I'm not fronting a realism argument here. The fantasy world they're using, has their own definitive conditions for this race. It's DnD's need for a little realism that I'm citing. If this was Cryptic Fantasy Online, and their halflings were waving around semi trucks I wouldn't care. Not that I care that much anyways, it'd just help my ocd a lot of this game was closer to the PHB... >,> I'm just going to be muttering to myself about how I shouldn't be allowed to wield this greatsword as I slaughter everything
Lol, I can understand that, but DM's have always had the ability to change the "laws" at will if they want. As a halfling lover (hmm that sounds wierd) I feel that if a halfling has a high enough strength value, he should be able to wield the same weapons as dwarves of humans. leverage etc does factor in to some degree, but over all strength is strength. A stronger human can wield a longer sword/hammer etc, and strength is certainly a bigger factor in the length/weight of the weapon that can be wielded then hieght is. It's true, that a creature HALF the height of a human in our world would not be able to wield as large of a weapon, but we are dealing with magical creatures (halflings are magical too) that are supposed to be able to have the same strength as a fully buffed out human being (and for that matter, more con...so they are actually HARDER to kill).
In my mind, and so in a DnD campaign I might run, that would mean halflings may have more difficulty wielding the larger weapons, but if they have the strength and the skill (which they learn as a GWF), then they should be able to do it.
Even things like jumping etc can be explained. In fact, halflings who have more strength in proportion to their weight, should be able to jump higher then dwarves, humans or elves (if your applying physics to the situation). How a creature half the mass of a human can have more possible max health (so need to take more damage to kill) can be explained is also impossible really without applying magic.
Smaller center of gravity is usually positive all around, giving you better leverage with your body (more use of any strength you do have) more balance, faster reflexes etc. Your top speed of movement should be slower even with the same stats though, and without magic you should be easy to hurt or cripple.
So basically, it doesn't make sense to apply logic or physics to halflings. They just are a magical race and leave it at that. If you are going down that route, then them using the same weapons as humans/dwarves isn't that much of a stretch really.
Also....humans that have a 12 strength and humans that have a 20+ strength use the same 2 handed weapons. If you really wanted to apply a penalty to halfings, you should make the min required strength to use weapons higher for them (by say 2 points). Now that would make sense thematically and by the laws of physics. It takes MORE strength to use a larger weapon in proportion to yourself. So a human might be able to wield a greatsword with a 12 strength, but a halfling would need at least a 14 strength to wield the same weapon.
On top of that you could apply speed bonuses/penalties to weapons based on strength (especially great weapons) with halflings needing 2-4 more strength to reach the same level as a human etc. So a human would be able to wield a two handed weapon faster and easier then a halfling...but they both would do the same damage with them.
Anyway none of that really matters I guess, just throwing out itdeas.
Yeah since they took away the hit to str halflings used to get it really doesn't make sense anymore. Before they would always be 2 points behind the others for str, so it made sense they couldn't lift what others could. Now they're equal.
Oh, and Btw. Halflings being out was just a type-o apparently. Confirmed by sominator and are now back in the FAQ
We all have different tastes. I don't think there was ever a definitive D&D taste or style. I mean look at the contrasting styles and methods across "Tomb of Horrors" and "Against the Giants" and "Expedition to the Barrier Peaks" and "White Plume Mountain".
That said, for my own personal taste, I dislike this bizarre and somewhat dissonant fusion between "dark themes" and "cartoon action and imagery". It's like one of those teenage films that promises to be all dark and deep, but is in fact, just a very tacky love triangle and a lot of "first world" emotive angst.
In other words, take the premise a little less seriously, but take the actual imagery and delivery of that premise a little more seriously.
So yeah, if you insist on making Halflings look all dour, tough and hard core, then don't then hand them weapons, that are just massive phallic symbols, that are, to my eyes, just kind of a joke.
But who cares what this old man thinks? The market speaks out on these things and the market has made it clear, they like Drow with lots of cleavage and "tough" Halflings with phallic swords the size of Saturn. So be it. I can live with that.
