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M25 General Feedback Thread

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    strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
    edited February 2023

    Once upon of time, good healer was the aggro magnet from the mob. The tank might take aggro of the boss but the mob went to the healer. I don't know if this is still the case or the healers does not heal like they used to be.

    They even today, often (not always) still can be the aggro magnet (for mobs) referencing the healers at times...

    Why a blend for: Refulgent Fortification - "Threat applied -2%" & "Healing +1%" :+1:

    shining brightly; radiant; gleaming:
    Crystal chandeliers and gilded walls made the opera house a refulgent setting for the ball.

    It be far more attractive, if it reduced threat; while splitting to boost healing a bit, even for party-wide heals; even if single target heals (only) get the reduced damage & speed increase, yet should be boosted to 1.5% per stack--as suggested above.

    The earlier suggestion though suggested to changing it to -2% damage reduction instead, that I'd say offer less choice not more that differentiates it. As there are already 3 that offer a reduced damage choice...
    Post edited by strathkin on
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    plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,223 Arc User
    edited February 2023
    That was good old days that pure good healing cleric needed body guard for protection. Party members needed to watch if the healer was in trouble and stepped in if needed.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
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    melotai#0794 melotai Member Posts: 276 Arc User
    Currently, I do not think threat generation is an issue for healer types. In pre-made groups for RTQ, RADQ or apparently anything else, I rarely have to worry about aggro and when it does happen it usually gets taken care of pretty quickly by the DPS.


    For solo queuing of content acquiring aggro seems easy enough for all of my non-tank toons and in the lesser epic content I have no issue with pretend tanking for a while until the tank takes over or the DPS without aggro do their job.


    I only see this item being used by newer players who do not know that it is a waste of resources and time to even bother with such an item.
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    liadan1984#8734 liadan1984 Member Posts: 315 Arc User
    edited February 2023

    That was good old days that pure good healing cleric needed body guard for protection. Party members needed to watch if the healer was in trouble and stepped in if needed.

    It still happens. I still run the occasional HC VOS, which is where I mostly experience healer agro. The last one I ran ended because I (the healer), died due to too much healer agro in the maze. My healer loadout has over 1m HP. The Elven Warriors REALLY hate me. (There was no red. Only dead).

    I was hit by three different Elven Warriors. Maybe just a little unlucky. I do try to stay pretty close to the tank (but not so close that I'm in the danger zone), while keeping an eye on the squishy DPS.


    However, I still wouldn't use the new "healer" combat enchant. A bonus only for using single target heals? Not worth switching out my current set up.
    Lia
    Co-Guild Leader
    Ghost Templars L20
    Alliance: Tyrs Paladium
    Main: Cleric (Heals|DPS)
    Alt: Warlock
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    nevertwinevertwi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 80 Arc User
    edited February 2023
    Healer aggro is not relevant in its current state. Just think about it, when healer may gets aggro: It means that the boss did more damage than any dps AND more than the threat created by the tank. Overheals do not generate threat!

    Healers only get aggro when one of the following happens:
    • One mob of a group of mobs is attacked by the party and the healer heals the wounded party member. The other mobs did not took any damage and thus heal gets aggro on all the mobs because their threat to the other party members is 0! No -threat combat enchantment would change the situation to get below 0 threat! This is the typical situation if tank does not pay attention or greedy dps takes only half the mobs.
    • The healer stays too close to mobs and gets the initial aggro of them. Or some mobs spawn that are already put into combat with treat only generated by a heal casted by the healer. That is probably what happended in the example posted of liadan1984. No -threat combat enchantment would help you to not get initial aggro!
    • A massive burst of incoming damage is thrown in at the party and the group did not payed attention that the fight started. This can happen for example at first boss MToS after the initial tank buster. If the incoming damage is immediately healed the healer may get aggro. The issue is still not the healer here! It means that the tank literally only ducked down and didnt inflicted any damage (~200k would be already enough) and NONE of the dps did any serious damage (because they waited before rushing in? again only 1m dmg needed). This is a tank fault and while -threat combat enchantment would help a bit, it wouldn't really change the outcome!
    • The fight went on for some time and everyone except the healer died at least once a few seconds ago. Then the healer may get aggro. Well, again -threat combat enchantment would help a bit, but the healer only got aggro because everyone else died! This situation cannot be mitigated by any of those enchatements! And it is the task of the tank to get immediately back aggro with a hardtaunt! Again the -threat combat enchantment wouldn't change the outcome.
    Actually you can argue the other way around. The -10% incoming damage from any other combat enchantment helps more in any situation, because it increases your chance to survive any of the situations above!
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    strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
    edited February 2023
    I found it strange that Workshop wasn't shown on the Sword Coast Map, I'm hoping they did not take it out...


