Concern about traps.

the1tigglet

I've noticed on the videos of the premade foundry dungeons and the storyline dungeons that the trap areas seem to be extremely small. Wouldn't it make more sense to place traps over an entire area like a whole line so that they aren't just walked past like they are a broke tile or something? I'm not hardcore but I think that was just a little weird. Traps are supposed to be dangerous and right now they just don't seem to be.

exterminos

ya i have not seen enough trap footage to make up my mind they may get more difficult as time goes on, but eventually I would prefer traps that get someone killed if not handed properly otherwise they are just a minor inconvenience which to me is fluff

conanocze

I gotta agree on this. I am not hardcore neither, but it should be more dangerous. This is Dungeons and Dragons I have played a lot of DaD games in real life, where i was not that careful as i should be and i gave life of my character for that mistake. Let's say that it should not one shot people, but would give you really nasty condition (depends on type of trap, for example, when you will activate spikes, it will hurt you for HAMSTER dmg + you will be crippled for 10 minutes [- 30% movement speed]). After you would experience this, you would be a lot of careful, where you should step and where you should not. Fun ++ !

ysil6969

conanocze wrote: »

I gotta agree on this. I am not hardcore neither, but it should be more dangerous. This is Dungeons and Dragons I have played a lot of DaD games in real life, where i was not that careful as i should be and i gave life of my character for that mistake. Let's say that it should not one shot people, but would give you really nasty condition (depends on type of trap, for example, when you will activate spikes, it will hurt you for HAMSTER dmg + you will be crippled for 10 minutes [- 30% movement speed]). After you would experience this, you would be a lot of careful, where you should step and where you should not. Fun ++ !

I agree with you 100%. Part of the fun in DnD is having your heart race everytime a trap goes off in your face. Wondering if you'll make the save or burn to death in a fiery display of awesomeness

babylon

Put too many traps in everywhere in a foundry mission (considering only rogues can see and disarm them) and you'll kill the player because they won't be able to move around without setting off three traps in a row, then they'll rate your foundry quest as 1 star sucky.

eldarth

I've also seen dart traps that fire in a straight line and cover some space.
And something that looks like a blade/buzzsaw trap that was about 30'x5'

arythor

A savvy dungeon designer needs to know the difference between traps that are cunningly placed and traps that are masochistically placed. Sure, you can design a dungeon that feature entire corridors and floors filled with traps, and hey, some players may enjoy that. However, I feel traps lose their thrill when done like that. I much prefer trap placement to be logical and common enough to stay on guard, but not so common as to make exploring a dungeon an exercise in frustration and clicking every tile to disarm them.

eldarth

My biggest concern with the traps is being limited in their placement.
For instance, if I've got a 20' wide hallway, and I want a nice floor spike trap across the hallway, hopefully I can place four 5'x5' traps side by side to cover the width of the hall and not have some minimum spacing between traps.

armored22

I would think you would be able to set traps in the foundry that would cover more area then what we have seen in the footage that showed traps that only covered a small tile area.

angrysprite

Traps... here's my input - and why the OP's comments about what they saw on video is the way it needs to be.

I played a Trickster Rogue. Rogue CAN see traps - when you're right on top of them (like two steps from them). In dark areas: they can be impossible to see. Please allow me to explain my experience with traps:

I ran across spike traps (spikes shoot up from the ground) - these are easy to spot because you can see the physical spike "system" and it has an unique look to it. I ran across buzz-saw traps, they also can be seen somewhat easily IF you're paying attention. I mean really paying attention. The darts trap? You're going to set it off 99% of the time, and by then why bother disarming it (unless you're with a team)?

Foundry authors: placing a row of traps across a floor of a long hallway is not the way to do it. First, they are too easy to spot and what good is that? It's not a trap, it's hazard. The best Foundry maps I played that made excellent use of traps have them placed at doorways and archways. The threshold going into the next room. Of that vine-covered passageway from one part of the forest trail to the next part. A good trap *works* - meaning you trigger it.

