imy overall ideas and favorite suggestions compiled
- "steal" a small amount of gold or common item that will be awarded to thief but not taken from victim
-can only target each player (or npc?)once per day
-if they get caught town/city guard spawns and the character must choose fight or flight either way a bounty will be accrued (a more substantial one if you kill any guards)
-The player must then pay off his/her bounty
-if player does not pay off bounty town/city guards will randomly spawn to catch thief (more frequent for higher the bounty)
-if bounty reaches a certain level player becomes flagged for pvp and the player(s) that successfully neutralize thief then split a fraction of the bounty
(this last part i really like because it creates player events and will let some people play the bounty hunter role)
This to me seems balanced, fair, non-griefing and i belive it adds heavily to the RP i mean come on who dosent want to see a filthy thief get whomped by everyone in the area? (except the terrible thief of course
It's a touchy subject, people don't want their hard-earned items to be stolen by someone who hasn't put the time into getting them and all they've done is levelled a rogue.
There would need to be some complicated balancing. I think it is also very susceptible to farming stolen items and selling/auctioning them, so to prevent that a system where stolen items can't be traded, and only sold to fences and fractional values. Thieves steal primarily to make money, so it would only make sense that what they stole could only be used by that specific char or sold to a fence who would not resell the item.
Could also use a bounty system where a thieves notoriety goes up the more they steal so players have a reason to hunt them down and claim the bounty on their heads.
It is possible to make it work, but a lot of people wouldn't be happy about it :P
i hate those people that just jump into a forum for a postcount without reading the suggestions
Hmmm, like the Elder Scrolls maybe, only once an encounter NPC mob and SOMETIMES, gaining unique (but balanced compared to other items) items only from PPing. But no way they can gain anything else magic itemy (but all other items should be up for grabs and taken from the creature's total.)
Still could be exploited but also could make an interesting player-economy if items were not bind on acquisition and bind on equip or no bind.
I was also thinking of Elder scrolls when I read the proposition.
Three important ideas stand out :
1 - Stealing should not grieve the victim of theft. Or not too much (say a small percetage of total coins in pocket). The game should add stuff that wasn't in the pocket to the thief's loot, just to keep it interesting to him.
2 - One can be victim of theft only once a day. Originally the idea was you can only steal from the same victim once a day, but then just imagine thieves guilds filling the streets. Each thief stealing once from you. Well if there's 50 thieves logged in and in that same street, you're done for. So only one theft count a day for the victim.
3 - Stealing (well, getting caught stealing) should have consequences. PvP flagging, npc guard alert, bounty, and simply being able to kill the thief and get your coins back.
I'll add a 4th :
4 - Extra-alertness skill. If you know someone is about to steal from you, say you see them following you too close, you don't just sit there and let yourself get robbed. You should have a skill that makes the theft near impossible. This way, you only get pick-pocketed when you're not paying attention, as it should be. This extra-alertness skill would also tell the thief you know what he's trying to do, ans if he does it anyway, he will most certainly get caught.
i hate those people that just jump into a forum for a postcount without reading the suggestions
Really bothers you that much? I just don't like trawling through pages of forums, and by virtue of the fact I posted similar suggestions it is something that devs are likely to take more note of, god forbid there should be minor repetition. Why not add something constructive to the discussion instead being a jerk?
Originally Posted by werealchemist
imy overall ideas and favorite suggestions compiled
- "steal" a small amount of gold or common item that will be awarded to thief but not taken from victim
-can only target each player (or npc?)once per day
-if they get caught town/city guard spawns and the character must choose fight or flight either way a bounty will be accrued (a more substantial one if you kill any guards)
-The player must then pay off his/her bounty
-if player does not pay off bounty town/city guards will randomly spawn to catch thief (more frequent for higher the bounty)
-if bounty reaches a certain level player becomes flagged for pvp and the player(s) that successfully neutralize thief then split a fraction of the bounty
(this last part i really like because it creates player events and will let some people play the bounty hunter role)
This to me seems balanced, fair, non-griefing and i belive it adds heavily to the RP i mean come on who dosent want to see a filthy thief get whomped by everyone in the area? (except the terrible thief of course
Really bothers you that much? I just don't like trawling through pages of forums, and by virtue of the fact I posted similar suggestions it is something that devs are likely to take more note of, god forbid there should be minor repetition. Why not add something constructive to the discussion instead being a jerk?
I don't get the complaint of farming players for common items. I fail to see how this can be abused especially if they allow players to open up shops and sort of item factories. It could just be another option to fill a store with goods. Riskier method but still.