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    plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,223 Arc User
    edited February 2023
    strathkin said:

    I found it strange that Workshop wasn't shown on the Sword Coast Map, I'm hoping they did not take it out...


    Not strange. It is 'normal'.
    Workshop does not show in map if you don't have VIP.
    You don't have VIP in preview.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
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    manuostarmanuostar Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    Hello! New enchantsments with 1600 TIL is a terrible idea. Year ago, you make new enchantsment system. It was good, we exchanged the old one and upgrade new. Many players make new enchantsment bound to account, because we think that this was the final version of enchantsments reworking. Right now on Preview Server you add new enchantsments with high TIL. It's made old 1500 TIL enchantsments useless. All resources, time and money wasted for nothing. We even can't exchange the old one, because they bound. Please, remove it! Thanks.
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    werdandi#8366 werdandi Member Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited February 2023
    I did not go through the campaign but I have something to say:

    it is insulting to have 2-stat enchants with more item level. Let me be clear: I really appreciate to have more variety (and I will definitely upgradde some new enchants to balance and min-max stats) but the enchants should have the same item level at equal quality.
    It is okay if if they have a little bit more extra stats (it was worked differently for for old obsolete 2-stat and 3-stats enchants: they had more extra stats but less combined rating ) but it is unacceptable they have more item level.
    In all fairness, it makes no sense.

    Please consider this because players will be pissed off with this novelty, especially because many of us have bound some enchants.


    I see no issue with the new insignias because they are aligned in terms of item level.
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    mynaammynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 937 Arc User
    strathkin said:

    I found it strange that Workshop wasn't shown on the Sword Coast Map, I'm hoping they did not take it out...


    You dont have vip on preview that only shows if you have vip
    There are more than BIS players in this game
    RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
    FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
    Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



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    stof#3099 stof Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    Would be nice if the sybella quests are updated with the old campaings: sharandar and path of fallen since its being more than 2 years they have being released
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    sonofstealthblsonofstealthbl Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    New area is too big and too spread out in groups that have quest objectives; feels like I'm playing City of Moving Ice. Many quests were fine to complete on preview where almost nobody is playing, but trying to kill demon summoners or lizard riders when everyone is trying to kill them too... that will be an issue. We need more mob groups, smaller area/scaled down, and less mini boss currency to purchase items in the campaign store. As it is on preview, one person needs to kill 75 mini bosses to get ONE combat enchantment, that's ridiculous. People will likely spend hours and hours just trying to get one enchantment for one character. It is not fun and it is not engaging. The new area is very pretty, but very lifeless. NPCs are everywhere, but they seem mindless walking around and not doing anything. The spider squishing HE is awesome, very different from what we are used to. Rewards from the new trial need to be increased dramatically, consumables to try and complete it are expensive and the rewards are bound. It would be better if the mythic rings were unbind-able with tokens (costing around 40 to unbind) so that there would be reason to run it besides fun and getting it completed.
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    dragonsdf#2979 dragonsdf Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    hi all
    this maybe a dream or will be overlooked easely but i wish they do some balancing in other areas in the game here some propositions
    -make getting one lockbox key daily or 4 per week for free to play and make the vip add 5 key on top or 1key free daily and if you have vip get 5 dily it will balance the game btween f2p adn p2w
    -balance the item lvl of weapond sets and gears that only obtainebal from farming trails or compain currencys make the player have more choices in gear sets without losing item lvl
    -improve the mote from uncommon to epic upgrade % because 1% - 3% - 5% then jump to 100% is very bad at least the uncomming 10% rare in 20% ,epic 30% ,legendary 40% the mithic 100% that will be fair at least
    -also fix the zen market trade is take toooooooooo much time at least you can make it like the player who have a price the zen and ad like 1zen=750ad then put the amount on market and the other players who want to buy the zen can choose how much he will buy and both player recive instantly the currency just like the auction house but shop style if you understand me
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    velid1337velid1337 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    I dont know if this is right place to make post such as this, but i'd like to share my opinion in regards of juma removal from vallenhas. Personally for me i do not think it's good idea to do so from couple of reasons which i will state below.