As a RPer, I can cater to my own taste anyway, I can find the niche of players that enjoy the same themes and plots I do and we can weave and create those plots and characters together.
D&D has always struggled a little with Halflings. Hard to think of an iconic module that featured prominent Halflings in the initial wave of D&D in the late 70's and early 80's. The one that stands out for me, was the Halfling on the back cover of the "A" series, where you fought ant-people (or whatever the hell they were, just an awful series of modules). He was all cranky and cartoonish.
I'll tell you, D&D writers are wonderful and creative, but so many of them are beta-males who worship alpha-male action heroes. It's why so often D&D just utterly fails to give women any real kind of depth in their writing and why so many characters just wind up being cardboard action heroes, dressed up to be a particular class. I'm not talking about the awful politically correct purge that ruined D&D in 2e, I am talking about depth of character. Let's face it, it truly lacks sometimes in D&D (not always of course) and in particular with Halflings.
The writers seem to resent Halflings almost as much as Slaviscek resented Gnomes, which led to them being completely purged in base 4e, in favor of Drow and Tieflings with cleavage.
SHADOW - A secret cabal for those who thirst for wealth and power. Check out SHADOW on YouTube!
Exactly. The number of things we already have to hand-wave and ignore in order to suspend disbelief and go along for the fantasy ride is huge. Why nitpick on certain things due to "realism"?
Because it looks stupid and i'd rather not have to even see it.
I mean if we're being honest here, that's what it comes down to. Like if there's a GWF halfling wielding a full sized weapon, i'm going to pretend that person doesn't even exist.
See, i'm a fan of consistency in tone. The world of DnD (generally speaking of course), while it was never Mount&Blade, it was still somewhat grounded in reality with an inkling of real world physics. (hence, carry capacity based on your strength) Sure it was a fantasy setting, but it was by most standards, a reasonably well grounded fantasy setting, and I would like for it to remain that way...
Yeah since they took away the hit to str halflings used to get it really doesn't make sense anymore. Before they would always be 2 points behind the others for str, so it made sense they couldn't lift what others could. Now they're equal.
Oh, and Btw. Halflings being out was just a type-o apparently. Confirmed by sominator and are now back in the FAQ
Woot!! Yeah!! *jumps for joy!*
I was trying to play it cool, but I was really kinda sad I wasn't going to be able to play a halfling at launch if that was the case. Really happy I can still do so.
Devon,
I don't know if I'll be playing a halfling GWF or not (I know my rogue is going to be a halfling and I do like diversity in my characters), but why ignore halfling GWFs? It's a magical world and halflings could be similar to ants, able to lift more in proportion to their body weight then most other races. In 4e (which we are playing for good or bad) halflings do not get a strength penalty. If you ditch the strength penalty I personally think it's dumb to restrict the weapons they can use.
Also, I think they already have scaling for weapons based on the character size. My rogue halfling didn't seem to have huge daggers in his hands compared to my human halfling (I was testing the class out so leveled 2 of them up). Both seemed to have daggers that were appropriately sized for the character.
Probably the same will be true with the great weapons as well.
I guess I'll have enough slots to play 2 GWFs if I want (one halfling and one dwarf) but with a rogue and *hopefully* wizard to play as well, I doubt I'll roll up another char of the same class. Maybe if Wizard really isn't available I will.
Race to me doesn't make much of a big difference as far as power anymore in 4e (much less then it did in 3-3.5)...so it's all really thematic. Halfling rogue just works for me thematically (love it). I was a fan of Dragonlance and halflings and rogues will always be entwined in my mind because of that to some extent. I love the light heartedness you can have as a halfling even when playing a serious role. I love playing brawny halflings as it's so unexpected for such a small guy to be so strong etc. Never been a huge fan of elves or dwarves (although some have been fun to play or play with), Humans are...well yeah us pretty much, gnomes are kinda ugly although I like them in dragonlance a bit more and Drow will always be evil to me (I know they are not all evil now, and have not ALWAYS been evil, but they are evil to me...which is fine if I want to be an evil char but not normally).
