This is a video of a Hero who is a Barbarian in Dota 2, while we GWF only get the Barbarian Title. For comparison, we're more like a Juggernaut than a Troll Warlord.
Switching the XP gain boon to movement may ease our suffering a little, but I will continue to say that I play GWF, because that's what we are!
If I were to compare, I would say that my view of the barbarian is more like Huskar. Jumping on enemies' necks, mechanics with loss of life, punitive when close to death. A real berserker. Except at-will (Sure Strike R.I.P) and Steel Blitz, nothing in the class currently makes sense.
Huskar's strength is its auto-regeneration passive that works very well with lifesteal, which is unfeasible for the class and the way the adjustments were made (removal of regeneration when in combat and lifesteal). If a faithful analysis is done, we are a mix of Sven with his huge sword ( Battlerage = God's Strength) + Jugg (Spinning Strike + Crescendo = Blade fury + Omnislash) and the Beastmaster with Roar. Note that the Beasmater who is also a Barbarian like the Troll Warlord also has 2 axes, while Sven and Jugg are specialized sword warriors (Blademaster lol).
This is a video of a Hero who is a Barbarian in Dota 2, while we GWF only get the Barbarian Title. For comparison, we're more like a Juggernaut than a Troll Warlord.
Switching the XP gain boon to movement may ease our suffering a little, but I will continue to say that I play GWF, because that's what we are!
If I were to compare, I would say that my view of the barbarian is more like Huskar. Jumping on enemies' necks, mechanics with loss of life, punitive when close to death. A real berserker. Except at-will (Sure Strike R.I.P) and Steel Blitz, nothing in the class currently makes sense.
Man, I'm not going to philosophize about it. But I always thought that playing melee in games like action rpg or moba is related to one's character. Now I'm leaving GWF (necessarily) and playing Assasin as dps. Yes, Assassin is a fun class in its own way. But it does not give the pleasure of getting close and killing the enemies with only arm-power. So those of us who like to play this class are somehow accustomed to positioning themselves carefully and dealing damage to multiple enemies at once. Instead of taking a strategic approach with Encounters, we like to be some sort of high-damage off-tank using encounters to buff oneself. In the meantime, we also like to take damage. Actually, the reason I played newerwinter was because I found it very clever to increase rage metter as I take damage. Because, as I said, I think it reflects my character. So, although the game has an unrealistic and fantastic background, logically, someone who carries a huge weapon with their hands will want to swing it. He will expend energy with each swing and shout with determination. That scream becomes the encounter power. He will run and get tired, he will shout again as he collects his breath. And this scream becomes the encounter power. He will find himself among ten enemies and will shout by challenging them. And this scream becomes the encounter power which toughens him. So on the battlefield, there is always someone like that in front of friends shooting arrows behind. Does not anyone get inspiration from the Battle of Stamford Bridge too? So if really needed; I wish they'd keep GWF damage low but increase his mobility and provide solutions to increase it's defense. So that we can create opportunities for ourselves to wreak havoc on the battlefield and catch up with others.
The sad thing is that they pruned this great mechanic to fit the bigger picture of the game. I've never written such a long post on any gaming forum in my life. I really hope that one day they will understand what we mean and at least return to a mechanic that reflects the true Gwf spirit, where we can compete with other classes. I understand how difficult it is to present everything in a great balance in an environment where the action is very fast and there are many variables. But gwf must be mobile, period. Gwf should have meaningful encounters to buff at-will damage, period. Gwf is not a strategist; his problem is not to accumulate action points and intervene when necessary, this is the assasin's job. Gwf must be fighting hand to hand all the time.
I totally agree. In all my discussions I never said anything about buffing the class at the expense of others. But it is a fact that the entire synergy of the class is out of line, Encounter, Feats and Features. I also don't want to philosophize about comparisons with other platforms, but as you said, the feeling of the heat of battle that is playing with the barbarian on the front lines has been lost. I am currently using the Elven Battle enchantment to see if my movement improves a bit. Sad.
This is a video of a Hero who is a Barbarian in Dota 2, while we GWF only get the Barbarian Title. For comparison, we're more like a Juggernaut than a Troll Warlord.
Switching the XP gain boon to movement may ease our suffering a little, but I will continue to say that I play GWF, because that's what we are!