    - It will decrease activity within given map literally to 0
    - By decreasing activity new players will have rough time getting forger box which can be and is useful tool
    - By taking away juma you might as well take away x2 event for this map because 90% of people will never come back to it
    (Which again will have negative and long term effect when it comes to new players)

    My suggestion would be, if you plan to impliment juma into the new map you can simply double the price of juma in vallenhas, this way players wont be able to take advantage of multiple juma sources (to some extent), x2 event will remain viable and new players who are gonna grinding for rods to get their forgerbox upgrated will have a decent chance of getting it. Personally for me juma and x2 event was only reason why was i coming back in there. But bottom line is this is gonna have long term negative effect rather then positive, i do as well understand that you'd like to put all players into the one map so game can look more lively which you will get to see either way, but as i mentioned think about new players, if you still decide to proceed with this i have one last suggestion to make and that is put all rods into the store where they can be bought with any kind of currency except one from bel because as ive mentioned no one is gonna be doing that anymore

    In reference to this link:

    Kind Regards
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    plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,223 Arc User
    edited February 2023
    Will Juma be removed or it goes back to its original location?
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
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    bonbonfiendbonbonfiend Member Posts: 21 Arc User

    Will Juma be removed or it goes back to its original location?

    Can he be in two places at once? I mean, look at Celeste, Makos, etc. they seem to be everywhere. Sometimes dead, sometimes undead.

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    hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,460 Arc User
    edited March 2023
    I'm just starting a look on preview, but right at the start I'm wondering if there are different story options for drow characters. They should have a different experience in getting to Menzoberranzan. And then there's Quewaun, who isn't a "Drow" but a "Menzoberranzan Renegade". I'm really interested to see how in blazes she's supposed to get in and out of that city alive. There should be a standing warrant for her arrest, at the very least, and almost certainly a BOLO ("be on the lookout"). I would expect loyalist eyes-and-ears to be using either magical or non-magical means to maintain such a BOLO. I'm hoping the devs have explored the tantalizing storyline issues. It should be impossible for a Menzoberranzan Renegade character to move about the city completely unnoticed.

    I have 3 more hours until the local diner opens for breakfast (and I'm *starving*) so I'm going to transfer my renegade over to Preview and see what happens.
    Post edited by hustin1 on
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    aesculaepiusaesculaepius Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 68 Arc User
    FOR THE LOVE OF GOD(S), FINALLY LET CLERICS TURN UNDEAD. This has been an issue since literally the original trailer for the game. Celeste is clearly destroying undead in the intro movie, and clerics can't do it. They are already pretty worthless as anything but spamming heals (and even then, can't keep a party alive at 75-80K IL) so maybe let them do one of the things they've always been able to do in D&D? You have the "run/afraid" mechanic already in the game, so at minimum they should be able to rebuke them with minimal coding. And a simple modification of the "minion consume" power would at least let them destroy weak undead. At level 20, I'm supposed to practically be a demigod in D&D rules. The fact that skeletons not only do not run away from me, but can hack the hell out of me with archery is ridiculous.

