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Special Forms of Movement
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Do you guys think they will be present or that we will just be able to run and swim (or even just run)?
I'm especially curious about climbing. In pen-and-paper D&D you can attempt to climb any vertical surface you like and it gets a DC based on it's slope, how slippery it is, or if there's anything to latch onto. Do you guys think this will be incorporated into the game? To me, alternative movement has always been a pretty core part of the D&D experience.
With spiderclimb we could even attach to the ceilings. I know it's a silly thing, but the thought of it gets me excited. I can just imagine an Assassin (I know there's no Assassins yet, but given time I'm sure we'll get Heroes of Shadow content) latched onto the ceiling awaiting his prey
.
It'd be really cool if the foundry gave us tools detailed enough to even decide the DC for different surfaces in our adventures.
I also really like the way teleportation and burrowing are handled in Champions Online, although their Flight would only be suitable for Flight (hover) and not regular Flight.
Any thoughts on this?
I'm especially curious about climbing. In pen-and-paper D&D you can attempt to climb any vertical surface you like and it gets a DC based on it's slope, how slippery it is, or if there's anything to latch onto. Do you guys think this will be incorporated into the game? To me, alternative movement has always been a pretty core part of the D&D experience.
With spiderclimb we could even attach to the ceilings. I know it's a silly thing, but the thought of it gets me excited. I can just imagine an Assassin (I know there's no Assassins yet, but given time I'm sure we'll get Heroes of Shadow content) latched onto the ceiling awaiting his prey
.It'd be really cool if the foundry gave us tools detailed enough to even decide the DC for different surfaces in our adventures.
I also really like the way teleportation and burrowing are handled in Champions Online, although their Flight would only be suitable for Flight (hover) and not regular Flight.
Any thoughts on this?
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You may be able to mimic climbing with a skill check.
Isn't mimic-climbing the same as normal climbing? Even if you don't have a climb speed, if you climb by using Athletics you're not exactly mimic-climbing.
And that's why I'm so curious about it; it seems to me that it's the most unlikely to be present (alongside burrowing, but burrowing gets the benefit of being in CO).
(Addendum) For those who don't know, the rules for climbing in 4e are simple:
1. If you have a climb speed, you can move at that speed on any vertical surface.
2. If you have spiderclimb, you can use your climb speed to move on ceilings.
3. You can make an athletics check to climb walls, ladders, ropes, or anything you can latch onto. The DC is set based on the difficulty of the climb, and you can move up to half your walk speed.
Since you made no distinction between which you were asking about (animation vs. mimicked), I addressed both.
Well, the main issue is that I don't understand what you're trying to say. How do you climb using conversation trees? What about triggers?
If you can make an animation for a character to move across a horizontal surface, is there a reason you can't make an animation for a character to move across a vertical one?
It's not just animation. It's walkmeshes, pathing, AI, as well as a bunch of other parameters that impact animating vertically. Not to mention it's impact on combat.
It's not just as simple as throwing in an animation. It's a complete engine overhaul.
Will NWO support any of those? No idea, but the idea of a burrowing dwarf makes me smile.
I don't play STO so I don't know if you can jump, but I'm pretty sure that climbing will not be handled the PnP way as this is a computer game. If you can climb something, you just do.
If you want to know if you can climb something, ask if you can do it in STO:
If you can, you can, if you can't, you can't. IMO I'm really tired of games that have restrictions on movement...just let us run, jump, swim, fly, and climb around the world...it just makes it more fun.
I'm fairly certain I recall it being said that this game does have a z-axis.
As for climbing, I will take any bets that it definitely will not be animated in. I'm giving great odds. Just ask. Million to one.
I don't even recall a first person shooter game accomplishing this. Maybe a tomb raider game did it, but I bet any game that did implement it restricted it to very specific areas where they could control the animation, etc. Or ala Uncharted where its just jump point to point (which were highly obvious little blocks sticking out).
P.S., I'm not taking any bets from Cryptic, Atari, Wizards, Perfect World or their relatives.
I still haven't played Assassin's Creed. Its on my to-play list. I brought it from D2D but just haven't had time to get around to it.
Is he able to climb any elevated surface in the world or just smooth walls, etc.?
That'd be lame.
