New damage floater format

rockster

Thankyou for giving me even less reason to pay attention to them I find myself hardly looking at them now. They really do suck. Others may like them, I think they're awful, May as well just remove them altogether at this rate.

mintmark

I can't tell the difference between a big hit and a small hit.

With the old system I was looking for 6 digits vs 5 digits.
WIth this system I have to spot M vs K, so I have to read a character on the end of the string.
If it's in the thousands and 2 decimal places then it uses more space. 46123 becomes 46.12K which is an extra character, so it adds clutter.
Is it always 2 decimal places? If it varies, then that makes it harder again to parse the last character of a variable length string when you start reading it from the left.

And it uses the wrong letter for kilo, it should be lower case k.

Tonight I will look to see if there is a setting to switch it back to the old way. If there isn't, then my feedback would be to please make it configurable.

mintmark

Well, it's a bit worse than I thought... it's not always two decimal places, so as well as looking at the end of the string for K or M, I also have to notice where the decimal point is. Was that "23.45K" or "234.5K" that just flew past? In the old system it would have been 23450 vs 234500, easier to distinguish at a glance.

plasticbat

Yes, I agree. The current K,M format is really harder to get its actual number while fighting. In previous format, the first digit and the length of the number gave us a rough idea what the damage is. Now, we need to evaluate mentally and because of that, lose track of the next numbers. Since the numbers are saturated in the same region now, numbers are overlapped and make their appearance on the screen in shorter duration.

rockster

I'd like to put it to the Devs how they can genuinely believe that removing vital information and making it less easy to understand is in any way progressive in the game’s life or an improvement to the player experience.

Let’s be clear… the game was originally designed in an extremely elegant and intelligent way, it was so well made and so well-designed that it has been attracting and retaining players for 10 years which says a lot about the way it was put together, and despite the efforts to ‘rework’ it and delete bits of it, we still have the basic skeleton there which was given to us at the start. We were given all sorts of information at our fingertips which we need in order to have a quality game experience and people have always appreciated that.

The people who originally created and designed this system, including the damage floater displays, did not do this as a mistake, they were intelligent and thoughtful and skillful and experts, and did an amazing job at creating something extraordinary which works perfectly from a players perspective. They put a lot of care and thought and expertise into it and everything made perfect sense down to the smallest detail and it worked great. It’s often said that the combat system design (which includes floater displays) is one of the best in gaming. So I fail to understand why it is now being torn apart and modified. Things were put where they were throughout the game for very specific reasons, the designers did it with thought and skill, but now the people in charge apparently think they know better. (Do they? Why do they? Can we have some feedback on why it was changed?) The players came to rely on these aspects as part of their daily experience which lasted in many cases years for them, myself included, so why are they now being altered? Is it genuinely being done to improve the quality of life for the players and if so, how is it doing that? Why is it so hard to give an answer?

I have asked repeatedly in the assigned forum section I was pointed to by Percemer for some kind of reasoning as to why we have less information on our damage floaters now than we did before, just some basic explanation on why it’s been changed, if they are rounded-up or down, and also if the exact numbers are still going to be accessible for those who use ACT etc, but no-one has bothered to directly reply to my question. It shows a decided lack of interest and more importantly respect. It has always been an issue for years that there was little or no communication between the company and the players, as far as I'm aware it's always been the #1 issue which upsets players and makes them angry. Is it ever going to change?

mithmyrr

I personally prefer the new damage floaters. It is actually easier to tell how much damage I am doing. I don't have to count digits to see if that floater was 6 digits or 7. Also, with my rogue having multiple AoE dots going off at the same time, it is easier to distinguish one specific number showing in a cloud of digits.

arazith07

rockster#6227 said:

I'd like to put it to the Devs how they can genuinely believe that removing vital information and making it less easy to understand is in any way progressive in the game’s life or an improvement to the player experience.

It's been requested and they received very little negative feedback when it was on preview with it's own thread.

arazith07

rockster#6227 said:

I have asked repeatedly in the assigned forum section I was pointed to by Percemer for some kind of reasoning as to why we have less information on our damage floaters now than we did before, just some basic explanation on why it’s been changed, if they are rounded-up or down, and also if the exact numbers are still going to be accessible for those who use ACT etc, but no-one has bothered to directly reply to my question. It shows a decided lack of interest and more importantly respect. It has always been an issue for years that there was little or no communication between the company and the players, as far as I'm aware it's always been the #1 issue which upsets players and makes them angry. Is it ever going to change?

Damage floaters aren't read by ACT. The combat log is what is read. Damage floaters is just for quick reference, the addition of K, M etc is to more quickly tell how big a hit is. Before there was a lot of "was that 10mil hit or just 2 different smaller numbers that was next to each other and only looked like a big number". Also, maybe read all the dev posts for stuff? It's not their fault that you don't read them until something goes live, there is a whole section on top of the forums that highlights when they make posts even!

micky1p00

rockster#6227 said:

I'd like to put it to the Devs how they can genuinely believe that removing vital information and making it less easy to understand is in any way progressive in the game’s life or an improvement to the player experience.

Why it's vital? Whoever needs to know exactly uses the logs anyway.

rockster#6227 said:

Let’s be clear… the game was originally designed in an extremely elegant and intelligent way, it was so well made and so well-designed that it has been attracting and retaining players for 10 years which says a lot about the way it was put together, and despite the efforts to ‘rework’ it and delete bits of it, we still have the basic skeleton there which was given to us at the start. We were given all sorts of information at our fingertips which we need in order to have a quality game experience and people have always appreciated that.

The people who originally created and designed this system, including the damage floater displays, did not do this as a mistake, they were intelligent and thoughtful and skillful and experts, and did an amazing job at creating something extraordinary which works perfectly from a players perspective. They put a lot of care and thought and expertise into it and everything made perfect sense down to the smallest detail and it worked great. It’s often said that the combat system design (which includes floater displays) is one of the best in gaming. So I fail to understand why it is now being torn apart and modified. Things were put where they were throughout the game for very specific reasons, the designers did it with thought and skill, but now the people in charge apparently think they know better. (Do they? Why do they? Can we have some feedback on why it was changed?)

Elegant, Intelligent, skillful, thoughtful and masterful, that it needed updates and reworks every 3 months to not make players suicidal. Lets remind ourselves about the original refinement system, broken heroic encounters times, negative AH prices, loot rolls, original queue system where everyone timed the queue since there were no other option, no shared inventory, disappearing mails, entire professions system that was scraped and removed, most of the player skills worked in "surprising fashion" with more exceptions than any logic - like infinite looped buffs, super self buffed - self interacting DoTs, bosses that can be pushed, dungeons that can be just skipped to finish, it was so bad that players had to organize in custom channels just to find non-exploiting groups. Queues were so broken one could finish ToS in couple of minutes, and that's what everyone did. Scaling was "interesting", Progression died in mod4-5, when most players left the game and need the "dreadful" mod6 rework which overshot and made another part of the players to leave...
And this is just from memory, I can keep going if needed....

rockster#6227 said:

The players came to rely on these aspects as part of their daily experience which lasted in many cases years for them, myself included, so why are they now being altered? Is it genuinely being done to improve the quality of life for the players and if so, how is it doing that? Why is it so hard to give an answer?