If I were to compare, I would say that my view of the barbarian is more like Huskar. Jumping on enemies' necks, mechanics with loss of life, punitive when close to death. A real berserker. Except at-will (Sure Strike R.I.P) and Steel Blitz, nothing in the class currently makes sense.
Man, I'm not going to philosophize about it. But I always thought that playing melee in games like action rpg or moba is related to one's character. Now I'm leaving GWF (necessarily) and playing Assasin as dps. Yes, Assassin is a fun class in its own way. But it does not give the pleasure of getting close and killing the enemies with only arm-power. So those of us who like to play this class are somehow accustomed to positioning themselves carefully and dealing damage to multiple enemies at once. Instead of taking a strategic approach with Encounters, we like to be some sort of high-damage off-tank using encounters to buff oneself. In the meantime, we also like to take damage. Actually, the reason I played newerwinter was because I found it very clever to increase rage metter as I take damage. Because, as I said, I think it reflects my character. So, although the game has an unrealistic and fantastic background, logically, someone who carries a huge weapon with their hands will want to swing it. He will expend energy with each swing and shout with determination. That scream becomes the encounter power. He will run and get tired, he will shout again as he collects his breath. And this scream becomes the encounter power. He will find himself among ten enemies and will shout by challenging them. And this scream becomes the encounter power which toughens him. So on the battlefield, there is always someone like that in front of friends shooting arrows behind. Does not anyone get inspiration from the Battle of Stamford Bridge too? So if really needed; I wish they'd keep GWF damage low but increase his mobility and provide solutions to increase it's defense. So that we can create opportunities for ourselves to wreak havoc on the battlefield and catch up with others.
The sad thing is that they pruned this great mechanic to fit the bigger picture of the game. I've never written such a long post on any gaming forum in my life. I really hope that one day they will understand what we mean and at least return to a mechanic that reflects the true Gwf spirit, where we can compete with other classes. I understand how difficult it is to present everything in a great balance in an environment where the action is very fast and there are many variables. But gwf must be mobile, period. Gwf should have meaningful encounters to buff at-will damage, period. Gwf is not a strategist; his problem is not to accumulate action points and intervene when necessary, this is the assasin's job. Gwf must be fighting hand to hand all the time.
I totally agree. In all my discussions I never said anything about buffing the class at the expense of others. But it is a fact that the entire synergy of the class is out of line, Encounter, Feats and Features. I also don't want to philosophize about comparisons with other platforms, but as you said, the feeling of the heat of battle that is playing with the barbarian on the front lines has been lost. I am currently using the Elven Battle enchantment to see if my movement improves a bit. Sad.
I can also suggest pseudodragon. This companion's equip power has a 10% chance per at-will, granting 7.5% stamina regen. It used to not work, I reported it, they fixed it with the new patch.
For example, I use Mighty Leap (for mightier leap), punishing charge and not so fast (for trample the fallen) in V.o.S. Movement is no longer an issue. Of course, my damage is only mediocre. Because I use encounters for movement, not damage or buffing. Barbarian's single target dps on stationary targets is also quite low. Having 30% more critical strikes and 20% more critical severity, a warlock can still beat me by 30% more damage. I can't imagine such a big difference going unnoticed. I have Xuna, all my enchantments and bolsters are set to max Item Level. I took at least 20 companions to mythic and tried all possible combinations. I am writing this so that those who doubt their own setup will not spend money trying other things. My damage is no more than mediocre though. One doesn't need a PhD in RPG to realize that the problem is with the barbarian class. And this leads me to think that it was specifically set up that way. I wish an official would come out and say something so that we could leave barbarian and really plan to play with other classes.
On the move I'm using 2 Gladiator Guille's badge bonus, which greatly improves my mobility in battle.
@fabricjumper a question: do you use Siege Master on active companions? I saw several GWF constructs and nobody uses this companion, and the class is still totally dependent on At-will.
On the move I'm using 2 Gladiator Guille's badge bonus, which greatly improves my mobility in battle.
@fabricjumper a question: do you use Siege Master on active companions? I saw several GWF constructs and nobody uses this companion, and the class is still totally dependent on At-will.
No i don't use siege master. And according to my calculations, at-wills do not make up most of our damage, unfortunately.
