Whisperknife suggestions, please support :)

nibs

I am a dedicated WK player, here are my suggestions i think will help help WK be more viable. Although i enjoy the WK, i also witness why it is a weak class in a lot of situations. I hope my suggestions will get looked at by the devs. I have made suggestions in the past but honestly some of those were terrible. I was new and enthusiastic. Been playing a lot longer and feel i am more practical and understanding of the mechanics and this particular paragon path/class overall.

- At-Wills -

Shuriken Toss: Faster cast time. Add additional effect if in stealth. Stealth effect suggestions > has a chance to add a DoT - If stealthed add an extra 10 magnitude damage - If targets are all in close radius then the shuriken has x amount chance to ricochet an extra time.

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- Encounters -

Shadowy Disappearance(SD):
SD should trigger class feature 'Talisman Of Shadows' as when casting SD you enter Stealth.
'Talisman of Shadows' > "when you enter STEALTH you daze and slow foes" <

Shadowy Disappearance(SD):
SD should trigger class feature 'advantageous Position' as SD exits Stealth.
'Advantageous Position' > "for 5 seconds after leaving STEALTH, you maintain combat advantage" <

Vengeance's Pursuit(VP):
The least used Encounter by the few WK players out there, i feel, and i wonder if any other WK players out there agree that this could easily be replaced with a better Encounter. Anyone that says "oh it's good for etc", i'd asked them, let me see your WK build and let me see you use VP as a staple in your build.. they won't. Should be replaced with an AOE to support the WK. The follow up "AOE" effect is absolutely tiny and weak. WK has more AOE opportunity, it would be nice to see that aspect supported as the assassin tree has the single target down very well.

Class Features 'Advantageous Position' and 'Talisman Of Shadows' are supposed to trigger when entering or leaving stealth, but these do not trigger when using Encounter power 'Shadowy Disappearance' which puts you into stealth for 1.5 seconds.

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- Class Features -

Razor Action:
RA should trigger on Artifact use, not Daily Power, it's too slow. To balance it out lower the magnitude damage of Razor Action to 150 from 200

Talisman Of Shadows:
Increase duration to 1.5 seconds. Additional - Foes hit during this time take 3% more damage. Or apply a bleed to foes hit during this time etc.

Talisman Of Shadows seems like it does almost nothing. It also seems to have a delay. So when you enter stealth it takes about 0.5 of a second to trigger and from what i can tell you only daze foes for the remaining .5 second left after the delay.

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- Feats -

Shadowy Opportunity:
Raise Damage from 15% to 25%-35% depending on how close the enemy is. Increase the duration from 5 seconds to 7 seconds.

GutterBorn's Touch:
Apply an additional effect. Effect suggestion > increase stealth regeneration by 0.5% per foe hit during GutterBorns's Touch. Increase duration from 5 seconds to 6 seconds. Increase damage from 5% to 6%.

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- Daily powers -

Lurkers Assault:
Increase duration from 10s to 15s.

Killing Storm:
Killing Storm needs to trigger more hits. At times it hardly hits anyone to make it worth using. Increase the -5% awareness debuff to -10% awareness.

groo

Pre mod 16, I used to much prefer WK even though that paragon has never been effective compared to the other (can't remember what the assassin paragon was called pre mod 16), I just much preferred the play style (plus I really hate the animation for the duellist flurry at-will and the fact that enemy sometimes just walk away in the middle of the animation leaving you stabbing the air, lol).

The two things that stand out to me comparing Assassin to WK are:

Duellist flurry. Whilst on paper, it doesn't look to much different (damage-wise) to the WK offerings. In reality (and perhaps due to the bleed effect?), it is way, way more effective than any of the WK offerings (in fact, it seems pretty effective compared to the at-wills of any class).

Stealth. Due to the options available in the assassin paragon, stealth can regenerate way, way faster. In practical terms, it means you can take advantage of stealth bonuses far more effectively in the assassin paragon.

Anecdotally, I assume one of the reasons WK is less effective damage-wise is because the WK paragon seems to be based more around ranged attacks than melee and the theory is that you are trading damage for safety compared to a melee class.