Not familiar with anyone who really relies on those floaters.
QoL improvement by reducing visual noise.

rockster#6227 said:

I have asked repeatedly in the assigned forum section I was pointed to by Percemer for some kind of reasoning as to why we have less information on our damage floaters now than we did before, just some basic explanation on why it’s been changed, if they are rounded-up or down, and also if the exact numbers are still going to be accessible for those who use ACT etc, but no-one has bothered to directly reply to my question. It shows a decided lack of interest and more importantly respect. It has always been an issue for years that there was little or no communication between the company and the players, as far as I'm aware it's always been the #1 issue which upsets players and makes them angry. Is it ever going to change?

ACT uses the log, not related to visual things at all.

PS there were good things in the old design, some things became outdated, some were broken with too many reworks.
So it's not all horror, but it's definitely not some timeless genius and best thing since sliced bread and can't be improved upon

mintmark

arazith07 said:

Also, maybe read all the dev posts for stuff? It's not their fault that you don't read them until something goes live, there is a whole section on top of the forums that highlights when they make posts even!

That's a bit rich! If you had read the threads on the preview feedback forum you would have seen the same people asking the same questions and expressing the same concerns and getting no response or reassurance. So, the dev posts were read and were responded to, on the preview feedback forum while feedback was being requested.

This thread is because it went live in that state... but at least now it is live we can explore it in its released state, and provide feedback here, in the player feedback forum.

mintmark

micky1p00 said:

Not familiar with anyone who really relies on those floaters.
QoL improvement by reducing visual noise.


ACT uses the log, not related to visual things at all.

I only want to respond to some points...

• I look at the floaters during combat to get a feel for how much difference things in my rotation make, how much extra damage I get from combat advantage etc. I rarely use ACT, and then only if I want to average over a longer period. The floaters are good for instant feedback.
  
• These changes don't always reduce visual noise. The hit "45678" is now "45.68K", which is a longer string. Sadly, not all my hits are over 1 million.
  
• I asked a question about the logs (on the preview feedback forum) because I didn't know whether the rounding code affected what was saved in the logs. If you're saying it doesn't affect it and the exact value is in the log, then that's great
  

arazith07

mintmark said:

arazith07 said:

Also, maybe read all the dev posts for stuff? It's not their fault that you don't read them until something goes live, there is a whole section on top of the forums that highlights when they make posts even!

That's a bit rich! If you had read the threads on the preview feedback forum you would have seen the same people asking the same questions and expressing the same concerns and getting no response or reassurance. So, the dev posts were read and were responded to, on the preview feedback forum while feedback was being requested.

This thread is because it went live in that state... but at least now it is live we can explore it in its released state, and provide feedback here, in the player feedback forum.

It's obvious to many that damage floaters do not affect damage logs. It's a question that anyone with experience with the game, ESPECIALLY if they don't deal with ACT, would know. You have a combat chat tab, that's the log. These concerns and questions were likely ignored due to how elementary or clueless the player seems or not considered serious. Also, some questions were answered in the very first post before the questions were even asked.

rockster

micky1p00 said:

rockster#6227 said:

I'd like to put it to the Devs how they can genuinely believe that removing vital information and making it less easy to understand is in any way progressive in the game’s life or an improvement to the player experience.

Why it's vital? Whoever needs to know exactly uses the logs anyway.

rockster#6227 said:

Let’s be clear… the game was originally designed in an extremely elegant and intelligent way, it was so well made and so well-designed that it has been attracting and retaining players for 10 years which says a lot about the way it was put together, and despite the efforts to ‘rework’ it and delete bits of it, we still have the basic skeleton there which was given to us at the start. We were given all sorts of information at our fingertips which we need in order to have a quality game experience and people have always appreciated that.

The people who originally created and designed this system, including the damage floater displays, did not do this as a mistake, they were intelligent and thoughtful and skillful and experts, and did an amazing job at creating something extraordinary which works perfectly from a players perspective. They put a lot of care and thought and expertise into it and everything made perfect sense down to the smallest detail and it worked great. It’s often said that the combat system design (which includes floater displays) is one of the best in gaming. So I fail to understand why it is now being torn apart and modified. Things were put where they were throughout the game for very specific reasons, the designers did it with thought and skill, but now the people in charge apparently think they know better. (Do they? Why do they? Can we have some feedback on why it was changed?)

Elegant, Intelligent, skillful, thoughtful and masterful, that it needed updates and reworks every 3 months to not make players suicidal. Lets remind ourselves about the original refinement system, broken heroic encounters times, negative AH prices, loot rolls, original queue system where everyone timed the queue since there were no other option, no shared inventory, disappearing mails, entire professions system that was scraped and removed, most of the player skills worked in "surprising fashion" with more exceptions than any logic - like infinite looped buffs, super self buffed - self interacting DoTs, bosses that can be pushed, dungeons that can be just skipped to finish, it was so bad that players had to organize in custom channels just to find non-exploiting groups. Queues were so broken one could finish ToS in couple of minutes, and that's what everyone did. Scaling was "interesting", Progression died in mod4-5, when most players left the game and need the "dreadful" mod6 rework which overshot and made another part of the players to leave...
And this is just from memory, I can keep going if needed....

rockster#6227 said:

The players came to rely on these aspects as part of their daily experience which lasted in many cases years for them, myself included, so why are they now being altered? Is it genuinely being done to improve the quality of life for the players and if so, how is it doing that? Why is it so hard to give an answer?

Not familiar with anyone who really relies on those floaters.
QoL improvement by reducing visual noise.

rockster#6227 said:

I have asked repeatedly in the assigned forum section I was pointed to by Percemer for some kind of reasoning as to why we have less information on our damage floaters now than we did before, just some basic explanation on why it’s been changed, if they are rounded-up or down, and also if the exact numbers are still going to be accessible for those who use ACT etc, but no-one has bothered to directly reply to my question. It shows a decided lack of interest and more importantly respect. It has always been an issue for years that there was little or no communication between the company and the players, as far as I'm aware it's always been the #1 issue which upsets players and makes them angry. Is it ever going to change?

ACT uses the log, not related to visual things at all.

