make the skill checks useful again

amystone

Hello,

Back in the old days, farming skill nodes was a real thing. There was even an event where you could get a dragon egg from them. It was very important for crafting and an important event for many people. Right now skill nodes are like pocket change, and i think it is a shame. Once again this game has content that is barely used by players.

Please add cool items to the drop table so that players are happy to find a skill node again.

Thanks

plasticbat

Skill node is being farmed to get Insignia for Insignia powder. Not a 'cool' stuff but it is still opened by many, It is still a 'thing'. Hardly barely used.

amystone

okay tbh i didn't know you could get insignia from them, or maybe i forgot it. But it doesn't look like cool content i would expect from a class-specific or theme specific skill check node. I wrote a post about an idea i had, it is currently pending moderation when i modified a word from it right after posting. I hope people can read it eventually, i think it's worth considering and would add more gameplay value in my view than spamming them to build up on insignia powder. Of course to each his own.

hadestemplar

amystone said:

Hello,

Back in the old days, farming skill nodes was a real thing. There was even an event where you could get a dragon egg from them. It was very important for crafting and an important event for many people. Right now skill nodes are like pocket change, and i think it is a shame. Once again this game has content that is barely used by players.

Please add cool items to the drop table so that players are happy to find a skill node again.

Thanks

Skill nodes where used in legacy cafting system, as way to gathere materials.
With crafting system overhaul, the skill nodes become just as leftovers of old systems. Personally I don't understand why they even keep it, cuz what it gives at most times are black pearl. And it's not like we lack refine point providing items.


There is option to make it usefull of them, by adding some masterwork materials in dungeon skill nodes. But in open world, duno is it even worth to keep.

rockster

They're rubbish and I tend not to worry about them anymore.

kharkov58

So why try to deprive others of the skill nodes?

plasticbat

The current value of skill node for those who are still spending time to open skill node and random treasure box (no skill kit needed) are:
1. insignia (for insignia powder)
2. stuff to exchange to silver (2nd prize)
3. RP

For those who do not care about those, they would/should not spend time on it.

Personally, I find there are many still opening skill node because when I went to the designed skill node places, often, they were already taken.

mintmark

I open skill nodes all the time...

Also, if you are in a guild with the explorer's boon, the skill nodes are part of a daily quest for influence.
And one of the Vallenhas rods is in there... and some currency during events.

greywynd

The nodes are useful. They may not be useful for all players or their chosen playstyle. Such is the nature of MMOs.

hadestemplar

care to share how they are usefull? Or what other play style can be apply on skill nodes? I mean do you peform some sort dance ceremony or etc before using using skill nodes??

For last 500x times I do used tools/skill nodes, all I get black pearl.

Black pearl provide refine points. Not much help here considering having over 20 mil refine poitns with toons.

Sell to vendor? having couple thousand gold, not much of help there either..

So, any ideas how they are usefull?

plasticbat

hadestemplar#9918 said:

care to share how they are usefull? Or what other play style can be apply on skill nodes? I mean do you peform some sort dance ceremony or etc before using using skill nodes??

For last 500x times I do used tools/skill nodes, all I get black pearl.

Black pearl provide refine points. Not much help here considering having over 20 mil refine poitns with toons.

Sell to vendor? having couple thousand gold, not much of help there either..

So, any ideas how they are usefull?

I already mentioned it provides insignia for insignia powder. I don't know why all you get is black pearl though. When did you do your 500x times? Of course, insignia powder may not be useful to you too if you have everything upgraded to max.

I have just open one skill node (the first one of the day).

pitshade

I just ran a character to cap in Northdark and got 7 green insignia in 30 to 40 minutes with no real additional time spent. The treasure items in the nodes easily cover the cost of the kits. It isn't a massive amount of powder but it doesn't cost much of anything either.

amystone

I mean what is even the point gameplay wise and roleplay wise of opening skill nodes related to nature, holyness, arcana, dungeoneering that are even affected by your class and so on to finally always find the same basic piece of gear in all of them for... a mount gear piece that you need hundreds of to get any good one from ?

I mean this doesn't look like the appeal to it is being optimized and cleverly designed :

- there is a difference between nodes, now the loot is the same. Only thing that changes is the "treasure" icon and name, value is always the same, it's like roleplaying around the colour of the candy you find in your pocket.

- there seems to be no relation between the container and the sought after content (insignias).

- there are most of the time of time treasures and refining points but the amounts are certainly neglectible to most players. I'm pretty sure i even drop more RP farming mobs in open world in half the time than what's required with the skill nodes, where skill nodes are often hidden and take some time find, and you would expect something better, etc.