1) Rogues could be allowed to pick someone's pocket with a cooldown of, say, 2-3 minutes.
2) The pickpocket skill should have some kind of counter skill/stat on the victim's side (perception or something similar) that is invisible to the thief, so that they don't know how easy or hard it will be to pick that victim's pocket.
3) A succesful check will result in the rogue stealing a small amount of the victim's gold and a few random common items, like cheap potion materials and the like. No weapons and armour getting stolen, and certainly not anything expensive or rare.
4) A failed check will result in the thief getting caught by the victim. The thief will be forced to pay a fine to the person he tried to steal from, about 2-3 times the average amount of gold that he could have stolen (value of the previous mentioned common items not included). That of course means that the game shouldn't allow you to pickpocket someone without already having enough money in your pockets for a possible fine (shouldn't be too much anyway)
5)Perhaps a middle outcome could be included, somewhere between the 2 checks, where you use the skill, fail and get away empty handed before the victim can catch you.
6) In any case, once someone has attempted to pickpocked a person, regardless of the outcome, that person should have a "pickpocket-protected" status (visible only to other rogues, so that the victim itself won't instantly know that they've just been succesfully pickpocketed by that one rogue running the hell away from them XD) for the next 30min-1h
7) Getting caught pickpocketing should also have an impact reputation-wise, reducing your faction reputation if one exists and if it's against their principles and/or increasing your notoriety, which increases the fines you pay if caught.
That way, it won't be as simple as "farming" passers-by. Rogues will have to pick their targets carefully and if they are not skilled in pickpocketing, they'll just end up making everyone else rich - so noone will really complain either.
I don't get the complaint of farming players for common items. I fail to see how this can be abused especially if they allow players to open up shops and sort of item factories. It could just be another option to fill a store with goods. Riskier method but still.
Then keep it on PvP servers. You can keep your hands in each other's pants all day long.
i hate those people that just jump into a forum for a postcount without reading the suggestions
I wouldn't say "hate" but I would agree that it's annoying. You can tell when people don't bother to read the rest of the thread or are just posting for the sake of posting.
Here is a question since it has been sometime since I played the tabletop game. How was spot check handled? And is it in 4e? (my books haven't come in yet)
Make a Perception check to notice clues, detect secret
doors, spot imminent dangers, find traps, follow tracks,
listen for sounds behind a closed door, or locate hidden
objects.
This skill is used against another creature’s Stealth
check or against a DC set by the DM. In most situations,
the DM uses your passive Perception check result to determine
if you notice a clue or an imminent danger.
Perception: No action required—either you notice
something or you don’t. Your DM usually uses your passive
Perception check result. If you want to use the skill
actively, you need to take a minor action or spend 1
minute listening or searching, depending on the task.
✦ Opposed Check: Perception vs. Stealth when trying to
spot or hear a creature using Stealth. Your check might
be modified by distance or if you’re listening through a
door or a wall (see the table).
✦ DC: See the table for DCs when you’re trying to hear or
spot something, searching an area, or looking for tracks.
✦ Success: You spot or hear something.
✦ Failure: You can’t try again unless circumstances
change.
✦ Searching: When actively searching an area or looking
for something specific, assume you’re searching each
adjacent square. The DM might allow you to do this as a
standard action, but usually searching requires at least 1
minute.
Listen Perception DC
Battle 0
N ormal conversation 10
W hispers 20
Through a door +5
Through a wall +10
More than 10 squares away +2
Spot or Search Perception DC
Barely hidden 10
W ell hidden 25
More than 10 squares away +2
I wouldn't say "hate" but I would agree that it's annoying. You can tell when people don't bother to read the rest of the thread or are just posting for the sake of posting.
Thank you werealchemist. So there really isn't a reason for a separate skill to detect a pickpocket like some have mentioned. Also I still say the best way to deter a pickpocket is to place a trap or curse item (can't be determined if it is curse till after it is taken) in your bag. Its effects will go off and immediately alert the player that somebody was in your pants/bags etc.
Also my dupe idea, if done to say more powerful equipment (still not talking about epic weapons here just weps that have some bonus's and maybe a magic attribute of some sort), and have the implemented random negative attribute for uncommon looted dupes. One could also add the ability I believe UO has in its wrestling skills. The ability to disarm. The disarm ability from what I have heard causes the item to be put in your inventory or sheathed. Then it can be looted. When I heard this could be done it made me giggle with delight.
Of course then you would have to make a thief/wrestler which might not necessarily be the most useful build for most adventures. But meh.