PS there were good things in the old design, some things became outdated, some were broken with too many reworks.
So it's not all horror, but it's definitely not some timeless genius and best thing since sliced bread and can't be improved upon

So you got your own way, I'm very happy for you. You must be one of the handful of people pushing for change and in the ear of the Devs. You lot have much to answer for. I hope you know that there is continually talk about who the Devs listen to and how it is out of touch with the main playerbase and this is why the game continues to get dumbed-down and worse over time. -Because they're listening to the wrong people. - Not my words btw, I've read it said many times by others who have stronger views on this than I do. But this is true for most games where the Devs, with the best of intentions by the way, seek player input. A relatively small bunch of pushy people will think of themselves as the 'chosen ones', and regardless of what is good for the game, they will push their own personal views into the ears of the Devs convincing them it's in the best interests of the game, and ultimately inflict them on everyone else. Over time the game in question slowly morphs into something tailored specifically for their own style of gameplay and what suits them. They all feel oh-so special and like pseudo-Devs. It's an ego game for them, and not really in the best interests of the game itself or the majority of the playerbse, but good on you for worming your way into that position and convincing the Devs you represent everyone else's wishes. Must take some dedication and time to do.


"Why it's vital? Whoever needs to know exactly uses the logs anyway. "

Then why have floaters there in the first place? Who wants to trawl through meters of tiny text in chat logs after a fight for half and hour and try to work out how much damage was done when they only need to look at the floaters at the time and use their brain fast at the time it's happening. If you're trawling through logs to find out what's going on you're a number-cruncher and an egg-head and it's not really connected to normal gameplay for most people. The floaters are there for a reason, and that reason is to have a fast and ACCURATE representation of what is going on at any given moment right in front of you, and now that purpose has been diminished.


"Elegant, Intelligent, skillful, thoughtful and masterful, that it needed updates and reworks every 3 months to not make players suicidal. Lets remind ourselves about the original refinement system, broken heroic encounters times, negative AH prices, loot rolls, original queue system where everyone timed the queue since there were no other option, no shared inventory, disappearing mails, entire professions system that was scraped and removed, most of the player skills worked in "surprising fashion" with more exceptions than any logic - like infinite looped buffs, super self buffed - self interacting DoTs, bosses that can be pushed, dungeons that can be just skipped to finish, it was so bad that players had to organize in custom channels just to find non-exploiting groups. Queues were so broken one could finish ToS in couple of minutes, and that's what everyone did. Scaling was "interesting", Progression died in mod4-5, when most players left the game and need the "dreadful" mod6 rework which overshot and made another part of the players to leave...
And this is just from memory, I can keep going if needed.... "

I was talking about the graphical design connected to the floaters and similar things, please don't gaslight and make it all about so many other aspects of the game like queuing, Auction House, scaling and whatever else etc. This thread is about a specific visual graphical thing and the way the game is designed visually to aid players while they play and give them the info they need at a glance, not all that other stuff.


"Not familiar with anyone who really relies on those floaters.
QoL improvement by reducing visual noise. "

So you're obviously insulated in your own 'elite' bubble and don't know how most people play the game or why those floaters were put there in the first place.
And yes, the stupid 'visual noise' argument is responsible for continually deleting important info we had and now lost, including food items shown in the buff bar (which everyone wants back) and the master boons, all dumbing-down the game and giving us less of a quality experience than we had to start with, but they're now considering putting the master boons back again, it seems to depend on who is working there at the time as to what 'visual noise' is and what they think should be taken out, put back, taken out, put back.


"ACT uses the log, not related to visual things at all. "

Not everyone uses ACT, I'm one of them, so not everyone understands how it works. This is why we were asking the question.


"PS there were good things in the old design, some things became outdated, some were broken with too many reworks.
So it's not all horror, but it's definitely not some timeless genius and best thing since sliced bread and can't be improved upon"

Many people do in fact think it was created in an extremely genius way and is in fact timeless, born-out by the way it has lasted so long. And many people are massive fans of the original Devs and the work they did in creating and designing this amazing game in such a unique manner. So you're welcome to your opinion, but we will never be agreeing on that.

rockster

arazith07 said:

mintmark said:

arazith07 said:

Also, maybe read all the dev posts for stuff? It's not their fault that you don't read them until something goes live, there is a whole section on top of the forums that highlights when they make posts even!

That's a bit rich! If you had read the threads on the preview feedback forum you would have seen the same people asking the same questions and expressing the same concerns and getting no response or reassurance. So, the dev posts were read and were responded to, on the preview feedback forum while feedback was being requested.

This thread is because it went live in that state... but at least now it is live we can explore it in its released state, and provide feedback here, in the player feedback forum.

It's obvious to many that damage floaters do not affect damage logs. It's a question that anyone with experience with the game, ESPECIALLY if they don't deal with ACT, would know. You have a combat chat tab, that's the log. These concerns and questions were likely ignored due to how elementary or clueless the player seems or not considered serious. Also, some questions were answered in the very first post before the questions were even asked.

Please link me to where it was clearly explained the justification to changing the floaters in the first place.

plasticbat

rockster#6227 said:

arazith07 said:

mintmark said:

arazith07 said:

Also, maybe read all the dev posts for stuff? It's not their fault that you don't read them until something goes live, there is a whole section on top of the forums that highlights when they make posts even!

That's a bit rich! If you had read the threads on the preview feedback forum you would have seen the same people asking the same questions and expressing the same concerns and getting no response or reassurance. So, the dev posts were read and were responded to, on the preview feedback forum while feedback was being requested.

This thread is because it went live in that state... but at least now it is live we can explore it in its released state, and provide feedback here, in the player feedback forum.

It's obvious to many that damage floaters do not affect damage logs. It's a question that anyone with experience with the game, ESPECIALLY if they don't deal with ACT, would know. You have a combat chat tab, that's the log. These concerns and questions were likely ignored due to how elementary or clueless the player seems or not considered serious. Also, some questions were answered in the very first post before the questions were even asked.

Please link me to where it was clearly explained the justification to changing the floaters in the first place.

https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1266779/official-floating-damage-text-feedback-thread/p1

arazith07

rockster#6227 said:

arazith07 said:

mintmark said:

arazith07 said:

Also, maybe read all the dev posts for stuff? It's not their fault that you don't read them until something goes live, there is a whole section on top of the forums that highlights when they make posts even!

That's a bit rich! If you had read the threads on the preview feedback forum you would have seen the same people asking the same questions and expressing the same concerns and getting no response or reassurance. So, the dev posts were read and were responded to, on the preview feedback forum while feedback was being requested.

This thread is because it went live in that state... but at least now it is live we can explore it in its released state, and provide feedback here, in the player feedback forum.

It's obvious to many that damage floaters do not affect damage logs. It's a question that anyone with experience with the game, ESPECIALLY if they don't deal with ACT, would know. You have a combat chat tab, that's the log. These concerns and questions were likely ignored due to how elementary or clueless the player seems or not considered serious. Also, some questions were answered in the very first post before the questions were even asked.

Please link me to where it was clearly explained the justification to changing the floaters in the first place.

As it was pointed out by someone else, it's in the preview thread in which YOU have posted. Commas were quickly requested and they came back by going a step beyond and adding in abbreviations, which sparked a conversation of how that would be implemented, no one said anything about wanting to go back to full numbers until you came along and started asking for people to restate things that you couldn't be bothered to read the initial post.