According to the test results, encounter and at-will do the same level of damage. If we add the bilethorn stack issue to this, maybe the at-will damage can go a little further. Of course, this is only a single target test. Too many variables in a dungeon environment. It may be more meaningful to use relentless slash in a crowded environment and we may see a different result than in this test. However, we must keep in mind that enemies are usually already dead until we step in and stack our at-will's! So as a general rule I can't count on at-will damage. The new neverwinter is very different from the old one. For example, I use encounter damage as companion collar, not at-will.
Except for the relentless slash passive, our only ability that buffs At-will damage is battle fury and it has a cooldown of over 20 seconds. Bf doesn't renew stamina like it used to. Therefore, instead of focusing on damage with at-wills, I focus on damage, movement or utility (like activating the trample the fallen) by encounter powers.
I'm actually very happy that this discussion got to the root of the problem. When designing the new barbarian, if encounters were set to items that buff movement and damage, all the issues would have been fixed in my opinion.
As companion equip power I am using:
Accute Senses: Chance on hit to increse C. advantage by 7.5% Fire Archon's Insight (Defense Slot) : Chance on hit to increse C. advantage by 7.5% Flamesprite's Insight (Offense Slot): 3.8% Accuracy & Crit Chance Black Dragon's Insight (Offense Slot) : 7.5% Crit Chance Golden Cat's Instincs (Utility Slot) : 7.5% Combat Adv. Pseudragon's Presence (Utility Slot) : Chance to gain 7.5% stamina on at-will usage.
So far i tried:
Alchemist's, Baby Deepcrow, Baby Owlbear (No use as we have 90% crit c. now), Batiri, Cambion, Cave Bear, Celestial Lion's Presence ( It does give %7.5 damage buff, but it hits as a seperate kind of damage, so it doesnt help me with procs of my ribcage etc.), Divine Judgement, Golden Goat, Grung's (It was so OP but nerfed in a NINJA fashion!), Xuna's Wisdom (It doesnt help much)
While playing Blademaster, I did not have the opportunity to compare myself to another barbarian in Vos. But when playing Barbarian tank or Trickster Rogue assasin, I've seen some barbarians do better damage than my blademaster. Other factors may also be effective in this. Because as I mentioned before; I don't go into battle unless the tank gets enough aggro. But most barbarians jump like idiots and force the whole team to save them.
Well from the data you posted, 50% of your damage comes directly or indirectly from At-Wills. It just demonstrated that I'm correct, the class uses 3 encounters and spends 10 seconds hitting non-stop with at-will. Frenzy gives twice the magnitude of the punishing charge, but I understand that you only use this to help gain mobility.
I can only hope something changes for the better with the barbarian. GWF was my first toon and I enjoyed it quite a bit. But as it is now I only keep up on current campaigns and rarely engage in queued content. My signature says it best.
I think a significant increase to base movement speed would help a lot. Also, stamina regen when striking targets would be good. But I've been around long enough to not get my hopes up.
Froger - Barbarian - Original Main - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone Jade - Cleric - Healer Main - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone Magnus - Fighter - 3rd main to be a tank - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone Loverboy - Ranger - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone Nomnomnommm - Wizard - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone I Am The Wall - Paladin - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone Xeros - Rogue - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone RIP bad name - Warlock - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone Bardholomew - Bard - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone Sirona - Cleric - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Well from the data you posted, 50% of your damage comes directly or indirectly from At-Wills. It just demonstrated that I'm correct, the class uses 3 encounters and spends 10 seconds hitting non-stop with at-will. Frenzy gives twice the magnitude of the punishing charge, but I understand that you only use this to help gain mobility.
Punishing Charge also activates trample the fallen.
Yes, if we add Bilethorn + still blitz + brash strike and relentless slash, 50% damage came from at-wills. Obviously this is single target only. So when I'm in a real dungeon I rarely have time to use at-will over trash mobs. I deal the most damage with mightier leap. But in cases like Zariel, Tomm, the graph above may be valid.
I can only hope something changes for the better with the barbarian. GWF was my first toon and I enjoyed it quite a bit. But as it is now I only keep up on current campaigns and rarely engage in queued content. My signature says it best.
I think a significant increase to base movement speed would help a lot. Also, stamina regen when striking targets would be good. But I've been around long enough to not get my hopes up.
That's why in one of my posts I mentioned a Dota hero, and there's a dodge gain for physical area attacks that could be done something similar here (something similar as was the GF's Enforced Threat bonus that was removed ), like the fabric pointed out, since the removal of Daring Shout and BF's stamina bonus we are super vulnerable to someone on the front lines.