Re-read my Elder Scrolls Piclpocket post and want to be clear I was suggesting it for NPC's only. I added the NPC to said post. For PC's just too grief-exploited and all those safeguards suggested are too developmentally laborious for a version update.
Poking fun at your comment because it comes up every time an idea is brought up that has the possibility that it can be griefed. Which in and of itself, because there is likely not a feature that exists in an MMO that doesn't have that possibility, seems moot.
Also as far as developmentally laborious. How so?
There are likely items with rarity levels already since it will be necessary with the game engine handing out loot in dungeons instead of players being able to assign loot (or XP for that matter).
A dupe system wouldn't be that hard. It is literally a copy paste item on success situation. The item to be duped being pulled randomly from the inventory unless another skill is used (that other skill to search for a specific item being an optional ability not crucial to this system). So basic pickpocket would be a bit more of a lottery system.
Then flag all rare loot non lootable so it is taken out of the lottery.
Then a random negative modifier/curse for during the creation of a duped uncommon item.
Then the dupe is flagged stolen. Not that hard really.
Sure you would need to test the negative modifiers but aside from that the coding wouldn't be that difficult especially compared to MANY of the other features people have mentioned wanting. :cool:
Poking fun at your comment because it comes up every time an idea is brought up that has the possibility that it can be griefed. Which in and of itself, because there is likely not a feature that exists in an MMO that doesn't have that possibility, seems moot.
Also as far as developmentally laborious. How so? There are likely items with rarity levels already since it will be necessary with the game engine handing out loot in dungeons instead of players being able to assign loot (or XP for that matter). A dupe system wouldn't be that hard. It is literally a copy paste item on success situation. The item to be duped being pulled randomly from the inventory unless another skill is used (that other skill to search for a specific item being an optional ability not crucial to this system). So basic pickpocket would be a bit more of a lottery system. Then flag all rare loot non lootable so it is taken out of the lottery. Then a random negative modifier/curse for during the creation of a duped uncommon item. Then the dupe is flagged stolen. Not that hard really.
Sure you would need to test the negative modifiers but aside from that the coding wouldn't be that difficult especially compared to MANY of the other features people have mentioned wanting. :cool::p
And many said features people want are also likely too difficult for the next release and may come out perhaps a year later from release, if ever.
Yes, I recognized your irony, but made you use your words in a descriptive and constructive manner.
I ask the one simple question that UO and open world-PvP taught me:
What about when players do not want to participate in pickpocketing as victims?
Don't give me it's part of the game or player maturity. The crybabies will scream and shout so much as the easy-mode of game-play has conditioned them, that it either would be discontinued or a bunch of people would over-react and leave.
Now, if your said development could work by players flagging pickpocketing options for other players (and boo-freaking-hoo if they do and confirm it and cry to the GM they got robbed,) maybe (if the rules are straightforward enough) it could be used.
But unless they implement some option for everybody to learn thievery (a skill in 4e only trained by certain classes or requiring a feat/MC feat) it's literally unfair who can and who can't rob others.
But unless they implement some option for everybody to learn thievery (a skill in 4e only trained by certain classes or requiring a feat/MC feat) it's literally unfair who can and who can't rob others.
Thus why I supported NPC flagging only.
Wait what? Don't ALL classes have skills built specifically for them? If I am a fighter I don't cry that I can't cast wizard spells or priest spells. That is the point of a class system. They have strengths and weaknesses. Alternative methods to obtain schwag was always one of the thiefs strengths. Your point makes no sense to me.
What about when players do not want to participate in pickpocketing as victims?
Dupes solve that. You are no longer losing anything. Does UO use a dupe system or is if flat out theft as apposed to a system to mimic theft without actually being theft like I am proposing?
Touching on the Flagging aspect, TruthSeeker mentioned.
It could be implemented the same way PvP flagging on non-PvP servers work. You flagg yourself as a PickPocketer. You can now PP other flagged players who also can PP you.
On PvP servers, if you have the skill, everyone, including yourself, is a potential victim.
"Hey watch it pal... that wasn't my gold sack you were grabbing!" :eek:
Wait what? Don't ALL classes have skills built specifically for them? If I am a fighter I don't cry that I can't cast wizard spells or priest spells. That is the point of a class system. They have strengths and weaknesses. Alternative methods to obtain schwag was always one of the thiefs strengths. Your point makes no sense to me.
Dupes solve that. You are no longer losing anything.