I think you can either be happy for this just for its existence, thinking "i can get something with it so it's ok" or look how underwhelming content it is with even unused roleplay elements being developed and shown live for them.

plasticbat

1. There is no difference between nodes except you can open one kind of them without using kit.
2. This game is designed to make you to do the same thing again and again and again. Every week (or even everyday), your character will go through the same route to do the same thing. If you have more characters, you run through the same route even more. The skill nodes are in your route. You know exactly where they are without looking for them. If you spend more effort than the action to open it, you do it wrong (or inefficient).
3. It is up to you to decide if you should take a little time to open it. If it does not worth your effort (just like many other things in the game), there is no point to do it.
4. Same thing applies to random treasure chests in the route.
5. I don't know any real and material role play element this game provides. Skill node is insignificant comparing with other 'potential' role play element the game could have provided. The overall content is underwhelming regardless.

amystone

plasticbat said:

1. There is no difference between nodes except you can open one kind of them without using kit.

You also need a different kit to open a different node when it's not for your class, and the sucess chances vary depending if you're proficient with them or not (via your class). And the node you can open freely is linked to your class. These nodes are considered by the game separately, yet as i said they all reward the same content. That was my point, it's a missed opportunity.


2. This game is designed to make you to do the same thing again and again and again. Every week (or even everyday), your character will go through the same route to do the same thing. If you have more characters, you run through the same route even more. The skill nodes are in your route. You know exactly where they are without looking for them. If you spend more effort than the action to open it, you do it wrong (or inefficient).

I personally nearly never do the same thing everyday, i've nearly never done that in MMOs unless it was the only possibility, and that kind of things very rarely happens. When i realize a game wants me to repeat the same things all the time, i just find something else to do untill i have another idea.

And i'm not a noob, i have played over 50k hours of games with a lot of MMOs in the mix.

3. It is up to you to decide if you should take a little time to open it. If it does not worth your effort (just like many other things in the game), there is no point to do it.

What you are saying is ignoring something is better than improving it. That's not how i see things, this is giving up before trying.

4. Same thing applies to random treasure chests in the route.

We could talk about them too, at least content is a bit better fot them in my view, though it doesn't dismiss my point at all, i could consider adding them to the list too even with a different approach to them.

The difference is that there seems to be not much of any specific roleplay attempt with the generic treasure chests. Where skill nodes are of different types, are affected by your class, and require different items to open. And that's what is sad : they look pretty much like specific things, but they have been made generic through their loot output at the very end.


It's like going to an orange tree, to pick oranges. Then going to an apple tree, to find oranges still in your hand.


5. I don't know any real and material role play element this game provides. Skill node is insignificant comparing with other 'potential' role play element the game could have provided. The overall content is underwhelming regardless.

So you say another time that forgetting a problem is better than trying to improve it, and that my topic is neglectible. That's not neglectible to me because these nodes used to be worth it to me for a few reasons, and it wouldn't require much to make them better again.

plasticbat

amystone said:

plasticbat said:

1. There is no difference between nodes except you can open one kind of them without using kit.

You also need a different kit to open a different node when it's not for your class, and the sucess chances vary depending if you're proficient with them or not (via your class). And the node you can open freely is linked to your class. These nodes are considered by the game separately, yet as i said they all reward the same content. That was my point, it's a missed opportunity.

Yes, you need different kit and that is why people keep 4 stacks of skill node for each character.
As far as I know there is no proficient to open the skill node, it is just RNG (except the one belongs to your class).
May be you see them different. I don't.

As far as I know, from mod 3 to now, there was no roleplay aspect in the skill node. If it had that aspect in mod 1 and 2, then I don't know.
Since at least mod 3 (if not earlier), the content among skill nodes has been the same among the skill nodes in the same era except in one mod. In that mod, Stronghold Explorer guild quest needs to open skill node to get some material and arcane node is the only one which does not give any. People complained why arcane was treated differently and occasionally, people still come here to complain about that issue (arcane node is not the same as others).

amystone said:

plasticbat said:

2. This game is designed to make you to do the same thing again and again and again. Every week (or even everyday), your character will go through the same route to do the same thing. If you have more characters, you run through the same route even more. The skill nodes are in your route. You know exactly where they are without looking for them. If you spend more effort than the action to open it, you do it wrong (or inefficient).

I personally nearly never do the same thing everyday, i've nearly never done that in MMOs unless it was the only possibility, and that kind of things very rarely happens. When i realize a game wants me to repeat the same things all the time, i just find something else to do untill i have another idea.

Good for you but it does not change the fact the game make people to do the same thing again, again and again. If you are not doing that for each campaign of this game, I am not sure we are talking about the same game.

I said "Every week (or even everyday), your character will go through the same route to do the same thing."