I guess I just like the lightheartedness of the halfling race, or at least the way I often play my halflings. They are great at many roles and can bring fun to any group.
I'm really glad they will be in at launch.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
If you sir, are trying to make an argument for NOT having more Drow with lots of cleavage in D&D, then I'm afraid we shall have to meet. At dawn. With pistols drawn.
If you sir, are trying to make an argument for NOT having more Drow with lots of cleavage in D&D, then I'm afraid we shall have to meet. At dawn. With pistols drawn.
Bewbs. Gets the nerds to cough up their wallets every time.
It's not just the ridiculous and wholly unnatural cleavage either. I just wish women were better represented. Again, not in a politically-correct way either, just you know, more female characters that were more like real women and less like Batman with bewbs.
What kills me is I've sat in meetings where D&D designers lament that a very small minority of their customers are women (like ridiculously low), but none of the writers in the room are married, none of them with successful relationships either and all of them subscribe to Maxim.
I can tell you, the female gamers who are part of our guild (and yes we have a few, we have more women than men in our guild, and yes real women), they appreciate the game has a slider for bewbs. Why? So they can reduce the size, because by default the mammories are ridiculous and they only turn into complete laughable balloons as you go up.
What's interesting is that digital gaming has done a far better job of attracting women to their product than paper games. It's because the paper games are still very reactionary and quite frankly, very derivative in their thinking and creation.
To bring this back to Halflings and their laughable swords, it's just kind of sad that Halflings have been turned into this "tough guy with Napoleon syndrome" in D&D. There's not much charm to them anymore. They are, for the most part, always got angry looks, always dressed in sharp, pointy semi-gothic gear and come across more like some mean Tom Cruise, only shorter, (but not much shorter, 'cause Tom Cruise is really tiny).
You add a sword that's bigger than a house and ask them to swing it, and the whole charade just seems to collapse.
I just yearn for something a little less, you know, TACKY.
I know it's fantasy, I know it's D&D, there's just certain cartoonish virtue and moral that I have to accept. This isn't Somerset Maugham, this isn't Gore Vidal here.
But does it have to be so utterly, you know, pandering to beta-male's most base instincts? Does it really have to treat us all with such contempt?
There's some quote about "not going broke" by "underestimating", that I think covers my answer.
I just need to accept that this is what it is and probably always will be.
So move that slider to max and enjoy I guess!
SHADOW - A secret cabal for those who thirst for wealth and power. Check out SHADOW on YouTube!
This is one reason why NwN 1 is the best Neverwinter game. If NwN1 is the best then go play it and leave us alone? ORGINAL!... The rules put on Gnomes and Halflings due to their size was awesome and so realistic. Not to mention all races, as a Giant could hold a greatsword with one hand. I say rules versus restrictions because they (Gnomes & Halflings) also came with bonuses. I do not know if this rule carried over into 4th ED but it did not get into DDO because no game company wants to deal with making it, then the drama of races being better and worse at classes objectives because of said rule set. It is rules like this that make DnD what it is and so enjoyable. It is the rules of DnD and the Lore of DnD that make playing a DnD Wizard different than playing a WoW Wizard for example. At least from the beta video they are not giving us hot pink and bright blue hair, which is commendable.
Yeah. For me halfling was that race that lacked in size, but had heart. So seeing them swinging a longsword or battleaxe with two hands was awesome. Because here's a little guy, who can barely hold a one handed weapon in two hands, that's battling the odds and winning.
Edit: I also really hope they didn't scale down dwarf weapons to fit. Because no decent dwarf would be caught dead with a smaller sized weapon...
I think some us prefer to judge by actual heart, than size.
That's the thing, instead of developing actual heart and character into Halflings, they've turned them into laughable blenders spinning around with weapons, that seem desperately over-compensating for something.
But hey, it works, people love it, (see Drow with bewbs commentary earlier).
