will the GWF be a tank? off-tank or striker?

drakne007

im not sure either, alot of people who know 4e say hes a tank, but im not sure if there gonna do 2 tanks in the game?

nik80

drakne007 wrote: »

im not sure either, alot of people who know 4e say hes a tank, but im not sure if there gonna do 2 tanks in the game?

I was very curious about this myself. If I had to guess I would say that one of the trees that you can spec into could potentially be more support/defensive, but this is purely speculation on my part.

witchzero

Looks like DPS from the videos. Higher Damage mitigation through Armor and higher hit points. I'm sure you there will be a Paragon Tree with some "Tricks" for crowd control like abilities and maybe some buffs or de-buffs that enhance defenses. I personally plan to play GWF as DPS.

klangeddin

If I have to guess, I'll say the GWF will be able to switch between main DPS and off-tanking/supportdps depending on gear or feats choice.
Maybe they can main tank the "easiest" of content (at the appropriate level of course) with good gear.

Of course I expect them to be ALMOST ALWAYS (Read 99% of encounters) the second choice compared to the Guardian Fighter when it comes to tanking.

akwartz01

drakne007 wrote: »

im not sure either, alot of people who know 4e say hes a tank, but im not sure if there gonna do 2 tanks in the game?

He's much tougher than the Trickster Rogue (which makes sense since he can't dodge) but definitely not a tank.

nik80

akwartz01 wrote: »

He's much tougher than the Trickster Rogue

Phew, I was afraid the GW fighter was hauling around all that heavy armor for nothing! /sarcastic

iamtruthseeker

PWE is looking at me closely so no comment at this time

maliusnight

This thread is relevant to my interests.

deathssickle

" Fighter

"You'll have to deal with me first, dragon!"

Role: Defender. You are very tough and have the exceptional ability to contain enemies in melee."

...

"Great Weapon Fighter
You’re interested in dealing out the most damage
you can. You prefer big two-handed weapons such as
the greatsword or greataxe. You’re more interested
in fighting hard than fighting smart. Your best ability
score is definitely Strength. A good Constitution
improves your ability to use high damage weapons,
such as axes and hammers. Plus, extra hit points
always help. Select powers that work well with twohanded
weapons to make the most of this build.
Suggested Feat: Power Attack (Human feat:
Action Surge)
Suggested Skills: Athletics, Endurance, Intimidate
Suggested At-Will Powers: cleave, reaping strike
Suggested Encounter Power: spinning sweep
Suggested Daily Power: brute strike"
...

"Guardian Fighter
To fight better, you fight smarter. You’re willing to
trade offense for superior defenses and better ability
to control the battlefield around you. You fight
with a heavy shield and a good one-handed weapon,
such as a longsword, f lail, or battleaxe. Like the
great weapon fighter, you make Strength your best
ability score. After that, prioritize your Dexterity to
take advantage of weapons that can be improved by
Dexterity-based feats, or your Wisdom to make the
most of the combat superiority class feature. You’re
hard to hurt and hard to move away from. Select
powers that make use of your one-handed weapon
and shield, as well as take advantage of your higher
Dexterity score.
Suggested Feat: Weapon Focus (Human feat:
Human Perseverance)
Suggested Skills: Heal, Intimidate, Streetwise
Suggested At-Will Powers: sure strike, tide of iron
Suggested Encounter Power: covering attack
Suggested Daily Power: comeback strike"
...
"FIGHTER OVERVIEW
Characteristics: You are extremely tough, with a great
Armor Class and lots of hit points. You have extraordinary
resilience against physical attack. You don’t have much
ability to fight at range, but you excel in melee combat.
You have special abilities that make it dangerous for
enemies to ignore you, so you can contain foes and keep
them away from your friends.
Religion: Fighters naturally favor deities of war,
combat, adventure, or valor. Bahamut and Kord are popular,
as is Avandra. Many unaligned or evil fighters pay
homage to Bane, the god of war.
Races: Fighters come from all races. Dragonborn,
dwarves, and humans are the most common fighters."

silknight

I really want to know as well, since this will probably be my preferred class as well. Always seem to pick the heavy weapons classes in games that i play.

lithomed

The Guardian gets plate while the GWF gets scale, that sounds like less protection from armor. I would guess off-tank to dps depending on the spec and equipment.

sirnamed

Both get plate. They are the same class albeit different weapon focus and feat/skill selection. Heavy armour proficieny is a foundational thing to fighters. It will be thoroughly disappointing if Cryptic mess with that.

I would say off-tank is a fair call for GWF. Being more aggravating to mobs with increased DPS output is a different means of fulfilling the defensive role. They are still tough.

lithomed

No they do not, unless its later, after 30. All of the GWF armor drops I got during the beta weekend were scale and all of the Guardian armor was plate.

sirnamed

It could be later, yeah, or could be that we've only played beta without even access to the GWF build. We don't know what gear it has.

godofthorns

I also got a lot of GWF gear that had Life Steal (also, the gear had the word "Restoration" somewhere in the title). Just speculation, but I expect that the GWF, if properly geared, will be able to take on mobs adequately due to the life steal enhancement. As long as the GWF can continuously pour on the damage, then they will be gaining (hopefully) enough health with that type of gear on.

I hope the GWF is in the next March Beta Weekend. I kept all the GWF life steal gear/armor/weapons I found ... I hope to test this theory March 8th.

silknight

I hope that I can use all the GWF loot I had gotten as well, some reason lots of blue GWF drops, he'll be much better geared than my Trickster.

vagrantzero

drakne007 wrote: »

im not sure either, alot of people who know 4e say hes a tank, but im not sure if there gonna do 2 tanks in the game?

