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Wizard VERY LOW DPS in Dungeon/Advanced Dungeon/Epic Trial, scaled and nerfed badly in the Game

ivansoong#2073 ivansoong Member Posts: 20 Arc User
edited April 19 in The Library



Please take note of the recent dungeon run with exact TWO identical ROUGUES (ASSASINS) in the screenshot above as proof. All of us almost have the same offensive stats and high item levels (I have the highest item level). I lunged forward and attack as many times as possible but if you notice even a rougue named Dinus joined the game late during at Arcturia boss fight in the Lair of Mad Mage, he can easily outperform me with almost double of the accumulated damages. WHERE IS THE FAIRNESS? I noticed a Wizard can never double the damages like rogues regardless of item level. Even, a warlock can outperform a Wizard in the dungeon/trial runs.

I am a new player who started as a wizard in mod22 for the first time. I thought it would be exciting, powerful and valuable in the combat, but the new updates proved otherwise. There were twice that a tank named Johnathan or Joohnatan, not sure of the spelling hinted at 'low DPS'. I am not sure if it is implicitly directed at other DPS groups or me. Well, I cannot disagree with what he said. I was aware the character was scaled with compensated higher power a few patches back. Now, it does not change to compensate for scaling properly, which renders the dungeon/trial runs unplayable, frustrating and embarrassing. I understand it is scaled to enrich the gameplay, but in my humble opinion, the technical did the release quite rushing without testing properly. I can't disagree with what he said 'low DPS, especially what I heard the Wizard nerfed terribly, which that considered as lowest rank in the game system. I think this is not fair to some classes. I tried to play with all mage DPS, especially in the tomb of nine gods fighting Ras Nsi. There were no chances at all, which is agreeable with some others who claimed that it took an hour now to finish with all mage group compared to last time just 30 minutes. Sometimes, the Rogue/Warlock can double the damages on the top list, which is impossible for me to do even with high power and critical severity. I cannot blame the tanker Johnathan for saying that because he can even match the score of other DPS players' initial starting of the game and sometimes outpaced the third DPS player. I am disappointed too when they often like to give up early to abandon the game without a second try which is possible when I play with other supporting players. I still find it absurd to nerf the Wizard classes terribly in the new MOD22. I found out even a bard, ranger, tanker and barbarian can be outpaced sometimes, although I took the initiative to lunge forward to attack as many as possible to no avail to match their DPS. What is the use of investing so many enhancements with real currency when I cannot even assist them instead of being jeered at or backfired with a 'low DPS' claim? My question is, how am I tweaking on my side? It is impossible to upgrade my offensive stats to 80%-90%, but some other classes can do that at least to two offensive stats. Are my awful states power 80% and critical severity 76% just for show only when the damage outputs do not reflect the high damages?

I hope the developer can explain the solutions, or it is an adjustment needed from your side. It demotivated my character as a mage to show as a supermodel in the game instead of being a helpful combatant. If the problems persist, I am done with the mage or, even worst, with your game Neverwinter. Customer feedbacks are essential to reducing churn rates. I do hope you can resolve these issues as I read the blogs, comments or even on the Internet that my claims are not a fallacy but facts. I am sure Neverwinter will lose out a lot of fanbases if the problems voiced out remain unresolved. As a teenager, I have liked Neverwinter since, especially Neverwinter Nights 1, 2 and even other D&D Baldur's Gate. Please do not disappoint me, and I place high hopes in Neverwinter since it started almost a decade ago. Thank you for your kind consideration to read and assist my plea.
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Comments

  • mrimsogoodmrimsogood Member Posts: 147 Arc User
    Well I can easily tell you why you got out DPS'd, you're badly geared
    You're stats are awful
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,662 Arc User
    Warlocks and Rogues are performing higher than the rest, with Clerics also pulling ahead of the pack. But in endgame content, like Crown of Kel, all the rest of the dps classes are about the same dps, each with their own strengths. A lot of one's damage unfortunately does come from gear, but not just high item level gear. One such item which can drastically increase your damage, can be a large portion of one's damage (of course I'm talking about the Band of Air Ring from VoS), and rogues and warlocks benefit the most from that item due to the attack speed.
  • silente07#2597 silente07 Member Posts: 389 Arc User
    His stats are the average normal stats the majority of players have. He said he started in Mod22 and it’s a grind just to find info on how to play as it is playing.
    Wizards do suck right now and it’s sad.
    Yeah, he’s not endgame, he followed what the game told him and used what it gave him.
    Even if his stats were better CW perform below the norm of most other classes.
  • d4rkh0rs3d4rkh0rs3 Member Posts: 382 Arc User
    I can help you on PC if you're interested, @d4rkh0rs3. Ignoring the gear/stats and simply judging by the Encounters on your tray in the second screenshot of the Trobriand fight, it appears you may benefit from guidance on how to both tune your character and optimize your playstyle to output more damage.
  • badnickname#3262 badnickname Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    One of the problems is game design centered around new players.
    For new player game offers high item level gear with terrible bonuses and stats. This gear just boosts your IL, but not helping at all to balance your stats. It’s their idea to brings new players to endgame content which makes more bad than good. To new player game tells: „Hey, there is legendary high-level gear, wear it, you will be awesome and able to do any content. Another player with some old gear beats you in paingiver? Oooh, too bad. But hey, just spend some zen and make your mythic enchantments. Still bad? Oh… maybe battle pass?”