So, we're just walking around having stuff stolen or having to have duplicate items? Now who's not making sense? Most MMO's had guards that always got you killed if you did any aggression. Are you suggesting we now have to implemnent guards doing that for stealing? Should the fighters get Op attacks for this when thieves try and sneak/shift away? Are we then implemting a backdoor PvP?
And again, players will beaoch and moan that they're stolen from and they can't get their stuff back or they can't steal as well. Normally, I'd simply suggest they train a feat for thievery, but even that option is not known if it's available in the game or we're locked into a class tree option which may not give you feats or multiclassing options.
So unless we start having players who don't get stolen from or can steal/be stolen from like PvP triggerable flagging, and they have non-rogue-class options to steal, there will be a bunch of crying about fairness, and the whole system goes away or is nerfed for "balance" which I have yet ever to see end well.
Until thievery is trainable by a feat option outside rogue, and the vast majority of people agree to this and scream louder than the whiners, it won't realisticly work outside of NPC.
Finally, not all classes in the core PH are necessarily available in-game, thus the class balance you mentioned is not there necessarily.
Edit: XiliX Ninjaed me while I was replying. Thus why my flagging seemed to "copy" his suggestion.
So, we're just walking around having stuff stolen or having to have duplicate items? Now who's not making sense?
Sigh.
Say I am playing as thief. I pickpocket on you. When it is successful I don't get THAT EXACT ITEM. I get a duplicate. Nothing is taken out of your inventory. The dupe may have a negative effect on it so that stealing will never create as good an item as what you can get in crafting or in regular looting. BUT it allows thieves to farm useful items. OR get items that they can then sell below market value to vendors (the negative modifier reduces the value of the item). I don't know where the confusion is coming from here.
Most MMO's had guards that always got you killed if you did any aggression. Are you suggesting we now have to implemnent guards doing that for stealing?
YES! EGADS YES! We literally covered this in this thread already. lol
Should the fighters get Op attacks for this when thieves try and sneak/shift away? Are we then implemting a backdoor PvP?
If the player wished to do so? I guess. Or they could let the guards handle it which they will anyhow. The guards aggression would have a cooldown. Some off the cuff ideas were mentioned here and here.
I have literally been throwing out ideas for this the entire thread that go hand in hand to one degree or another. I guess I need to write a small essay just for clarification.
Touching on the Flagging aspect, TruthSeeker mentioned.
It could be implemented the same way PvP flagging on non-PvP servers work. You flagg yourself as a PickPocketer. You can now PP other flagged players who also can PP you.
On PvP servers, if you have the skill, everyone, including yourself, is a potential victim.
"Hey watch it pal... that wasn't my gold sack you were grabbing!" :eek:
I suppose that could work.
I would also like to point out that there are level restrictions on items which can be seen in this video. So that would also help balance the system I propose.
I wouldn't say "hate" but I would agree that it's annoying. You can tell when people don't bother to read the rest of the thread or are just posting for the sake of posting.
...
Say I am playing as thief. I pickpocket on you. When it is successful I don't get THAT EXACT ITEM. I get a duplicate....
...
Although it is a good idea to balance and reduce grieving, I have to agree with truthseeker that it does not really makes sense; I mean how do you justify this weapon cloning. It should more be the area of expertise of an artificer than a thief.
And I think many role-players would agree with me when I say it will also kill immersion.
Apart from problems with willing targets who offer their pockets to let you duplicate items. So I still stand by my statement that item theft would be very tough to implement.
EDIT: And please don't take arguments and discussions to personal level. I don't think that is nice - to make personal comments. Rather look at post or idea without any prejudice to where it comes from. Afterall we all live in civilized world with free speech, right?
*smile* Now shake hands and continue to argue.
Originally Posted by Vangald
...
Say I am playing as thief. I pickpocket on you. When it is successful I don't get THAT EXACT ITEM. I get a duplicate....
Although it is a good idea to balance and reduce grieving, I have to agree with truthseeker that it does not really makes sense; I mean how do you justify this weapon cloning. It should more be the area of expertise of an artificer than a thief.
And I think many role-players would agree with me when I say it will also kill immersion.
Apart from problems with willing targets who offer their pockets to let you duplicate items. So I still stand by my statement that item theft would be very tough to implement.
Oh, the other way. Then this becomes a way that others get items without earning it and is exploited by others who pair up[ as "robber" and "victim" Friend 1 and 2 save a lot of questing time and BOOM, twink problem re-emerges, whiners start, etc.