    Considering that the random queues sit and wait for tanks and healers, you might at least be able to ameliorate a little bit of the cleric wait times by making them a little more fun to play.
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    aesculaepiusaesculaepius Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 68 Arc User
    pitshade said:

    Removal of Juma will make Vallenhas about as dead as the other later zones. As said above, this will hurt new players trying to get the forger box. That requires 6 points from HEs 1 from small, 3 from Ape (think Siege doesn't count) Additionally the first rod comes from HEs and another from Insurgency bosses. With no one farming bags, new players will have next to no chance at getting especially the Battle rod from bosses. Insurgencies will take longer to complete, boss spawns aren't guaranteed and typically require veteran players to kill them.

    Beyond the Forger Box, it is just sad to see a beloved zone wrecked just to try and get people in the new area. Vallenhas on double events is one of the most active places left in the game. The new zone also has somewhat of a prohibitive item level for new players, limiting who will be able to take advantage of the bags after the first 2 weeks.

    As for me personally, it also leaves me in doubt about continuing Sybella legacy quests as there isn't a replacement campaign to set for my characters.

    This is the one thing that really disturbs me about the upcoming module. It is probably already set in stone but IMO it is a bad idea which doesn't help the game, especially newer players. Adding the merchant to later zone with updated rewards is a great idea. Removing him from Vallenhas is a terrible one. I mean, all the campaigns are basically frozen in time. We still see Rath Modar in the Vanguard camp even if we killed him im Rise of Tiamat. We are still going to be fighting Zariel's minions in Vallenhas even if we already got her to switch sides again in the Citadel.

    The game needs some constancy rather than constant change, leaving a trail of broken systems in its wake.

    They need to do another zone overhaul like they did for all of the Elemental Evil ones. Or just give out the rewards for Dread Ring in a box and "vault" it until it can get a rework like Sharandar. It's such a grind to create a new character and nobody is in any of the old zones anyway.
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    aesculaepiusaesculaepius Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 68 Arc User
    Recognize that people really hate most of the reworks you've done. People used to do Tiamat and Demogorgon and (once you fixed it) Castle Ravenloft. Now people abandon right away or wait around for 15 minutes. You downscale people so much that people leave the Manycoins Bank as well. It's not fun having a level 20 character get pummeled by things we should be able to kill with no effort. Going through Cragmire Crypts is not "epic" and the rewards aren't worth the skeleton key. People only do it for the RAD. It certainly isn't catering to the 1%, and it's not pleasing the 99%. While the attempt to make things like Karrundax look better were a good effort, the fact that you can't see the original floor makes AoE effects like Hallowed Ground worthless since they're buried under the "new" floor. The list is practically endless. Why isn't ALL of PE a heal/rest zone? I can change my loadout anywhere in it (just like a campfire) but I have to go to a campfire to invoke if I don't have VIP? But I heal wounds? The inconsistencies are really stacking up. And no new updates for those of us at VIP level 12 for years...professions rework that is outdated already. I get that you don't have the staff to rewrite the game, but you could make small balance changes to make it more fun. Signets of Patronage were a great idea. Why don't I have them for any zones in the past two years? Why aren't they automatically a part of any new zone? Why do you insist that I play through a new zone on ALL of my characters or wait three years to do it at double speed? Why don't you reduce the spawn time on KoS and Tyrant in Chult? Not everything is a massive code rework. But when you only have four people in the single instance of a zone, it may be time to consider changing the zone so that the few people there can actually complete content, since you insist on us doing so to get boon points. Strongholds were a great introduction and became irrelevant within a year. If you didn't have SH level 20, you probably were never going to get it. People only join guilds with SH level 20 because of the boons. It's really not feasible to join a weaker one if you're trying to run endgame content. And then you place newly-minted level 20 characters in RDQ/RADQ and people abandon, so they never get to finish them.