One of the disappointing things for me (but no fault of the game) is that one of the reasons you choose a particular paragon is you want a different play style. However, as the first four encounters are the same for both and if those are the most effective powers, it can feel like there isn't much of a difference using either paragon, so you end up just picking the most effective overall. I've tried the various powers under WK and the first few powers still provide a pretty effective amount of damage compared to the WK specific encounters, but due to my initial comments, you just produce less damage overall.

I have two rogue alts and have left each in the opposing paragon. I use the assassin alt if I want to be effective and the WK alt if I want to have a bit of variation. They are not my main and so are at a similar level stats/armour-wise. However, The difference on the dps leader board if I go into a dungeon with them is like chalk and cheese. The WK alt doesn't even come close to the assassin.

I have tried various combinations of powers in the WK paragon but haven't managed to come anywhere close to the assassin paragon for comparative damage. In the end, I went down the complete ranged powers route, which is ok and I enjoy it for a bit of variation in play style.

As for your suggestions, my only comments would be;

Shuriken Toss. Due to the uptime of stealth not being that great under WK, I feel this still wouldn't be as effective as duellist flurry (I accept ST is multi-target though).

Razor Action. I agree AP gain isn't as good as it used to be pre-mod 16. However, I would also note that not everyone will have a mythic artefact and therefore AP gain could rival recharge speeds on lower grade artefacts (that is purely speculative on my part though as I've never tested it).

horizonxael

the WK and a basket or card game class here is my opinion on this path useless no damage useless powers and slow absolute slow slow and harmless.

groo

Is that a WicKer basket?

horizonxael

groo#6243 said:

Is that a WicKer basket?

yes archer and warlock do best

nibs

@groo i agree with everything you said and have experienced it all as a dedicated WK player. The fact the WK can't generate stealth fast enough to take advantage of Shadowy Opportunity (when you leave stealth gain etc). You also can't utilise Gutterborns Touch. On top of that Shadowy opportunity only gives you 15% weapon damage, which is weak, and it's only for 5 seconds.

The other problem i am having with WK is if Gutterborns Touch or Shadowy Opportunity triggers, and IF i am able to sometimes leave stealth or refresh my combat advantage within the 5 seconds Gutterborns/Shadowy are active i don't think it refreshes the effect. So then i can't get them to trigger for a whole long time after that.. wasted. I want Cryptic to make it possible that if either of those two effects are triggered and i meet the requirements for them to trigger again within the 5 seconds they are active, it just refreshes the effect, i mean it's not easy as a WK to generate stealth as it is, so if i can juggle the effect i should be rewarded for that, but to rob me of the effect just because the effect was already active.. But for all i know it does refresh the effect if it is already active, if not it should.

And you are right, the At-Wills for WK are weak. Shuriken Toss is ok, but can be improved with an added effect. Disheartening Strike should outright be replaced. I suggested DS be replaced with some kind of evasive action, like a shadow slip that has a 1.5 second cool down. So if you're surrounded by foes it can shift you to the outside of the foes, maybe during the shadow slip you gain some deflect or something. It'll be a good way to avoid combat advantage damage and move you out of danger. The distance it moves you is right behind the foes, if the crowd is too big you just end up in the middle of them still, so it only has a small radius. It also turns you so you're facing the back of the foe, maybe get at least one CA hit in before the foes turn around.

The problem with WK being based around ranged attacks is, ALL THE FOES SWAMP YOU IN SECONDS. Ranger can do range well, but WK can't. WL has the tools to be more small AOE based, so Cryptic should improve WKs AOE. Remove impact shot and give WK a decent new AOE. I really believe WK has small AOE potential. I keep my fingers crossed the devs are tinkering away at this paragon.

And again you're right, for the WK i end up using two encounters available for both paragons as they're the most effective, meaning unlocking the others was not as fun as i had hoped. Pleeease Cryptic give WK a new AOE encounter.

Shuriken Toss could have "ricochet hit has a 10% chance to refill 1% of your stealth meter(can not happen if in stealth)". Or 1% of your action points. There's lots of ideas.

