up the leaver penalty

oshannon

you guys need to up the leaver penalty for leaving a RAQ / RTQ / etc. to like three hours or a day or two. people are jumping into Demogorgon and immediately leaving.

chidion

Random queues have all kinds of problems we've gone from 'we've made dungeons random to make them pop more quickly' to having a 10-20+ wait for dungeons to pop. One thing that would help is when a person joins a random queue no option to respond or decline... Regardless of where a player is or what they are doing they are yanked out of what ever they are doing and thrown into the dungeon/skirmish they chose to join. Then if they abandon, yeah a more hefty penalty if anyone leaves (I was thinking hours - not minutes or days). Just a thought.

stryker80

Please, no. We already have people begging for a kick (which we have to wait for a bit to do), or just zoning out when the randoms give them a zone they don't want, to avoid a 30 minute penalty. Making the penalty greater would exacerbate that issue.

chidion

Then I wish someone from corporate could come up with an alternative to keep people from bouncing out of radom queues after committing to run a random queue.

muschellka

An easy way for you to stay alone in those quees. Such HDPSes 60k+ who are unable to kill mimic in Lomm. Healers who don’t know to heal, and tanks who didn't heard about aggro.
Good luck

badnickname

Penalizing people is never good idea. Instead doing this, you should realize why they act this way and draw conclusions. Problem begins when people 35k IL are supposed to do more challenging content, sometimes first time. Then we struggling with killing mimics, we have more than one golem-phase on 2 boss in lomm and so on. After changes, there is also plenty of people 60k+ who have problem with things I mentioned here. These dungeons are just painful if they are not premade and very often it’s a fail from beginning. Speaking of trial… Demo is not so easy, some level of cooperation is needed and people must do their job. It cannot be done if 8/10 people queuing demo because they hoping to be carried. So now we have situation when better players doing it in premade groups, or when they trying go alone they leaving if demo pops. Such attitude „I’m 30k. I don’t have any idea what to do, I’m useless but CARRY ME!!!!111 ” prompted me to make a decision to give up with rtq. In my opinion, the idea of random dungeons is a mistake and devs should think about solution which make players 30 and 65k+ happy.

jbt91

The problem with the Demo trial is that without an group that has their stats in order and high enough damage to take care of mobs and burn demo down in phase 3, the trial is liable to fail. People know that the Demo trial in random queue has a high fail chance, so they would rather take a 30 minute penalty than spend an hour dealing with repeated failures. If the leaver penalty was increased, people would simply run more premades that can complete the run, increasing the queue times for those queueing into the random queue by themselves. It would be better to address the issues with the Demo trial than push people further away from using random queues.

namelesshero347

chidion said:

Then I wish someone from corporate could come up with an alternative to keep people from bouncing out of radom queues after committing to run a random queue.

Give everyone who leaves the penalty. The problem is not the first guy willing to take a penalty. The problem is everyone else fleeing afterwards. Need to encourage more people to at least give the run a try. Make the 15-minute vote abandon the more attractive option to the penalty.

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powerpuff

There are just too many issues wrapped up on random queues for any quick or simple fix. The designers have made multiple choices over the years that have resulted in the game play we now experience. You can't really blame players for using the features provided in the game. But here's a thought - don't allow pre-made groups for random queues.

hadestemplar

oshannon#5015 said:

you guys need to up the leaver penalty for leaving a RAQ / RTQ / etc. to like three hours or a day or two. people are jumping into Demogorgon and immediately leaving.

In some ways yes, it's annoying when someone leave in the middle of dungeon.. Yet this increase in penalty will not help much. You know why??

Player will simply stay afk at campfire, and wait. Either party vote abandon or vote kick him, and thats how he avoid penalty.

I where countless times in random trial/dungeon/skirmish parties with pugs.. There where plenty of cases when some simply do righ that,, sit at campfire and do nothing.. So rest of party have two options, sit 15min till you can vote kick him or vote kick abandon dungeon/skirmish/trial or third option you leave group by yourself..

And now lets bring most popular cases, demogorgon trial. From 10 pug runs at least 7 of times pugs leave at very start. Or simply stay in campfire zone and wait till someone vote kick them. Some go straight forward and ask to be votekicked.

