Current state of barbarians

bwcom

Are you currently happy with the way barbarians are performing?

They are bug riddled for lots of skills including enchantment bugs such as bilethorn not proccing off skills, etc. Blademaster seems to underperform massively compared to most of the other classes. AoE is limited to at wills as the AoE encounters are not strong enough to use, and even then you have to be up close and hit multiple enemies with an at will - and as all enemies now move to get combat advantage on you, it's near impossible to get a group of mobs in the "sweet spot" to be able to hit them all. Blademaster needs a decent high magnitude aoe attack like fighter dreadnought has.

How can you justify the tank path where you would need to have completely separate gear that other tank classes do not need and even then sentinel tank struggle with aggro because there powers have cooldowns rather that decent aggro skills to begin with. I started rolling with my GWF back in 2016, and not with the intention to play as a blunt tank.

I didn't want to waste another thread for this, but finally: why is there still limits on campaign currencies? I understand you changed some into adventures to make them quicker but other older campaigns are still locked by a weekly limit when there is no need for them to be. Look forward to hearing back, but I highly doubt Devs will read this, yet alone reply.

I know changes were necessary, but compared to how things are looking now, I miss pre-mod16.

admiralwarlord

I can only opine as DPS, as I refuse to play the class as a tank. The class does good damage, of course, as it has skills with a lot of magnitude. With the changes in Mod 16 the class was clearly unbalanced as it lost its temporary HP (it was something very strong but necessary), loss of damage resistance without Douring Shoult (now only when rage is active) in addition to the stamina regen via Fury Battle was something that existed and now doesn't exist when the game demands more mobility. Among other many peculiarities, it is the only class that has no control over its skill. Only 2 viable class features and most horrible feat's to be polite. But the dev decided to look at the CW now, maybe 2 modules from now on he looks at another class and maybe we'll be covered.

rikitaki

Double jumpy Leap is actually a helluva good AoE encounter power. And the AoE at-will is pretty much the best in the whole game. In tandem, they solve any trouble.

The tank paragon has issues with aggro only if there are broken items in the game - or party rushes ahead. As you said, the cool-down is a bit tricky to manage. But otherwise, I found barb tank the most user friendly out there (thanks to massive stamina regeneration other classes can only dream about.)

So, imo, the wizard really needs a fix more than the barbarian.

admiralwarlord

rikitaki said:

Double jumpy Leap is actually a helluva good AoE encounter power. And the AoE at-will is pretty much the best in the whole game. In tandem, they solve any trouble.

The tank paragon has issues with aggro only if there are broken items in the game - or party rushes ahead. As you said, the cool-down is a bit tricky to manage. But otherwise, I found barb tank the most user friendly out there (thanks to massive stamina regeneration other classes can only dream about.)

So, imo, the wizard really needs a fix more than the barbarian.

Double jumpy Leap can do a lot of damage, yes, but there is not always enough space or time to do it, not to mention that there is still a risk of jumping into a location that is also being targeted by an enemy, something recurrent in Maze in VoS for example. And what is the use of having better at-will aoe if it is locked in its mechanics and the class does not have mobility to use it? Clearly you don't play GWF to comment on the class and I only mentioned the CW class as being the one chosen at the time, but this one didn't even stay in limbo as long as GWF has been.

silente07

All tanks need a separate set of gear and enchants for their different paragon paths.
ALL
It’s a pain in the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> because it’s equivalent to having two toons. They need different insignias, companions and all the gear that goes with it.

rikitaki

@admiralwarlord Look, I do not care if you believe it or not, but I do have a barbarian. And in a direct comparison of equally geared barb versus wizard, wizard is a misery to play.

Yes, barb has a downside of being a melee class with messed-up responsiveness of the "run" ability, but it is miles ahead in performance in terms of AoE even if he uses just the at-will. That much better its state is. (Do you even realize the only AoE at-will of wizard is a charge-up power? You complain you have to stand on the right spot while attacking - and say it is worse than not being able to attack at all?)

