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Combat Enchantments and Companion Enchantments
leslithegreat
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 16 Arc User
I mentioned it in the launch week issues topic, but in case it hasn't been looked at since launch week:
Combat enchantments and companion enchantments have an item level, but not a combined rating. This means that at mythic a combat enchantment lowers all stats by 5%. The companion enchantment lowers all stats by an additional 1.5% for a grand total of 6.5% lost stats. While it can be argued that the benefits of them overshadow this, it leads to a counter-intuitive, unfriendly experience for the user, and also goes against one of the primary design pillars of the game: acquiring new tools to improve your character.
Improving your character by acquiring new gear is a major component of pretty much every MMORPG, and NWO is no exception. Acquiring a combat enchantment should be entirely an upgrade - in contrast to having an empty slot - and not a side-grade. Trade offs between different enchantments is fine and is good for the game. The existence of gear that provides a bonus in exchange for a detriment is fine too. Gear with the bonus "the ol' switcheroo" is a prime example of this, however, gear with this bonus explicitly states that it has a negative effect. The combat enchantments do not do this. It is merely a function of the game's systems which causes a significant drop in stats. A new player is quite unlikely to realize this, and even for long time players it is unclear whether it is better to use one or to leave that slot blank. The only way to tell is through testing with third party programs which record the damage dealt, or by creating large spreadsheets to calculate resistances gained from fortified nature vs the amount lost and how much more/less damage you will take on average.
In my opinion systemic issues like this should be a higher priority than specific bugs, as they are both easier to fix and affect more players (literally all players have a combat enchantment and companion enchantment slot).
Thank you to anyone who took the time to read this post.
Combat enchantments and companion enchantments have an item level, but not a combined rating. This means that at mythic a combat enchantment lowers all stats by 5%. The companion enchantment lowers all stats by an additional 1.5% for a grand total of 6.5% lost stats. While it can be argued that the benefits of them overshadow this, it leads to a counter-intuitive, unfriendly experience for the user, and also goes against one of the primary design pillars of the game: acquiring new tools to improve your character.
Improving your character by acquiring new gear is a major component of pretty much every MMORPG, and NWO is no exception. Acquiring a combat enchantment should be entirely an upgrade - in contrast to having an empty slot - and not a side-grade. Trade offs between different enchantments is fine and is good for the game. The existence of gear that provides a bonus in exchange for a detriment is fine too. Gear with the bonus "the ol' switcheroo" is a prime example of this, however, gear with this bonus explicitly states that it has a negative effect. The combat enchantments do not do this. It is merely a function of the game's systems which causes a significant drop in stats. A new player is quite unlikely to realize this, and even for long time players it is unclear whether it is better to use one or to leave that slot blank. The only way to tell is through testing with third party programs which record the damage dealt, or by creating large spreadsheets to calculate resistances gained from fortified nature vs the amount lost and how much more/less damage you will take on average.
In my opinion systemic issues like this should be a higher priority than specific bugs, as they are both easier to fix and affect more players (literally all players have a combat enchantment and companion enchantment slot).
Thank you to anyone who took the time to read this post.
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Comments
Companion enchantment has either 150% damage boost for active companions or 7500 stats added to augment specific stats while on mythic. It has 1500 IL. In previous enchants system all runestones (indominable, all stat ones) had Combined Ratings, but I think they changed that because previously we had 6 slots within companion gear and now it's only 1 slot, while at the same time it gives higher bonuses.
I'd argue about this one not having Combined Ratings, but it's smaller one of the two.
As for Combat Enchantment... during the stream dev said they planned for them to have 10000 Item Level, not 5000 at max rank. Imagine that. And that's because combat enchants have 10% damage/damage resistance bonus and it technically should be like 1% = 1000 stat. It's already lowered. Add to them their extra effect and the fact that this 10% boost is multiplicative and not additive and there you go.
They changed Bonus slots to not have either Item Level or Combined Rating so technically those works like boons.
I think they wanted to stay close to their original purpose with the whole Stat System and that is to not have everything maxed out. Previously it was possible for dps to have power, ca and both crit stats capped while in combat. So in order to battle it they gave those enchants with high Item Level and no Combined Ratings. So that people would choose what they want to cap.
The problem (as allways) is the change. People dont like changes and is normal. But if you think on it, the new system makes the building more interesting
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This is touching the problem of intentional massive disparity between companion DPS though.