WHY there must be a way around the trap: Traps caused an average (if I remember) of 1/8 your health. The problem is this: unlike other games, health does NOT regenerate. If your health is at 25% and you don't have spells, potions or an alter (portable alters to pray to your deity) - there is NO WAY to regenerate health without running ALLLLLLL the way back to the resting fire (spawn point). Then you round a corner and a mob gets you. You respawn at the respawn point (which is usually the only health regeneration point) - then make your way alllllllll the way back to where you were (which could be a *very, very long walk*.)

Too many traps, causing me to drink-up all my healing potions on your map? I'll give zero stars and a bad review.

Once your traps in two doorways catch me, it will train me early that I need to watch out for traps in doorways (as long as the map is *consistent*). Traps that are placed loosely on the floor of a room that are easy enough to walk around are not there to surprise you. They are there to make the requisite bad guy horde combat more difficult (or tricky, if you will) - because you'll be moving around a lot. If you see traps "salt and peppered" on a floor in a large room or hallway: expect there to be a fight. That's the purpose of those traps: to catch you as you do your battle-dance.

So these "traps" are used in one of two ways: as a "trap" (say, hidden in a doorway to surprise you) or as a "Hazard" (openly visible, but intended to make the area more dangerous in general to move around in, especially in combat).

The only creative use of traps all lined in a row I saw was in a relatively large room. You walked in, there was the Boss. Saw trap lined the way on either side, creating a "battle arena" - effectively shrinking the space where the fight must happen. Once the fight was done and Boss defeated, I deactivated one so I could cross it rather than walking all the way to the back of the room where I entered just to go around them. The point being there was a way around them - which there should always be.

razorrxgdb

While I would love deadly traps and trap filled dungeons - the sad fact is that taking a page from the history of DDO -

Players will complain, players will rate your foundry content poorly, etc. and traps would be nerfed into a minor annoyance. This is being marketed as an 'action' rpg thus you can not really have slow progress through a trap filled dungeon. You have to have the mad rush slaying all the easy mobs before the gang bang on the moderate mob.

Now that is a jaded opinion, and I would LOVE to be proven wrong - but history says I will be right.

eldarth

angrysprite wrote: »

Foundry authors: placing a row of traps across a floor of a long hallway is not the way to do it. First, they are too easy to spot and what good is that? It's not a trap, it's hazard.

Sometimes, you need a good hazard.
But definitely not something you want all over the place. I just don't want to be prevented from making a side passage or special area a little more difficult to get through. It also depends on if you can still by an "I'm a Thief" potion for pennies.

angrysprite wrote: »

Traps that are placed loosely on the floor of a room that are easy enough to walk around are not there to surprise you. They are there to make the requisite bad guy horde combat more difficult (or tricky, if you will) - because you'll be moving around a lot. If you see traps "salt and peppered" on a floor in a large room or hallway: expect there to be a fight. That's the purpose of those traps: to catch you as you do your battle-dance.

One of the issues I've found with these, is I'll carefully step around the room noting where the traps are between myself and the mob and then attack them at range, backing out of the room and drawing the mob through all those random traps setting them off on themselves.

daventry23

Also me being i rogue i got no incentive for disarming traps , i disarmed the first 3-4 i found but after that it was a waste of playtime. I'd like to see rogues get something outta it , like small amount of xp or some kinda incentive. I do understand that other classes would need incentives as well. Guardian blocking dmg or taunting in a party bonus / clerics heal bonus etc dunno just a thought.

otherwise traps will just stay traps.

chili1179

I would be concerned about traps if this were an actual representation of a system that supports searching for such things but since it's a pretty basic run from group of monsters to the next group of monsters, there is no real support for taking your time searching for these things from what I have seen.

