Thanks for all the comments and communication, however none was very enlightening, I understand we will need to wait some more. However.... The concept of a tank in any rpg avatar vs dungeon/monsters/mobs/groups Simply MUST have a "Tank"
I know people are saying "It's different!" And yes I get that, but even with Tera being Soooooo different Hard dungeons and encounters STILL need a TANK. A Tank is a focal point for a boss/mob/groups of enemies to FOCUS their damage on, You CANNOT NOT have a tank, even in FPS's now where there is more and more different skills sets and abilities being added in pve fights a "tank" becomes needed or the game is a just a zoo of everything going everywhere.
healer/tank/damage/control has ALWAYS been a core part of group vs challenge mechanics. And you will not be able to get away from that, Even in DayZ with it's twist on gaming you accomplish more when you have a "Tank"
A Tank is a character that draws and mitigates the enemies damage output, IF there is NO Damage that threatens "ANY" single player without their or the groups ability to passively deal with it, then the game becomes like low level Tera, where nothing other then not refreshing to full hp before the next pull will threaten you. The concept of a tank is something you cannot do without in this style of game. Dragon Age gave a new spin on "tanking" but it still came down to, the control and attention of the current dangers damage output and controlling it.
MY Concern is that this game will do what many others have done and limit the "tanking" to one class or specialization. If the only "TANK" that can handle the end game challenges are that of one class with one specialization I will be disappointed and I believe we will see a shortage of tank like in most mmos.
Dragon nest is the only mmo where there really is no tank, But there sure archers and mages that specialize in getting the attention of the monsters and bosses and kiting them. However in this game DUE to this ability it is also possible for those classes to solo entire raids, because kiting is the "tank" function.
I hope I have laid out my concerns better.
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amardarialMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited July 2012
Unless they stray from 4th a LOT, and by a lot, I mean they don't follow it at all.
The idea of Tank/Healer/DPS will not exist in any form anyone will be familiar with.
In fact in PnP 4th, I've played campaigns where we were all Strikers or all Leaders or all Controllers with no Defenders in sight, and we did just fine, even with the DM tossing stuff above level at us.
I imagine Neverwinter will play much the same, given how EVERY class has a self heal, EVERY class has Defense abilities and EVERY class has Crowd Control abilities, requiring a certain class is no longer needed, as every class has Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary roles, allowing a group of all Rogue or all Wizards to still be able to play through all content with minimal trouble.
In fact I imagine a group of all one class to be able to take on just about anything given the power sets they would have access to in multiples.
All rogues would kill everything before it became a threat, using their avoid damage abilities in Oh <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> moments.
All Wizards would just Mass Crowd Control the Dungeon while simultaneously doing AoE damage and AoE DoTs to everything.
All Clerics would basically never leave a room damaged, and could more or less ignore all but bosses which would just get dailies unloaded on them, cause they wouldn't need them on the trash mobs.
All Fighters would just set up circles of "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't" and slaughter everything that dares get within melee range, charging anything that tries to stay outside of melee after.
In fact the typical Tank/Heal/DPS (Adding additional DPS for each extra party member) probably won't work as well as you'd expect it to, as 4th simply doesn't play that way at all, using unorthodox teams will get you the most bang for your buck come dungeons and open world gamplay, same goes for playing your character in ways that may not seem ideal.
I'm not sure I'm liking the sound of that last post, having a group of all one class what-ever they may be? That doesn't sound very much like role-playing, and to be able to go through all the content that way.... Hmmmmmmm....
Well I suppose if all you want to do is enter a fantasy setting and Hack'N Slash, Damm!!! I don't want to try a new game and be able to steam roll the content with a full group of " Tanks "
I do like to solo play most of the time but if I choose to play somethings that way, I may get to a point that I need to seek out a certain class, ( Promoting group Play ).
So if I didn't mis-understand the last post there will be really no need for me to mingle and get to know other classes if a group of all the same class can finish the whole game that way.