And before I come across as a prude or snob, let me just admit one of my favorite bands ever is KISS. This not only makes any argument I state, utterly irrelevant, it also reveals I am quite capable of liking things that are big, dumb and utterly stupid.
SHADOW - A secret cabal for those who thirst for wealth and power. Check out SHADOW on YouTube!
Halflings we should note are larger in 4th ed than their counterparts in 3rd. In 4th, they're not much shorter than dwarves. Shorter by enough, but not to much. Since 3.x and again in 4th, there have been rules for size equivalent weapons. They may not do the same amount of damage as the baseline medium appropriate weapon, but daggers have been available for giants, and full blades available for pixies for years now.
The mmo will probably scale the weapons to suit the race, so a human's greatsword is still much bigger than a halfling's greatsword, but they can both swing around large weapons. But I don't see them changing the damage stats. Of course I could be wrong, and a GWF will be using one handed weapons for medium sized creatures, but I do doubt it.
4th ed player's handbook.
Dwarf height: 4'3"-4'9"
Halfling: 3'10-4'2"
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ladydwarfMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
... it's just kind of sad that Halflings have been turned into this "tough guy with Napoleon syndrome" in D&D. There's not much charm to them anymore. They are, for the most part, always got angry looks, always dressed in sharp, pointy semi-gothic gear and come across more like some mean Tom Cruise, only shorter, (but not much shorter, 'cause Tom Cruise is really tiny).
Not to get too far off the topic, but this quote jumped out at me, as I had similar thoughts when I first started looking at Neverwinter.
I gravitate toward the short races in RPGs, and learning that halflings were in the game, they seemed a natural first choice. The last I'd looked at D&D was 2nd Edition, so I had a lot of catching up to do. Upon reading about 4th Edition halflings, however, my reaction was "why did they turn them into tiny humans?" Much of the Hobbit-esque charm is gone; heck, the player's guide says they're proportioned like humans now. Most of their cultural detail is terribly generic and doesn't really separate them from other races.
I certainly don't dislike the idea of badarse halfling GWFs in scary armor; I've roleplayed gnome warriors in other games who were just as intimidating, rugged and snarly as soldiers twice their height. However, the overall flavor and vibe should still be different. Your average tough-gal elf is quite different from your average tough-gal human, thanks to differences of physique and cultural background. The "new and improved" halflings no longer have that sense of uniqueness. They're mini-humans. This is boring.
This is why I'm leaning towards dwarves instead, who fortunately have survived 4th Edition with their charm and flavor intact. Also, dwarven models in this game are awesome.
I certainly don't dislike the idea of badarse halfling GWFs in scary armor; I've roleplayed gnome warriors in other games who were just as intimidating, rugged and snarly as soldiers twice their height. However, the overall flavor and vibe should still be different. Your average tough-gal elf is quite different from your average tough-gal human, thanks to differences of physique and cultural background. The "new and improved" halflings no longer have that sense of uniqueness. They're mini-humans. This is boring.
This is why I'm leaning towards dwarves instead, who fortunately have survived 4th Edition with their charm and flavor intact. Also, dwarven models in this game are awesome.
Awesome post and I concur on several points.
Wizards just isn't thinking very creatively these days. I mean did you ever see Dreamblade? They invested over 10 million in that dreck.
Part of what happened was Wizards had to continually lay off people and a lot of the people they laid off were their most creative. A lot of people remaining, are politically well-entrenched in the firm, but not always you're brightest and most avant-garde.
I am confident it will rebound. Good news is 4e was largely a disaster (its why 5e is coming out so fast) and D&D as a brand has suffered, especially in the last two years, and that FORCES change.
I'll expect Halflings will get better treatment.
And I expect the utter disgrace of ignoring Gnomes entirely in the base books will get corrected as well.
But I agree, 4e Halflings are quite dull and to make them less dull, they've given them laughably massive swords to swing.