@horizonxael exactly.. but i still enjoy this class, just wish it could be effective and helpful in dungeons etc

armadeonx

I'd like to see them adding an encounter that places a trap on the floor (rogues can disarm them, why not place them too?)

That way you can attack from range, enemies rush you - straight into a trap...

nibs

@armadeonx

Good idea, but it will have to be done properly. So here is how it could possible work. The Encounter is like an upgrade or replacement option for smoke bomb. It could be a snare trap.

But it would have to be practical, there's no point creating a new encounter if it just doesn't do better than encounters like smoke bomb or path of blade. It could replace Impact Shot, and as it would be the second to last encounter you unlock it should be worth it and exciting to unlock.

You would have to be able to throw the trap down the same way you do the smoke bomb, if you have to actually crouch down few a few seconds to lay it, it would be useless. A kneeling down animation would be too long and in a dungeon you would be over run and have half your health gone in seconds, so it would have to be able to be thrown down like the smoke bomb.

The snare trap could, when a foe or group of foes walk over it in its "inactive area of effect", could sprout out an array of snares(barbed wire etc) that trigger the "held/immobile" effect and engulf/expand to grabbed anyone in an area of about 10'. The inactive traps radius could be the same as that as traps in dungeons(so a foe would have to walk over that area to trigger it), but when activated the radius of the snares wire traps could engulf and hold foes in a radius of about 10', pulling any foes in that area at the time it is triggered towards the centre of the trap for 2-3 seconds.

It should have a "held/immobilize" effect of about 2-3 seconds. This gives the WK both a good AOE, good control(possibly even CA) plus it means WK can use it's range abilities by rolling back and launching Shurikens at the foes while ensnared. So here we have an encounter that compliments small aoe, control, and a way to get some ranged attacks in.


Complications with this encounter though. If you throw the trap down and no foe walks over it, what happens to the encounter cooldown, it can't not cooldown until the trap triggers, this would leave you with just two usable encounters.
You also couldn't throw down a trap and then if not triggered lay another one, and another etc etc that'll be too broken. My solution would be this, when you throw down a trap the cooldown starts as normal, if by the time your encounter is ready again and you use it, the other untriggered trap either just triggers or disappears/cancels. This way you can never have more than one trap down.

Also you are immune to the trap just like you are to smoke bomb and every other power like all classes are to their own powers.

Add a DoT to those getting cut up in the snare trap. Add an effect if used whilst stealthed.

So it would have to be fast to place like the smoke bomb when you're surrounded, have a decent active area of effect/smaller inactive area to trigger(this way you can either lead foes into the trap and run into packs of foes and throw it down, then roll back and use daggers/shurikens etc. Add DoT/bleed and have the immobile/held status triggered for companion bonuses options to be used. If the output damage is mainly DoT which isn't very high, the encounter should have a smaller cooldown as it'll be more control based rather than damaged based. If it has a relatively medium to high damage output then the cooldown should be appropriate for that.

armadeonx

It could possibly have 3 uses like the rangers cordon of arrows?

nibs

I had to look that Ranger Encounter up as i don't know any other classes powers. I'd prefer it to be a one use power, if it has more than one use than it's extra additional info would be "can be used 3 three times", i find that quite boring plus the power/control level would have to be reduced, leaving WK again to be not very effective at causing damage. A one time use that has a good 3second root effect with a bleed/DoT for those ensnared in the trap. Add an additional effect if used in stealth, don't know what though?. Could be "if used while stealthed, when trap is triggered the cooldown of this power is reduced by 2 seconds". Or "if used while stealthed trap is embroiled in poison".

horizonxael

he was my first pg and my very old accaunt and he was the first to give up because of that path the only good thing is the shuriken but you still crack with mobs moving at the speed of light cryptic has never corrected.

rockster

armadeonx said:

I'd like to see them adding an encounter that places a trap on the floor (rogues can disarm them, why not place them too?)

That way you can attack from range, enemies rush you - straight into a trap...

This would be in line with the Rod of Imperial Restraint artifact which you can target at an enemy from a distance and it throws-out an area in which besides the main target, anyone who enters the area is captured briefly also, so it's a concept which has already existed in the game since the start so I think isn't that strange or unheard-of and your idea should be considered.