With augments... you are losing the active companion benefits (CA in solo, special effects) and you have to deal with 3 huge stat piles instead of %, which is a problem on its own. (it requires you to deliberately neglect 3 specific stats, which surprisingly takes a lot of effort)
As your IL gets bigger, all the combat enchants, in most cases (=if you are not sitting on caps), drop into a negative impact on both damage output and survivability at the same time. This statement is surprisingly valid not just in capped content.
(but sure, there is a nice omission to use - soulforged in RC "no revive")
This rework... it feels like... was put together out of nowhere, probably during a single lunch-break - but allegedly it was not.
(Well, saying now on stream that the movement speed bonus on azure enchants was only meant as a temporary solution... was kinda too obvious FU moment. Yeah, we knew you want it, so we gave you an opportunity to spend some currency - with a clear plan to massively devalue your investment in a few months...)
Either way, in the new trial I've got my dps spec at 90% power, 75% acc, 90% crit sev/rate 90% CA able to pull my weight in dps. My tank spec at 90% def/aware/crit avoid 80% deflect, 58% deflect sev with Augment, able to hold aggro. Yes, I do have poison thorn on my dps build and fortified nature on my tank spec.
In everything else I use an active companion, the stats vary as I have 3 dps builds , 5 tanks builds depending on scaled content, HC vos, trials ect.
You do you man, but you're wrong about the value of the companion enchant. Its the first thing everyone agrees should be upgraded.
Second, if I have "+3% to ally damage" as a summoned companion, the damage of the whole raid gets significantly higher than whatever an augment can ever do to me. Same goes for a lot of other bonuses/debufs that can rise the whole raid to a really comfy ride, this is not an unique effect. But the mentioned companion does practically zero damage, so no point of having that enchant with him - it is net demerit.
I explained rather clearly where I see the issues with augments: no bonuses from summoned companion and dealing with raw piles of stats.
If you say the companion enchantment is the first thing to upgrade, you should mention the conditions when you should get rid of it. And that is not a blank page.
2. In endgame content groups are typically split as 4 supports in 1 group and 1 dps, along with other group dps. If you're playing a support, its not doing anything, if you're playing a dps in the dps group, with how damage buffs interact, you're lucky if everyone is doing 1% more damage.
3. If you're not doing endgame content, people aren't going to notice a 3% damage buff anyways, sincerely, even being on a tank-dps spec with a summoned comp that's stunning enemies or taunting enemies it'll be more useful (protecting clerics, taunting mobs from demo portals) Svard and cradle you can sit there as a tank and do nothing, everything is always dead (even when you don't want them to be).
4. If you're a healer, then anything is fine? Endgame DCs are healing over 1m crits now, pally healer is doing 650k shields, dunno about bards and warlock healers been a while since running with either.
So, with your statement, if you knew all this already I can only assume two things: 1, you don't run things like Tomm/Zariel/Crown, which is fine not everyone has to, so you're not typically in 4 support groups. 2, you're low-end dps and hoping to buff up other dpsers instead or playing a wiz/hr support build; if that's the case then may want to use things like the old apoc set, which gives double the value for the whole raid and you can run augment instead to improve your overall stats, you can also set the companion bonus for chance of -7.5% awareness on the enemy. Both these options heavily outweigh the 3% damage bonus to your party.
1. OK, 3 DPS getting the boost - still the sum is favourable to having to create 3x7,5k stat hole in my build and not boosting others. And, if by any chance the tank gets the benefit too, at least you do not screw the aggro. Fine this way?
2. You can have a debuff companion, with the way it stacks you will raise the whole raid damage by 10%. Sure, everyone must use a different one and it stacks as a sum, not a multiplication, but... Or you can have a Golden leo! Tank will get 10% less damage and nearby dps some procs of radiant weapon, whoa! You can have 3% damage resist one... yep, a lot of meaningful choices - well, at least better ones than an augment companion.
3. Oh, they will. Have you seen RQ lately? Oh yes, they will notice someone bringing in buffs and debuffs... no one will appreciate it because they will not understand, but they will notice. (edit: and the stunning companions do not benefit from the enchant much as they do not do much damage to start with)
4. If "anything is fine", then the enchant is off board straight away, no?
And please, do not assume. Stating your arguments is perfectly fine, but do not assume about my gameplay.