So penalty increae will not solve anything. I would reccomend to do random daily dungeon/trial with friends.

mrimsogood

Just remove the penalty completely and reduce the vote to kick down to 5min

greywynd

powerpuff#6508 said:

There are just too many issues wrapped up on random queues for any quick or simple fix. The designers have made multiple choices over the years that have resulted in the game play we now experience. You can't really blame players for using the features provided in the game. But here's a thought - don't allow pre-made groups for random queues.

Why not? When you PUG solo in the randoms, you're most likely filling in a slot for content that someone queued directly for. Or you're filling in for a reinforcements call, but that's another matter.

When the entire party queues random, they want to play together, whether friends, guildies, or allies. They don't really care where they end up so long as they are doing it together.

powerpuff

greywynd said:

When the entire party queues random, they want to play together, whether friends,
guildies, or allies. They don't really care where they end up so long as they are doing it together.

Offering a suggestion, but feel free to offer your own. But really, "they want to play together" is just an euphemism to "want guaranteed success to earn RAD and be done with it". That is the ONLY reason people do random queues.

thany

Demo has far more problems... With vip you can tp wherever you want and you can't start "kick vote" in demo. That said you can't start rtq at all. So someone must take penalty or all can wait for 15 minutes doing nothing. Main problem with demo is rad "design". I would like to see how many people will q. directly for that dungeon if demo isn't "part" of rtq. Probably no one... IMHO, 97% of demo dungeons are just randoms... 1% of them are premade groups that can play with only one tank and 2% is "else".

muschellka

Before you write such nonsense about increasing penalties, I suggest you think about one thing. Are you sure that a group of 5/10 people who play at YOUR level or worse will be able to do this job?
By “level” I mean knowing the dungeons mechanics, your own class and your playing skills
And if you consider yourself as an experienced player, then consider whether you are able to carry the other players on your own.

The idiotic combat rework that is aimed to get money out of the players results in a one thing: We have to carry 60-70k+ players playing like a HAMSTER

greywynd

powerpuff#6508 said:

Offering a suggestion, but feel free to offer your own. But really, "they want to play together" is just an euphemism to "want guaranteed success to earn RAD and be done with it". That is the ONLY reason people do random queues.

Your opinion. We've had alliance runs fail. We laugh. We learn. We try again.

powerpuff

Still waiting for YOUR suggestion grey

greywynd

What suggestion would you like? The devs are too far invested in anything by the time we hear about it. If it's a bad idea, it still goes forward and we have to deal with it or quit. Seems like a lot are doing that.

chidion

powerpuff#6508 said:

greywynd said:

When the entire party queues random, they want to play together, whether friends,
guildies, or allies. They don't really care where they end up so long as they are doing it together.

Offering a suggestion, but feel free to offer your own. But really, "they want to play together" is just an euphemism to "want guaranteed success to earn RAD and be done with it". That is the ONLY reason people do random queues.

Yeah, not quite powerpuff...

My real life scheduling precludes finding many guild/any members online when I'm online so I can either run a random queue or try to pull together a private queue, which is too often more time consuming and frustrating than waiting for a random to pop and truth be told I more enjoy running random content, sometimes learning things from people more experienced in a particular content and sometimes I'm able to offer tips and tricks to some who appear to be struggling.

However I still think my suggestion to be seriously considered...

If someone queues for random content they should be pulled into that content as soon as one is available.

It shouldn't matter where they are or what else they're doing and definitely None of this "Accept - Decline" HAMSTER. People who've queued for a dungeon or skirmish should be willing to go when the instance is ready or not attempt to join - period.

Waiting 20 minutes for a queue to pop and when it does having players decline or just not respond very often leads to another 20 minute +/- wait. That's not right at all.

Another thing that I think would be helpful is some kind of auto timer to kick players out of a random run once they've picked up their reward after no more than 60 seconds. I realize I made myself part of the problem in this one instance, but out of curiosity I watched some people after the completion of a random run and two players picked up their reward and just hung out in the dungeon for more than 2 minutes, I left after 2 minutes so couldn't say it it was longer.

muschellka

And what does it bother you that someone stayed in an unclosed instance?

