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A way for CRYPTIC to make money!!
Archived Post
Member Posts: 5,050,278 Bounty Hunter
I love NWN and would love to see CRYPTIC do the same with this game. I have a suggestion on how to do this -> make the NWN fan base happy by producing a game like NWN with the new technology and put money in the pockets of CRYPTIC and its investors:
On another forum (The CEP - for all those who know the NWN game) - someone said the following about the possible reason why this game may fail and not do so well for most of the fan base of NWN:
QUOTE:
"My guess is that they see no profit in it. It’s about $$$, not hardcore fan loyalty. The number of custom content creators is perhaps 1% of game users? I’m probably being very generous with that number. Why would they bother catering to such a small group, when they can release a product that most gamers that are interested in the genre will buy anyway? Indeed, added functionality to give that game longevity via robust custom content features is counterproductive from a monetary point of view. They don’t want people playing game X for 5+ years; they want those people to buy X2 and X3 over those same 5 years. People playing the same game for years generates no revenue, unless you are charged a monthly subscription for constant upgrades, and even then, a large segment of people have a strong aversion for that sort of gaming."
My REPLY/suggestion(s):
If they want to make money...they should make the best game...model it after the NWN game...and if $$ is what they want...then they should make it where people who are talented with making stuff for the community (the less than 1%) should be offered prize money for the content they make. They can sell "packages of content" to the community for a SMALL fee (think like itunes...$0.50 - $1.00 per download) and those who like the content can buy what they want. Thereby ensuring people will love the game & get what they want for a small fee and those with talent can make money and the greedy buggers make thier money in spades.:D
For example "X" person makes a great creature to the standard of the game. "X" person gets paid $50.00 for the creature by the company. If it is better than game made creatures - they should pay maybe $75.00 for it (we all know from the NWN experince that many in the community did better work than those in the company). Then they can turn around and offer it to the community for a $1.00 download. If it was done poorly or voted as such (They should have a voting system in place too for each creature, item, tileset, placebale, etc) and adjust download accordingly (perhaps $0.25 for good content - rating of 6-7, $0.50 for excellent rating of 8-9, $1.00 for Excellent quality - rating of 10). Perhaps they (the company) can pay for good ideas that will generate $$ too (i.e. like I did here...lol)- perhaps pay $10.00 for ideas that actually get turned into something. They would have a huge pool of talent to chose from!!..Just think..if ideas were voted on too by the community and liked by it in the majority - that would qualify for payment to the authour who came up with it. They would make thier money back in spades from those who would download content. If even 1000 people downloaded one creature at $0.50 each download = $500.00 dollars - $50.00 payment for authours work (creature) = $450.00 minus whatever overhead costs - say $50.00 = net profit of $400.00 in thier pocket. All that for just ONE creature and only "1000" downloads..which we know they most likely would have 5 times more than that at leastat a MINIMUM.
They could even do Monster Manual package releases
An example being:
Monster Manual 1.0
20 of the "Excellent" graded level monsters for $10.00
I think they can still do awesome and make thier $$ and a lot of it!!!!
On another forum (The CEP - for all those who know the NWN game) - someone said the following about the possible reason why this game may fail and not do so well for most of the fan base of NWN:
QUOTE:
"My guess is that they see no profit in it. It’s about $$$, not hardcore fan loyalty. The number of custom content creators is perhaps 1% of game users? I’m probably being very generous with that number. Why would they bother catering to such a small group, when they can release a product that most gamers that are interested in the genre will buy anyway? Indeed, added functionality to give that game longevity via robust custom content features is counterproductive from a monetary point of view. They don’t want people playing game X for 5+ years; they want those people to buy X2 and X3 over those same 5 years. People playing the same game for years generates no revenue, unless you are charged a monthly subscription for constant upgrades, and even then, a large segment of people have a strong aversion for that sort of gaming."
My REPLY/suggestion(s):
If they want to make money...they should make the best game...model it after the NWN game...and if $$ is what they want...then they should make it where people who are talented with making stuff for the community (the less than 1%) should be offered prize money for the content they make. They can sell "packages of content" to the community for a SMALL fee (think like itunes...$0.50 - $1.00 per download) and those who like the content can buy what they want. Thereby ensuring people will love the game & get what they want for a small fee and those with talent can make money and the greedy buggers make thier money in spades.:D
For example "X" person makes a great creature to the standard of the game. "X" person gets paid $50.00 for the creature by the company. If it is better than game made creatures - they should pay maybe $75.00 for it (we all know from the NWN experince that many in the community did better work than those in the company). Then they can turn around and offer it to the community for a $1.00 download. If it was done poorly or voted as such (They should have a voting system in place too for each creature, item, tileset, placebale, etc) and adjust download accordingly (perhaps $0.25 for good content - rating of 6-7, $0.50 for excellent rating of 8-9, $1.00 for Excellent quality - rating of 10). Perhaps they (the company) can pay for good ideas that will generate $$ too (i.e. like I did here...lol)- perhaps pay $10.00 for ideas that actually get turned into something. They would have a huge pool of talent to chose from!!..Just think..if ideas were voted on too by the community and liked by it in the majority - that would qualify for payment to the authour who came up with it. They would make thier money back in spades from those who would download content. If even 1000 people downloaded one creature at $0.50 each download = $500.00 dollars - $50.00 payment for authours work (creature) = $450.00 minus whatever overhead costs - say $50.00 = net profit of $400.00 in thier pocket. All that for just ONE creature and only "1000" downloads..which we know they most likely would have 5 times more than that at leastat a MINIMUM.