In terms of single target, again... melee class has downsides, sure, but reworking barb into an axe-thrower would be silly.

armadeonx

rikitaki said:

@admiralwarlord Look, I do not care if you believe it or not, but I do have a barbarian. And in a direct comparison of equally geared barb versus wizard, wizard is a misery to play.

Yes, barb has a downside of being a melee class with messed-up responsiveness of the "run" ability, but it is miles ahead in performance in terms of AoE even if he uses just the at-will. That much better its state is. (Do you even realize the only AoE at-will of wizard is a charge-up power? You complain you have to stand on the right spot while attacking - and say it is worse than not being able to attack at all?)

In terms of single target, again... melee class has downsides, sure, but reworking barb into an axe-thrower would be silly.

not to mention the magnitude difference between the wizard and barb aoe at-wills

wilbur626

silente07#2597 said:

All tanks need a separate set of gear and enchants for their different paragon paths.
ALL
It’s a pain in the HAMSTER because it’s equivalent to having two toons. They need different insignias, companions and all the gear that goes with it.

The only difference between my Sentinel and Blademaster loadouts is 1 ring, 1 chest armor and 2 companions and both loadouts are more than good enough for all content currently in the game. I think the problem is how players choose to distribute stats when gearing their toons.

Blademaster loadout :



Sentinel loadout :

bwcom said:

How can you justify the tank path where you would need to have completely separate gear that other tank classes do not need and even then sentinel tank struggle with aggro because there powers have cooldowns rather that decent aggro skills to begin with. I started rolling with my GWF back in 2016, and not with the intention to play as a blunt tank.

Regarding Sentinel threat generation :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLgb6m0oBIY

At 1:30 in this video you can see the following happen ::



The extreme survivability of the Sentinel lets you focus a lot more on offensive stats than the other tanks, and using the strong tools the Sentinel has for threat generation correctly is key.

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wilbur626

@arkhadiam#2543

1. The video shows out of combat stats, the screenshot shows stat in combat. That you are able to observe what I’m showing you is impressive.

2. Another excellent observation.

3. I need help finding the red bars that there are too many of, can you provide time stamps ?

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armadeonx

@arkhadiam#2543

Erm, you pose a potential variable "Are those the best DPSs there are on PC?" as a question, then state it as a fact in your conclusion; " some problems to maintain aggro against DPS that are not HDPs either." So drawing a 'fact' based on nothing but your own assumption/question.

You also compliment him on his stats (buffed) whilst criticising the fact that he's showing buffed stats but also criticise that aggro blips red on the dps - the same dps you somehow concluded are not HDPS even though they are blipping threat from a tank who's stats you'd previously complimented (and criticised).

Did any of the DPS hold aggro long enough to get attacked? Was the run time too slow? (a better measure of the damage output of a group). It seems to me that you're juggling assumptions for the purpose of attempting to prove some point that you actually failed to mention...

wilbur626

> @arkhadiam#2543 said:
> @wilbur626 Sure
>
> 0:15 - Pineaple
> 0:18 - Adyssa
> 0:27 - Adyssa
> 1:00 - Adyssa
> 1:01 - Spoomie
> 1:03 - Adyssa (orange bar)
> 1:13 - Spoomie
> 1:14 - Adyssa (2 times)
> 1:16 - Adyssa (orange bar)
> 1:26 - Adyssa (orange bar)
> 1:52 - Castiel
> 1:54 - Spoomie
> 2:24 - Pineapple
> 2:53 - Spoomie
>
> If you also need help to find the yellow bars, I can also provide them.
>
> Regards

Why does DPS having aggro from adds that die within milliseconds matter?

Edit :
You say you don’t understand what I’m trying to show even when I reply to spesific comments and even provide an info graphic explaining EXACTLY what I’m trying to show.

admiralwarlord

I was going to write a post analyzing how the so-called BIS is not BIS for everything as many people imagine. As I mentioned the CW, I will tell a little story of how the experience "in game" made me reflect and learn about the functionality of classes.