Pretty sure there's a tank tree in there. Having only 1 tank class in an MMO is all around badness as LOTRO can attest to (at launch guardian's were the only real tanks, now they've got 4 dedicated tanks).

nik80

godofthorns wrote: »

I hope the GWF is in the next March Beta Weekend. I kept all the GWF life steal gear/armor/weapons I found ... I hope to test this theory March 8th.

Do the characters you rolled in the fires beta weekend carry over to the ones in march? I'm not sure if your comment implies that you know that they will or if you're just hoping that they do. LMK! thanks.

silknight

More hoping than anything.

braxzana

I confess I normally prefer two small daggers to one giant sword, but I'm willing to try ALL the classes and some of the animations in the trailer make the GWF look interesting. It all boils down to how fast and smooth it FEELS. In Champions Online they have a Heavy Weapon powerset that FEELS like a "heavy" weapon in that all the swings are slow and ponderous (certainly in comparison to twin blades).

If the GWF feels too slow to swing (which may mean being locked in an attack animation and unable to move) then I may have to strike it from my roster (character slots ARE limited).

What with the ability to throw your sword then leap after it and spin around like a dervish, though, I'm hoping it'll be nice and action-packed.

volcxxx

GWF is pure dps. No tank at all. There is only one tank - Guardian Fighter.
100%

gatorflash

I dont completely agree volcxxx. Im sure in a pinch, the GWF could off tank. Say in a group if the guardian goes down... He certainly would be a better choice than a cleric in my opinion, who would probably need to focus on healing the GWF. He is a "fighter" after all and can certainly take a lot more punishment than the rogue, who is "pure dps" by your standards.

vagrantzero

volcxxx wrote: »

GWF is pure dps. No tank at all. There is only one tank - Guardian Fighter.
100%

No I'm pretty sure I saw screenshots floating around showing a tanky tree for the GWF.

Edit: Found a link that shows at a bare minimum the GWF can spec to be an off-tank.

http://www.tentonhammer.com/neverwinter/news/cryptic-profiles-neverwinters-great-weapon-fighter

Definitely not just pure dps. So you were 100% wrong.

Now if GWF can be main tanks remains to be seen. I really hope so. I want to be a party main-tank GWF.

Edit2: For those of you that are too lazy to click or can't for some reason here's the meat of it:

You believe that shields are cumbersome and deter your ability to fight. Your innate instinct allows you to drive your weapon deep into the hearts of your foes with deadly precision and timing. In the heat of battle, your versatile combat ability allows you to perform different roles within the party. While your defender absorbs the brunt of the damage, you fight to protect your other party members from ambush. And if your defender is down, you are the first to absorb incoming damage keeping your allies from harm.

cerek2

The Great Weapon Fighter falls into the same Defender role category along with the Guardian Fighter. This is why we are in the same forums. The GWF, in basic terms, is a secondary tank to the Guardian, because he's not able to tank the same as the Guardian due to the lack of the shield. Instead, the GWF obviously focuses more on offense by having the Great Weapon. However, the GWF has abilities to knock opponents away, slow them down and even has an ability to significantly buff his defensive capabilities based on the number of opponents nearby and the strength of those opponents.

What I did was I simply reviewed what Cryptic wrote about the GWF in their introduction video and write-up. I read about the GWF in the DND 4e wiki sites. I then went and used the pause button to review the GWF class abilities as seen in the German gameplay video. What I found is a pretty good balance of offensive abilities and defensive abilities.

Basically, the GWF is meant to fight and tank. He's just not the best at either due to not having the fire power / range of the Wizard or the shield of the Guardian Fighter. But that's ok, it what makes the class pretty unique.

zavon01

Yeah, they said in that preview that the GWF job was to be both a bit of a striker and an emergency defender. In fact, the special mechanic is supposed to be something along the lines of "sprinting" to endangered party members and off-tanking.

That may make a lot of folks upset, who want to be a pure DPS-- but personally, I love the idea of being a situational awareness type class.

firesnakearies

sirnamed wrote: »

Both get plate. They are the same class albeit different weapon focus and feat/skill selection. Heavy armour proficieny is a foundational thing to fighters. It will be thoroughly disappointing if Cryptic mess with that.

In 4th edition, Fighters start with proficiency in Scale. Only Paladins start with Plate proficiency. Fighters who want to wear plate have to spend a feat on it.

Cryptic didn't mess with that, Wizards of the Coast did.


Edit: I'm talking about the first 4E Player's Handbook. Later on, in Essentials a different kind of Fighter, the Knight build, was released that does start with Plate proficiency.

arythor

Since Great Weapon Fighters are still considered defenders due to being a Fighter, they should be able to tank to some degree; naturally, it is expected their damage absorption and mitigation will be less than that of a Guardian Fighter, but their increased offense will balance that.

I suspect that, like in many MMORPGs, a Guardian Fighter tanking will make a dungeon easier to complete, particularly in the first few attempts, but a Great Weapon Fighter tanking will make it faster to complete, particularly once the dungeon is mastered. It all has to do with the best tank giving a party the most time and margin of error to deal with encounters, which is great when you are figuring things out. Once figured out, you just want to blitz through, and if you can do it with a tank that can put enemies down faster, that is the more optimal choice.

Anyway, while the second beta weekend will not feature Great Weapon Fighters, I hope (and suspect) that the third one will, and all of the speculation can be laid to rest then.