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Make dps and healers generate less threat/agro?

earlgreybeardearlgreybeard Member Posts: 394 Arc User
please take a look at and do something about how the threat mechanics work.. it seems to be getting worse over time. The 15% threat for tanks from teamwork tactics bonus does very little to improve maintaining threat from what I am seeing in many dungeons.
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Answers

  • silente07#2597 silente07 Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    Seems Jewel of the north is bugged for Tanks. And now with Band of air DPS get up to 20% boost as well as
    and lastly. The Que Tanks are usually newish players or have just switched paragons to get into que. The Devs know all of this and it’s on a list somewhere.
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,002 Arc User
    Just get rid of the silly threat modifiers for tanks to force tank players to understand that offensive stats = threat generation.
    Elite Whaleboy
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,503 Arc User
    Threat generation and holding aggro has been an issue for tanks since about Mod 6.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • chidionchidion Member Posts: 422 Arc User
    edited February 18
    If tanks chose the mechanics to generate more threat they shouldn't have a lot of problem holding aggro, I think it would help if characters who choose tank would have an auto threat generator built into their mechanics when they choose tank.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,398 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    Threat generation and holding aggro has been an issue for tanks since about Mod 6.

    What?
    Aggro was never an issue from Mod 6-15, because tank aggro was tied to spamming hard taunts rather than the current game's system of building aggro.

    Guardian Fighter had the Mark mechanic, which was a spammable hard taunt.
    Enforced Threat functioned mostly as it does now, though it was also stronger from Mod 6-15 due to ET dealing damage and Recovery allowing you to spam it every ~5 seconds or so.
    If that wasn't enough, you had Knight's Challenge, which literally was *target MUST attack you for the duration of the challenge*. The only way you lost aggro with KC was if *another GF* used KC after you did.
    And if that wasn't enough aggro, you could also play Conqueror to hit things for hundreds of millions of damage.

    Oath of Protection Paladin had Divine Call, which was AoE hard taunt with 3 charges, not to mention randomly getting a free charge back from the Justice capstone.
    If that wasn't enough for you, you also had other hard taunts in Relentless Avenger, Binding Oath, and Sacred Weapon.

  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,503 Arc User
    Yes, the entire party hard taunted the OP on use of Avenger. A lot of those aggro situations could be broken by other players or ignored by the monsters. KC on Orcus and spins to hit the character behind him.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • powerpuff#6508 powerpuff Member Posts: 177 Arc User
    As a 43k healer with a 22k newish tank in FBI, i was swarmed by mobs and mostly unable to heal at times since i was too busy running around the tank to lose their focus. The bosses weren't a problem - just the mobs in between. Happens in other dungeons as well. So something needs adjusting.
  • silente07#2597 silente07 Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    Healer died twice in the troll tunnels because dps couldn’t kill mobs fast enough and Tank was inexperienced and in keeping the group alive I couldn’t lose aggro. But any mob situation was bad, but in the tunnels you can’t run away as well.
  • thany#4351 thany Member Posts: 258 Arc User
    edited February 19
    Newborn tanks, nowadays, use new equipment. All this new "shiny" ilvl items but it's a HAMSTER... Same goes for newborn healers and dpses. I und. them. They want to pass ilvl 50 so they can play rc. That's why premade groups in pe are mostly made of 60K+ ilvls. Right now, game is in a bad shape. TBH I don't have problems with agrro with my tank loadout but i just avoid to tank. I don't have problems because i invested a lot of ad into my tank loadout. Not as much as endgame tanks but i have decent tank loadout. More ilvl than my dps loadout lol.
  • earlgreybeardearlgreybeard Member Posts: 394 Arc User
    Thanks for the replies.. I think there needs to be more discussion and a bit more transperancy about how agro is gained by individual players in a group in a dungeon and why the threat generating mechanics that that tanks have are so weak.

    ie. I would like to know ; how much do healer and dps companions contribute to their threat level ?

    Guild Leader Den of the Misfits
  • sagakaiyume#0847 sagakaiyume Member Posts: 402 Arc User
    edited February 20
    I'm running the new trial with a dps who does 900k Encdps. My at will does 10k or so on a good day. Manticore mane bite makes up 67% of my overall damage in the trial along with the heal that comes along with it, I'm only attacking really to get my daily back to spam it again.

    In everything but the new trial, all I do is run in small circles with condemned ring on, I mean, it creates the same aggro in 2 seconds as my linebreaker, I may as well do nothing but run in small circles. In dungeons, I use knight's valor and run in small circles during bosses, I don't need to ever hit the boss. Nothing for me to do because the aggro system is that broken.
  • modlesiemodlesie Member Posts: 203 Arc User

    wilbur626 said:

    Just get rid of the silly threat modifiers for tanks to force tank players to understand that offensive stats = threat generation.

