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Whisperknife suggestions from a dedicated WK player, please support.
At-Wills -
Shuriken Toss: Faster cast time. Add additional effect if in stealth. Stealth effect suggestions > has a chance to add a DoT - If stealthed add an extra 10 magnitude damage - If targets are all in close radius then the shuriken has x amount chance to ricochet an extra time.
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- Encounters -
Shadowy Disappearance(SD):
SD should trigger class feature 'Talisman Of Shadows' as when casting SD you enter Stealth.
'Talisman of Shadows' > "when you enter STEALTH you daze and slow foes" <
Shadowy Disappearance(SD):
SD should trigger class feature 'advantageous Position' as SD exits Stealth.
'Advantageous Position' > "for 5 seconds after leaving STEALTH, you maintain combat advantage" <
Class Features 'Advantageous Position' and 'Talisman Of Shadows' are supposed to trigger when entering or leaving stealth, but these do not trigger when using Encounter power 'Shadowy Disappearance' which puts you into stealth for 1.5 seconds.
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- Class Features -
Talisman Of Shadows:
Increase duration to 1.5 seconds. Additional - Foes hit during this time take 3% more damage. Or apply a bleed to foes hit during this time etc.
Talisman Of Shadows seems like it does almost nothing. It also seems to have a delay. So when you enter stealth it takes about 0.5 of a second to trigger and from what i can tell you only daze foes for the remaining .5 second left after the delay.
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- Feats -
Shadowy Opportunity:
Raise Damage from 15% to 25%-35% depending on how close the enemy is. Increase the duration from 5 seconds to 7 seconds.
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Shuriken Toss: Faster cast time. Add additional effect if in stealth. Stealth effect suggestions > has a chance to add a DoT - If stealthed add an extra 10 magnitude damage - If targets are all in close radius then the shuriken has x amount chance to ricochet an extra time.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Encounters -
Shadowy Disappearance(SD):
SD should trigger class feature 'Talisman Of Shadows' as when casting SD you enter Stealth.
'Talisman of Shadows' > "when you enter STEALTH you daze and slow foes" <
Shadowy Disappearance(SD):
SD should trigger class feature 'advantageous Position' as SD exits Stealth.
'Advantageous Position' > "for 5 seconds after leaving STEALTH, you maintain combat advantage" <
Class Features 'Advantageous Position' and 'Talisman Of Shadows' are supposed to trigger when entering or leaving stealth, but these do not trigger when using Encounter power 'Shadowy Disappearance' which puts you into stealth for 1.5 seconds.
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- Class Features -
Talisman Of Shadows:
Increase duration to 1.5 seconds. Additional - Foes hit during this time take 3% more damage. Or apply a bleed to foes hit during this time etc.
Talisman Of Shadows seems like it does almost nothing. It also seems to have a delay. So when you enter stealth it takes about 0.5 of a second to trigger and from what i can tell you only daze foes for the remaining .5 second left after the delay.
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- Feats -
Shadowy Opportunity:
Raise Damage from 15% to 25%-35% depending on how close the enemy is. Increase the duration from 5 seconds to 7 seconds.
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Post edited by nibs#8955 on
2
Comments
For PVP WKs, they outnumbered assassins in PVP throughout much of mod 19 on PC, and were also big on xbox for longer than that. In mod 20 PVP, assassins currently outnumber WKs but both are still viable in solo que. I can easily swap between these 2 specs in PVP, they use the same gear/stats as eachother this mod and only thing different is powers, feats, and how/when to play them.
You had mentioned vengeance's pursuit being rarely used by WKs, which makes sense for PVE. Though interestingly this is a bread and butter power in PVP for WK. All PVP WKs run vengeance's pursuit and shadow strike. The 3rd encounter power pick can vary a lot, but most commonly is the user's choice of bait and switch, impact shot, or smokebomb; shadowy disappearance is also viable but rarely picked. I usually do smokebomb these days since my WK is nearly maxed out and needs to be able to defend teammates on the go and cut down on enemy CC effects in most matches.
I'd love having a faster shuriken toss. For PVE, WK probably needs better at will dps in general if it wants to stand a chance in single target fights vs assassin.
A specific weakness for WK is its long stealth recharge time and the fact that rogues still lose some stealth recharge progress whenever they take damage, it isn't just slowed; this is very significant in PVP and I'd imagine it would also cause issues with WK single target rotations in PVE. WK damage bonuses are tied to stealth. In PVP, it takes around 22 secs on average to regenerate your stealth, you often have to flee and come back because enemies can just keep applying consistent damage to you to delay you from reentering stealth, which is often fatal for the WK.
To an extent, PVP WK's dependence on doing massive dps per rotation followed by a very long wait is an interesting way to play, but it also makes WK's cons a lot more punishing than for assassin, which makes WK unsafe to run in many situations. The stealth loss upon taking damage thing also makes it harder for the devs to keep both rogue paths competitive with the other classes in PVP without giving us ridiculously huge amounts of damage per rotation and causing an outcry.