My suggestion is that: throw away these random queues and restore the status quo before times when this stupid attempt to force people to do what they don't want has been introduced.
This is: for the first dung, skirmish or trial of the day you get a certain amount of money. Remove penalties, remove end quests in campaigns that requires the completion of dungeon at the end. This has always been wrong and so far, hasn't done anything good.
Not everyone has to do everything. Not everyone is suitable for everything. Requiring from someone who started playing a month ago to go on the hardest trial in the game is idiotic.

This is a game, not a second job, and no one is going to work for anyone else. Maybe the devs would finally get that. Although I highly doubt it.

badnickname

chidion said:

Another thing that I think would be helpful is some kind of auto timer to kick players out of a random run once they've picked up their reward after no more than 60 seconds. I realize I made myself part of the problem in this one instance, but out of curiosity I watched some people after the completion of a random run and two players picked up their reward and just hung out in the dungeon for more than 2 minutes, I left after 2 minutes so couldn't say it it was longer.

What is inappropriate in staying in finished dungeon?


Some people starting que and doing quests in meantime, because it may take some time. They can be in the middle of important BHE and "decline" option is useful. Current problems with cancelling queues it's just a bug and i hope this will be fixed soon. No need such changes as you mentioned.

plan009

chidion said:

powerpuff#6508 said:

greywynd said:

When the entire party queues random, they want to play together, whether friends,
guildies, or allies. They don't really care where they end up so long as they are doing it together.

Offering a suggestion, but feel free to offer your own. But really, "they want to play together" is just an euphemism to "want guaranteed success to earn RAD and be done with it". That is the ONLY reason people do random queues.

Yeah, not quite powerpuff...

My real life scheduling precludes finding many guild/any members online when I'm online so I can either run a random queue or try to pull together a private queue, which is too often more time consuming and frustrating than waiting for a random to pop and truth be told I more enjoy running random content, sometimes learning things from people more experienced in a particular content and sometimes I'm able to offer tips and tricks to some who appear to be struggling.

However I still think my suggestion to be seriously considered...

If someone queues for random content they should be pulled into that content as soon as one is available.

It shouldn't matter where they are or what else they're doing and definitely None of this "Accept - Decline" HAMSTER. People who've queued for a dungeon or skirmish should be willing to go when the instance is ready or not attempt to join - period.

Waiting 20 minutes for a queue to pop and when it does having players decline or just not respond very often leads to another 20 minute +/- wait. That's not right at all.

Another thing that I think would be helpful is some kind of auto timer to kick players out of a random run once they've picked up their reward after no more than 60 seconds. I realize I made myself part of the problem in this one instance, but out of curiosity I watched some people after the completion of a random run and two players picked up their reward and just hung out in the dungeon for more than 2 minutes, I left after 2 minutes so couldn't say it it was longer.

I agree with what you said, first. At the end, don’t know why you care if people hang out in a finished dungeon (CR belongs to me when it’s over, lol) and completely disagree about dragging people into a dungeon because they queued for it 20+ mins ago and don’t want to sit there doing nothing while they wait. I go do other things and try to accept when a queue is ready, but if something is going on that I deem is more important than that, I decline.

Much of the “declining”, right now, is a bug, anyway. In any case, I think that would just make things worse, just like making penalties worse would. If people knew they would be dragged in and had to decide to queue and wait or get dragged in when they might be doing something else, less would queue and the ones that did would have a higher chance of being afk. You can’t stop the afk method of declines, lol. I’ve been reading a book and didn’t notice I missed the queue until 10 mins later, on occasion. Now if you don’t mind waiting or kicking (meaning more waiting and, possibly, more kicking), great. I’m against it.

therealprotex

powerpuff#6508 said:

There are just too many issues wrapped up on random queues for any quick or simple fix. The designers have made multiple choices over the years that have resulted in the game play we now experience. You can't really blame players for using the features provided in the game. But here's a thought - don't allow pre-made groups for random queues.

An equally silly solution (but quite the opposite idea) would be to allow queuing only if you had 10+ successful runs in premade groups, seperately for each queue group.

melotai

My own experience with RTQ since the changes, when I queue with my DC Demo is usually an automatic abandon as soon as I get it because I have better things to do and do not care about the leaver penalty in that instance.