The most anyone has pushed back is requesting SI abbreviations.

micky1p00

rockster#6227 said:

So you got your own way, I'm very happy for you. You must be one of the handful of people pushing for change and in the ear of the Devs. You lot have much to answer for. I hope you know that there is continually talk about who the Devs listen to and how it is out of touch with the main playerbase and this is why the game continues to get dumbed-down and worse over time. -Because they're listening to the wrong people. - Not my words btw, I've read it said many times by others who have stronger views on this than I do. But this is true for most games where the Devs, with the best of intentions by the way, seek player input. A relatively small bunch of pushy people will think of themselves as the 'chosen ones', and regardless of what is good for the game, they will push their own personal views into the ears of the Devs convincing them it's in the best interests of the game, and ultimately inflict them on everyone else. Over time the game in question slowly morphs into something tailored specifically for their own style of gameplay and what suits them. They all feel oh-so special and like pseudo-Devs. It's an ego game for them, and not really in the best interests of the game itself or the majority of the playerbse, but good on you for worming your way into that position and convincing the Devs you represent everyone else's wishes. Must take some dedication and time to do.

WTF?
I'm not sure what type of delusional that is, but you want to go ad-hominem, cool. First show me where I've requested something to be dumbed down. Or whispered to some Dev, or "warmed my way into some special position" or anything.
Come on, you have an angry wall of text of delusions and "wisdom" here. It's like reading an adult tantrum but with less sense or intelligence. I must be responsible for global warming, chem-trails, and part of the illuminati that control the world. BTW I need a new human suit, it's not easy for us lizard people.
So, show me at least one post regarding the last 6 mods, except that one about the floaters where I've suggested how to keep all the digits... by splitting the large component and fade it away faster. (Closer to how it works before the current changes)

rockster#6227 said:

"Why it's vital? Whoever needs to know exactly uses the logs anyway. "

Then why have floaters there in the first place? Who wants to trawl through meters of tiny text in chat logs after a fight for half and hour and try to work out how much damage was done when they only need to look at the floaters at the time and use their brain fast at the time it's happening. If you're trawling through logs to find out what's going on you're a number-cruncher and an egg-head and it's not really connected to normal gameplay for most people. The floaters are there for a reason, and that reason is to have a fast and ACCURATE representation of what is going on at any given moment right in front of you, and now that purpose has been diminished.

1. The floaters there to make the player think they do something. They are for engagement. Don't believe me? There is a stream where the previous Executive producer talks about it. Search for it.

2. Again talking about me? Lets make it clear then, when there are a lot of hits, the floaters are not accurate to begin with. The damage collapses and they show a sum of different hits, and do not differentiate correct CA, Crit, Deflect, and so on. Lets think about this a moment, think a moment more. re-read the accurate part, and now think a bit more.

rockster#6227 said:

"Elegant, Intelligent, skillful, thoughtful and masterful, that it needed updates and reworks every 3 months to not make players suicidal. Lets remind ourselves about the original refinement system, broken heroic encounters times, negative AH prices, loot rolls, original queue system where everyone timed the queue since there were no other option, no shared inventory, disappearing mails, entire professions system that was scraped and removed, most of the player skills worked in "surprising fashion" with more exceptions than any logic - like infinite looped buffs, super self buffed - self interacting DoTs, bosses that can be pushed, dungeons that can be just skipped to finish, it was so bad that players had to organize in custom channels just to find non-exploiting groups. Queues were so broken one could finish ToS in couple of minutes, and that's what everyone did. Scaling was "interesting", Progression died in mod4-5, when most players left the game and need the "dreadful" mod6 rework which overshot and made another part of the players to leave...
And this is just from memory, I can keep going if needed.... "

I was talking about the graphical design connected to the floaters and similar things, please don't gaslight and make it all about so many other aspects of the game like queuing, Auction House, scaling and whatever else etc. This thread is about a specific visual graphical thing and the way the game is designed visually to aid players while they play and give them the info they need at a glance, not all that other stuff.

Oh so you were talking about the great design that every other game had? Like guild wars, WoW, and so on..

Or you talk about the specific skillful, masterful, genius design that wouldn't let you know if a hit was both critical and had CA because it would show only one icon at a time.
The one that didn't have a deflect icon until recently,

Or the awesome design that covers the screen so much you can't see telegraphs in trials, and people recommended to remove them to learn the mechanics more easily.

So how it gave the accurate info at a glance if it's missing half the hit states, sums up damage numbers of multiple hits, covers the screen unless you zoomed out, and so unique that no other game had them... yeah... sure...

rockster#6227 said:

"Not familiar with anyone who really relies on those floaters.
QoL improvement by reducing visual noise. "

So you're obviously insulated in your own 'elite' bubble and don't know how most people play the game or why those floaters were put there in the first place.

You know, that person part of your post getting old fast. Are you representing the entire player base? Just so I know.
Or you are claiming that the everyone playing like you do?

btw, I was accurate in what I've wrote floaters are to get a rough idea what happens, you want accurate use the logs.
Floaters never were accurate enough.

rockster#6227 said:

And yes, the stupid 'visual noise' argument is responsible for continually deleting important info we had and now lost, including food items shown in the buff bar (which everyone wants back) and the master boons, all dumbing-down the game and giving us less of a quality experience than we had to start with, but they're now considering putting the master boons back again, it seems to depend on who is working there at the time as to what 'visual noise' is and what they think should be taken out, put back, taken out, put back.

Now who is gaslighting? Show me were I've posted anything about removing information... go on... or dumbing down..
You asked why, that's the resoning.. you want to complain, I'm not the address... But when you do complain and write nonsense about a half broken system as:

"did not do this as a mistake, they were intelligent and thoughtful and skillful and experts, and did an amazing job at creating something extraordinary which works perfectly from a players perspective. They put a lot of care and thought and expertise into it and everything made perfect sense down to the smallest detail and it worked great"

Then well.... don't be surprised when people doubt your judgment..

rockster#6227 said:

"ACT uses the log, not related to visual things at all. "

Not everyone uses ACT, I'm one of them, so not everyone understands how it works. This is why we were asking the question.

And you got an answer, and you complain that you got one?

rockster#6227 said:

"PS there were good things in the old design, some things became outdated, some were broken with too many reworks.
So it's not all horror, but it's definitely not some timeless genius and best thing since sliced bread and can't be improved upon"

Many people do in fact think it was created in an extremely genius way and is in fact timeless, born-out by the way it has lasted so long. And many people are massive fans of the original Devs and the work they did in creating and designing this amazing game in such a unique manner. So you're welcome to your opinion, but we will never be agreeing on that.

So who is gaslighting now again? Read my paragraph about the original game.
Those pink nostalgia glasses are so fun, until someone opened a mod3 pirate server, and people got a hard reminder that the game wasn't all roses and sunshine at mod3.

btw, since when are you playing the game? I couldn't not notice the hashtags in your account and the forum date...

rockster

plasticbat said:

rockster#6227 said:

arazith07 said:

mintmark said:

arazith07 said:

Also, maybe read all the dev posts for stuff? It's not their fault that you don't read them until something goes live, there is a whole section on top of the forums that highlights when they make posts even!