    With this gear it’s impossible to have good stats, it just looks shiny. Your goal is to have almost all offensive stats capped in combat. To achieve this, you need some specific items, for example Ribcage and Goristo helmet (i suggest you to get the helmet, it will help you with crit).

    Second case is your build and powers you using. I can’t see feats, but you using wrong powers.
    You should have at least two builds, one for single target and second for AoE.

    I’m playing paladin and wizard and i saw a lot of dps with high item level and miserable damage, not only wizards. As wizard I can tell you that our AoE damage sucks in comparison to hr, tr it's true. In single target wizard is not bad but as I said earlier, you need to have proper items, companions, BUILD and balanced stats. And it’s not like the others sometimes says that Band of Air plays for you. I have it and believe me, it’s not. Bad player with Band of Air will remain bad player.

    Someone posted wizard guide not long time ago. You can check it and at least set up your powers.
  • luffyhaki123luffyhaki123 Member Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited May 16
    Yes the wizard is pretty weak compared to the other classes in dps, if anyone trys to tell you they are not have no idea how the class works or the game when it comes to the classes in dps. I think they are next up anyways for a buff.

    but you can still get better gear and use the right skills plus build to be even stronger. but you will not be stronger then the other classes in dps, unless you have band of air and they dont, you still dont out dps the other classes by much
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,662 Arc User

    Yes the wizard is pretty weak compared to the other classes in dps, if anyone trys to tell you they are not have no idea how the class works or the game when it comes to the classes in dps. I think they are next up anyways for a buff.

    but you can still get better gear and use the right skills plus build to be even stronger. but you will not be stronger then the other classes in dps, unless you have band of air and they dont, you still dont out dps the other classes by much

    Yes they are next up for a buff, after Bard DPS (~650k dps on Crown). However average Crown of Kel runs show that Wizard (~750k dps) is not far behind Rangers, Fighters, and Barbarians (~775k dps) With Clerics (~800k dps), Warlocks (~950k dps) and Rogues (1mil+ DPS) taking the lead.

    This is endgame content, Wizards are just as viable and capable as most DPS. While sure they are towards the bottom and could use some buffs, they really are not that far away from the majority as people make it out to be.
  • bifflincultebifflinculte Member Posts: 206 Arc User
    Wizards have many problems, not only because of a lack of damage potential but mainly because of an odd class design.

    1) control spells: they are far too many, cold spells should be favored control spells. They should have lower magnitudes/dps than pure damaging spells.

    2) aoe: wizard has no aoe encounters at lower levels. However there are too many aoe dailies. Too little aoe at-wills (all classes have half st, half aoe) and bad spell design, except for chilling cloud but which is only aoe for 1/3 hits.

    3) Spell mastery: st spells that become aoe on mastery should keep the st magnitude on main target. On mastery, spells should have more side effects besides the +10% buff. Ex: larger aoe radius.

    4) at-will spells need complete rework, with half st and half aoe, better mechanics (eruption and storm pillar are terrible), additional effects…

    5) Removal of non-sense feats: chilling advantage and directed flames in their current form.
  • jana#2651 jana Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    They need to fix this, you can't have a dungeons and dragons based game without Wizards. And nothing should be as ridiculously complicated as that wizard guide, though I sure appreciate it being posted here. I don't think the way they add up the damage dealt, enemies slain etc at the end of the game, is at all accurate either. I have been in many dungeons where I seem to be the only one battling while the rest of the crew is running around picking up loot and I end up with some pretty poor results that makes no sense. Like lowest on enemies slain when no one else was really trying?
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,589 Arc User
    edited June 23

    6) type of magic: there should be fully differentiated kinds of spells for each path, meaning no more common spells for both paths. Arcane+lightning or only arcane for the arcanist, cold+fire for the thaumaturge. Arcane stacking (and therefore arcane presence) should also be specific to the arcanist, while chill stacking (and therefore chilling presence) to the thaumaturge.
    To do that, the wizard would have access to several kinds of magic in early level. Choosing a path would mean replacing spells of the “opposite school” by path specific spells.

    7) arcanist: no more cold spells and more balance between arcane and lightning, or even removal or lightning. 1 more aoe encounter. St build relies too much on Arcane empowerment daily. Need of another st daily. Feats: one entropy related feat (random additional effects like chaos magic, random damage like ss, random combat advantage), the other order related (better arcane stacking, benefits to specific spell rotation).