Coming from the one who does it the most...now that's irony.:rolleyes:
As I'm typing this you have 11 of the "Last Post"s all in a row. Is that some kind of record?:cool:
Yeah, nevr be afraid to poke a jab at yourself :)But no, others beat me by much more. I just sit and read and update the forum all at once often on night owl hours. I'm sure this will all be gone in a few hours and welcome that, as that means many people are discussing things.
Coming from the one who does it the most...now that's irony.:rolleyes:
As I'm typing this you have 11 of the "Last Post"s all in a row. Is that some kind of record?:cool:
People generally don't just look at 1 post then reply once. They look at many and reply to the ones they want to take part in.
And please don't take arguments and discussions to personal level. I don't think that is nice - to make personal comments. Rather look at post or idea without any prejudice to where it comes from. Afterall we all live in civilized world with free speech, right?
*smile* Now shake hands and continue to argue.
Not sure if that is directed at me to any degree (though I am sure it is a general PSA), but I was merely getting aggravated at the circular direction the conversation was taking as points were continually brought up that were covered previously throughout the thread. Also the part I capped was to emphasize the part that needed clarifying the most.
And I think many role-players would agree with me when I say it will also kill immersion.
I fail to see how that breaks immersion any more than other anti griefing methods. In fact I would say not having a thief capable of thievery would be a bigger immersion breaker.
Oh, the other way. Then this becomes a way that others get items without earning it and is exploited by others who pair up[ as "robber" and "victim" Friend 1 and 2 save a lot of questing time and BOOM, twink problem re-emerges, whiners start, etc.
There was also the rob a player once a day thing mentioned earlier. The random jackpot method for theft that I mentioned. Items having level requirements (which is confirmed in the video link I posted above which is also in the what we know thread). Guards. Not saying that it couldn't happen but those alone would make it difficult especially since you are more likely to steal a candle than you are an item that is OP for your current level etc.
my overall ideas and favorite suggestions compiled and updated
-can only target each user (perhaps determined by account or ip, most likley ip as using accounts in a free game may cause people to make mule accounts to exploit this) or npc once per day whether the attempt is successful or not
-perception check against the thief to see if the attempt was successful
- if successful thief will "steal" a small amount of gold or common item that will be awarded to thief but not taken from victim
-when successful thief may receive a minute amout of exp as a small bonus
-if they get caught town/city guard spawns and the character must choose fight or flight either way a bounty will be accrued (a more substantial one if you kill any guards)
-The player must then pay off his/her bounty
-if player does not pay off bounty town/city guards will randomly spawn to catch thief (more frequent for higher the bounty)
-if bounty reaches a certain level player becomes flagged for pvp and the player(s) that successfully neutralize thief then split a fraction of the bounty
(this last part i really like because it creates player events and will let some people play the bounty hunter role)
This to me seems balanced, fair, non-griefing and i belive it adds heavily to the RP i mean come on who dosent want to see a filthy thief get whomped by everyone in the area? (except the terrible thief of course)
If ANYONE can see anything wrong with this then let me know i would love to see someone dispute that this is the best way to deal with pickpocketing you are likely a whiner
my overall ideas and favorite suggestions compiled and updated
-can only target each user (perhaps determined by account or ip, most likley ip as using accounts in a free game may cause people to make mule accounts to exploit this) or npc once per day whether the attempt is successful or not
-perception check against the thief to see if the attempt was successful
- if successful thief will "steal" a small amount of gold or common item that will be awarded to thief but not taken from victim
-when successful thief may receive a minute amout of exp as a small bonus
-if they get caught town/city guard spawns and the character must choose fight or flight either way a bounty will be accrued (a more substantial one if you kill any guards)
-The player must then pay off his/her bounty
-if player does not pay off bounty town/city guards will randomly spawn to catch thief (more frequent for higher the bounty)
-if bounty reaches a certain level player becomes flagged for pvp and the player(s) that successfully neutralize thief then split a fraction of the bounty
(this last part i really like because it creates player events and will let some people play the bounty hunter role)
This to me seems balanced, fair, non-griefing and i belive it adds heavily to the RP i mean come on who dosent want to see a filthy thief get whomped by everyone in the area? (except the terrible thief of course)
If ANYONE can see anything wrong with this then let me know i would love to see someone dispute that this is the best way to deal with pickpocketing you are likely a whiner
Stepped back and re-looked at this as a whole and these rules suggestions and the development flags needed for this and it does appear as doable as any other MMO PvP like thing. I then suggest one additional requirement both for non-exploit and grief reasons:
A PC target of pickpocketing can only be targeted once per day. An NPC can be targeted as many times as possible, but can only be targeted by an individual character once per day. (Assuming this resets once per day of course.)