That's a bit rich! If you had read the threads on the preview feedback forum you would have seen the same people asking the same questions and expressing the same concerns and getting no response or reassurance. So, the dev posts were read and were responded to, on the preview feedback forum while feedback was being requested.

This thread is because it went live in that state... but at least now it is live we can explore it in its released state, and provide feedback here, in the player feedback forum.

It's obvious to many that damage floaters do not affect damage logs. It's a question that anyone with experience with the game, ESPECIALLY if they don't deal with ACT, would know. You have a combat chat tab, that's the log. These concerns and questions were likely ignored due to how elementary or clueless the player seems or not considered serious. Also, some questions were answered in the very first post before the questions were even asked.

Please link me to where it was clearly explained the justification to changing the floaters in the first place.

https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1266779/official-floating-damage-text-feedback-thread/p1

The only thing it says to explain is: "Our ultimate goal with these changes were to improve combat text readability."
But it doesn't provide any explanation on what was wrong with it for 10 years and why anyone had an issue with it, ie; what exactly was the issue, enough that it warranted changing. So there is really no justification given other than they apparently wanted to get their fingers into it and tweak it for the sake of it.

rockster

micky1p00 said:

rockster#6227 said:

So you got your own way, I'm very happy for you. You must be one of the handful of people pushing for change and in the ear of the Devs. You lot have much to answer for. I hope you know that there is continually talk about who the Devs listen to and how it is out of touch with the main playerbase and this is why the game continues to get dumbed-down and worse over time. -Because they're listening to the wrong people. - Not my words btw, I've read it said many times by others who have stronger views on this than I do. But this is true for most games where the Devs, with the best of intentions by the way, seek player input. A relatively small bunch of pushy people will think of themselves as the 'chosen ones', and regardless of what is good for the game, they will push their own personal views into the ears of the Devs convincing them it's in the best interests of the game, and ultimately inflict them on everyone else. Over time the game in question slowly morphs into something tailored specifically for their own style of gameplay and what suits them. They all feel oh-so special and like pseudo-Devs. It's an ego game for them, and not really in the best interests of the game itself or the majority of the playerbse, but good on you for worming your way into that position and convincing the Devs you represent everyone else's wishes. Must take some dedication and time to do.

WTF?
I'm not sure what type of delusional that is, but you want to go ad-hominem, cool. First show me where I've requested something to be dumbed down. Or whispered to some Dev, or "warmed my way into some special position" or anything.
Come on, you have an angry wall of text of delusions and "wisdom" here. It's like reading an adult tantrum but with less sense or intelligence. I must be responsible for global warming, chem-trails, and part of the illuminati that control the world. BTW I need a new human suit, it's not easy for us lizard people.
So, show me at least one post regarding the last 6 mods, except that one about the floaters where I've suggested how to keep all the digits... by splitting the large component and fade it away faster. (Closer to how it works before the current changes)

rockster#6227 said:

"Why it's vital? Whoever needs to know exactly uses the logs anyway. "

Then why have floaters there in the first place? Who wants to trawl through meters of tiny text in chat logs after a fight for half and hour and try to work out how much damage was done when they only need to look at the floaters at the time and use their brain fast at the time it's happening. If you're trawling through logs to find out what's going on you're a number-cruncher and an egg-head and it's not really connected to normal gameplay for most people. The floaters are there for a reason, and that reason is to have a fast and ACCURATE representation of what is going on at any given moment right in front of you, and now that purpose has been diminished.

1. The floaters there to make the player think they do something. They are for engagement. Don't believe me? There is a stream where the previous Executive producer talks about it. Search for it.

2. Again talking about me? Lets make it clear then, when there are a lot of hits, the floaters are not accurate to begin with. The damage collapses and they show a sum of different hits, and do not differentiate correct CA, Crit, Deflect, and so on. Lets think about this a moment, think a moment more. re-read the accurate part, and now think a bit more.

rockster#6227 said:

"Elegant, Intelligent, skillful, thoughtful and masterful, that it needed updates and reworks every 3 months to not make players suicidal. Lets remind ourselves about the original refinement system, broken heroic encounters times, negative AH prices, loot rolls, original queue system where everyone timed the queue since there were no other option, no shared inventory, disappearing mails, entire professions system that was scraped and removed, most of the player skills worked in "surprising fashion" with more exceptions than any logic - like infinite looped buffs, super self buffed - self interacting DoTs, bosses that can be pushed, dungeons that can be just skipped to finish, it was so bad that players had to organize in custom channels just to find non-exploiting groups. Queues were so broken one could finish ToS in couple of minutes, and that's what everyone did. Scaling was "interesting", Progression died in mod4-5, when most players left the game and need the "dreadful" mod6 rework which overshot and made another part of the players to leave...
And this is just from memory, I can keep going if needed.... "

I was talking about the graphical design connected to the floaters and similar things, please don't gaslight and make it all about so many other aspects of the game like queuing, Auction House, scaling and whatever else etc. This thread is about a specific visual graphical thing and the way the game is designed visually to aid players while they play and give them the info they need at a glance, not all that other stuff.

Oh so you were talking about the great design that every other game had? Like guild wars, WoW, and so on..

Or you talk about the specific skillful, masterful, genius design that wouldn't let you know if a hit was both critical and had CA because it would show only one icon at a time.
The one that didn't have a deflect icon until recently,

Or the awesome design that covers the screen so much you can't see telegraphs in trials, and people recommended to remove them to learn the mechanics more easily.

So how it gave the accurate info at a glance if it's missing half the hit states, sums up damage numbers of multiple hits, covers the screen unless you zoomed out, and so unique that no other game had them... yeah... sure...

rockster#6227 said:

"Not familiar with anyone who really relies on those floaters.
QoL improvement by reducing visual noise. "

So you're obviously insulated in your own 'elite' bubble and don't know how most people play the game or why those floaters were put there in the first place.

You know, that person part of your post getting old fast. Are you representing the entire player base? Just so I know.
Or you are claiming that the everyone playing like you do?

btw, I was accurate in what I've wrote floaters are to get a rough idea what happens, you want accurate use the logs.
Floaters never were accurate enough.

rockster#6227 said:

And yes, the stupid 'visual noise' argument is responsible for continually deleting important info we had and now lost, including food items shown in the buff bar (which everyone wants back) and the master boons, all dumbing-down the game and giving us less of a quality experience than we had to start with, but they're now considering putting the master boons back again, it seems to depend on who is working there at the time as to what 'visual noise' is and what they think should be taken out, put back, taken out, put back.