    People want to play a modern D&D game. You can't rewrite the entire game for 5E rules, but you could at least make it fun.

    Final rant: Celeste worships Selûne, the goddess of the moon and lycanthropes. While she may continue to wonder eternally what Respen has been up to, she should never say "Justice must be served," because Justice is Tyr's domain. You could at least have the voice actress record deity-appropriate lines for the companion, written by someone know knows Realsm lore.
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    tornnomartornnomar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 396 Arc User
    I see some good things brought up here, and many I do agree wholeheartedly with. But that doesn't mean I wont add a thing or two:)

    Restore the quest "A Chill Wind" given by SGT Knox. After all, its only the gateway into Icewind Dale. There is a thread about it in Bug Reports. Being an earlier adventure Campaign, that is currently 5 boons that many new(er) players are missing out on.

    Stop it with the every other Mod or so method of 'balancing' classes. Was mentioned in another post, Fix the current classes to bring all the DPS classes in line with one another.

    Backport the Heroic Encounter system of Northdark to prior areas like Sharandar, Dragon Bone Vale, Path of The Fallen, etc to eliminate the need for a BHE in the equation. A decently geared character should be able to handle the normal HE's solo to complete that weekly. Especially Sharandar, as the next weekly you get access to requires stomach turning repetitive quests. This means the 1st two areas. The Mire is tolerable as Etrien sends you to all three areas and you get one of the weeklies fairly early.

    Lastly, way back, shortly after Mod 2, people would ask, "What class do I roll? I'm new to the game!" The answer was "roll a GWF, and go IV Sent, profit." Fast Foward >>:) Now the Answer is a Thaum Wizzy to that very same question. Many a player has dusted off that Wizard they've had shelved for a few years. Not a complaint mind you, they were long over due but not as over due as Rangers whose last major change, in addition to losing the 'hunter' moniker were complete and utter nerfs to pretty much all of their encounters and skills. This is one of the classes an earlier post mentioned, without specifying any class, where they only have one role, and they cannot even perform that role well.

    One positive I can close with is that at least the 'balancing' in this game is no longer based on manufactured PVP videos.
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    nayirunayiru Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    There is some bug with at will and tab from Cleric (arbiter and devout) combined with the new Mysthic Lightning Flash :
    - Scattering light doesnt proc the Mystic lightning flash for arbiter and devout paths except when i cancel anim the at-will with tab
    - Conflagrate can proc 2 times (when casting time + when i cancel anim the at-will whit tab)

    Arbiter can proc the Mystic Lightning flash with tab and without dealing any damage (this effect doesnt work on devout)


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    gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,053 Arc User
    I remember when these threads had 15+ pages of responses. I guess killing the combat killed the community.
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    arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,719 Arc User

    I remember when these threads had 15+ pages of responses. I guess killing the combat killed the community.

    OR...they stopped doing controversial changes that upset the player base.
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    xgcmakerxgcmaker Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    Neverwinter is dying because Devs are catering to the top 1%. That group doesn't spend any money on the game. All of the fun is being drained out of the game due to the extreme master content and grinds. Devs should listen to the other 99% who pay the bills not the window licking Youtubers posting videos.
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    darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,259 Arc User
    edited March 2023
    xgcmaker said:

    Neverwinter is dying because Devs are catering to the top 1%. That group doesn't spend any money on the game. All of the fun is being drained out of the game due to the extreme master content and grinds. Devs should listen to the other 99% who pay the bills not the window licking Youtubers posting videos.

    I dont agree. In last mods they are pushing normal version of last content too, and lots of commodities anc content / activities for new players to catch up.

    New players are very important, indeed, but end-game content is what makes new players progress because you have goals to get there, and every step you do in that direction is what makes MMORPGs make sense.

    The game is structured with some layers of "difficulty" and some dungeons / trials will be easier the more you progress (and learn).

    You cant argue that this mod 25 is for end players only because that would be a big lie.
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