They could even do Monster Manual package releases
An example being:
Monster Manual 1.0
20 of the "Excellent" graded level monsters for $10.00
I think they can still do awesome and make thier $$ and a lot of it!!!!
Post edited by Archived Post on
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This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I figured it's always the big $$ they want rather than what the fans want..now if we can get both - and make both happy...why not!
They are looking at all manner of microtransactions and incentivising authors as well as making money for themselves.
I know they are debating enabling the distribution of content of this type, but the wrangling is going back and forth about the liabilities vs profit model.
I think it's great that you chipped in with the idea, Imtherealthin. Helps show the interest.
Pretty sure this won't be available at launch but lets hope this appears in some form one day.
I know the folks over at DAZ3D do a lot with selling this kind of content, so I know its not impossible (naysayers to the contrary).
- Bar
Make it where if people like the content based on the rating the community gives it (making it worth more to download if lots of downloads and less if hardly any) Cryptic can take 50% of the dowload.
The content is officially both that of the authour and Cryptic upon an agreement to upload content (shared liability/profit). So many ways this can be done and to motivate content submitters to make really great stuff. <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> will eventully not make its way into the system. Any uploader would have to submit a video or pic of content and it would have to be bug free on upload.
The sky is the limit on this...they really should explore this venue.
I see no problem with cryptic paying the person with C-store credits or even monthly subcription fees waved because cryptic will benifit from good player stories and designs.
i like your optimism, best case scenario Cryptic will allow you to have more slots to create and publish Adventures...i don t see them losing money...
it seems that using the Foundry is a privilege...
It may sell well at the begining but once people see how it works and that they can't make thier own PW - it will take the same road as other failed games.
I will wait and see what other people have to say about the game for a few months before I buy it once it is released. And if I hear nothing but <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> - I'm sticking with NWN. I may buy it, but I will never buy any more stuff CRYPTIC puts out if they screw this up.
I'm going to apply exactly the same mentality to my Iphone. Why should I pay for Angry Birds when I can go out and program it myself?
you are a bit harsh on them... mainly because Cryptic is not in the businees to make a single player game developed over several years with optional online multiplayer and giving away a strong and complicated building tool able to make good or even better contents than the original ones without seeing any money back beside the purchase of the basic box and the official extensions.
Cryptic is in the business of making and launching basic games(usually below average so far) with limited features, on a tight schedule, based on a shared engine, big IP names and using a single server with multiple instances to be more cost efficient. However they are able to improve it, adding features etc over time from subscriptions and/or microtransactions by follwing players and marketing demands.
If one take the orignal game boxes individually, NWN games have a better value(even at launch) than any games cryptic might be able to launch...however in the long run Neverwinter Online (only) COULD/MIGHT become better...but at a price...(how long are we willing to pay and/or to wait...is really up to us).
At the end of the day Neverwinter Online is the new thing...so people will be attracted and will be playing it anyways...just because it s new even if a couple of old games are doing the same things better and cheaper.
I would not be surprised that the majority of NWNx games players never knew or be bothered downloading and playing new adventures or persistent worlds (while totally free) and just sticked to the original campagnes and extensions available on the shelves of their local shops.
You want NwN 3 and if it's not, it is going to be fail for you no matter what, huh?
Doom, doom, doom, doooooooooom.
I am sorry, I actually laughed at this. I don't mean to be insulting, I understand why you would say this.
But with all due respect, Foundry has everything in it? Cryptic has finite resources, and there is no way it can put everything a module builder can ever need in it. Only way this could be close to true is opening it up.
This day and age we've seen the power of the markets and opening up development to "crowdsourcing" proven over and over again. When done carefully with forethought it can be hugely successful.
If you won't pay for it, that's fine. Its your right to decide how your dollars or microdollars are spent. Yes there are plenty of people in the Free2Play and microtransaction model that never spend a dime. Other people will. Its great in this sense that you do get something for free and people can still make money.
- Bar
Its certainly true that this game will fail to be NWN3, but then again they are trying to do something a bit different here.
But there are also signs that they understand at least some of what made NWN1&2 great for us as well, and that this game is a labor of love for people that actually enjoy this kind of game.
I am cautiously optimistic that this will be a good game, and hope that in time maybe this can become a spiritual successor, while being something new and cool in own right.
I don't see the point in coming to their forums with "full of fail" messages. They way you started was the right way, bring ideas and passion, with an open mind.