I question why they even bothered putting traps in with this kind of game play and from what I have seen and read, the traps do little damage, which further begs me to question the reason they are even in the game.

zumanjee

I like the idea of traps and the rogue having the job of disarming them, but what I dont understand is how the rogue can have enough time to warn people of an upcoming trap? Seems to me that typically you have your groups tank lead the way but if he's out in front it seems like he would be constantly triggering traps before the rogue could do anything about it. I think with this games built-in voice chat that will help for people that use it since the person playing the rogue can just say "wait! Theres a trap!". But those who don't have the ability to use voice chat just plainly won't be able to stop people from running through the traps unless their group has the rogue lead the group through the content.

ysil6969

zumanjee wrote: »

I like the idea of traps and the rogue having the job of disarming them, but what I dont understand is how the rogue can have enough time to warn people of an upcoming trap? Seems to me that typically you have your groups tank lead the way but if he's out in front it seems like he would be constantly triggering traps before the rogue could do anything about it. I think with this games built-in voice chat that will help for people that use it since the person playing the rogue can just say "wait! Theres a trap!". But those who don't have the ability to use voice chat just plainly won't be able to stop people from running through the traps unless their group has the rogue lead the group through the content.

Macro? Hit key x and have it trigger /party Stop! Trap!.... I wonder if General Akabar was a rogue...

As for people rating down your foundry mission because it has traps. Well if that's the case than the community's already doomed. Why not just have a starting chest with all the end game loot and call it done, if people just want to rush through everything.

reaperking66

i love the idea of traps in action, rpg and/or mmos, but (as a few have said) unless the rogue is in the front it doesn't seem like a good way to have the trap detect system work. now i cant say anything for sure as the game is still in beta but perhaps extending the detect range for rogues or give traps a small detail that all can see. have the rogue see the whole spike trap and have say a guardian see a few holes in the tile? just my idea but i would hope that the NWO team has already taken this into consideration.

ysil6969

reaperking66 wrote: »

i love the idea of traps in action, rpg and/or mmos, but (as a few have said) unless the rogue is in the front it doesn't seem like a good way to have the trap detect system work. now i cant say anything for sure as the game is still in beta but perhaps extending the detect range for rogues or give traps a small detail that all can see. have the rogue see the whole spike trap and have say a guardian see a few holes in the tile? just my idea but i would hope that the NWO team has already taken this into consideration.

I know a lot of people hate DDO, but I liked the way their trap detection worked. You got a fair ranged warning on your screen that you sense a trap, tell your party to stop, and commence searching/disarming.

Also I really like the idea of small but subtle hints for people who can't detect the whole trap. Realistically people should have a perception skill to determine whether they see traps or not. But they took skills out for some reason or haven't put them in yet? Solminator said they haven't talked about skills yet. Dunno if that means its going to be in later or if they aren't going to talk about them at all.

the1tigglet

Well what I was saying wasn't just for foundry but for dungeons as well even solo ones, it just seems the traps that do exist are very tiny block so people can easily walk around them even when they aren't a rogue. And some of them don't do any damage hardly like the dart attacks. It's just odd to me how they have this setup. Now I totally understand this at early level because people shouldn't be dieing constantly to get thru a simple quest but do they get harder as the levels increase? Will they encompass a larger block? Will there be instantdeath traps in dungeons end game? Will magic users gain the spells to see them and secret doors? Will there be condition traps that require special circumstances (poison removal)?

Like I said I'm not hardcore and I wouldn't put together endless traps in a dungeon (unless it was a treasure room with lots of loot and even then I wouldn't go nuts with it) but it just seems to me part of the fun is missing from anticipating this type of danger in the dungeons/instances and learning from the experience to try to avoid them next time instead of doing a dance all over the things.

ysil6969

daventry23 wrote: »

Also me being i rogue i got no incentive for disarming traps , i disarmed the first 3-4 i found but after that it was a waste of playtime. I'd like to see rogues get something outta it , like small amount of xp or some kinda incentive. I do understand that other classes would need incentives as well. Guardian blocking dmg or taunting in a party bonus / clerics heal bonus etc dunno just a thought.

otherwise traps will just stay traps.

Thought about this. Really they could just give the trap disarm xp bonus to the whole party. It would make sense (your parties disarmed a trap, your party gets exp.)