    8) thaumaturge: half cold and half fire spells, no more bloody arcane spells. Cold spells and chill for control (same as today), fire for pure dps. Complete rework of smolder which is underexploited (too easy to add and ridiculous dps) and bugged (it often stacks with rimefire). Higher importance of smolder mechanics: dr debuff on foes or high dps (feats). Introduction of smolder stacking. 3 possible builds: cold (full control for pvp), fire (full dps) or rimefire (hybrid, synergy between of smolder stacking and chill stacking, useful for party survivability).
    9) thaumaturge (bis): rework of Fanning the flame, this encounter is too weak and too complicated to use. It should be a potent st spell with good additional damage on nearby minions, as it was before mod 16.

    I disagree that wizard's have too many Control abilities, and wouldn't want to see Lightning removed either!

    Arcane Wizard's don't really have much control at all, as Icy Terran doesn't instant freeze enemy as fast as it does with Thaumaturge Feat. So they need something else to control, which is steel time, or Arcane Tempest; yet both are a bit lack-luster as well! :(

    I'd rather they not change Thaumaturge powers too much, despite they have 4 Ice/Chill related encounters. I agree it should be more about Fire/Chill based for Thaumaturge, or Arcane & Lighting for the other. Still that would take more work, and since Arcane has had Icy Terran forever, I'd be shocked they replaced it for Arcane. It's not bad for Arcane, just needs to work better with Steal Time, or being enhanced a bit, same with Arcane Tempest!

    Damage is out of league with other classes, still both need attention; and Arcane need's more work than Thauma!

    Please take note of the recent dungeon run with exact TWO identical ROUGUES (ASSASINS) in the screenshot above as proof...

    I am a new player who started as a wizard in mod22 for the first time... My question is, how am I tweaking on my side? It is impossible to upgrade my offensive stats to 80%-90%, but some other classes can do that at least to two offensive stats. Are my awful states power 80% and critical severity 76% just for show only when the damage outputs do not reflect the high damages?

    I hope the developer can explain the solutions, or it is an adjustment needed from your side. It demotivated my character as a mage to show as a supermodel in the game instead of being a helpful combatant.

    Most Arcane put Icy Terrain into Mastery slot, and Disintegrate is generally good to use, and usually finds it's place on most people power tray, except in rare situations.

    https://www.mmorpgtips.com/neverwinter-wizard-arcanist-build/

    Of course all things relative... ...just depends how they approach it, or how they want to make each style more unique.

    That's my two cents worth. o:)
    Post edited by strathkin on
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,589 Arc User
    edited July 2
    In this weeks livestream speaking that Wizard next to be reviewed, what I was surprised almost found laughable, was when the DEV stated that Thaumaturge needed more attention? I'd say to him run an Ancient Dragon Hunt with sub-optimal Thauma Class powers, and not even Thauma's best Encounter Powers and it easily beat's all of Arcane BEST by 2-3m easily as I've shown below! I'd only widen the GAP if I used the best Encounters for Thaumaturge. :(

    They need to focus on improving Arcane Feats, &/or Arcane specific Class powers, or even further boost Arcane Magnitude even more than suggested below!

    My Reply:
    Background: Revisions after more runs June 10th-15th, I'd recommend as starting point... ...'they claimed' Thaumaturge is hurting more, yet I disagree. It hurts far more for AoE powers, than Single Target so that is my focus mostly. I'll show why later.

    Arcane Wizard
    ♦ Steel Time stuns to last +15% longer, and be +7 Magnitude though!
    ♦ Lightning Bolt previously nerfed too harshly, should see +10 Magnitude boost, counterpart Fanning the Flame.
    ♦ Arcane Tempest could be buffed by +7 Magnitude as well, as small node to Arcanists.
    ╘ is same as Conduit of Ice for Thaumaturge!
    ♦ Ray of Enfeeblement doesn't need a Magnitude buff,
    ╘ yet could reduce outgoing damage from -10% to -12.5% at least.
    ╘ both the debuff needs to CONFIRM it's 10s, same with it's Mastery benefit -- see Bugs*

    Only Thaumaturge feat's add's more Chill stacks while having 3 more Ice (Chill) Encounters, so Arcane Feat's need a bit more work; if not they need to further increase Magnitude Damage. Likely suggestion is Orb of Imposition, yet it's available to both; so wiser to boost Storm Spell.

    Note: Someone also reported Ray of Enfeeblement only last 5 seconds, not 10 seconds for Mastery effect; I'd want them to check the debuff last 10s as it should; both are likely only 5 seconds! :(

    Arcane should start with +24 Magnitude Damage which is small but adds up, yet both Wizard's don't compare to Rogue, Warlock, or other DPS Classes! Still these are small suggestions to test, and think Arcane powers may be buffed further especially if they don't improve Class powers or Feats!