Do you do any weekly quest?
Do you do 'train' in the new campaign?
Do you do dungeons?
Do you do dragon hunt?
Do you do dragonflight?
...

All of them are doing the same thing again, again and again with the same route.

mintmark

The best thing about skill nodes is that not many people bother with them, so my guild quest doesn't take too long 🙂
The worst thing is that they take so long to respawn.

They are like particularly unimaginative geocaches!

When they had crafting resources you could get some real surprises, like a dragon egg or unified elements.
Maybe adding food items or potions would help?

amystone

plasticbat said:

amystone said:

plasticbat said:

Yes, you need different kit and that is why people keep 4 stacks of skill node for each character.
As far as I know there is no proficient to open the skill node, it is just RNG (except the one belongs to your class).
May be you see them different. I don't.

-> You keep 4 stacks of items. These items are different right ? Else you'd be keeping just one stack So these are different items. Different icons, different use (yes they open a skill node, but not the same one, so the items are different)
Your class has 100% chance to open a corresponding node, others are 75%. It's a difference. And the specificities are different on different classes. Rogue has 100% chance on larceny. Paladin has it for holy nodes. They also have a different appearance. So there are differences between them. The only thing that they have in common is their loot. That's where the problem is.


As far as I know, from mod 3 to now, there was no roleplay aspect in the skill node. If it had that aspect in mod 1 and 2, then I don't know.
Since at least mod 3 (if not earlier), the content among skill nodes has been the same among the skill nodes in the same era except in one mod. In that mod, Stronghold Explorer guild quest needs to open skill node to get some material and arcane node is the only one which does not give any. People complained why arcane was treated differently and occasionally, people still come here to complain about that issue (arcane node is not the same as others).

-> People find out it's noon from their own clock. People complained because they felt left behind, not because there is a difference. It depends on the difference there is : if everything has an interest, then most people would be ok with the variety it provides.

Like : you choose a class for each character. Would you prefer if there was a single class out of all of them picked randomly ? No beause variety and choice is the base of most successful games, especially RPGs.

amystone said:

plasticbat said:

Good for you but it does not change the fact the game make people to do the same thing again, again and again. If you are not doing that for each campaign of this game, I am not sure we are talking about the same game.

I said "Every week (or even everyday), your character will go through the same route to do the same thing."

Do you do any weekly quest?
Do you do 'train' in the new campaign?
Do you do dungeons?
Do you do dragon hunt?
Do you do dragonflight?
...

All of them are doing the same thing again, again and again with the same route.

-> answer
I do the weekly quests rarely, not every week, when i feel like it and when i think i need it.
I only do campaigns to the minimum, and if there is just one way to get around decent gear without them, i just don't do them. Or when i feel like it can do a small session.
If i really need a campaign but i don't want to play it, i either save ads or buy the campaign token directly.
I do dungeons but i don't spam them, and i nearly never play the same one twice in a row. I don't even play random dungeons each time i play.
I tried dragon hunts, but they have no difficulty and they take too long. And some better gear can be found elsewhere. So i don't play it.
I know dragonflight but i stopped farming it. I'm not even in a guild because i dislike manipulation, job-like attitudes, job-like management and drama. After many years playing i mostly play solo and i like it a lot. So i play with others when i want and not because it is required from a fake boss. A recent good reward from dragonflight is the draconic essence artifact. Well, it's available on AH, bought mine for 150k ads. Took me a few hours to get without any guild.

I often have my own way to get my fun, and the game rarely has figured it out in its design. I even have fun just doing things otherwise than the design sometimes.

I also play several games at the same time and pick up the one i feel like playing. I also play solo in other games. I often help newbies and PUG when i can.

And sometimes when i'm bored i just stop playing it untill something new comes out in that game.

Sometimes i have friends to play with, sometimes many, sometimes i don't have any. And it's ok to me.

It is possible we don't feel like playing the same game indeed, but in fact we do. It's a matter of how you view things, tastes, life experiences and so on.

rockster

plasticbat said:

hadestemplar#9918 said:

care to share how they are usefull? Or what other play style can be apply on skill nodes? I mean do you peform some sort dance ceremony or etc before using using skill nodes??

For last 500x times I do used tools/skill nodes, all I get black pearl.

Black pearl provide refine points. Not much help here considering having over 20 mil refine poitns with toons.

Sell to vendor? having couple thousand gold, not much of help there either..

So, any ideas how they are usefull?

I already mentioned it provides insignia for insignia powder. I don't know why all you get is black pearl though. When did you do your 500x times? Of course, insignia powder may not be useful to you too if you have everything upgraded to max.

I have just open one skill node (the first one of the day).

