Question to guild leaders re: your policy toward kill-stealing

crow

Dude, people in this thread accuse others of stealing. It literally is in the topic.
Yes, let's hear it again: accuse others of stealing.

And yet here you are, trying to claim words like manners and decency to prove your point, with your point being to justify the above? Tbh, that's pretty messed up.

greywynd

No. Messed up is, as I said before, jumping into a fight that someone else already started so that you can get yours and screw them.

tchefi

hustin1 said:

Tonight I had some rogue jump into my fight, pop a daily, and steal my kills for perhaps the hundredth time since I started playing.

As @greywynd mentionned, this kind of situation is largely related to good/neutral/bad gestures (i help you/i didn't see you/me first and I don't care you arrived before), and how those gestures can be perceived at the instant and the seconds that follow (because you can always try to interact with the other player and demine any possible misunderstanding).

hustin1 said:

As a guild leader it got me thinking about an appropriate policy toward players who are toxic in this manner. My policy is the first time you get a warning, and the next time you're terminated.

We can put aside any roleplaying aspects, mostly because true RP is (unfortunately) largely dead nowdays on MMORPGs. So it's player's true colors rather than in character flavors that we see on Neverwinter.

Is the ownership of a kill, as something that can be stolen, truly a thing ?
Personnally, i'm from the school of "I don't really care" ^^, and condescendingly pity any player who "steal" my kill(s)/spot/interactible object.

But what "rules" are defining ownership of a kill (knowing we can't count on the common sense as it is either not as common as we want/expect or it is willingly ignored :P) ?

When do we acquire the ownership of a kill/interactible object ? After heading toward it, by being the closest to it, after getting the aggro, after the first hit, after starting to clean the prerequisite [enemies farm to make a T0 preys appear, pack of enemies in the vicinity of the interactible object [ex : idols/statuettes in Soshenstar/Omu]), etc ?

As a dps without healing spells, are we disallowed to help someone who has supposedly the ownership on kills and let him potentially die ? If we can help, what are the conditions ? When low health ? When the fight is too long ? After he has pop a health potion and still doesn't seem to win ?

So much questions ^^.

@crow In reality, it is not very different from the RL driving behavior... Imagine a country where there are no road rule/law (India can in practice be close to that for exemple xD) but all the usual signs/marks anyway, is the driver who "steals" (quotemark, as no road rule/law) priority from the pedestrian engaged on a crosswalk can still be considered as a HAMSTER ?

crow

You see, the premise of this thread is not what greywynd wants it to be, namely to be nice to each other. I wish it would.

Instead, this thread is about one player who rants about all those supposedly terrible things that keep happening to him. About one player who likes to to label others as toxic, insult them as little HAMSTER, in essence a player who likes to demonize others, as they obviously don't play the game by the rules he made up. It is about one player who doesn't realize that his language transpires how incredibly entitled he feels, even so much that he does not refrain from fabricating a story of theft, where in the center he presents himself, of course, as victim.

Does all of that remind you of somebody? Like in real life, in the game you want to stay very far from such people.


.... shaking off the above ....
You play NW, you occasionally compete for mobs, that's just how it is. You get frustrated, move on, do another quest, come back later, come back with friends, there are so many things you can do. After all you want to play, don't you?

greywynd

You also don't want to be that person, do you?

hustin1

Crow clearly doesn't care who he screws over. I'm beginning to wonder if he's a PvP freak (only because in nine years of playing NW the most toxic players I've encountered in **PvE** have ALL been in PvP guilds). "Get over it, just go after another mob," he says. He sounds like the kind of guy who would cut you off and almost run into you at the gas station just so he could be first.

By the way, let me clarify this for even the very dense: stealing kill credit is when you go after enemies that someone has already engaged and kill them so quickly that the PERSON WHO ENGAGED THEM BEFORE YOU DOESN'T GET CREDIT. There. Now even the people in the cheap seats can understand.

tchefi

hustin1 said:

Crow clearly doesn't care who he screws over. I'm beginning to wonder if he's a PvP freak (only because in nine years of playing NW the most toxic players I've encountered in **PvE** have ALL been in PvP guilds).

That's an interesting take ^^.
The "still kill credit" situations you have experienced (and honestly probably all of us has experienced) is one of the very few reasons I personnally regret Neverwinter doesn't allow full open PvP "in the wild", even though i'm far from being a fan of PvP ^^ (and understand how pvp "in the wild" can be frustrating).
If someone is such in a hurry he has to "aggressively compete" for mobs and "steal" kill credits from others, then I want to be able to chase and battle him in PvP right on the spot, without him being able to denied the fight (other than by disconnecting), and even if I'm doomed to be swept. And then come back and fight him again and again. Make him loose his time. Up to the extremism of organizing a "wanted : dead or alive" retaliation hunt during weeks, embarking relations and hiring mercenaries in the harassing fun until the lesson is learnt ^^.