I'll RP one anyway eventually, because Halflings are so much fun to RP, but I'll do my best to make him a bit frumpy and a bit neurotic, with a real sense of dignity to them.
SHADOW - A secret cabal for those who thirst for wealth and power. Check out SHADOW on YouTube!
I was trying to play it cool, but I was really kinda sad I wasn't going to be able to play a halfling at launch if that was the case. Really happy I can still do so.
Devon,
I don't know if I'll be playing a halfling GWF or not (I know my rogue is going to be a halfling and I do like diversity in my characters), but why ignore halfling GWFs? It's a magical world and halflings could be similar to ants, able to lift more in proportion to their body weight then most other races. In 4e (which we are playing for good or bad) halflings do not get a strength penalty. If you ditch the strength penalty I personally think it's dumb to restrict the weapons they can use.
Also, I think they already have scaling for weapons based on the character size. My rogue halfling didn't seem to have huge daggers in his hands compared to my human halfling (I was testing the class out so leveled 2 of them up). Both seemed to have daggers that were appropriately sized for the character.
Probably the same will be true with the great weapons as well.
I guess I'll have enough slots to play 2 GWFs if I want (one halfling and one dwarf) but with a rogue and *hopefully* wizard to play as well, I doubt I'll roll up another char of the same class. Maybe if Wizard really isn't available I will.
Race to me doesn't make much of a big difference as far as power anymore in 4e (much less then it did in 3-3.5)...so it's all really thematic. Halfling rogue just works for me thematically (love it). I was a fan of Dragonlance and halflings and rogues will always be entwined in my mind because of that to some extent. I love the light heartedness you can have as a halfling even when playing a serious role. I love playing brawny halflings as it's so unexpected for such a small guy to be so strong etc. Never been a huge fan of elves or dwarves (although some have been fun to play or play with), Humans are...well yeah us pretty much, gnomes are kinda ugly although I like them in dragonlance a bit more and Drow will always be evil to me (I know they are not all evil now, and have not ALWAYS been evil, but they are evil to me...which is fine if I want to be an evil char but not normally).
I guess I just like the lightheartedness of the halfling race, or at least the way I often play my halflings. They are great at many roles and can bring fun to any group.
I'm really glad they will be in at launch.
You're asking a question you already have an answer to. It looks stupid and visually unpleasant to me to see a halfling swinging a greatsword around like he's ****ing dante. You don't have to share in this opinion (it's fine if you don't), but this is my feeling on the matter. It's just dumb.
Should a halfling named Yoda be able to fight a normal Jedi? Should his sword be as big as the other Jedi's?
Should he be able to prevent huge stone pillars from falling over other people or be able to lift fighters from swamps?
How are you guys going to accomplish this? Halflings can't use 2h weapons... Are you guys going to make new loot tables for GWF Halfling? And is this why they've been scratched from launch for Half-orcs. I'm assuming creating all new weapons just for halflings would be a little time consuming, unless the guardian fighter stats on their 1h weapons are sufficient for a gwf?
Edit Post:I'm not saying they've officially been scratched either.
They have accomplished this the same way that in WoW a gnome fighter can wield a two-handed weapon Just immagine that it is the weapon that wields the halfling or gnome and not the other way around:D
Btw that was what a french king (famous for his jokes ) said when he saw his brother in law that was rather short with an enormous sword to his side: "Hang the coward that dared to tie my brother in law to that big sword"
Comments
Lol, I can understand that, but DM's have always had the ability to change the "laws" at will if they want. As a halfling lover (hmm that sounds wierd) I feel that if a halfling has a high enough strength value, he should be able to wield the same weapons as dwarves of humans. leverage etc does factor in to some degree, but over all strength is strength. A stronger human can wield a longer sword/hammer etc, and strength is certainly a bigger factor in the length/weight of the weapon that can be wielded then hieght is. It's true, that a creature HALF the height of a human in our world would not be able to wield as large of a weapon, but we are dealing with magical creatures (halflings are magical too) that are supposed to be able to have the same strength as a fully buffed out human being (and for that matter, more con...so they are actually HARDER to kill).