Wow, a whole 2 dust. Don't spend it all at once. xD

rockster

They used to have useful things in them, but I now forget what they were. Were they mops or low level enchants, I think they were rank 5s? Can't remember anymore but at least they used to have something which made u happy, made a difference to ur game/was helpful and u could use. I remember when elemental evil came out and we used to do the seed quest every day, those ones scattered around the maps had something good in them. Now it's meh why bother. This is an ongoing problem with the entire game tbh and not just a skill kits issue, it's drops in chests etc. Things you have dropping generally throughout the entire game are lackluster and extremely stingy with the occasional ok thing thrown-in once in a blue moon. If you looked back to find all the posts in here about players complaining about rubbish drops from chests and the like, I'm sure it would number in the thousands. I've seen so many. Skill kits are just one more version of this problem. Devs don't care much about the players or they would give them something better and make an effort to fix the issue, but they just ignore it which equals ignoring the players.

plasticbat

rockster#6227 said:

They used to have useful things in them, but I now forget what they were. Were they mops or low level enchants, I think they were rank 5s? Can't remember anymore but at least they used to have something which made u happy, made a difference to ur game/was helpful and u could use. I remember when elemental evil came out and we used to do the seed quest every day, those ones scattered around the maps had something good in them. Now it's meh why bother. This is an ongoing problem with the entire game tbh and not just a skill kits issue, it's drops in chests etc. Things you have dropping generally throughout the entire game are lackluster and extremely stingy with the occasional ok thing thrown-in once in a blue moon. If you looked back to find all the posts in here about players complaining about rubbish drops from chests and the like, I'm sure it would number in the thousands. I've seen so many. Skill kits are just one more version of this problem. Devs don't care much about the players or they would give them something better and make an effort to fix the issue, but they just ignore it which equals ignoring the players.

One of the items from skill node in the past was RP (of course, still available today). That was the time, RP was not as easy to get as these years. RP item could be sold in much higher price and that was a 'bigger' thing. There were profession items too but not as 'worthy' as RP back then. RP worth enough that people created bots just to farm skill node (a single skill node) 24 x 7. It was a 'big deal' when Cryptic decided to remove RP from skill node to combat bots (they put back RP later). The 'replacement' reward for RP was bound insignia.

rockster

Black pearls drop like candy on the ground. To have them inside skill kits is insulting.

rockster

well let me clarify... to have them as the main drop from skill kits is insulting.

greywynd

They never increased/up valued the drops. They just removed the obsolete stuff and replaced with new stuff (insignia).

strathkin

plasticbat said:

I like Sweetberries, yet miss the Elven Bread that used to drop in Skill nodes:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Elven_bread

Can't find an image of those, yet do recall there were some others that used to drop; which no longer do...

ksell

At some point all treasure drops were streamlined; u can see diffrent rewards from nodes in leveling zones if u really want alternative

AI quest used to be viable source of those, but now mimic sleeps

trinity706

Back in the old days PC players (not all) botted the H-E-L-L out of skill nodes and instead of taking the high road by putting forth considerable effort against bots that helped spare the rest of the players, the developers eventually opted to take the easy way out and strangle the entire player base by limiting/binding items from skill nodes thus the current state of skill nodes.

Bots seem to be a intentionally left alone scapegoat to justify player base limiting changes.

If things are added to skill nodes it will probably be so limited/bound that the potential benefit to players that don't bot is reduced/non-existent.

plasticbat

trinity706#8838 said:

Back in the old days PC players (not all) botted the H-E-L-L out of skill nodes and instead of taking the high road by putting forth considerable effort against bots that helped spare the rest of the players, the developers eventually opted to take the easy way out and strangle the entire player base by limiting/binding items from skill nodes thus the current state of skill nodes.

Bots seem to be a intentionally left alone scapegoat to justify player base limiting changes.

If things are added to skill nodes it will probably be so limited/bound that the potential benefit to players that don't bot is reduced/non-existent.

In the first phase of skill node nerf "to go against bot", what they nerfed was RP. They removed RP (the very same thing people does not like today). People complained why they got rid of RP. They protested it should be done by making those RP bound instead. They were not happy that RP was removed from skill node. The article is still available in that defuncted NW fan web site.

trinity706

plasticbat said:

In the first phase of skill node nerf "to go against bot", what they nerfed was RP. They removed RP (the very same thing people does not like today). People complained why they got rid of RP. They protested it should be done by making those RP bound instead. They were not happy that RP was removed from skill node. The article is still available in that defuncted NW fan web site.

nwo-uncensored?

What is amazing is that making RP bound would have essentially solved the problem though they opted to take RP out first instead which was quite overbearing.

Personally still wonder why anti-bot changes were always pushed to console Neverwinter when the problem does not really exist there, though when looking how quickly the player base in the past is opted to be hamstringed rather than less overbearing measures, an answer is kinda already there…