    Thauma is still leader in DPS, and suspect that will remain:
    https://www.mmorpgtips.com/neverwinter-wizard-arcanist-build/
    https://www.mmorpgtips.com/neverwinter-wizard-thaumaturge-build/

    Thaumaturge Wizard
    ♦ Fanning the Flame could also be boosted by +12.5 as starting point, up from 100 Magnitude.
    ╘ Fireball is recommended in Mastery, while more powerful -- it doesn't render FX -- see Bugs*
    ♦ Conduit of Ice should receive buff of 7.5 Magnitude as well.
    ♦ Ray of Enfeeblement doesn't need a Magnitude buff,
    ╘ yet could reduce outgoing damage from -10% to -12.5% at least.
    ╘ both the debuff needs to CONFIRM it's 10s, same with it's Mastery benefit -- see Bugs*

    Thaumaturge be overall of +20 Magnitude Damage these be good starting points only!

    I still find Thaumaturge not nearly as bad as everyone claims, I know Arcane since M16 has always been behind Thauma Wizard's in DPS. So in this test I used ALL the recommended Arcane abilities & Class powers for Arcane per the Guide yet omitted Repel in both cases so Chilling Presence was used as class power in both cases. For Thaumaturge however, I used the less popular Fanning the Flame rather than Fireball in Mastery, and it still beat Arcane time by 2 minutes and several seconds! I might have further increased the victory to 3-4 minutes faster had I used Crit Conflagration & Swath of Destruction together; that doesn't include Fireball in Mastery! Everything was same gear, potions, enchantments, etc...

    Note: Both -Young Green Dragons - above shown in image above.

    3rd run, I gave Thauma a more ideal Class power: kept Chilling Presence, & Critical Conflagration.
    ╘ That reduced time to 12m 52s. Thauma best DPS is Critical Conflagration & Swath of Destruction.

    Had I used Fireball I'd likely shave another 2 minutes, or far more off the time; especially with it's 2 best class powers too!

    ――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――
    https://twitch.tv/videos/1497519296
    Still the one BUG that sticks out is with Thaumaturge Fireball it never renders the Fireball, you only can screenshot it just as it arrives at the target if you extremely lucky, so most only see the Flames that burn the enemy afterward by the vast majority, not the Fireball itself!
    ――――――――――――――――――――

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1265340/known-wizard-bugs

    Known BUGS I'm aware of:
    So Fireball FX has been broken a LONG time, and needs rework to make it more visible for sure!


    There's 2 problematic BUGs, and now one introduced since M23 dropped here:
    https://account.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1265327/thaumaturge-missing-fx-for-fireball-it-seems
    &
    https://account.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1265342/ray-of-enfeeblement-duration-bug

    https://account.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1265378/wizard-ice-knife-not-shown-since-m23-june-14th-in-dragon-hunts
    Post edited by strathkin on
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,589 Arc User
    edited June 30

    ravenmadd said:

    Great job not listening to people who actually know how to play CW... MM is so sluggish I went from doing 13 encounters to 8 on daily / arti calls. animation locked so cant dodge as easy as you could with ray of frost.. doing less damage then before the changes now in ST. Only good thing is FB being almost instant cast, but with a 12 second hard CD on smolder ect how do you really expect to keep up with TR getting 3 encounts ( at 3x magnitude of FB ) ? FB hitting for 3300 at 59k IL with 90x4 ratings cant proc bonedevils. This rework is a absolute fail. After seeing how bad of a job the DEV's have done on a CW rework, it's no wonder the player base is diminishing more and more each day.


    I agree what you said. Look at the screenshot below as proof. I am the Wizard (Ivanus) with almost the same stats and almost the same item level with the two other identical rogues (assassins). Even Dinus the other rogue joined the game late after/at the boss fight Arcturia in the Lair of Mad Mage can easily outperform me with almost double of the accumulated damages (refer to the picture below as proof). Even a Warlock can easily outperform me as Wizard in the dungeon/epic trial runs. WHERE IS THE FAIRNESS? What is the point spending many AD, Zen and real currency when you are just a supermodel in the game? I am done with the mage or worst with the game, Neverwinter if there are no corrections with updates in the near future. I agree with you they will lose out a lot of fanbase if there are no amendment in the future. Embarrassed, frustrated and disappointed sometimes. I am tired of being jeered, hinted or labeled as 'low DPS' that caused the dungeon/epic trial runs unable to be completed successfully. It is not I do not put in effort to play the game as I always lunged forward to attack the enemies as many as possible but no avail to produce the high damages. The other players do not understand the difficulty of our build as the wizard that unable to produce so many damages like a rogue regardless of item level in the dungeon/epic trial runs and it is nerfed and scaled so badly until it is the lowest DPS class in the system. Hope the developer WILL listen to us. Else, I guess churn rate will be high. Developer PLEASE kindly do something. It was no fun when other players hated you for no reasons that do not understand it is not my problems/playing styles but in fact the low DPS produced that unable assist them to win the game. Thank you for your kind attention!