In my mind, and so in a DnD campaign I might run, that would mean halflings may have more difficulty wielding the larger weapons, but if they have the strength and the skill (which they learn as a GWF), then they should be able to do it.
Even things like jumping etc can be explained. In fact, halflings who have more strength in proportion to their weight, should be able to jump higher then dwarves, humans or elves (if your applying physics to the situation). How a creature half the mass of a human can have more possible max health (so need to take more damage to kill) can be explained is also impossible really without applying magic.
Smaller center of gravity is usually positive all around, giving you better leverage with your body (more use of any strength you do have) more balance, faster reflexes etc. Your top speed of movement should be slower even with the same stats though, and without magic you should be easy to hurt or cripple.
So basically, it doesn't make sense to apply logic or physics to halflings. They just are a magical race and leave it at that. If you are going down that route, then them using the same weapons as humans/dwarves isn't that much of a stretch really.
Also....humans that have a 12 strength and humans that have a 20+ strength use the same 2 handed weapons. If you really wanted to apply a penalty to halfings, you should make the min required strength to use weapons higher for them (by say 2 points). Now that would make sense thematically and by the laws of physics. It takes MORE strength to use a larger weapon in proportion to yourself. So a human might be able to wield a greatsword with a 12 strength, but a halfling would need at least a 14 strength to wield the same weapon.
On top of that you could apply speed bonuses/penalties to weapons based on strength (especially great weapons) with halflings needing 2-4 more strength to reach the same level as a human etc. So a human would be able to wield a two handed weapon faster and easier then a halfling...but they both would do the same damage with them.
Anyway none of that really matters I guess, just throwing out itdeas.
Oh, and Btw. Halflings being out was just a type-o apparently. Confirmed by sominator and are now back in the FAQ
That said, for my own personal taste, I dislike this bizarre and somewhat dissonant fusion between "dark themes" and "cartoon action and imagery". It's like one of those teenage films that promises to be all dark and deep, but is in fact, just a very tacky love triangle and a lot of "first world" emotive angst.
In other words, take the premise a little less seriously, but take the actual imagery and delivery of that premise a little more seriously.
So yeah, if you insist on making Halflings look all dour, tough and hard core, then don't then hand them weapons, that are just massive phallic symbols, that are, to my eyes, just kind of a joke.
But who cares what this old man thinks? The market speaks out on these things and the market has made it clear, they like Drow with lots of cleavage and "tough" Halflings with phallic swords the size of Saturn. So be it. I can live with that.
As a RPer, I can cater to my own taste anyway, I can find the niche of players that enjoy the same themes and plots I do and we can weave and create those plots and characters together.
D&D has always struggled a little with Halflings. Hard to think of an iconic module that featured prominent Halflings in the initial wave of D&D in the late 70's and early 80's. The one that stands out for me, was the Halfling on the back cover of the "A" series, where you fought ant-people (or whatever the hell they were, just an awful series of modules). He was all cranky and cartoonish.
I'll tell you, D&D writers are wonderful and creative, but so many of them are beta-males who worship alpha-male action heroes. It's why so often D&D just utterly fails to give women any real kind of depth in their writing and why so many characters just wind up being cardboard action heroes, dressed up to be a particular class. I'm not talking about the awful politically correct purge that ruined D&D in 2e, I am talking about depth of character. Let's face it, it truly lacks sometimes in D&D (not always of course) and in particular with Halflings.
The writers seem to resent Halflings almost as much as Slaviscek resented Gnomes, which led to them being completely purged in base 4e, in favor of Drow and Tieflings with cleavage.
Check out SHADOW on YouTube!
Because it looks stupid and i'd rather not have to even see it.
I mean if we're being honest here, that's what it comes down to. Like if there's a GWF halfling wielding a full sized weapon, i'm going to pretend that person doesn't even exist.