One day while I was doing TICon my GF Tank I got annoyed with a CW using Repel and I asked him why he is doing this, as he was messing up everything my class was originally designed to do: get aggro, group the mobs, generate combat advantage which is improved with the application of 2 debuff's Enforced Threat + Dulled Senses (Companion Enhancement Power) and he replied that he played with an ST build so he could do some damage, and he would only get that if he activated the Ribcage and Goristro Horn's bonus. I found his argument valid and started thinking about alternatives to this issue as I also have a CW and I realized that this issue also affected my GWF. My conclusion was that Ribcage is only BIS in aoe builds for a few classes, for most it's horrible. One of the reasons it is horrible is that it doesn't work as promised, I did a test on my GWF using a sensational combo, Mighty Leap + Roar + Relenthless Slash + Hidden Daggers and finishing with Mighty Leap, this combo damage with multiple buffs it did I deal practically the damage of a Daily Power at the end of the rotation activates only 1 charge of the Ribcage and the same happens when you use the Daily power Avalanche of Steel. If it's a bug, it needs to be fixed. Meanwhile classes like HR that everyone says is the strongest in the game can activate the 5 armor bonus charges very easily, and this probably applies to all stacked gear. Do you understand now what is causing the imbalance between the classes?

Is this the end of the world for classes that don't activate the Ribcage bonus? Not! There are options for that. The game hasn't helped with the new equipment released, but for the sake of example I'm wearing the Hag's Rags armor on my CW which only became possible because I have the VoS ring ''The Red Eye's Glare'' as in my perception builds aoe are strong when you already have the fixed stats of Power, Critical Severity and Critical Strike in that order or very easy to acquire as is the case with a CW wearing the LoMM helmet with disintegrate.

Just to finish, damage is a better option than any stat, just see the price difference between Bilethorn and Vorpal for example. So it's no use showing images from a GWF with multiple status caps if it doesn't use Overpenetration.

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wilbur626

> @arkhadiam#2543 said:
> @armadeonx
>
> I think my point is pretty clear ...
>
> - This area is not the best to test the aggro capacity of any tank since the DPSs are in AoE / Mobs mode and therefore, they generate less aggro. ... Even so, the tank has trouble holding the aggro.
>
> - That team is also not the best to test aggro ability since the DPSs do not do enough damage. It is not an assumption. A good team is able to reach the panther directly in 2-3 secs at the beginning or when the boss returns. This is not the case, and even so, the tank has trouble holding the aggro.
>
> *** Conclusion ***
> With a team that does real damage, and in a "single target" situation where DPS generates more aggro .... good luck.
>
> P, S: yes, even for a moment, that the DPSs have aggro in that part of the dungeon is problematic. If you have done VoS you will know why.
>
> ------------------------
> Lol .. you had trouble finding those "bars" and when I show them to you .. don't you care? ... xD
> Well ... precisely in that part of the dungeon if it matters ... Lol
>
> But hey ... if you are happy/satisfied with the performance that your sentinel shows.... Okay. Glad to hear it.
>
> Regards

I pointed out a very spesific event happening at a specified time in the video linked. You don’t even have to watch the video as I made a picture with all the important information.

The DPS, the adds and all the other information in the video is not at all relevant to my answer. The fact that you focus on other information that what is relevant, almost makes it look like you don’t intend to to give any feedback relevant to the discussion.

Let me sum it up for you, so that it is easier for you to understand :

1. You can do just fine with one set of gear for both tanking and DPSing in all current content. Focus on the words “just fine”, not to be confused with the one and only way to play.

2. Sentinel threat generation is more than good enough if played correctly. I don’t main a sentinel myself, but I’m able to do all content that I can do on my Fighter and Paladin tanks.

You also seem a bit confused by the difference between out of combat and in combat stat distributions. In the current dungeons/trials there are very few situations where the tank actually needs to buff defensive stats to survive. This is why I tend to invest in defensive stats up to the level where the rest can be obtained from pressing one of the 6 buttons used to control player powers.. If this does not match the way you balance stats for your epeen-comparisons in Protectora Enclave, that is fine by me 😊