Now who is gaslighting? Show me were I've posted anything about removing information... go on... or dumbing down..
You asked why, that's the resoning.. you want to complain, I'm not the address... But when you do complain and write nonsense about a half broken system as:

"did not do this as a mistake, they were intelligent and thoughtful and skillful and experts, and did an amazing job at creating something extraordinary which works perfectly from a players perspective. They put a lot of care and thought and expertise into it and everything made perfect sense down to the smallest detail and it worked great"

Then well.... don't be surprised when people doubt your judgment..

rockster#6227 said:

"ACT uses the log, not related to visual things at all. "

Not everyone uses ACT, I'm one of them, so not everyone understands how it works. This is why we were asking the question.

And you got an answer, and you complain that you got one?

rockster#6227 said:

"PS there were good things in the old design, some things became outdated, some were broken with too many reworks.
So it's not all horror, but it's definitely not some timeless genius and best thing since sliced bread and can't be improved upon"

Many people do in fact think it was created in an extremely genius way and is in fact timeless, born-out by the way it has lasted so long. And many people are massive fans of the original Devs and the work they did in creating and designing this amazing game in such a unique manner. So you're welcome to your opinion, but we will never be agreeing on that.

So who is gaslighting now again? Read my paragraph about the original game.
Those pink nostalgia glasses are so fun, until someone opened a mod3 pirate server, and people got a hard reminder that the game wasn't all roses and sunshine at mod3.

btw, since when are you playing the game? I couldn't not notice the hashtags in your account and the forum date...

Your tone is disgusting.

rockster

arazith07 said:

rockster#6227 said:

arazith07 said:

mintmark said:

arazith07 said:

Also, maybe read all the dev posts for stuff? It's not their fault that you don't read them until something goes live, there is a whole section on top of the forums that highlights when they make posts even!

That's a bit rich! If you had read the threads on the preview feedback forum you would have seen the same people asking the same questions and expressing the same concerns and getting no response or reassurance. So, the dev posts were read and were responded to, on the preview feedback forum while feedback was being requested.

This thread is because it went live in that state... but at least now it is live we can explore it in its released state, and provide feedback here, in the player feedback forum.

It's obvious to many that damage floaters do not affect damage logs. It's a question that anyone with experience with the game, ESPECIALLY if they don't deal with ACT, would know. You have a combat chat tab, that's the log. These concerns and questions were likely ignored due to how elementary or clueless the player seems or not considered serious. Also, some questions were answered in the very first post before the questions were even asked.

Please link me to where it was clearly explained the justification to changing the floaters in the first place.

As it was pointed out by someone else, it's in the preview thread in which YOU have posted. Commas were quickly requested and they came back by going a step beyond and adding in abbreviations, which sparked a conversation of how that would be implemented, no one said anything about wanting to go back to full numbers until you came along and started asking for people to restate things that you couldn't be bothered to read the initial post.

The most anyone has pushed back is requesting SI abbreviations.

As stated to Plasticbat in the post above, the initial post (which I did read - several times before posting here,) there is no justification given for the decision to change the text other than they apparently wanted to 'improve' it which infers it needed it. But nowhere does it state what was wrong with it in the first place. ie; the justification.

arazith07

rockster#6227 said:

plasticbat said:

rockster#6227 said:

arazith07 said:

mintmark said:

arazith07 said:

Also, maybe read all the dev posts for stuff? It's not their fault that you don't read them until something goes live, there is a whole section on top of the forums that highlights when they make posts even!

That's a bit rich! If you had read the threads on the preview feedback forum you would have seen the same people asking the same questions and expressing the same concerns and getting no response or reassurance. So, the dev posts were read and were responded to, on the preview feedback forum while feedback was being requested.

This thread is because it went live in that state... but at least now it is live we can explore it in its released state, and provide feedback here, in the player feedback forum.

It's obvious to many that damage floaters do not affect damage logs. It's a question that anyone with experience with the game, ESPECIALLY if they don't deal with ACT, would know. You have a combat chat tab, that's the log. These concerns and questions were likely ignored due to how elementary or clueless the player seems or not considered serious. Also, some questions were answered in the very first post before the questions were even asked.

Please link me to where it was clearly explained the justification to changing the floaters in the first place.

https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1266779/official-floating-damage-text-feedback-thread/p1

The only thing it says to explain is: "Our ultimate goal with these changes were to improve combat text readability."
But it doesn't provide any explanation on what was wrong with it for 10 years and why anyone had an issue with it, ie; what exactly was the issue, enough that it warranted changing. So there is really no justification given other than they apparently wanted to get their fingers into it and tweak it for the sake of it.

That's all they need to justify though! If want to see what was wrong before, just take a look at the screenshot later in the post. That is NOT readable at all. They don't need to describe to players what they themselves are seeing, otherwise they would be very Orwellian.

arazith07

If a messy house is fine for a parent, they've been fine with it for 10 years, but their child decides that they want it to be more organized and presentable, shouldn't that child be allowed to organize it at no extra work to the parent? All we are talking about is the appearance of damage floaters and making it more readible, why are you so upset over it?

rockster

When the text floaters are coming up so rapidly, in very specific situations, removing a couple of digits and replacing them with a k or m is not going to change the fact they are all overlaying each other. That would require a different approach in placement or size or translucency, number length would not make one bit of difference so this change will not address that anyway. They will still display in the same way when they come up so fast all on top of each other. There was already an option to turn them on and off in settings anyway if someone is so overwhelmed by seeing too many numbers.

But I disagree they don't need to explain to players, they are not kings and queens sitting in a golden turret overlooking the dirty peasants and throwing them crumbs when they feel like it, they work for the players and it's the players who provide the reason for existence of the game and company and it's always been that way. They change something which has been in the game for a decade and people are used to, they should be explaining exactly why they're doing it.

rockster

And just for clarification, are u guys saying that when it stated damage from an encounter was 687,765 (for instance), that it was not actually that number? When the number was so specific down to the last digit? How does that work then? Where did the number come from? Because there was a comment above which said it was not correct.

"btw, I was accurate in what I've wrote floaters are to get a rough idea what happens, you want accurate use the logs"

rockster

arazith07 said:

If a messy house is fine for a parent, they've been fine with it for 10 years, but their child decides that they want it to be more organized and presentable, shouldn't that child be allowed to organize it at no extra work to the parent? All we are talking about is the appearance of damage floaters and making it more readible, why are you so upset over it?

They're not more readable now than before. They're actually harder to read because they tell you even less than they did before. You look at it and now have to do extra mental gymnastics to work out what's going on whereas before it was just spelt out for you intuitively, u saw the amount of digits and knew just by glancing at it in one split second what the figure was. And as I said above in another reply to you, taking off a couple of digits and adding an m or k is not going to make it less messy, they will still display in the same way over the top of each other if that is your worry and what you're trying to get rid of.

arazith07

rockster#6227 said:

And just for clarification, are u guys saying that when it stated damage from an encounter was 687,765 (for instance), that it was not actually that number? When the number was so specific down to the last digit? How does that work then? Where did the number come from? Because there was a comment above which said it was not correct.