See, i'm a fan of consistency in tone. The world of DnD (generally speaking of course), while it was never Mount&Blade, it was still somewhat grounded in reality with an inkling of real world physics. (hence, carry capacity based on your strength) Sure it was a fantasy setting, but it was by most standards, a reasonably well grounded fantasy setting, and I would like for it to remain that way...
Woot!! Yeah!! *jumps for joy!*
I was trying to play it cool, but I was really kinda sad I wasn't going to be able to play a halfling at launch if that was the case. Really happy I can still do so.
Devon,
I don't know if I'll be playing a halfling GWF or not (I know my rogue is going to be a halfling and I do like diversity in my characters), but why ignore halfling GWFs? It's a magical world and halflings could be similar to ants, able to lift more in proportion to their body weight then most other races. In 4e (which we are playing for good or bad) halflings do not get a strength penalty. If you ditch the strength penalty I personally think it's dumb to restrict the weapons they can use.
Also, I think they already have scaling for weapons based on the character size. My rogue halfling didn't seem to have huge daggers in his hands compared to my human halfling (I was testing the class out so leveled 2 of them up). Both seemed to have daggers that were appropriately sized for the character.
Probably the same will be true with the great weapons as well.
I guess I'll have enough slots to play 2 GWFs if I want (one halfling and one dwarf) but with a rogue and *hopefully* wizard to play as well, I doubt I'll roll up another char of the same class. Maybe if Wizard really isn't available I will.
Race to me doesn't make much of a big difference as far as power anymore in 4e (much less then it did in 3-3.5)...so it's all really thematic. Halfling rogue just works for me thematically (love it). I was a fan of Dragonlance and halflings and rogues will always be entwined in my mind because of that to some extent. I love the light heartedness you can have as a halfling even when playing a serious role. I love playing brawny halflings as it's so unexpected for such a small guy to be so strong etc. Never been a huge fan of elves or dwarves (although some have been fun to play or play with), Humans are...well yeah us pretty much, gnomes are kinda ugly although I like them in dragonlance a bit more and Drow will always be evil to me (I know they are not all evil now, and have not ALWAYS been evil, but they are evil to me...which is fine if I want to be an evil char but not normally).
I guess I just like the lightheartedness of the halfling race, or at least the way I often play my halflings. They are great at many roles and can bring fun to any group.
I'm really glad they will be in at launch.
If you sir, are trying to make an argument for NOT having more Drow with lots of cleavage in D&D, then I'm afraid we shall have to meet. At dawn. With pistols drawn.
Tieflings too, gotta love dem handlebars. :cool:
Bewbs. Gets the nerds to cough up their wallets every time.
It's not just the ridiculous and wholly unnatural cleavage either. I just wish women were better represented. Again, not in a politically-correct way either, just you know, more female characters that were more like real women and less like Batman with bewbs.
What kills me is I've sat in meetings where D&D designers lament that a very small minority of their customers are women (like ridiculously low), but none of the writers in the room are married, none of them with successful relationships either and all of them subscribe to Maxim.
I can tell you, the female gamers who are part of our guild (and yes we have a few, we have more women than men in our guild, and yes real women), they appreciate the game has a slider for bewbs. Why? So they can reduce the size, because by default the mammories are ridiculous and they only turn into complete laughable balloons as you go up.
What's interesting is that digital gaming has done a far better job of attracting women to their product than paper games. It's because the paper games are still very reactionary and quite frankly, very derivative in their thinking and creation.
To bring this back to Halflings and their laughable swords, it's just kind of sad that Halflings have been turned into this "tough guy with Napoleon syndrome" in D&D. There's not much charm to them anymore. They are, for the most part, always got angry looks, always dressed in sharp, pointy semi-gothic gear and come across more like some mean Tom Cruise, only shorter, (but not much shorter, 'cause Tom Cruise is really tiny).
You add a sword that's bigger than a house and ask them to swing it, and the whole charade just seems to collapse.
I just yearn for something a little less, you know, TACKY.