The only real reason anyone would do it would be for the true roll players out there, because again if I read and understood it the only real reason you would play a traditional group would be for nostalgia.
Please...Please... tell me it isn't so.... that you can play this game as a
So if I didn't mis-understand the last post there will be really no need for me to mingle and get to know other classes if a group of all the same class can finish the whole game that way.
...
The game is active combat and not pnp. So all same classes does not mean hack and slash or same gamestyle. Think of it, for example, counter strike game. Everybody has same access to all the weapons (here roles) but some people excel in some kind, other in other kind.
You will still need someone to lead, someone to control, someone to defend and someone to strike. However, you are not locked. These roles are tied to playstyle. Though a certain class can do one thing more easily, doesn't means others cant.
So think of having different roles rather than different classes.
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amardarialMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited August 2012
I'm so going to play a Wizard or Rogue tank just to mess with peoples heads...Probably Wizard though, always been a spell caster at heart.
Wizard Tank FTW!! Who needs fighters!
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aavariusMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
I hope all those wishes come true. It'd certainly make Yours Truly happy if I could wizard tank.
I don't know where but I heard in some interview that wizards in this game are based on 4e which means they can take a lot more punishment even at lower levels before dying. So that would mean wizards are tankish... or can be made tankish?
p.s. Now, where did I hear it? Probably when I was mazed?
I don't know where but I heard in some interview that wizards in this game are based on 4e which means they can take a lot more punishment even at lower levels before dying. So that would mean wizards are tankish... or can be made tankish?
p.s. Now, where did I hear it? Probably when I was mazed?
Tanks need to remain in the defender role classes. No Wizard tank, no Cleric tank, no Rogue tank, no Striker role that can tank. If a rogue or wizard can tank then you will have balance issues. If there are to be more tanks then they need to add the Paladin or the Warden or the Swordmage. And this should only matter in the big fights like in the dungeon delving bosses as I can only see how balance issues will arise. Tanks tend to get the most harsh treatment in this aspect. WotLK is a perfect example.
And in the past numerous games had only one sort of tank. *** it was the guardian, vanilla WoW the warrior, even in DDO it was the fighter for a time. One tank is fine for a starting point but if they expand upon it.
Think it is referring to the HP of the wizard. In 4e HP are a lot more based lined. In 3.5e you had the 1d4/6/8/10/12 depending on class but in 4e you had HP gain of 4, 5, or 6 so HP pools are a lot closer together.
Comments
I know people are saying "It's different!" And yes I get that, but even with Tera being Soooooo different Hard dungeons and encounters STILL need a TANK. A Tank is a focal point for a boss/mob/groups of enemies to FOCUS their damage on, You CANNOT NOT have a tank, even in FPS's now where there is more and more different skills sets and abilities being added in pve fights a "tank" becomes needed or the game is a just a zoo of everything going everywhere.
healer/tank/damage/control has ALWAYS been a core part of group vs challenge mechanics. And you will not be able to get away from that, Even in DayZ with it's twist on gaming you accomplish more when you have a "Tank"
A Tank is a character that draws and mitigates the enemies damage output, IF there is NO Damage that threatens "ANY" single player without their or the groups ability to passively deal with it, then the game becomes like low level Tera, where nothing other then not refreshing to full hp before the next pull will threaten you. The concept of a tank is something you cannot do without in this style of game. Dragon Age gave a new spin on "tanking" but it still came down to, the control and attention of the current dangers damage output and controlling it.
MY Concern is that this game will do what many others have done and limit the "tanking" to one class or specialization. If the only "TANK" that can handle the end game challenges are that of one class with one specialization I will be disappointed and I believe we will see a shortage of tank like in most mmos.
Dragon nest is the only mmo where there really is no tank, But there sure archers and mages that specialize in getting the attention of the monsters and bosses and kiting them. However in this game DUE to this ability it is also possible for those classes to solo entire raids, because kiting is the "tank" function.