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For example, I use Mighty Leap (for mightier leap), punishing charge and not so fast (for trample the fallen) in V.o.S. Movement is no longer an issue. Of course, my damage is only mediocre. Because I use encounters for movement, not damage or buffing. Barbarian's single target dps on stationary targets is also quite low. Having 30% more critical strikes and 20% more critical severity, a warlock can still beat me by 30% more damage. I can't imagine such a big difference going unnoticed. I have Xuna, all my enchantments and bolsters are set to max Item Level. I took at least 20 companions to mythic and tried all possible combinations. I am writing this so that those who doubt their own setup will not spend money trying other things. My damage is no more than mediocre though. One doesn't need a PhD in RPG to realize that the problem is with the barbarian class. And this leads me to think that it was specifically set up that way. I wish an official would come out and say something so that we could leave barbarian and really plan to play with other classes.
@fabricjumper a question: do you use Siege Master on active companions? I saw several GWF constructs and nobody uses this companion, and the class is still totally dependent on At-will.
Here you can see my test on the single target dummy.
https://imgur.com/T2WHD9E
According to the test results, encounter and at-will do the same level of damage. If we add the bilethorn stack issue to this, maybe the at-will damage can go a little further. Of course, this is only a single target test. Too many variables in a dungeon environment. It may be more meaningful to use relentless slash in a crowded environment and we may see a different result than in this test. However, we must keep in mind that enemies are usually already dead until we step in and stack our at-will's! So as a general rule I can't count on at-will damage. The new neverwinter is very different from the old one. For example, I use encounter damage as companion collar, not at-will.
Except for the relentless slash passive, our only ability that buffs At-will damage is battle fury and it has a cooldown of over 20 seconds. Bf doesn't renew stamina like it used to. Therefore, instead of focusing on damage with at-wills, I focus on damage, movement or utility (like activating the trample the fallen) by encounter powers.
I'm actually very happy that this discussion got to the root of the problem. When designing the new barbarian, if encounters were set to items that buff movement and damage, all the issues would have been fixed in my opinion.
As companion equip power I am using:
Accute Senses: Chance on hit to increse C. advantage by 7.5%
Fire Archon's Insight (Defense Slot) : Chance on hit to increse C. advantage by 7.5%
Flamesprite's Insight (Offense Slot): 3.8% Accuracy & Crit Chance
Black Dragon's Insight (Offense Slot) : 7.5% Crit Chance
Golden Cat's Instincs (Utility Slot) : 7.5% Combat Adv.
Pseudragon's Presence (Utility Slot) : Chance to gain 7.5% stamina on at-will usage.
So far i tried:
Alchemist's, Baby Deepcrow, Baby Owlbear (No use as we have 90% crit c. now), Batiri, Cambion, Cave Bear, Celestial Lion's Presence ( It does give %7.5 damage buff, but it hits as a seperate kind of damage, so it doesnt help me with procs of my ribcage etc.), Divine Judgement, Golden Goat, Grung's (It was so OP but nerfed in a NINJA fashion!), Xuna's Wisdom (It doesnt help much)
While playing Blademaster, I did not have the opportunity to compare myself to another barbarian in Vos. But when playing Barbarian tank or Trickster Rogue assasin, I've seen some barbarians do better damage than my blademaster. Other factors may also be effective in this. Because as I mentioned before; I don't go into battle unless the tank gets enough aggro. But most barbarians jump like idiots and force the whole team to save them.
I think a significant increase to base movement speed would help a lot. Also, stamina regen when striking targets would be good. But I've been around long enough to not get my hopes up.
Jade - Cleric - Healer Main - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Magnus - Fighter - 3rd main to be a tank - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Loverboy - Ranger - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Nomnomnommm - Wizard - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
I Am The Wall - Paladin - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
Xeros - Rogue - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
RIP bad name - Warlock - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Bardholomew - Bard - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Sirona - Cleric - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Jade - DC - Shadows of Gauntlgrym - PC
Yes, if we add Bilethorn + still blitz + brash strike and relentless slash, 50% damage came from at-wills. Obviously this is single target only. So when I'm in a real dungeon I rarely have time to use at-will over trash mobs. I deal the most damage with mightier leap. But in cases like Zariel, Tomm, the graph above may be valid.
Here is more up to date version:
https://imgur.com/iHk1jDs