"btw, I was accurate in what I've wrote floaters are to get a rough idea what happens, you want accurate use the logs"

Seeing the number 687765 (because they didn't have commas even) could either be you did a hit for 687765, or have two different hits of 687 and 765. Also, if you did two at will attacks you could see the sum of those two hits and think it was a single attack. In both of these cases, your log would show what really happened and your dummy hits could have told you that you were better than you actually were.

rockster#6227 said:

arazith07 said:

If a messy house is fine for a parent, they've been fine with it for 10 years, but their child decides that they want it to be more organized and presentable, shouldn't that child be allowed to organize it at no extra work to the parent? All we are talking about is the appearance of damage floaters and making it more readible, why are you so upset over it?

They're not more readable now than before. They're actually harder to read because they tell you even less than they did before. You look at it and now have to do extra mental gymnastics to work out what's going on whereas before it was just spelt out for you intuitively, u saw the amount of digits and knew just by glancing at it in one split second what the figure was. And as I said above in another reply to you, taking off a couple of digits and adding an m or k is not going to make it less messy, they will still display in the same way over the top of each other if that is your worry and what you're trying to get rid of.

Ok, but that's your opinion. I think it is easier to read now. I'm not sure what mental gymnastics you are talking about, I see 687765 and 687.76k as similar numbers, and if I cared about the exta .005k, I could read it in the log. So far, it's mainly just been you that has voiced the fact that you prefer how it used to be. (others voiced that they want K to be k, which is another thing).

rockster

"btw, since when are you playing the game? I couldn't not notice the hashtags in your account and the forum date..."

Not that it should matter, but seeing you're trying to point-score by insinuating I am so new I can't possibly know wtf I'm talking about, I've been playing since Mod 2, before Icewind Dale was released. So the same year the game came out brand new. I no longer use my original account which obviously includes the forum account attached to it.

micky1p00

rockster#6227 said:

micky1p00 said:

rockster#6227 said:

So you got your own way, I'm very happy for you. You must be one of the handful of people pushing for change and in the ear of the Devs. You lot have much to answer for. I hope you know that there is continually talk about who the Devs listen to and how it is out of touch with the main playerbase and this is why the game continues to get dumbed-down and worse over time. -Because they're listening to the wrong people. - Not my words btw, I've read it said many times by others who have stronger views on this than I do. But this is true for most games where the Devs, with the best of intentions by the way, seek player input. A relatively small bunch of pushy people will think of themselves as the 'chosen ones', and regardless of what is good for the game, they will push their own personal views into the ears of the Devs convincing them it's in the best interests of the game, and ultimately inflict them on everyone else. Over time the game in question slowly morphs into something tailored specifically for their own style of gameplay and what suits them. They all feel oh-so special and like pseudo-Devs. It's an ego game for them, and not really in the best interests of the game itself or the majority of the playerbse, but good on you for worming your way into that position and convincing the Devs you represent everyone else's wishes. Must take some dedication and time to do.

WTF?
I'm not sure what type of delusional that is, but you want to go ad-hominem, cool. First show me where I've requested something to be dumbed down. Or whispered to some Dev, or "warmed my way into some special position" or anything.
Come on, you have an angry wall of text of delusions and "wisdom" here. It's like reading an adult tantrum but with less sense or intelligence. I must be responsible for global warming, chem-trails, and part of the illuminati that control the world. BTW I need a new human suit, it's not easy for us lizard people.
So, show me at least one post regarding the last 6 mods, except that one about the floaters where I've suggested how to keep all the digits... by splitting the large component and fade it away faster. (Closer to how it works before the current changes)

rockster#6227 said:

"Why it's vital? Whoever needs to know exactly uses the logs anyway. "

Then why have floaters there in the first place? Who wants to trawl through meters of tiny text in chat logs after a fight for half and hour and try to work out how much damage was done when they only need to look at the floaters at the time and use their brain fast at the time it's happening. If you're trawling through logs to find out what's going on you're a number-cruncher and an egg-head and it's not really connected to normal gameplay for most people. The floaters are there for a reason, and that reason is to have a fast and ACCURATE representation of what is going on at any given moment right in front of you, and now that purpose has been diminished.

1. The floaters there to make the player think they do something. They are for engagement. Don't believe me? There is a stream where the previous Executive producer talks about it. Search for it.

2. Again talking about me? Lets make it clear then, when there are a lot of hits, the floaters are not accurate to begin with. The damage collapses and they show a sum of different hits, and do not differentiate correct CA, Crit, Deflect, and so on. Lets think about this a moment, think a moment more. re-read the accurate part, and now think a bit more.

rockster#6227 said:

"Elegant, Intelligent, skillful, thoughtful and masterful, that it needed updates and reworks every 3 months to not make players suicidal. Lets remind ourselves about the original refinement system, broken heroic encounters times, negative AH prices, loot rolls, original queue system where everyone timed the queue since there were no other option, no shared inventory, disappearing mails, entire professions system that was scraped and removed, most of the player skills worked in "surprising fashion" with more exceptions than any logic - like infinite looped buffs, super self buffed - self interacting DoTs, bosses that can be pushed, dungeons that can be just skipped to finish, it was so bad that players had to organize in custom channels just to find non-exploiting groups. Queues were so broken one could finish ToS in couple of minutes, and that's what everyone did. Scaling was "interesting", Progression died in mod4-5, when most players left the game and need the "dreadful" mod6 rework which overshot and made another part of the players to leave...
And this is just from memory, I can keep going if needed.... "

I was talking about the graphical design connected to the floaters and similar things, please don't gaslight and make it all about so many other aspects of the game like queuing, Auction House, scaling and whatever else etc. This thread is about a specific visual graphical thing and the way the game is designed visually to aid players while they play and give them the info they need at a glance, not all that other stuff.

Oh so you were talking about the great design that every other game had? Like guild wars, WoW, and so on..

Or you talk about the specific skillful, masterful, genius design that wouldn't let you know if a hit was both critical and had CA because it would show only one icon at a time.
The one that didn't have a deflect icon until recently,

Or the awesome design that covers the screen so much you can't see telegraphs in trials, and people recommended to remove them to learn the mechanics more easily.

So how it gave the accurate info at a glance if it's missing half the hit states, sums up damage numbers of multiple hits, covers the screen unless you zoomed out, and so unique that no other game had them... yeah... sure...

rockster#6227 said:

"Not familiar with anyone who really relies on those floaters.
QoL improvement by reducing visual noise. "

So you're obviously insulated in your own 'elite' bubble and don't know how most people play the game or why those floaters were put there in the first place.

You know, that person part of your post getting old fast. Are you representing the entire player base? Just so I know.
Or you are claiming that the everyone playing like you do?

btw, I was accurate in what I've wrote floaters are to get a rough idea what happens, you want accurate use the logs.
Floaters never were accurate enough.

rockster#6227 said:

And yes, the stupid 'visual noise' argument is responsible for continually deleting important info we had and now lost, including food items shown in the buff bar (which everyone wants back) and the master boons, all dumbing-down the game and giving us less of a quality experience than we had to start with, but they're now considering putting the master boons back again, it seems to depend on who is working there at the time as to what 'visual noise' is and what they think should be taken out, put back, taken out, put back.