- Bar
I have offered a way for CRYPTIC to make money and for us (NWN fan base) to both be happy...now it is up to them to listen to us or to fail like most of these companies do.
I just shake my head at this stuff sometimes....when one has a successful formula...why would you screw with it? LISTEN to your your FANBASE!!!!
Once again a person does not understand. Cryptic has stated that there is no outside scripting there will be no user created content. So yes the foundry has everything in it you will create nothing truely original as you could with the other NW's. The only thing that might be considered original is the story I would bet a weeks pay I can find enough material for what ever story you create to give reasonable dought its original. We also have no idea how the finance model will be in this game. I have paid and will pay my 15$ a month to other games and will pay for this one if that is the case. If there are micro transactions then I might purchase them. I bought all of the WoW pets that split profits with make a wish. I still wont pay for stuff you create with nothing original. If and its a big IF cryptic opens up for outside scripting then that will be another conversation and I still wouldnt pay without a look at the content.
Angry Birds is original programming. The Iphone is just a computer you bought and you get to play Angry Birds on it. If you took angry birds and used everything in the app and nothing original and called it angry cows then heck no you shouldnt pay for that. If you make angry cows and use your own programming and do not rip off the original then you deserve money for it.
Oh okay, it has everything in it because that's the universe of things we can get?
And therefore ... what? Are you bemoaning this "fact"? Or saying the original poster is doomed? You wouldn't pay for better? I don't get what ever point you are trying to add to the conversation here. To me it looks like you are dismissing the idea proposed and just saying we'll have to make do, and nothing made from this will be worth paying for... which seems pretty depressing.
- Bar
But I would argue that the unique story I'm telling is completely original, even if the art and the world I'm telling it in are not. If I were to make an absolutely killer story, even given all the limitations of the foundry, wouldn't that be worth something (even if it's just like $0.99)?
Reimbursement would be problematic. They could give you cryptic point bundles I guess, not sure if that would work.
Longer and more stringent review would make many creators mad. I played in a STO module that was basically a knock off of the Hunt for Red October. The module was pretty good, but it could be construed as copyright infringement.
Anyways, charging for user made stuff is a slippery slope - what happens if I think it sucked? Do I get my money back?
IF they did charge for user created content (probably a really big IF), then it would be no different than if you bought any other micro-transaction content and the answer would be no, you would not get a refund.
You are over thinking it. As for copyright...who says anyone has a copyright on a creature called an "orc" or "giant" or "elf", etc? Where can one prove that those creatures came from Tolkien or D&D? ...good luck.
If people submitting creatures for example STUCK to the old Monster Manual creatures of the AD&D and D&D previous releases (incl. Fiend Folio, etc) there would be no problem as these rights are within CRYPTIC's right to use them since they bouhgt the D&D rights from Wizards of the Coast I'm assuming. Therefore they and anyone submitting under this CRYPTIC banner could produce works of that genre - CRYPTIC would just have to have a clause on the content that could be submitted - perhaps approval before uploaded. Come on there seemed to be very little problems with the VAULT...people submitted things all the time with little to no problem (aside from the few jerks who towards the end caused all the trouble with "copyright" issues for thier own work - but they were chased off the VAULT by the majority of the community who didn't want that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>).
As for content "suck[ing]"..if what I proposed here (see the points I made at the begining of this thread) was put into place then losing $0.50 - $1.00 per download would not be a bad loss for your downloading it. YOu of course would rate it as one star and as would others...thereby ensuring that others would not want to download that hak. Sucks you would lose a few cents or a dollar - but compared to what you could get from others who submitted content - it would be worth having the system in place.
Besides...creatures would probably be the ONLY issue surrounding "copyright" as who can do that with placeables and items and tilesets? So only creatures would have to be moderately monitored.
I'm sorry, but you do not have the right to call yourself "the fanbase of NWN." You may be part of the fan base, but I bought all the NWN games as well, and played them, and liked them, and I should be considered a part of that "fan base", as well as many others here. And it just happens that we disagree on your rather blunt statements regarding the business model, the PW issue and everything related to that.
So in the future, please do not talk on my behalf as "Cryptic is not listening to their fan base", as your opinion is only one among seneral others, who are also a part of that "fan base" you are referring to.
Thank you.
The if it sucked comment - if all the user stuff was for sale, many would not buy it because it is a crapshoot. Sure cryptics stuff is going to be a known commodity, but bob the builder who just made the module "The Church of Naughty Seasons" may have made a really craptastic module.
BTW I joined STO just to play with the Foundry (and have not actually played with it at all as I have been leveling my guy instead). But I have played in several user modules and they were very fun and well done so far.
Amen brotha.
I am not sure what point you are trying to make here. Cryptic adventures have just as much possibility as being as "craptastic" as anyone else's. Also, the approval process most assuredly weeds out a lot of what you are concerned about.
Maybe they are talking about in-game compensation. That would be pretty good IMHO.
The same way Apple can get sued for every app in the appstore?
I keep telling you folk that this isn't as big a deal as you think it is. It's happening every day.
Don't mind the fearmongering.
- Bar