMO/PvP things you're afraid of, at least, at the VERY LEAST, allow us a Duel function. Or just a little area where the flag pops up. Being able to physically resolve problems in-game/in-character between individuals or small groups representing two guilds who are having a problem is necessary to the immersion. At least for me.
Things touched on that would be required for ACTUAL PvP in this game are as follows. I'll keep it short, so I'm sure there's something in here I'll be missing:
Arrows and Blades do not have names on them.
They are addressed, "To whom it may concern.."
All good pvp is Co-Op
Christ, dumbest thing I've ever heard someone say who thought they knew what they were talking about, thank god he was already banned.
Raiding is why end game exists, raiding is the pinnacle of coordinated play and dealing with fun encounters. Idiot.
Are guild names such as Fist Full of Zen, Lemonade Stand, Corrupted Souls, etc., bad for the game?
Are auction houses and the players that manipulate the market bad for the game?
Is the ZEN market, Astral Diamond Market, Seals markets, Bars Markets, etc. bad for the game?
Are other players who spend an entire dungeon run telling you what to do, or belittle you, or trash talk endlessly bad for the game?
Welcome to being alive. When we are playing at your DM'd game, then you can make the rules as you see fit. When you're dealing with human beings, good luck forcing us all to adhere to your concepts of what makes a game great. But let me put this to you:
Moreso than any PVE player, PVP players know their powers, know their builds, and know the effects thereof. Each effect is utilized more often, and under much more aggressive standards than PVE players. PVE players are less likely to reveal exploits. PVP players are more likely to come up with innovative and unique builds in an attempt to keep their opponents off-kilter.
The real question is, are tyrannical personalities that want to force everyone to adhere to their concepts of what the game should be bad for the game?
Why most MMOs treat PvP as only "you killing other players" is also beyond me. Why not have competition style PvP, where it's about accomplishing some task better than the other team, where direct confrontations don't actually occur? Getting ganked just because you don't focus on PvP isn't fun, and this type of mentality only serves to drive non-hardcore PvPers away.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I would so play the fudge out of a Mario Kart style PvP mode with Sparkle Spiders.
Git Gud M8!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Cause I'm worth it. Playing since 2009.
If a thread is older than 30 days it is considered dead and likely has out of date information or opinions within it. Please let these threads rest in peace and make new threads rather than committing the audacious act of necromancy.