:P

greywynd

Even if they disconnect, they would still be on the server for a short time. Long enough that when they log back in, it would be at a campfire and not where they were standing.

jules

"Dirty flower thief I will report u to your guild leader"

crow

The sad story continues...so I'll try one last take on this. (alb22 = crow)
Dear creator of this thread, I have highlighted how your actions can be described.

This thread is about one player who rants about all those supposedly terrible things that keep happening to him. About one player who likes to to label others as toxic, likes to insult them as little HAMSTER, in essence a player who likes to demonize others,as they obviously don't play the game by the rules he made up. It is about one player who doesn't realize that his language transpires how incredibly entitled he feels, even so much that he does not refrain from fabricating a story of theft, where in the center he presents himself, of course, as victim. But not enough. The creator of this thread, further wants to make believe that: by disagreeing with him, you don't care, and in general like to screw over others. Which again are more insults. Why does this exist, why is the creator of this thread taking a public dump into the forum? Sometimes the most obvious reason is the only one left: because he didn't get what he wanted and it's everybody else's fault.

Ask yourself, is there something more selfish than all of that?

If you start insulting people, waving a flag that has "i am entitled" written all over it, one of the most likely outcome is, that they will absolutely justified ask you to turn around and walk away.

greywynd

...and leave out the actions of the person or persons creating the grief in the first place.

crow

You cannot help a man who feels robbed of something he didn't own.
His grief is self-induced, and the cause most likely is replaceable.

jana

I am kind of confused here, I appreciate it a lot if someone rides by and sees me struggling and stops to help. Ditto I rarely ride past someone getting hit without stopping to help. I do know that credit for kills gets taken from me if anyone else hits it but that is just how it is for a sunelf wizard. Now I am going to be wondering if I should stop and help anyone or am I going to be hurting them. I ended up skipping Sharandar after trying to get their for almost a year, dying got boring and I just went to Dragon Vale and finished there. Ill go back there when I am finally maxed out in stats and ratings etc etc.

crow

hustin1 said:

Crow clearly doesn't care who he screws over... yap yap

A sorry excuse of an insult - and of course a lie. But you like making those up, it's how you get your things done.
You see, I just don't care specifically about you .

crow

jana#2651 said:

I am kind of confused here, I appreciate it a lot if someone rides by and sees me struggling and stops to help. Ditto I rarely ride past someone getting hit without stopping to help. I do know that credit for kills gets taken from me if anyone else hits it but that is just how it is for a sunelf wizard. Now I am going to be wondering if I should stop and help anyone or am I going to be hurting them. ..

Maybe hustin the justin and his fine friends can make up some rules for you. They will lay out in detail when and how exactly you are allowed to have fun. They really would love that!

But seriously, play how you like, NW is an rpg, a game. Any way that is fun to you and gives you joy is the right way.

greywynd

crow#2304 said:

But seriously, play how you like, NW is an rpg, a game. Any way that is fun to you and gives you joy is the right way.

...even if it causes grief to another.

The devs did ask for opinions on which quests were griefable. You know, like in old Sharandar when you had to restore the vital sap to the trees to save the dryads. One person would engage the mobs around the trees and some HAMSTER would come along and patch up the tree, and the person stuck fighting the mob got no credit for the tree.

hustin1

jana#2651 said:

I am kind of confused here, I appreciate it a lot if someone rides by and sees me struggling and stops to help. Ditto I rarely ride past someone getting hit without stopping to help. I do know that credit for kills gets taken from me if anyone else hits it but that is just how it is for a sunelf wizard. Now I am going to be wondering if I should stop and help anyone or am I going to be hurting them. I ended up skipping Sharandar after trying to get their for almost a year, dying got boring and I just went to Dragon Vale and finished there. Ill go back there when I am finally maxed out in stats and ratings etc etc.

I stay out of other people's fights for precisely this reason. Some ultra-dps jerk has prevented me from getting kill credit for an encounter I engaged in first way too many times, when I didn't need any help. It happens by far the most when I'm playing a healer cleric -- it might take me longer to kill stuff but I can heal myself! I'll throw someone some heals if it looks like they're in trouble (and revive them if they drop) but that's it.

It's gotten so bad when I play a cleric that I have to pop dailies to kill things -- not because I need to, but solely to kill things fast enough that someone -- usually a rogue -- can't rush in from behind and prevent me from getting kill credit.