I know it's fantasy, I know it's D&D, there's just certain cartoonish virtue and moral that I have to accept. This isn't Somerset Maugham, this isn't Gore Vidal here.
But does it have to be so utterly, you know, pandering to beta-male's most base instincts? Does it really have to treat us all with such contempt?
There's some quote about "not going broke" by "underestimating", that I think covers my answer.
I just need to accept that this is what it is and probably always will be.
So move that slider to max and enjoy I guess!
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Edit: I also really hope they didn't scale down dwarf weapons to fit. Because no decent dwarf would be caught dead with a smaller sized weapon...
That's the thing, instead of developing actual heart and character into Halflings, they've turned them into laughable blenders spinning around with weapons, that seem desperately over-compensating for something.
But hey, it works, people love it, (see Drow with bewbs commentary earlier).
And before I come across as a prude or snob, let me just admit one of my favorite bands ever is KISS. This not only makes any argument I state, utterly irrelevant, it also reveals I am quite capable of liking things that are big, dumb and utterly stupid.
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The mmo will probably scale the weapons to suit the race, so a human's greatsword is still much bigger than a halfling's greatsword, but they can both swing around large weapons. But I don't see them changing the damage stats. Of course I could be wrong, and a GWF will be using one handed weapons for medium sized creatures, but I do doubt it.
4th ed player's handbook.
Dwarf height: 4'3"-4'9"
Halfling: 3'10-4'2"
Not to get too far off the topic, but this quote jumped out at me, as I had similar thoughts when I first started looking at Neverwinter.
I gravitate toward the short races in RPGs, and learning that halflings were in the game, they seemed a natural first choice. The last I'd looked at D&D was 2nd Edition, so I had a lot of catching up to do. Upon reading about 4th Edition halflings, however, my reaction was "why did they turn them into tiny humans?" Much of the Hobbit-esque charm is gone; heck, the player's guide says they're proportioned like humans now. Most of their cultural detail is terribly generic and doesn't really separate them from other races.
I certainly don't dislike the idea of badarse halfling GWFs in scary armor; I've roleplayed gnome warriors in other games who were just as intimidating, rugged and snarly as soldiers twice their height. However, the overall flavor and vibe should still be different. Your average tough-gal elf is quite different from your average tough-gal human, thanks to differences of physique and cultural background. The "new and improved" halflings no longer have that sense of uniqueness. They're mini-humans. This is boring.
This is why I'm leaning towards dwarves instead, who fortunately have survived 4th Edition with their charm and flavor intact. Also, dwarven models in this game are awesome.
Awesome post and I concur on several points.
Wizards just isn't thinking very creatively these days. I mean did you ever see Dreamblade? They invested over 10 million in that dreck.
Part of what happened was Wizards had to continually lay off people and a lot of the people they laid off were their most creative. A lot of people remaining, are politically well-entrenched in the firm, but not always you're brightest and most avant-garde.
I am confident it will rebound. Good news is 4e was largely a disaster (its why 5e is coming out so fast) and D&D as a brand has suffered, especially in the last two years, and that FORCES change.
I'll expect Halflings will get better treatment.
And I expect the utter disgrace of ignoring Gnomes entirely in the base books will get corrected as well.
But I agree, 4e Halflings are quite dull and to make them less dull, they've given them laughably massive swords to swing.
I'll RP one anyway eventually, because Halflings are so much fun to RP, but I'll do my best to make him a bit frumpy and a bit neurotic, with a real sense of dignity to them.
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You're asking a question you already have an answer to. It looks stupid and visually unpleasant to me to see a halfling swinging a greatsword around like he's ****ing dante. You don't have to share in this opinion (it's fine if you don't), but this is my feeling on the matter. It's just dumb.
Should he be able to prevent huge stone pillars from falling over other people or be able to lift fighters from swamps?
May the force be with you...
Btw that was what a french king (famous for his jokes ) said when he saw his brother in law that was rather short with an enormous sword to his side: "Hang the coward that dared to tie my brother in law to that big sword"