Comments
i hate those people that just jump into a forum for a postcount without reading the suggestions
Still could be exploited but also could make an interesting player-economy if items were not bind on acquisition and bind on equip or no bind.
Three important ideas stand out :
1 - Stealing should not grieve the victim of theft. Or not too much (say a small percetage of total coins in pocket). The game should add stuff that wasn't in the pocket to the thief's loot, just to keep it interesting to him.
2 - One can be victim of theft only once a day. Originally the idea was you can only steal from the same victim once a day, but then just imagine thieves guilds filling the streets. Each thief stealing once from you. Well if there's 50 thieves logged in and in that same street, you're done for. So only one theft count a day for the victim.
3 - Stealing (well, getting caught stealing) should have consequences. PvP flagging, npc guard alert, bounty, and simply being able to kill the thief and get your coins back.
I'll add a 4th :
4 - Extra-alertness skill. If you know someone is about to steal from you, say you see them following you too close, you don't just sit there and let yourself get robbed. You should have a skill that makes the theft near impossible. This way, you only get pick-pocketed when you're not paying attention, as it should be. This extra-alertness skill would also tell the thief you know what he's trying to do, ans if he does it anyway, he will most certainly get caught.
Really bothers you that much? I just don't like trawling through pages of forums, and by virtue of the fact I posted similar suggestions it is something that devs are likely to take more note of, god forbid there should be minor repetition. Why not add something constructive to the discussion instead being a jerk?
rofl see what i mean
pretty sure i did
1) Rogues could be allowed to pick someone's pocket with a cooldown of, say, 2-3 minutes.
2) The pickpocket skill should have some kind of counter skill/stat on the victim's side (perception or something similar) that is invisible to the thief, so that they don't know how easy or hard it will be to pick that victim's pocket.
3) A succesful check will result in the rogue stealing a small amount of the victim's gold and a few random common items, like cheap potion materials and the like. No weapons and armour getting stolen, and certainly not anything expensive or rare.
4) A failed check will result in the thief getting caught by the victim. The thief will be forced to pay a fine to the person he tried to steal from, about 2-3 times the average amount of gold that he could have stolen (value of the previous mentioned common items not included). That of course means that the game shouldn't allow you to pickpocket someone without already having enough money in your pockets for a possible fine (shouldn't be too much anyway)
5)Perhaps a middle outcome could be included, somewhere between the 2 checks, where you use the skill, fail and get away empty handed before the victim can catch you.
6) In any case, once someone has attempted to pickpocked a person, regardless of the outcome, that person should have a "pickpocket-protected" status (visible only to other rogues, so that the victim itself won't instantly know that they've just been succesfully pickpocketed by that one rogue running the hell away from them XD) for the next 30min-1h
7) Getting caught pickpocketing should also have an impact reputation-wise, reducing your faction reputation if one exists and if it's against their principles and/or increasing your notoriety, which increases the fines you pay if caught.
That way, it won't be as simple as "farming" passers-by. Rogues will have to pick their targets carefully and if they are not skilled in pickpocketing, they'll just end up making everyone else rich - so noone will really complain either.
Then keep it on PvP servers. You can keep your hands in each other's pants all day long.
Hawt.
I wouldn't say "hate" but I would agree that it's annoying. You can tell when people don't bother to read the rest of the thread or are just posting for the sake of posting.
doors, spot imminent dangers, find traps, follow tracks,
listen for sounds behind a closed door, or locate hidden
objects.
This skill is used against another creature’s Stealth
check or against a DC set by the DM. In most situations,
the DM uses your passive Perception check result to determine
if you notice a clue or an imminent danger.
Perception: No action required—either you notice
something or you don’t. Your DM usually uses your passive
Perception check result. If you want to use the skill
actively, you need to take a minor action or spend 1
minute listening or searching, depending on the task.
✦ Opposed Check: Perception vs. Stealth when trying to
spot or hear a creature using Stealth. Your check might
be modified by distance or if you’re listening through a
door or a wall (see the table).
✦ DC: See the table for DCs when you’re trying to hear or
spot something, searching an area, or looking for tracks.
✦ Success: You spot or hear something.
✦ Failure: You can’t try again unless circumstances
change.
✦ Searching: When actively searching an area or looking
for something specific, assume you’re searching each
adjacent square. The DM might allow you to do this as a
standard action, but usually searching requires at least 1
minute.