"If you can make an animation for a character to move across a horizontal surface, is there a reason you can't make an animation for a character to move across a vertical one?"
What I was trying to say is that it's not an impossibility. It's improbable, yes, but not by any means impossible-- if you can design horizontal movement, you can design vertical movement. I wasn't trying to suggest that all that is needed is an animation.
That's fine, but you did ask "is there a reason you can't make an animation for a character to move across a vertical one?" I simply provided some of those reasons.
Skip to the second game, the first is very boring.
Altair/Ezio/Desmond can climb any surface that has handholds, perfectly smooth walls cannot be climbed (though you can get a run-up on them and go a bit up them if they're not very tall, or wall-run and jump off the wall in a limited capacity)...later in AC2/brotherhood you gain the ability to do a vertical leap and catch onto a new handhold, extending your ability to climb certain walls.
Well, I think it's lame and a lazy solution.
The moment when you start coming up with reasons as to why something can't be done is the moment you'll start getting a crappy result.
There is no proper reason as to why something can't be done; that mentality is just dumb. You can have all the monetary assets and talent you like, but if you have no ambition you're not going to get anywhere-- whether that's in game-design or anything else.
I'm not trying to imply that Neverwinter will be an unambitious game if it doesn't have a climbing feature-- I'm just trying to make a point of what your current mindset is like.
And please, don't take insult to anything I've said. I'm being blunt and straightforward, but not malicious.
Hope that wasn't too rude, just trying out that direct approach.
You asked in your original post if we think we will get different movement types. You cite climbing as one you wish to see. I have neither disagreed with this being a bad idea, nor have I said it was impossible. I merely stated that it was doubtful we we would get climbing and cited the reasons why.
This is called "perspective" and is answering your question directly. It has nothing to do with my "current mindset." It has to do with answering your question. I am not "coming up with" reasons.
You are talking about a major overhaul to an established, working engine for what essentially equates to one relatively trival part of one skill in the 4E ruleset. These are not "reasons" that I am conjuring out of the blue. I am telling you about the current limitations of the engine and what it would take to address your request.
My apologies if this is not the answer you would like to hear. Maybe you should wait around for someone to cater to your demands and give you answers that make you happy. Unfortunately, it is highly unlikely that one of those people will be Cryptic, so you will ultimately be disappointed in the end anyhow.
No, it's fine. You're right. I forgot I had asked for opinions, silly as that may seem. I don't go on these forums often so I guess the time gap made me forget what I wrote at first.
:eek:
This is the internet man! Your not allowed to answer like that. Call his mother some nasty names or something. I'm so disappointed in you!
That was an accident with the cooking hearth it will grow back! :mad:
Fly, jump, run, swim, teleport - these will probably be there somehow, but burrow? It's one of the most curious modes of moving - not used in any MMO I know because it... well leaves holes after it :P
Don't worry. I have archived your idea of burrowing here along with reference - Roleplay, 2) movement. :-)
And thanks for all those links to old posts you post (before pw forum merge).
btw, on a second thought, I should put this lake idea too i think.
EDIT: BTW: burrowing is now a mode of transportation in CO(champions online). It is not really that curious, considering it also has many other modes like swinging etc.
I am pretty sure that there will be swimming, and that Rogues will probably have their own special stealth walk animation. I don't know if there will be any climbing animation, but I wouldn't count it out just yet.
now your gonna say well the monsters can climb too, which at this point said archer puts on a feather fall item and floats down all the while continually shooting his targets. When he finally reaches the ground the monsters have to climb down (maybe jump? unlikely due to AI) before able to target him, at which point the archer flies into the air(cause he's got some magic item or multiclass) and is once again unreachable.
Give the enemies ranged attacks then, fine but they'll likely be weaker then normal so we've now got a damage mitagation exploit.
My point is its easier for devolopers to simply not include climb/fly then attempt to constantly think of every way players could exploit these abilities.
In DDO there was one epic quest where you could skip 10-20 minutes and go straight to the boss fight simply by having max jump skill. They fixed this by adding invisible walls
I would rather have freedom to move anywhere in the game as compared to having fly/climb and a lot of invisible walls or no where to fly/climb cool as they may be
my opinion
About climb... well i dont rly seem any ussefull situation where climb can be implement in a non combat environment.