As far as increasing the leaver penalty for not doing a random it would just make me ignore it entirely as a solo player and I would then only queue for it if I was part of a premade group.

For me, I still have this silly idea that games are supposed to be fun and if I aint having fun then I aint doing it.

My perception right now concerning the state of random queues is that having less players being able to or unwilling to queue for it just makes it a useless thing that needs to be removed.

For my DPS, oddly enough because of the long wait times I decline a lot before I actually get anywhere with them as I am frequently doing some in-game thing that I do not want to repeat again or I am in the middle of one of those epic encounters and I do not want to repeat that either as most of the time I do not advertise so I am usually soloing it for either all or most of the battle. This especially holds true if I am playing an ALT because it takes a little more effort on my part to get them through the new stuff.

tchefi

chidion said:

Another thing that I think would be helpful is some kind of auto timer to kick players out of a random run once they've picked up their reward after no more than 60 seconds. I realize I made myself part of the problem in this one instance, but out of curiosity I watched some people after the completion of a random run and two players picked up their reward and just hung out in the dungeon for more than 2 minutes, I left after 2 minutes so couldn't say it it was longer.

I think there is already a timer in the vicinity of 10, maybe 15 minutes, after which the instance closes (whether or not you took your chests). I happened to be kicked out from 2 or 3 instances this way, last one was back in last august in Demo while we were hanging at the demo campfire and discussing about how to optimize the next run (full guild run).

I strongly disagree with this idea of shortening this timer, and I don't understand how it would help in anything at all to kick out players from an instance right after they got their rewards.
The very problem of queues not firing is not linked to that at all.

Did you ask to the 2 you saw hanging out why they weren't leaving the Demo ?

Hanging out in a finished dungeon with players I just ran with is an occasion to have a "peaceful time" during which I can talk with them, laugh with them, compare loots, thanks the tank/healer for their well done job, /emote them, RP with them, answer/ask them about meta/mechanic relative to the dungeon, play them an appropriate "winner song" (let's say my 3 min version of Castlevania's Vampire Killer at the end of CR) (I mostly play my bard since the class was released ^^ and I definitely love to play something at the end of each dungeon I do with random people, and highly enjoy if someone stays to listen to the song ^^), etc, etc, etc.
I'm sad it doesn't happen as many time as I would want ^^, but as a result, when it does, I feel like i have found some kind of jewel shining in the middle of an ocean of mud.

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fritz

oshannon#5015 said:

you guys need to up the leaver penalty for leaving a RAQ / RTQ / etc. to like three hours or a day or two. people are jumping into Demogorgon and immediately leaving.

Obviously this is written out of frustration and tackles a symptom not the illness. Random Queues offer the illusion of being able to queue solo, but it's really a system you need to premade for. I don't think people should leave without trying, but I also don't think such a queue should throw content at players that they legitimately cannot complete at the minimum item level and even a good chunk above that.

In the end it's a farm system, people jump in and out because they want the fastest way to their RADs. It's not bad, you're just looking for the wrong kind of experience within random queues.

thany

Demo was the easiest rtq. Rewards were much better than now. So, yes. We should punish players for all this changes. Not devs... Players should waste 30 minutes to wait for rtq, than another 20+ minutes for failed demo. And another 50 minutes for new failed demo. And maybe they will get tiamat after all. Or sva/codg and maybe they'll fail again. After that they can q. for radq. So they can get tic and tic usually has lags and in pugs it's hard to finish without scrolls. Or CR with all bugs... This game needs changes. 100K AD should be easy obtainable on easy random dungeons. Right now, most of rc-es are easier than demogorgon itself and we need (mostly) 50K ilvl to play them. Devs made all pugs harder (not just demo, even sva is harderd) because of... Well my opinion is. They just wanted that people get/generate less RAD.

powerpuff

It would be interesting for the devs to post statistics about the rate of failure and abandonment for Demo and RTQ generally for pre-mod22 and post-mod22. They have that information. I wonder if they are seeing player declines after the recent game releases like lost ark? Could that be the real reason behind the temporary removal of demo from RTQ?