Listen Perception DC
Battle 0
N ormal conversation 10
W hispers 20
Through a door +5
Through a wall +10
More than 10 squares away +2
Spot or Search Perception DC
Barely hidden 10
W ell hidden 25
More than 10 squares away +2
all the simple stuff can be found here
First!
(Irony not serious)
Not sure I'm a fan of XP theft, given that's like stealing a piece of your mind/ capability/soul, which doesn't make much sense.
Theft of items and a gain of XP by the pickpocket for a successful roll? Heck yes.
Also my dupe idea, if done to say more powerful equipment (still not talking about epic weapons here just weps that have some bonus's and maybe a magic attribute of some sort), and have the implemented random negative attribute for uncommon looted dupes. One could also add the ability I believe UO has in its wrestling skills. The ability to disarm. The disarm ability from what I have heard causes the item to be put in your inventory or sheathed. Then it can be looted. When I heard this could be done it made me giggle with delight.
Of course then you would have to make a thief/wrestler which might not necessarily be the most useful build for most adventures. But meh.
Your post isn't making any sense. Could you please detail your feedback?
Also as far as developmentally laborious. How so?
There are likely items with rarity levels already since it will be necessary with the game engine handing out loot in dungeons instead of players being able to assign loot (or XP for that matter).
A dupe system wouldn't be that hard. It is literally a copy paste item on success situation. The item to be duped being pulled randomly from the inventory unless another skill is used (that other skill to search for a specific item being an optional ability not crucial to this system). So basic pickpocket would be a bit more of a lottery system.
Then flag all rare loot non lootable so it is taken out of the lottery.
Then a random negative modifier/curse for during the creation of a duped uncommon item.
Then the dupe is flagged stolen. Not that hard really.
Sure you would need to test the negative modifiers but aside from that the coding wouldn't be that difficult especially compared to MANY of the other features people have mentioned wanting. :cool:
And many said features people want are also likely too difficult for the next release and may come out perhaps a year later from release, if ever.
Yes, I recognized your irony, but made you use your words in a descriptive and constructive manner.
I ask the one simple question that UO and open world-PvP taught me:
What about when players do not want to participate in pickpocketing as victims?
Don't give me it's part of the game or player maturity. The crybabies will scream and shout so much as the easy-mode of game-play has conditioned them, that it either would be discontinued or a bunch of people would over-react and leave.
Now, if your said development could work by players flagging pickpocketing options for other players (and boo-freaking-hoo if they do and confirm it and cry to the GM they got robbed,) maybe (if the rules are straightforward enough) it could be used.
But unless they implement some option for everybody to learn thievery (a skill in 4e only trained by certain classes or requiring a feat/MC feat) it's literally unfair who can and who can't rob others.
Thus why I supported NPC flagging only.
Wait what? Don't ALL classes have skills built specifically for them? If I am a fighter I don't cry that I can't cast wizard spells or priest spells. That is the point of a class system. They have strengths and weaknesses. Alternative methods to obtain schwag was always one of the thiefs strengths. Your point makes no sense to me.
Dupes solve that. You are no longer losing anything. Does UO use a dupe system or is if flat out theft as apposed to a system to mimic theft without actually being theft like I am proposing?
It could be implemented the same way PvP flagging on non-PvP servers work. You flagg yourself as a PickPocketer. You can now PP other flagged players who also can PP you.
On PvP servers, if you have the skill, everyone, including yourself, is a potential victim.
"Hey watch it pal... that wasn't my gold sack you were grabbing!" :eek:
So, we're just walking around having stuff stolen or having to have duplicate items? Now who's not making sense? Most MMO's had guards that always got you killed if you did any aggression. Are you suggesting we now have to implemnent guards doing that for stealing? Should the fighters get Op attacks for this when thieves try and sneak/shift away? Are we then implemting a backdoor PvP?
And again, players will beaoch and moan that they're stolen from and they can't get their stuff back or they can't steal as well. Normally, I'd simply suggest they train a feat for thievery, but even that option is not known if it's available in the game or we're locked into a class tree option which may not give you feats or multiclassing options.
So unless we start having players who don't get stolen from or can steal/be stolen from like PvP triggerable flagging, and they have non-rogue-class options to steal, there will be a bunch of crying about fairness, and the whole system goes away or is nerfed for "balance" which I have yet ever to see end well.
Until thievery is trainable by a feat option outside rogue, and the vast majority of people agree to this and scream louder than the whiners, it won't realisticly work outside of NPC.
Finally, not all classes in the core PH are necessarily available in-game, thus the class balance you mentioned is not there necessarily.