Both rogue paragons have problems in PVP competing with 4 of the other classes in mod 20. Any class that can consistently keep doing damage with little to no downtime (warlock, wizard, fighter, ranger) and has good sustain has a significantly easier time winning games than rogue does right now.
Assassin is safe to run in pretty much any match, they have better sustain than WK due to their shorter stealth recharge time. In solo que, an assassin compared to an equal skill WK would win slightly more games than the WK would, but both would be close enough together to compete with eachother still. WK you have to be more careful about when you run it, it can be even more powerful than assassin in some games, but in others it can be completely crippled by the enemy players.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
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Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
#1: Remove Vengeance Pursuit and replace it with either an AoE OR a ST encounter.
#2: Give us a longer time frame to stack DPS for SoD (since we FINALLY have it)
#3: Give us higher magnitude on our encounters (us being ranged is not an excuse for lower DPS values)
#4: For all the feats give us longer time frames (5 seconds is not a long period of time)
Now this migght seem to be asking for a lot, but when you look at the assassin, they excel at quick HIGH magnitude strikes. As WKs we overall, are meant to be the "vengeance seekers", whereas assassin's should be the masters of DoT damage. People who claim to know WK ONLY see it as a PvP paragon. I never PvP since it's gear dependant, so I always run PvE since I enjoy that more and that's what the game is trending toward. If the devs want to give us the true paragon of "vengeance seekers" ggive us the toolkit for it. I use VP for CC removal and to get out of red areas, which is useful.
But I digress, my love for the paragon goes far beyond our toolkit. It speaks to me in a way that assassin (previously Master Infiltrator) never did. I LOVE being long range since I can stealth and use my abilities at the same time. And dev's (nitocris I know you'll be scouring the forums at some point this week) PLEASE make Disheartening Strike's DoT higher magnitude, it's a laughable at-will to be begin with.
I've been playing WK since 2015, I loved the feat trees more than what we have now since there's no flexibility.
As i have said before i am not a fan of just buffing the damage of a mechanic, i prefer adding mechanics that require more skill and thought and pay off if you learn the path/class.
Here are ways to improve Shadowy Disappearance (obviously i wouldn't expect all ideas to be considered).
1) Shadowy Disappearance: It should also damage foes that are in the path/line of your teleport. Even if it's an aplied effect, "if not stealthed, also damage foes in your line off travel".
2) Shadowy Disappearance: should also trigger Talisman of shadows as it meets the requirements of entering stealth.
3) Shadowy Disappearance: Should trigger Advantageous Position seeing as you meet the requirements to lose stealth.
So to pick just one(as nothing needs to be broken op), to me number 1 is the best, it damages foes in your line of travel aswell as you enter and exit points, so much fun.
Talisman Of Shadows is terrible, it does nothing, it also obviously has no effect on bosses. It is the last feather you unlock and arguably the worst of both assassin and WK path. Change it, fix it.. just make something worth considering be there
Dagger threat i would buff, from 7.5% to 10%.
Shuriken Toss: increase cast time. Add effect if stealthed.
Disheartening Strike: needs to feel more impactful all round, i still think it could be replace with some kind of shadow slip that shifts you to the outside of foes that are right next to you surrounding you(as long as they're close to you as the shadow slip should only be a short shift), it could eat 1% of your stealth each time you use it, it also helps you get back into CA position. You just point in the direction you want to slip and it automatically turns you to face them once on the outside of them.
Feat - Shadow Opportunity, raise to at least 6 seconds, raise to additional 20% damage.
Feat - Gutterborn's touch, could also include your radius powers get buffed.
WK doesn't seem to be able to utilize stealth aswell as Assassin, i've seen a lot of people saying this is what put them off the WK.
a)
I DO use Vengeance Pursuit, its fine and interesting. When you need an aoe use it non stealthed, when you need boss ST damage use it stealthed.
b) I use Shadow of Demise, and Ambusher. Gutterborn and One with shadows not my thing.
I can agree that shirken need more damage and faster cast times so we can compete with the other aoe classses when mob smashing, however I like using disheartening strike as my second skill most times. It would be nice if it did some aoe cloud damage like fire or poison in addition to the debuff on target.
Blitz needs a damage boost even if its only for the "center" blade. For single target uses when trying to add damage during my SoD 5 secs it would be nice for blitz to add more.
For me the biggest thing would be if you could give WK a little more stealth regen that would help immensely. I would not have to use Shadow Strike all the time to increase stealth bar and then can use it in SoD rotation more often. Also by increasing stealth regen I can have more SoD's trigger. While we do have a power that does this its not my choice of powers because i need the range damage power and I need advantageous position. Pretty much all of the other powers are useless like talisman, ap gain, movment speed ones.