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Neverwinter's Serious Lack of Immersion

sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,285 Arc User
edited March 2021 in Player Feedback (PC)
For about 8 years now, I loyally played Neverwinter once a day. Even years ago, when I got sick in the hospital, I had my husband bring up the laptop to use the (low budget) wifi signal just to login for dailies. I can't say I am Neverwinter's biggest fan, but I have been here. The year 2020 saw us all go to Hell. Avernus was horrible, in my opinion, for the following reasons;
  • Once again poor reasons for going there and doing anything at all for Vallenhas.
  • I didn't care for the maps, not just because they were recycled strongholds, but I complained here about that orange tint, to the point my husband set my PC up with a hotkey that decreased the red values and increased the green and blue.
  • The audio was terrible, I would hear demons shouting Nasher lines. Etrien was just annoying in the shield vault to the point I muted the motivational "I said, no dilly dallying!" just while having to rest 30 seconds by a campfire.
  • While I found Lulu visually "cute", the audio was just sad. I never knew about hollyphants in D&D before.
  • I eventually went to Avernus and finished the campaign by doing memory requests from Makos.
  • Makos should have had more dialog and I have expressed "the better plot" for this hot mess.
While I continue to just log in this year, grab my stuff and go, I don't see anything special about this reinvented Module 20 replacing Module 1. I am almost certain, this fall, Module 21 will do the same with the Dread Ring and Module 2 Shadowmantle will vanish. Some people are ok with this, I don't like it. Maybe Shadowmantle will take a miss and they will attempt to repair the botched PvP in Curse of Icewind Dale? It is possible or they are going to hold off Rime of the Frostmaiden for 2022.

I have been working on a story module for another online game, while it is not a massive multiplayer, it allows me the freedom to once again share my stories with others, who play the game on PC, XB1, and PS4. During this time I notice my mount doesn't just poof under me in a cloud of smoke. More realistically I have to call it, the mount spawns off camera and runs to me. I bump into people and they complain about it. If riding my horse, people react to it rearing up. This type of action appears in other online games, it is more immersive, and realistic. I do not and cannot blame Cryptic too much for lacking the big budget to hire programmers to fix old games. I assume they are doing their best to repair the bugs they have, also trying to get MtG launched, with the limitations of the workforce during this outbreak.

I can blame Cryptic for poor decisions, bad plots, and just slapping a fresh coat of paint on their oldest modules, then calling "new" and improved. I fear the road ahead will greatly reduce any quality of Neverwinter, that existed before this time. This game had real potential. I hope to see all of the loyal players this fall in Barovia for our Barovia Bash 2021. Assuming it hasn't been upgraded or replaced.

Have a Great Day! :heart:

Note for edit: Thank you for telling me about my grammar! You are a real grammar socialist... :lol:
Post edited by sandukutupu on
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Comments

  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,589 Arc User
    Mod 19 somehow managed to have worse storytelling than even mod 17. I have the tabletop book and understand the plot because of that reason and that reason only. The memory fragments might serve to illustrate the events, if there was some narration or exposition. As it stands, they are just an NPC shouting with the final one garbled, as Zariel seems to accept the offer before it is even made. Then there is this weird redemption thing, which exists in tabletop as an ending but doesn't explore the ramifications. Here we live with the fact that Zariel, of her own free will, sided with Asmodeus and is the architect of all the suffering in Vallenhas. All those people lying on mats in the great hall and all the dead that we don't see... those are her victims. Her insane scheme to invade Avernus is somehow justified in NW and her past deeds forgotten because she switched sides again.

    And that isn't even getting into nitpicking like wondering why Hezrou are more dangerous than Glabrezu or Nalfeshnee or why Bone Devils are are apparently not Lesser Devils now.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • blargskullblargskull Member Posts: 513 Arc User
    edited March 2021
    pitshade said:

    Mod 19 somehow managed to have worse storytelling than even mod 17. I have the tabletop book and understand the plot because of that reason and that reason only. The memory fragments might serve to illustrate the events, if there was some narration or exposition. As it stands, they are just an NPC shouting with the final one garbled, as Zariel seems to accept the offer before it is even made. Then there is this weird redemption thing, which exists in tabletop as an ending but doesn't explore the ramifications. Here we live with the fact that Zariel, of her own free will, sided with Asmodeus and is the architect of all the suffering in Vallenhas. All those people lying on mats in the great hall and all the dead that we don't see... those are her victims. Her insane scheme to invade Avernus is somehow justified in NW and her past deeds forgotten because she switched sides again.