Now who is gaslighting? Show me were I've posted anything about removing information... go on... or dumbing down..
You asked why, that's the resoning.. you want to complain, I'm not the address... But when you do complain and write nonsense about a half broken system as:

"did not do this as a mistake, they were intelligent and thoughtful and skillful and experts, and did an amazing job at creating something extraordinary which works perfectly from a players perspective. They put a lot of care and thought and expertise into it and everything made perfect sense down to the smallest detail and it worked great"

Then well.... don't be surprised when people doubt your judgment..

rockster#6227 said:

"ACT uses the log, not related to visual things at all. "

Not everyone uses ACT, I'm one of them, so not everyone understands how it works. This is why we were asking the question.

And you got an answer, and you complain that you got one?

rockster#6227 said:

"PS there were good things in the old design, some things became outdated, some were broken with too many reworks.
So it's not all horror, but it's definitely not some timeless genius and best thing since sliced bread and can't be improved upon"

Many people do in fact think it was created in an extremely genius way and is in fact timeless, born-out by the way it has lasted so long. And many people are massive fans of the original Devs and the work they did in creating and designing this amazing game in such a unique manner. So you're welcome to your opinion, but we will never be agreeing on that.

So who is gaslighting now again? Read my paragraph about the original game.
Those pink nostalgia glasses are so fun, until someone opened a mod3 pirate server, and people got a hard reminder that the game wasn't all roses and sunshine at mod3.

btw, since when are you playing the game? I couldn't not notice the hashtags in your account and the forum date...

Your tone is disgusting.

It's less disgusting than your entire first paragraph of personal attack and BS.
"The pot calling the kettle black"

rockster

arazith07 said:

rockster#6227 said:

And just for clarification, are u guys saying that when it stated damage from an encounter was 687,765 (for instance), that it was not actually that number? When the number was so specific down to the last digit? How does that work then? Where did the number come from? Because there was a comment above which said it was not correct.

"btw, I was accurate in what I've wrote floaters are to get a rough idea what happens, you want accurate use the logs"

Seeing the number 687765 (because they didn't have commas even) could either be you did a hit for 687765, or have two different hits of 687 and 765. Also, if you did two at will attacks you could see the sum of those two hits and think it was a single attack. In both of these cases, your log would show what really happened and your dummy hits could have told you that you were better than you actually were.

rockster#6227 said:

arazith07 said:

If a messy house is fine for a parent, they've been fine with it for 10 years, but their child decides that they want it to be more organized and presentable, shouldn't that child be allowed to organize it at no extra work to the parent? All we are talking about is the appearance of damage floaters and making it more readible, why are you so upset over it?

They're not more readable now than before. They're actually harder to read because they tell you even less than they did before. You look at it and now have to do extra mental gymnastics to work out what's going on whereas before it was just spelt out for you intuitively, u saw the amount of digits and knew just by glancing at it in one split second what the figure was. And as I said above in another reply to you, taking off a couple of digits and adding an m or k is not going to make it less messy, they will still display in the same way over the top of each other if that is your worry and what you're trying to get rid of.

Ok, but that's your opinion. I think it is easier to read now. I'm not sure what mental gymnastics you are talking about, I see 687765 and 687.76k as similar numbers, and if I cared about the exta .005k, I could read it in the log. So far, it's mainly just been you that has voiced the fact that you prefer how it used to be. (others voiced that they want K to be k, which is another thing).

You see 6 digits and you automatically know it's 100's of thousands. 4 and it's thousands. You see 7 and you know it's over a million. It is instant. And hard-wired for the players. Not so to read a specific letter and translate it. You now have to focus on the actual letter on the end, seek it out while you're doing other things and find that one single digit which is moving around and physically read it and process what letter it is and then translate that in your head to the meaning, not instantly visually scan a string of digits in one single move and do an estimate on how many there are as to what ballpark you're in.

Yes. Yes it is my opinion. We all have them, just like that thing you sit on. We all have them. And mine is no less valid than yours. Which is why I am putting it in the forum here. In the feedback section. You know, where people give feedback.

micky1p00

rockster#6227 said:

And just for clarification, are u guys saying that when it stated damage from an encounter was 687,765 (for instance), that it was not actually that number? When the number was so specific down to the last digit? How does that work then? Where did the number come from? Because there was a comment above which said it was not correct.

"btw, I was accurate in what I've wrote floaters are to get a rough idea what happens, you want accurate use the logs"

1. The forums has a quote function. Or you afraid to quote me?
2. You tested in one hit, and waited... now do a multiple with a dot, fast, and tell me if the floaters combine multiple damage into one floater or not....

arazith07

rockster#6227 said:

arazith07 said:

rockster#6227 said:

And just for clarification, are u guys saying that when it stated damage from an encounter was 687,765 (for instance), that it was not actually that number? When the number was so specific down to the last digit? How does that work then? Where did the number come from? Because there was a comment above which said it was not correct.

"btw, I was accurate in what I've wrote floaters are to get a rough idea what happens, you want accurate use the logs"

Seeing the number 687765 (because they didn't have commas even) could either be you did a hit for 687765, or have two different hits of 687 and 765. Also, if you did two at will attacks you could see the sum of those two hits and think it was a single attack. In both of these cases, your log would show what really happened and your dummy hits could have told you that you were better than you actually were.

rockster#6227 said:

arazith07 said:

If a messy house is fine for a parent, they've been fine with it for 10 years, but their child decides that they want it to be more organized and presentable, shouldn't that child be allowed to organize it at no extra work to the parent? All we are talking about is the appearance of damage floaters and making it more readible, why are you so upset over it?

They're not more readable now than before. They're actually harder to read because they tell you even less than they did before. You look at it and now have to do extra mental gymnastics to work out what's going on whereas before it was just spelt out for you intuitively, u saw the amount of digits and knew just by glancing at it in one split second what the figure was. And as I said above in another reply to you, taking off a couple of digits and adding an m or k is not going to make it less messy, they will still display in the same way over the top of each other if that is your worry and what you're trying to get rid of.

Ok, but that's your opinion. I think it is easier to read now. I'm not sure what mental gymnastics you are talking about, I see 687765 and 687.76k as similar numbers, and if I cared about the exta .005k, I could read it in the log. So far, it's mainly just been you that has voiced the fact that you prefer how it used to be. (others voiced that they want K to be k, which is another thing).

Yes. Yes it is my opinion. We all have them, just like that thing you sit on. We all have them. And mine is no less valid than yours. Which is why I am putting it in the forum here. In the feedback section. You know, where people give feedback.

Maybe take that into consideration then before launching into attacks against fellow forum members and developers. We have been answering your questions and pointing out where you missed them, yet you've been attacking the opinions of others along with some facts.