    I found this in a similar Wizard thread in the Library here:
    https://forum.arcgames.com/neverwinter/discussion/1262889/wizard-changes
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1265340/known-wizard-bugs

    So hope they improve Arcanist & Thaumaturge Wizard's, both are hurting more than Rogue, Warlock or other DPS classes. I suggested a few enhancements above, only as a starting point to improve both... ...not as the END state either.

    Still Arcane needs more DPS boost than Thaumaturge, in addition to more control!
    Post edited by strathkin on
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,589 Arc User
    edited July 2
    Also added a new Wizard BUG above as well, and I was testing AoE powers mostly as that is where the biggest difference is between Arcane & Thaumaturge. It's actually far closer for Single Target, yet most should realize I'm using AoE not Single Target abilities mostly!
    Post edited by strathkin on
  • autylautyl Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    Since all the changes they made in this game in the last couple of 10 years as also the replacement of many devs give me the feeling they lost control.

    The same as on control wizard. It is a control class but with all those single skills they not control that much anymore and the damage is poor. It is strange that in every new mod there is always a class that is the best damage dealer. If i remember good once the GWF was a good one as also the ranger and the CW. Even when the paladin came in this game he was good also almost immortal :). The tr was and is always a high damage dealer( if you play it well).

    I have the feeling they made changes but they not trying out ( the devs i mean, do they have any idea what it does if it works with other spell, gear etc) when they load it into the game. And it seems they don't listen when people tell in the forum what is not working. And believe me there are a lot of bugs not only on the control wizard spells but on other spells on different classes, gear, environment, companions, mounts etc. Pity that the devs don't read the forum more often. So i really hope that there is a bright person in the control room that start to repair or clean up those bugs. Make this game stable and more balanced than it is now.
    And Ivanus you are doing good for a new player.
  • account#4846 account Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    strathkin said:



    Note: Both -Young Green Dragons - above shown in image above.

    3rd run, I gave Thauma a more ideal Class power: kept Chilling Presence, & Critical Conflagration.
    ╘ That reduced time to 12m 52s. Thauma best DPS is Critical Conflagration & Swath of Destruction.

    Had I used Fireball I'd likely shave another 2 minutes, or far more off the time; especially with it's 2 best class powers too!

    I don't know what is wrong with you people....
    My cw. 36k arcanist. I don't even have an epic artifact....
    The same green dragon




  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,589 Arc User
    edited July 5
    @account#4846
    I realized now I didn't say I was using a Hybrid 2 AoE / 2 Single Target, so I clarified. The fact is that at 35k your likely far closer to 80% power buff, while I'm at 57k likely have 71.7% or 71.2% depending if Thaumaturge, or Arcanist! I wasn't ready to be questioned, and I need more time to test & then explain it properly!

    @strathkin you said and even noted on image that it was young dragon.
    Second thing, your encounters setup for Arcanist on Single Target is completely wrong.
    Icy terrain isn't good choice in single target fights, especially when boss is moving.
    You should use Ray of Enfeeblement on maestry, only then it gives you 10% damage bonus. You also excluded Repel. It has very low cooldown and high magnitude, it's must have on single target setup. Also Entangling force should be used here, it's pretty solid. Disintegration is also must have, so only one encounter was in right spot. This what you showed it's like a tieding up a boxer and beating him with baseball bat. He has no chance same as your Arcanist.

    I also realize now, that I was doing a Hybrid because most of the wider Gap is on AoE. This is where Thaumaturge mostly excels, and the damage gap their is even higher than Arcane. Single Target is narrowed a bit yet still Thaumaturge excels.




    I'm using BEST for Arcane so I originally tried Hybrid 2 AoE / 2 Single Target.

    https://www.mmorpgtips.com/neverwinter-wizard-arcanist-build/
    https://www.mmorpgtips.com/neverwinter-wizard-thaumaturge-build/
    Post edited by strathkin on
  • account#4846 account Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited July 2
    strathkin said:



    Note: Both -Young Green Dragons - above shown in image above.

    LOL :D

    I killed this dragon with modifier, what you can see on screenshot. You haven't done even this. I have 36k, not 52 like you :)))))
    Post edited by account#4846 on
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,589 Arc User
    edited July 5
    Background: Revisions after more runs June 15th to July 1st, I'd recommend as starting point... ...'they claimed' Thaumaturge is hurting more, yet I disagree. I'll show why later.