    The problem with that is now would have to raise their off stats and sacrifice def stats, which would defeat the whole purpose of being a tank
    +!
  • dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    rjc9000 said:

    greywynd said:

    Threat generation and holding aggro has been an issue for tanks since about Mod 6.

    What?
    Aggro was never an issue from Mod 6-15, because tank aggro was tied to spamming hard taunts rather than the current game's system of building aggro.

    Guardian Fighter had the Mark mechanic, which was a spammable hard taunt.
    Enforced Threat functioned mostly as it does now, though it was also stronger from Mod 6-15 due to ET dealing damage and Recovery allowing you to spam it every ~5 seconds or so.
    If that wasn't enough, you had Knight's Challenge, which literally was *target MUST attack you for the duration of the challenge*. The only way you lost aggro with KC was if *another GF* used KC after you did.
    And if that wasn't enough aggro, you could also play Conqueror to hit things for hundreds of millions of damage.

    Oath of Protection Paladin had Divine Call, which was AoE hard taunt with 3 charges, not to mention randomly getting a free charge back from the Justice capstone.
    If that wasn't enough for you, you also had other hard taunts in Relentless Avenger, Binding Oath, and Sacred Weapon.
    Chris: "Can I get a witness?"
    The Took: "Amen!"
    Ditto all of that. I lived it 12 hours per week.
    hahahaha. I lived through all of those moments. All of those tank hard taunts which were gradually nerfed or made obsolete with the "Potty Squat" reboot.

    Good times.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • fritz#8093 fritz Member Posts: 193 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    Threat generation and holding aggro has been an issue for tanks since about Mod 6.

    Uhm no.
    wilbur626 said:

    Just get rid of the silly threat modifiers for tanks to force tank players to understand that offensive stats = threat generation.

    I run a conventional GF tank with defense first and have little issues with aggro even against BiS BoA. You need to know when to use your hard taunt, but once you figured it out it's easy game. I find it a little annoying that so much depends on the Ring of the Condemned, but that's apparently how the game works these days. You either use very specific items or simply aren't competitive.
  • fritz#8093 fritz Member Posts: 193 Arc User

    wilbur626 said:

    Just get rid of the silly threat modifiers for tanks to force tank players to understand that offensive stats = threat generation.

    The problem with that is now would have to raise their off stats and sacrifice def stats, which would defeat the whole purpose of being a tank
    It's more an issue of premade/guild runs vs. public / random queue. If you can count on specific group buffs or style of play tanks do not need to cap defensive stats at all. In a random queue though you can't bank on certain stuff and are much better off with a conventional approach.
  • silente07#2597 silente07 Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    I can’t afford to boost offense AND Defense stats. New enchant system is crazy expensive and so is getting collars up AND insignias to mythic, sorry I have a job already. The game is now more grind than I have time and more money than I have. So running what I do have.
    Still can hold threat on most things, except when the 75k dps crits on a rotation, I keep a hard taunt ready to get it back.
    Healing though grabs aggro like crazy. THAT needs fixed.
  • earlgreybeardearlgreybeard Member Posts: 394 Arc User
    ok, I have been told comps don't add to the players threat level, so sorry if that seemed like a dumb question

    I would be curious at just how much threat mirage clones add to the threat dynamics in a dungeon.

    just from casual observation I would say they do effect it somewhat..

    Guild Leader Den of the Misfits
  • earlgreybeardearlgreybeard Member Posts: 394 Arc User

    Healing though grabs aggro like crazy. THAT needs fixed.

    Agree

    I have taken to using midnight cowl to try and mitigate this a little

    Guild Leader Den of the Misfits
  • callumf#9018 callumf Member Posts: 1,585 Arc User

    greywynd said:

    Threat generation and holding aggro has been an issue for tanks since about Mod 6.

    Uhm no.
    wilbur626 said:

    Just get rid of the silly threat modifiers for tanks to force tank players to understand that offensive stats = threat generation.

    I run a conventional GF tank with defense first and have little issues with aggro even against BiS BoA. You need to know when to use your hard taunt, but once you figured it out it's easy game. I find it a little annoying that so much depends on the Ring of the Condemned, but that's apparently how the game works these days. You either use very specific items or simply aren't competitive.
    I run a GF tank and I can hold aggro pretty well - timing taunts is important.

    Also in RTQ I can hold aggro in Svardborg for as logn as I want really, and I can hold aggro on the final MOB in CoDG easy peasy but Tiamat I cant drag mobs off the clerics if they are too far away or something.
  • silente07#2597 silente07 Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    > @earlgreybeard said:
    > Agree
    >
    > I have taken to using midnight cowl to try and mitigate this a little

    I have as well, but I haven’t noticed it doing much.
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