As well, you can do what you suggested in the last paragraph and still enjoy the bonuses from a summoned companion. So it is kinda off board in this discussion? Sure, one person in the raid should use armour break, but that is not a topic here, is it? The argument is not about what to run, but that the enchant can easily be a clear demerit. It went down the way to if using an augment is better than using a summoned companion - which is nice to discuss, but lets not lead it completely astray.
edit: I have a bad feeling you are unintentionally trying to convince me that having the enchant+augment pet is a perfect solution to the problem which having the enchant has created. My claim is that avoiding that problem in the first place might be a better solution.
I have a striker companion dps build that hits 90% caps, with 50% accuracy. My Augment build hits 90% caps with 75% accuracy. The companion getting 150% extra damage has a lot of value in 2 builds I use, one for AoE, one for ST. The Augment build is for trials.
My tank specs, as mentioned I have 5 of them. ST active comp, ST augment, AoE active comp, Dps-tank AoE active, Dps-tank ST active.
In every build, in all situations, that enchant has high value to the builds and worth the 1.5k stat loss, which in most cases you can easily make up for it.
If you want to strawman me by saying not everyone has a good companion, that's fine. But remember; wayward wizard is considered same as mystagogue and is under 1k for white, under 8k for green. You can get that from a single random que, plus you've been around quite a while so you should have options by this point.
Last comment here as this will likely end up in depths at this point.
Everyone can get a specific companion? Whoa, yes! But that does not change a thing about people running a variety of companions where the enchant does not make any sense. Again, your claim was it is an universally beneficial asset. It is not. If you could admit it instead of trying to dismiss the truth by a vague idea there is a condition where it could be beneficial, things would be much simpler.
First, to clarify my argument, some math:
The old combat enchantments (weapon enchantments) also gave a bonus to damage, in fact they gave a pretty similar bonus (8% as opposed to 10%), they also gave an item level, but that item level was 800. You had an armor and weapon enchant for a total of 1600 item level (this is assuming you had both maxed out). This should have been a total of -1.6% to all stats. However, from what I saw, the weapon and armor enchantments - while they did increase your item level for the purpose of calculating your damage, HP, and getting into content, they did not affect the calculation for your stats. Essentially you had 2 item levels, the displayed one and a hidden one. If you calculated your ratings pre-mod 22 the math of % = [(IL - Rating)/1000] + bonus %s did not accurately reflect the ratings the character sheet showed you unless you removed the armor and weapon enchantment IL from the calculation. In summation, your armor and weapon enchantments did not have any negative effects for you. They were entirely a buff (in contrast to having an empty slot).
They decided to change this system for the new ones to make the combat enchantments actually affect your stat calculation. My goal wasn't to start an argument over whether or not these enchantments are worth using, but rather to call attention to the counter-intuitive nature of how these affect a character's stats. I personally opted for a Fortified Nature enchantment because I am trying to concentrate on my tank (side bar, we need more tanks!!!). It says you get damage resistance and upped defensive stats, nowhere does it say that your offensive stats will go down. The Soul Shield is in a similar boat. Especially as a new player you might think as a DPS - "hey I'm new and die a lot, I should get the automatic revive enchantment" - without realizing that this decision is costing you not just an opportunity cost in terms of damage from not picking the damage enchantments, but also an additional damage cost from equipping it at all due to the reduced ratings. Here is my main point: yes, you can argue whether or not it is worth it, but I think the fact that people need to argue over it at all is a problem.
"I think the companion enchant not having combined rating is fine, as its a huge buff regardless if you use an augment or active, however the combat enchant is just a pain to work around along with mount power giving 3k IL and no combined rating, for something you can only use once a minute and useless in many RCs." This was my full entire first comment.
Which is inline with what everyone seems to agree. While Riki claims I gave him a wall of text first, he came in and told me nope and gave me a wall of text about the companion enchant. The companion enchant is set up in a way to hugely benefit you, just like how bondings before were extremely worth while, but broke scaled content, these now don't break the game while in scaled content. The combat enchant is set up however in a way to really hurt people who don't already have really high bolsters, tons of options for companions to slot in, people who don't understand how their overall stats work and so on.
I'm in agreement with you on the combat enchant; never said "because I can work with it, its good" I said its a pain. The combat enchant needs a look into, as does mount power as the return on investment for it is extremely low or truly detrimental for those who don't have a lot of options.