    Arcane Wizard
    ♦ Steel Time stuns to last +15% longer, and be +5 Magnitude though!
    ♦ Lightning Bolt previously nerfed too harshly, should see +7 Magnitude boost, counterpart Fanning the Flame.
    ♦ Arcane Tempest could be buffed by +7 Magnitude as well, as small node to Arcanists.
    ╘ is same as Conduit of Ice for Thaumaturge!
    ♦ Ray of Enfeeblement doesn't need a Magnitude buff,
    ╘ both the debuff needs to CONFIRM it's 10s, same with it's Mastery benefit -- see Bugs*
    ♦ Disintegrate should be given (slight) buff of +5 Magnitude.

    Only Thaumaturge feat's add's more Chill stacks while having 3 more Ice (Chill) Encounters, so Arcane Feat's need a bit more work to enhance Control! Otherwise a slighly higher magnitude buff above, also the numbers be then +2.5 or +5, or +3.5 or +7, or +5 or +10 it's better to start small then slowly increase.

    Note: Someone also reported Ray of Enfeeblement only last 5 seconds, not 10 seconds for Mastery effect; I'd want them to check debuff last 10s as it should; both are likely only 5 seconds! :(

    Arcane should start with +24 Magnitude Damage or 50% that, and work up. Which is small but adds up, especially as Disintegrate has shorter cooldown! Yet both Wizard's don't compare to Rogue, Warlock, or other DPS Classes! Still these are small suggestions to test, and think Arcane powers may be buffed further especially if they don't improve Class powers slightly!

    Thauma is still leader in DPS, and suspect that will remain:
    https://www.mmorpgtips.com/neverwinter-wizard-arcanist-build/
    https://www.mmorpgtips.com/neverwinter-wizard-thaumaturge-build/

    Thaumaturge Wizard
    ♦ Fanning the Flame could also be boosted by +10 as starting point
    ╘ Fireball is recommended in Mastery, while more powerful -- it doesn't render FX -- see Bugs*
    ♦ Conduit of Ice should receive buff of +7 Magnitude as well.
    ♦ Ray of Enfeeblement doesn't need a Magnitude buff,
    ╘ both the debuff needs to CONFIRM it's 10s, same with it's Mastery benefit -- see Bugs*
    ♦ Fireball should be given (slight) buff of +5.5 Magnitude.

    Thaumaturge be overall of +22.5 Magnitude Damage and start with 50%, and also work up.
    As these be good starting points only!

    Note: Both -Young Green Dragons - shown below; using 2 Single Target, 2 AoE - Hybrid more typical.

    ╘ Thaumaturge has more control cause of Feats, and a wider Gap exists using AoE over Arcane.

    This time, I gave Thaumaturge it's two best class powers Critical Conflagration & Swath of Destruction; yet used Fireball (AoE) rather than Repel. Had I used Repel the time even be further reduced by 45s, 1m or more.


    ╘ still this is all Single Target, which shows the gap is narrowed.

    ――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――
    https://twitch.tv/videos/1497519296
    Still the one BUG that sticks out is with Thaumaturge Fireball it never renders the Fireball, you only can screenshot it just as it arrives at the target if you extremely lucky, so most only see the Flames that burn the enemy afterward by the vast majority, not the Fireball itself!
    ――――――――――――――――――――

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1265340/known-wizard-bugs

    Known BUGS I'm aware of:
    So Fireball FX has been broken a LONG time, and needs rework to make it more visible for sure!


    There's 2 problematic BUGs, and now one introduced since M23 dropped here:
    https://account.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1265327/thaumaturge-missing-fx-for-fireball-it-seems
    &
    https://account.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1265342/ray-of-enfeeblement-duration-bug

    https://account.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1265378/wizard-ice-knife-not-shown-since-m23-june-14th-in-dragon-hunts
    Post edited by strathkin on
  • badnickname#3262 badnickname Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    @strathkin you said and even noted on image that it was young dragon.
    Second thing, your encounters setup for Arcanist on Single Target is completely wrong.
    Icy terrain isn't good choice in single target fights, especially when boss is moving.
    You should use Ray of Enfeeblement on maestry, only then it gives you 10% damage bonus. You also excluded Repel. It has very low cooldown and high magnitude, it's must have on single target setup. Also Entangling force should be used here, it's pretty solid. Disintegration is also must have, so only one encounter was in right spot. This what you showed it's like a tieding up a boxer and beating him with baseball bat. He has no chance same as your Arcanist.
  • muschellka#7783 muschellka Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    Don't compromise yourself any further.
    This is an adult dragon, (without potions).


  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,589 Arc User
    edited July 2
    My point above wasn't to show that I was better, or worse than they were. I only changed my powers cause everyone thought it was Single Target yet it clearly a blend to show the wider gap was AoE. In fact Arcane in my original test I used two Single Target, and 2 AoE. As that is where Thauma really shines more in AoE, yet it's still better at Single Target.

    Both of my earlier test didn't use Master's Zeal, so I didn't do it on my revised test... ...it also doesn't increase Enemy hitpoints either. So aside from taking a bit more damage from minions, it was irrelevant. Sure they got more dragon parts, they also took a small increase in damage verse minions!

    Note: The later test just shows, that with all Single Target the gap is narrowed between Arcane & Thaumaturge; yet I already knew that. So sorry, I forget to mention why I was using Hybrid blend 2 Single Target / 2 AoE because Wizard's in most content excel in AoE.

    @muschellka#7783
    Still I believe Arcane needs a 'slightly' larger boost for magnitude damage, given the results I showed.
    Post edited by strathkin on
  • account#4846 account Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    You're lying and confabulating.
    You edited your post in which you wanted to whitewash yourself by writing the false fact that you were doing an Adult Dragon and I was doing a Young, hence the resulting time difference.
    strathkin said:

    I also clearly stated what powers I was using and why, and it took me 16m to finish an Adult Dragon, maybe you were doing Young and hence half the time! Also the scaling is only 18k or 20k, so item level really makes no difference!

    I don't think you also understand how the modifier works. It did not give me any advantage over you, on the opposite, I had to spend a little more time to kill the mobs because they had more hp. Minimally, but nevertheless, it increased my fighting time.
    Now you are forcefully looking for other excuses.
    None of that, dude. I have even less power than you. Only critcal strike I have more, which is not because I am better scaled, but because I made better choices than you.
    Everything you write is a bunch of nonsense, which is what I wanted to prove.
    Thank you for your attention.


  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,589 Arc User
    edited July 2
    Gosh no! I have a lot of post to review, and edit, that's why I need to refamiliarize. It still doesn''t dispute anything I've said, prior to you and someone else challenging me. Though I still stand by the one post July 1st, Edited 11:41AM.

    The fact is I forget why I used a Hybrid build, and I need more time to ensure things are correct. I also forget why I used Young Dragon, as I've been running Adult now for weeks. Yet I did so mostly as it was faster test, as it's despite for Single Player. Granted you can do a Multi-Player Adult, in Private Queue.

    I needed some time to recall as that was several days ago, if not two weeks. I used a hybrid 2 Single Target, 2 AoE because this is where Thaumaturge really shines, as often it's not just a single enemy!

    You're lying and confabulating.
    You edited your post in which you wanted to whitewash yourself by writing the false fact that you were doing an Adult Dragon and I was doing a Young, hence the resulting time difference.

    strathkin said:

    I also clearly stated what powers I was using and why, and it took me 16m to finish an Adult Dragon, maybe you were doing Young and hence half the time! Also the scaling is only 18k or 20k, so item level really makes no difference!

    I don't think you also understand how the modifier works.
    I admit I ran a sloppy test, to lower my item level to 36k or so. I hinted at that, as I said I didn't have your gear, or your enchantments but it also wasn't relevant and I didn't know what gear you were using. Had I lowered it properly I would have armor with less Combined Rating! I stated I just took stuff off. I'm not arguing with you. And I made some other corrections above, I need more times to review, what was written and then revise; than what some do.

    What I failed to identify, was why I had used a Hybrid build, as that's where Thauma really excels. It was two weeks ago...

    Still I firmly stand behind everything I said in the post dated July 1 Edited 11:41AM. Thaumatuge is superior in Control & Damage with AoE clearly over Arcane, and it's also slightly better than Single Target defeating enemy faster too!
    Post edited by strathkin on
  • account#4846 account Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    strathkin said:



    This time, I gave Thaumaturge it's two best class powers Critical Conflagration & Swath of Destruction.


    ╘ still this is all Single Target, which shows the gap is narrowed.


    Now I see only your seemingly consecutive screenshots of the young dragon. Probably by coincidence, (and not because they were taken after the 2nd arena and not after completion), I can't see the dealed damage to them
    What a coincidence ... unlikely
    You are ridiculous.
  • badnickname#3262 badnickname Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    To be honest, I don't know how you playing, but your results have no basis in reality. Thaumaturge has no tools to deal damage comparable to Arcanist. In mod 16, Thaumaturge was on top because of his last feat, Directed flames. This feat was dealing larger portion of total damage.

    I don't remember in which module they changed this feat, but they added cooldown (12 seconds) here. Since this time thaumaturge underperforming because builds was made around this feat (you can imagine this like a Band of Air as feat). If you think that Arcanist needs bigger buff than Thaumaturge, well I'm happy with this anyway.
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,589 Arc User
    edited July 2

    strathkin said:



    This time, I gave Thaumaturge it's two best class powers Critical Conflagration & Swath of Destruction.


    ╘ still this is all Single Target, which shows the gap is narrowed.

    Now I see only your seemingly consecutive screenshots of the young dragon. Probably by coincidence, (and not because they were taken after the 2nd arena and not after completion), I can't see the dealed damage to them
    What a coincidence ... unlikely
    You are ridiculous.
    Everyone who completes the same Young Dragon, does very similar damage. *sigh*

    I'm not trying to argue. This is not what the thread is for, it's to talk about how Arcane isn't as superior to Thaumaturge. More generally it's more to talk about how Wizard's (both) do far less damage than other classes, until this got talking about things I hadn't planned on.