Edit: XiliX Ninjaed me while I was replying. Thus why my flagging seemed to "copy" his suggestion.
Sigh.
Say I am playing as thief. I pickpocket on you. When it is successful I don't get THAT EXACT ITEM. I get a duplicate. Nothing is taken out of your inventory. The dupe may have a negative effect on it so that stealing will never create as good an item as what you can get in crafting or in regular looting. BUT it allows thieves to farm useful items. OR get items that they can then sell below market value to vendors (the negative modifier reduces the value of the item). I don't know where the confusion is coming from here.
YES! EGADS YES! We literally covered this in this thread already. lol
If the player wished to do so? I guess. Or they could let the guards handle it which they will anyhow. The guards aggression would have a cooldown. Some off the cuff ideas were mentioned here and here.
I have literally been throwing out ideas for this the entire thread that go hand in hand to one degree or another. I guess I need to write a small essay just for clarification.
I suppose that could work.
I would also like to point out that there are level restrictions on items which can be seen in this video. So that would also help balance the system I propose.
Coming from the one who does it the most...now that's irony.:rolleyes:
As I'm typing this you have 11 of the "Last Post"s all in a row. Is that some kind of record?:cool:
Although it is a good idea to balance and reduce grieving, I have to agree with truthseeker that it does not really makes sense; I mean how do you justify this weapon cloning. It should more be the area of expertise of an artificer than a thief.
And I think many role-players would agree with me when I say it will also kill immersion.
Apart from problems with willing targets who offer their pockets to let you duplicate items. So I still stand by my statement that item theft would be very tough to implement.
EDIT: And please don't take arguments and discussions to personal level. I don't think that is nice - to make personal comments. Rather look at post or idea without any prejudice to where it comes from. Afterall we all live in civilized world with free speech, right?
*smile* Now shake hands and continue to argue.
Oh, the other way. Then this becomes a way that others get items without earning it and is exploited by others who pair up[ as "robber" and "victim" Friend 1 and 2 save a lot of questing time and BOOM, twink problem re-emerges, whiners start, etc.
Yeah, nevr be afraid to poke a jab at yourself :)But no, others beat me by much more. I just sit and read and update the forum all at once often on night owl hours. I'm sure this will all be gone in a few hours and welcome that, as that means many people are discussing things.
People generally don't just look at 1 post then reply once. They look at many and reply to the ones they want to take part in.
Not sure if that is directed at me to any degree (though I am sure it is a general PSA), but I was merely getting aggravated at the circular direction the conversation was taking as points were continually brought up that were covered previously throughout the thread. Also the part I capped was to emphasize the part that needed clarifying the most.
I fail to see how that breaks immersion any more than other anti griefing methods. In fact I would say not having a thief capable of thievery would be a bigger immersion breaker.
There was also the rob a player once a day thing mentioned earlier. The random jackpot method for theft that I mentioned. Items having level requirements (which is confirmed in the video link I posted above which is also in the what we know thread). Guards. Not saying that it couldn't happen but those alone would make it difficult especially since you are more likely to steal a candle than you are an item that is OP for your current level etc.
-can only target each user (perhaps determined by account or ip, most likley ip as using accounts in a free game may cause people to make mule accounts to exploit this) or npc once per day whether the attempt is successful or not
-perception check against the thief to see if the attempt was successful
- if successful thief will "steal" a small amount of gold or common item that will be awarded to thief but not taken from victim
-when successful thief may receive a minute amout of exp as a small bonus
-if they get caught town/city guard spawns and the character must choose fight or flight either way a bounty will be accrued (a more substantial one if you kill any guards)
-The player must then pay off his/her bounty
-if player does not pay off bounty town/city guards will randomly spawn to catch thief (more frequent for higher the bounty)
-if bounty reaches a certain level player becomes flagged for pvp and the player(s) that successfully neutralize thief then split a fraction of the bounty
(this last part i really like because it creates player events and will let some people play the bounty hunter role)
This to me seems balanced, fair, non-griefing and i belive it adds heavily to the RP i mean come on who dosent want to see a filthy thief get whomped by everyone in the area? (except the terrible thief of course)
If ANYONE can see anything wrong with this then let me know i would love to see someone dispute that this is the best way to deal with pickpocketing you are likely a whiner
Stepped back and re-looked at this as a whole and these rules suggestions and the development flags needed for this and it does appear as doable as any other MMO PvP like thing. I then suggest one additional requirement both for non-exploit and grief reasons: