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One Week of Demo....
vaultingfrog
Member Posts: 185 Arc User
So it has officially been a full week of our revamped trial. And I find that I have mixed feelings about it.
The Good:
I like the new artifact set. My RNG is terrible but it's still there.
I enjoy the difficulty. Not terribly difficult but punishing enough for a single slip up.
The Bad:
Having it in Random Trial Que at 40k item level is a terrible idea. It limits the player base who can que up significantly more than what it was already. It also highlights issues with the community itself.
DPS players tend to be extremely selfish when it comes to dungeons or trials. This is not to say support classes aren't either, but it shows most prevalently in DPS. The "I NEED TO BE NUMBER 1 ON DAMAGE DONE" mentality really shows through in random Demo. They sacrifice everyone in phase three just to swing away at the boss instead of doing portals. And it's not just 1 or 2 people. It's usually all the DPS. Which is why Demo tends to fail more often than not.
The new mechanics are also not explained in any way, shape or form in the game. Tanks are going in blind and getting one or two tapped regularly because they have no idea how or even to switch aggro. Heck there are a lot of tanks that just won't swap with the other one, making other players essentially solo tank Demo. This slows DPS down a lot due to Demo constantly moving. That in turn leads to fails cause it takes so long the damage on players piles up and they die out.
The loot in the end is not worth it for the most part. While the new set is there the average rewards for opening those chests do not reflect the amount of effort it takes to complete it. The rough astral diamonds in each chest is a small amount even with rerolling for max amounts. This further reduces the incentives for players to stick it out.
Those really are just the major points I have. There are more but its nitpicking and doesn't really matter at this point.
I think renovating Demo was a good idea to bring it back to something relevant but it's execution was lacking. It hasn't done much but divide the community further by item level and by enforcing a "click" mentality with players. Those who make pre-made groups and refuse anyone outside of their extremely small circle of players.
Granted this is just my experience and views. Take it with a grain of salt.
My suggestion would be to remove it from random ques and give some sort of tutorial on its mechanics in the game.
This is one of the biggest reasons why I hate that you put out a "master version" first before an introductory version if you ever put one out at all. You give no opportunity for people to learn the mechanics before ramping up the difficulty.
The Good:
I like the new artifact set. My RNG is terrible but it's still there.
I enjoy the difficulty. Not terribly difficult but punishing enough for a single slip up.
The Bad:
Having it in Random Trial Que at 40k item level is a terrible idea. It limits the player base who can que up significantly more than what it was already. It also highlights issues with the community itself.
DPS players tend to be extremely selfish when it comes to dungeons or trials. This is not to say support classes aren't either, but it shows most prevalently in DPS. The "I NEED TO BE NUMBER 1 ON DAMAGE DONE" mentality really shows through in random Demo. They sacrifice everyone in phase three just to swing away at the boss instead of doing portals. And it's not just 1 or 2 people. It's usually all the DPS. Which is why Demo tends to fail more often than not.
The new mechanics are also not explained in any way, shape or form in the game. Tanks are going in blind and getting one or two tapped regularly because they have no idea how or even to switch aggro. Heck there are a lot of tanks that just won't swap with the other one, making other players essentially solo tank Demo. This slows DPS down a lot due to Demo constantly moving. That in turn leads to fails cause it takes so long the damage on players piles up and they die out.
The loot in the end is not worth it for the most part. While the new set is there the average rewards for opening those chests do not reflect the amount of effort it takes to complete it. The rough astral diamonds in each chest is a small amount even with rerolling for max amounts. This further reduces the incentives for players to stick it out.
Those really are just the major points I have. There are more but its nitpicking and doesn't really matter at this point.
I think renovating Demo was a good idea to bring it back to something relevant but it's execution was lacking. It hasn't done much but divide the community further by item level and by enforcing a "click" mentality with players. Those who make pre-made groups and refuse anyone outside of their extremely small circle of players.
Granted this is just my experience and views. Take it with a grain of salt.
My suggestion would be to remove it from random ques and give some sort of tutorial on its mechanics in the game.
This is one of the biggest reasons why I hate that you put out a "master version" first before an introductory version if you ever put one out at all. You give no opportunity for people to learn the mechanics before ramping up the difficulty.
3
Comments
Should have the best dps work on demo .
We were all 50k Item level .
It was not easy peasy but also wasn’t hard . Everyone picked up each other .
In random que , it’s a waste of time imho . I think the item level requirement for this should be 45k . Even at that , without organization, it will fail .
I agree , it should have a dummied down ( pardon the expression) for the RTQ version .
I also think hp of portals is a lil high
> I assembled a good group yesterday which is what it takes to have positive results in this new trial. On third phase, two DPS on each side for the portals and for DPS banging on the back of the demo Gorgon while the tanks work in tandem with a heealer . Other healer leaves demo once in a while to heal portal dps . 1 dps from each portal side when timing allows , rushes over to demo and launches all artifact , daily and encounters and heads back to help portals .
> Should have the best dps work on demo .
> We were all 50k Item level .
> It was not easy peasy but also wasn’t hard . Everyone picked up each other .
> In random que , it’s a waste of time imho . I think the item level requirement for this should be 45k . Even at that , without organization, it will fail .
> I agree , it should have a dummied down ( pardon the expression) for the RTQ version .
> I also think hp of portals is a lil high
See I don't agree with needing 45k item level in there. It is very possible to complete at 40k item level. It just requires coordination on the players part.
When I talked to them about the intro or "baby" versions of trials coming out they stated they have no intention of releasing them prior to the "master" level ones of they release them at all. A very bad direction if you ask me.
Demo is more of a slow burn these days than anything, which I approve of. Too many people are in a rush these days.
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Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
> Content that has complicated mechanics requiring communication or results failure should not be in any random queue list.
By whose standards do you measure "complicated" though?
I get that people are struggling with Demogorgon right now, but I dropped into an RQ PUG last night and we did just fine. It was HARD WORK... and took a while... but surprisingly no one bailed, and we did it.
If "Point Goristro at the yellow light, and make sure you kill the adds and clear any new ones... and for the love of God stay out of the RED!!" is too complicated to pick up relatively quickly, then I imagine that elevator in CODG must be a Krueger level nightmare for them. (and yeah... you do still see Dragonborn Barbarians trying to squish Gelatinous Cubes the instant they appear but... you know... Dragonborn Barbarians are played for a reason...)
To be fair, I do still see people trying to Pop the White Crystal on Tiamat before the breath attack, I did put that down to them probably being new...
But maybe...
And the Dungeons that DO, have a special queue that says pretty clearly that they are in that queue because they are Advanced Dungeons.
Though having the IL Req for queuing outside the Random Advanced Dungeon Queue set at 20K for TONG and 25 for CR and IC is a bit... sketchy...
I'd hate to be the one who jumped on the RQ and landed Castle Ravenloft with a bunch of novice 27-30K Bards... ("Hey, it says 25K on the queue, that's why we queued specifically for THIS... so we should be fine... right?")
I think some people might be getting a bit salty about not being able to jump on RQ and grab a fast easy run for daily rAD any more, what with demo getting bumped and the RQT IL requirement going up. It was OK carrying a few noobs, when all four trials were easy money but now we have fewer people queuing meaning it takes even longer, and there are STILL noobs getting in to Demo and buggering it up! AND it's harder!
As I recall the (original) rationale for Random Queues was to help players who couldn't get the dungeons and trials they wanted get random groups to attach automatically through the "Random" feature. The bonus for joining a random queue was supposed to be just that, A REWARD, for occasionally having to help some people through content they were struggling with, not a God given right to fast finance.
(I'm pretty sure those original RQ Preview conversations explaining it all are still on here somewhere if anyone needs reminding...)
> But the trials in the random queue don't really HAVE complicated mechanics... They have "Mechanics" but nothing beyond the wit of man to comprehend without a Video walk-through.
> And the Dungeons that DO, have a special queue that says pretty clearly that they are in that queue because they are Advanced Dungeons.
> Though having the IL Req for queuing outside the Random Advanced Dungeon Queue set at 20K for TONG and 25 for CR and IC is a bit... sketchy...
> I'd hate to be the one who jumped on the RQ and landed Castle Ravenloft with a bunch of novice 27-30K Bards... ("Hey, it says 25K on the queue, that's why we queued specifically for THIS... so we should be fine... right?")
>
> I think some people might be getting a bit salty about not being able to jump on RQ and grab a fast easy run for daily rAD any more, what with demo getting bumped and the RQT IL requirement going up. It was OK carrying a few noobs, when all four trials were easy money but now we have fewer people queuing meaning it takes even longer, and there are STILL noobs getting in to Demo and buggering it up! AND it's harder!
>
> As I recall the (original) rationale for Random Queues was to help players who couldn't get the dungeons and trials they wanted get random groups to attach automatically through the "Random" feature. The bonus for joining a random queue was supposed to be just that, A REWARD, for occasionally having to help some people through content they were struggling with, not a God given right to fast finance.
>
> (I'm pretty sure those original RQ Preview conversations explaining it all are still on here somewhere if anyone needs reminding...)
Sorry for the long quote but I'm on my phone, that being said here is my 2 cents...
Yes the Random Ques were designed to allow solo players or lover geared players into dungeons or trials they normally wouldn't be able to do. However the introduction of a 40k Demo into the random que flies in the face of this accessibility for those players.
As it has been said numerous times, the time and resource investment from 30k to 40k is very heavy. Not insurmountable by any means but it is a very long process. This process is made even longer because those players nolonger have access to a reliable source of astrals with that particular que. The advanced que dungeons are riddled with bugs that cause crashes as well as broken mechanics. Thus many don't want to put time into them as it just boots them out anyways.
What's the point of having a random que to give solo or lower geared players a chance at some dungeons or trials if they can't access them in the first place due to such a jump in item level?
More over, while the mechanics of the revamped Demo are not particularly difficult they do require some level of communication, particularly for the tanks. Typing is a very ineffective means of this as it stops you dead in your tracks and by the time you type out your message you die. Not good for the team.
Sure one could pay "extra attention" for some tiny visual ques on what to do but there is a lot happening on screen already. Even worse is the lack of any introduction to how these new mechanics work and how to deal with them. In the old Demo the campaign it was attached to had lighter versions of its mechanics spread throughout its quest lines. Just like most trials really. And if they didn't then there would be audio and textual questions during the action TELLING the player what to do to survive.
A standard response from people might be:
"Go watch a YouTube video on it then."
Two things to that...
1: while a great tool, YouTube is a poor substitute for doing it yourself. There is a vast difference between watching someone play and doing it yourself
2: many of the players who do the YouTube or stream stuff are completely stacked in gear and so are the groups they run with. Constant communication between everyone as well... this is not the average experience for players by any standards. What they can do in those videos is not a standard for everyone.
So I will repeat myself a bit here.. I'm not against the 40k Demo. I love the changes in difficulty for myself personally. But I maintain that it shouldn't be in the random que. It segregates the community even further with the haves and have nots. It's the highest item level trial and just shouldn't be in there. I equate it to releasing VoS and day 1 it's in the Advanced Random Que... totally disaster for everyone. Cuts access for a huge section of the player base and sets most others up for failure after failure.
Players like to have their time and effort rewarded but what good is the reward if you never get to it? The amount of abandoned and shut down Demos these days is very telling that the reward is not worth the effort anymore. And because there are only a few trials in the que the odds of you getting a Demo (particularly one that has failed or had people just leave cause the penalty is better to deal with) are very high. And due to this the que has died off significantly.
Hopefully that gives you a little clearer understanding of how I feel about the new Demo.
For the last few weeks when I was trying with my DC it would just get me the same Demo everyone else had already abandoned and trying to queue again would just bring me back to that. But, I found out that I could just switch to my DPS as the long wait turned out to be a good enough way to mimic the leaver penalty and apparently it turns out to be a good way to avoid getting the same abandoned instance the second time around.
Now, it is a why even bother thing with me and I just solo queue with a DPS.
On the plus side it is no longer just tank all day for the bonus as the healer one has started to show up more often now on all three now. Used to be I had wait for it and now that I no longer solo queue with my healer types it seems to show up more often for longer periods.