    @account#4846
    If you want to run any of the tests in your Gear on both Arcane & Thaumaturge using same Class Powers & Encounter's I'd love you to share your results! You'd see very similar results, which would verify that Arcane isn't as strong as Thaumaturge. We all know both class of Wizard's hurt far more than other DPS class!

    I've done a good job showing Arcane needs slightly more than Thauma, because Dev's claimed Thaumaturge needed a bigger boost than Arcane. Thaumaturge really excels in AoE, while the damage is clearly still greater in Single target; it's less noticeable.

    *sigh*

    I take more time to review & edit, and often don't use save as draft as much as I should.
  • account#4846 account Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    strathkin said:



    Everyone who completes the same Young Dragon, does very similar damage. *sigh* I'm not trying to argue.

    The full screen (which shows your dmg) shows us whether you actually completed the dragon in the time you are trying to imply. It is an evidence. This, which you posted, is another mystification. I can show you an analogous screen shot, where the time will be 2 min. Would you believe it?
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,589 Arc User
    edited July 2

    To be honest, I don't know how you playing, but your results have no basis in reality. Thaumaturge has no tools to deal damage comparable to Arcanist. In mod 16, Thaumaturge was on top because of his last feat, Directed flames. This feat was dealing larger portion of total damage.

    I don't remember in which module they changed this feat, but they added cooldown (12 seconds) here. Since this time thaumaturge underperforming because builds was made around this feat (you can imagine this like a Band of Air as feat). If you think that Arcanist needs bigger buff than Thaumaturge, well I'm happy with this anyway.

    I'm using all the Thaumatuge Feat's, and Arcane in the Guide here:
    https://www.mmorpgtips.com/neverwinter-wizard-thaumaturge-build/
    https://www.mmorpgtips.com/neverwinter-wizard-arcanist-build/

    So I'm not even familiar with this changed feat, as I've been gone for 2 years or more! I only returned this last month.

    ――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――
    Well please do TRY, you and @account#4846 I'd welcome that! You can clearly see what powers I use in both Hybrid Build, and I use all Feat's shown in both Guide's for both Arcanist & Thaumaturge. I also stated all the Class power for Arcane Chilling Presence & Storm Spell, while for Hybrid I used Chilling Presence & Orb of Imposition for Thauma; yet for Single Targer I used Critical Conflagration & Swath of Destruction. I don't need to see damage done, they will all be similar, it's the time (first across the line) that matters only. Not that this is a competition, yet I'd welcome more discovery that Thamaturge by itself still is Superior even today!

    I want us to work together, not apart. I'm not someone who is mean, just trying my best to help; and I take Longer than most to ensure everything is stated correctly, especially switching windows while checking.
    ――――――――――――――――――――――――――――

    I've clearly stated which Class Powers are used in my first test (Hybrid) with both Thaumaturge: Chilling Presence & Orb of Imposition (which was used as it's Thauma's less preferred choice) yet it still beat Arcane by 2-3 minutes in Hybrid. Both for Arcane are always the same Chilling Presence & Storm Spell.

    When I switched to Single Target I used their two best Critical Conflagration & Swath of Destruction;

    Yet it's the times that really show in single Young Dragon, Thauma is still on Top!
    Post edited by strathkin on
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,589 Arc User
    edited July 2

    strathkin said:



    Everyone who completes the same Young Dragon, does very similar damage. *sigh* I'm not trying to argue.

    The full screen (which shows your dmg) shows us whether you actually completed the dragon in the time you are trying to imply. It is an evidence. This, which you posted, is another mystification. I can show you an analogous screen shot, where the time will be 2 min. Would you believe it?
    Yet both Green are shown lying on the floor in Single Target, they weren't in Hybrid (2 AoE / 2 Single Target) likely as I was spending far more time, to ensure the screenshots were captured! I was new to them back then, yet there is no Health bar shown and it is inside their lair.


    Otherwise you'd see this at the Top of the Screen, if Cryptic validated the same Powers & Class abilities; they'd see I'm telling the truth! You've run one, yet haven't run both Arcane & Thauma on the same Wizard with same Gear/Enchantments/Mount Powers/Companions as I have done. If you had you'd see clearly Thauma does finish faster!

    I will always use Potions, and I'm using 10% ones too!

    Run it yourself, using Thauma build with all the same Class of Chilling Presence & Orb of Imposition; then do Arcane with it's powers and Chilling Presence & Storm Spell. For the Single Target I changed Class Powers on Thauma to Critical Conflagration & Swath of Destruction, yet Arcane still uses Chilling Presence & Storm Spell.
    Post edited by strathkin on
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