I hope I have laid out my concerns better.
The idea of Tank/Healer/DPS will not exist in any form anyone will be familiar with.
In fact in PnP 4th, I've played campaigns where we were all Strikers or all Leaders or all Controllers with no Defenders in sight, and we did just fine, even with the DM tossing stuff above level at us.
I imagine Neverwinter will play much the same, given how EVERY class has a self heal, EVERY class has Defense abilities and EVERY class has Crowd Control abilities, requiring a certain class is no longer needed, as every class has Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary roles, allowing a group of all Rogue or all Wizards to still be able to play through all content with minimal trouble.
In fact I imagine a group of all one class to be able to take on just about anything given the power sets they would have access to in multiples.
All rogues would kill everything before it became a threat, using their avoid damage abilities in Oh <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> moments.
All Wizards would just Mass Crowd Control the Dungeon while simultaneously doing AoE damage and AoE DoTs to everything.
All Clerics would basically never leave a room damaged, and could more or less ignore all but bosses which would just get dailies unloaded on them, cause they wouldn't need them on the trash mobs.
All Fighters would just set up circles of "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't" and slaughter everything that dares get within melee range, charging anything that tries to stay outside of melee after.
In fact the typical Tank/Heal/DPS (Adding additional DPS for each extra party member) probably won't work as well as you'd expect it to, as 4th simply doesn't play that way at all, using unorthodox teams will get you the most bang for your buck come dungeons and open world gamplay, same goes for playing your character in ways that may not seem ideal.
I'm not sure I'm liking the sound of that last post, having a group of all one class what-ever they may be? That doesn't sound very much like role-playing, and to be able to go through all the content that way.... Hmmmmmmm....
Well I suppose if all you want to do is enter a fantasy setting and Hack'N Slash, Damm!!! I don't want to try a new game and be able to steam roll the content with a full group of " Tanks "
I do like to solo play most of the time but if I choose to play somethings that way, I may get to a point that I need to seek out a certain class, ( Promoting group Play ).
So if I didn't mis-understand the last post there will be really no need for me to mingle and get to know other classes if a group of all the same class can finish the whole game that way.
The only real reason anyone would do it would be for the true roll players out there, because again if I read and understood it the only real reason you would play a traditional group would be for nostalgia.
Please...Please... tell me it isn't so.... that you can play this game as a
"One Man Marching Band "
Cheers! Galahad
" May The Wind be Always At Your Back "
The game is active combat and not pnp. So all same classes does not mean hack and slash or same gamestyle. Think of it, for example, counter strike game. Everybody has same access to all the weapons (here roles) but some people excel in some kind, other in other kind.
You will still need someone to lead, someone to control, someone to defend and someone to strike. However, you are not locked. These roles are tied to playstyle. Though a certain class can do one thing more easily, doesn't means others cant.
So think of having different roles rather than different classes.
Wizard Tank FTW!! Who needs fighters!
I hope all those wishes come true. It'd certainly make Yours Truly happy if I could wizard tank.
If we get all the core wizard powers, we should be able to, won't be even remotely what anyone would think, but should be possible.
Would be more a CC Tank, keeping mobs at bay, while you focus one at a time, type deal.
I don't know where but I heard in some interview that wizards in this game are based on 4e which means they can take a lot more punishment even at lower levels before dying. So that would mean wizards are tankish... or can be made tankish?
p.s. Now, where did I hear it? Probably when I was mazed?
What in the hells ?
And in the past numerous games had only one sort of tank. *** it was the guardian, vanilla WoW the warrior, even in DDO it was the fighter for a time. One tank is fine for a starting point but if they expand upon it.
Think it is referring to the HP of the wizard. In 4e HP are a lot more based lined. In 3.5e you had the 1d4/6/8/10/12 depending on class but in 4e you had HP gain of 4, 5, or 6 so HP pools are a lot closer together.