    And that isn't even getting into nitpicking like wondering why Hezrou are more dangerous than Glabrezu or Nalfeshnee or why Bone Devils are are apparently not Lesser Devils now.

    I never actually got there, but I did watch that cut scene in question. The one where Asmodeus appears to Zariel and there is lack of narration and the dialog makes little sense. Since this is Lulu's memory, we should "hear" Lulu's internal thoughts as a narrative. She could have explained, Zariel is desperate and losing hope that she will ever succeed, just trying to preserve what remains. Given the task of hiding the sword, as she leaves, she could have said she overheard Asmodeus but could never be her memory as what we see in the cut scene.

    The remainder of that scene seems like Zariel just caved, redemption for a fallen angel is very strange indeed. Her servant kills himself to prevent serving to the dark lord and is brought back, making his role and self sacrifice absolutely pointless. I will play Avernus some day when I get very bored out of my skulls. :trollface:

    Wendy and I talked at her place about the better plot to some detail. Vallenhas is just a castle and land, rulers should be concerned with people and it just looks dumb to have injured lay there when Makos has an open portal nearby. We came up to the idea, that a scene could have shown some injured exit through the portal but died on the other side. Makos comes to the conclusion that only people not teleported there by the demonic forces could come and go. Healers from Neverwinter arrive but Neverember is unwilling to send soldiers as they could weaken Neverwinter's defense. This would explain people being treated by healers near the portal and not returning to the Swordcoast.

    We also said a great dungeon / skirmish was lost on module 18 and 19, as you could have been challenged to a race with war machines. The actual battle would just be a small arena and not really that tough to employ. As Berion pilots the machine, you ride topside and assist Alric and others repel the competition. It could have been much better than what we got. Meanwhile it seems like they are carbon coping the stuff from module #1 with the whole 3 gates. But instead of finishing quests we are time gated to just wait a few months. I have my fingers in too many games to care much at this point.

    Just killing time...
  • mystar#5733 mystar Member Posts: 179 Arc User


    I have been working on a story module for another online game, while it is not a massive multiplayer, it allows me the freedom to once again share my stories with others, who play the game on PC, XB1, and PS4. During this time I notice my mount doesn't just poof under me in a cloud of smoke. More realistically I have to call it, the mount spawns off camera and runs to me. I bump into people and they complain about it. If riding my horse, people react to it rearing up. This type of action appears in other online games, it is more immersive, and realistic. I do not and cannot blame Cryptic too much for lacking the big budget to hire programmers to fix old games. I assume they are doing their best to repair the bugs they have, also trying to get MtG launched, with the limitations of the workforce during this outbreak.

    what's the name of this game?
  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 709 Arc User
    edited March 2021


    I have been working on a story module for another online game, while it is not a massive multiplayer, it allows me the freedom to once again share my stories with others, who play the game on PC, XB1, and PS4. During this time I notice my mount doesn't just poof under me in a cloud of smoke. More realistically I have to call it, the mount spawns off camera and runs to me. I bump into people and they complain about it. If riding my horse, people react to it rearing up. This type of action appears in other online games, it is more immersive, and realistic. I do not and cannot blame Cryptic too much for lacking the big budget to hire programmers to fix old games. I assume they are doing their best to repair the bugs they have, also trying to get MtG launched, with the limitations of the workforce during this outbreak.

    what's the name of this game?
    Not sure but this might be what Wendy is talking about here

    In any case, NW is (or was) a relatively (very) casual friendly MMO that is at least connected (in whatever which way) to DnD and thus somewhat (I assume) attractive to people that actually enjoy lore, story, roleplay. That NW is so severely lacking immersion IS a big issue that is only getting worse, and the biggest reason why the game is still attracting new players IS the DnD/WotC link. They should be careful to kick their only (I could agree on the combat system as a second depending on the version of NW and what one would consider this term entails lol) USP around too much.
    To be honest, the potential is far bigger than what they are doing with it.
    - bye bye -
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,285 Arc User
    edited March 2021
    @mystar#5733 Yes, I was speaking of AC:Odyssey for the story editor. I don't like to spam it. The editor has both pros and cons compared to the deleted NW: Foundry. The biggest pro at present, it is still available. The tools I lack are map editing, placement of objects, and props. I can place NPCs but not dead bodies. The map is huge so you can find a lot of places that is preset to tell your tales. I cannot set the time of day but the players can, if I tell them to visit a place at night, they can go there in the day time. The dialog has gender options which means I won't have barmaids flirting with women... but it is Greece after all.

    There are no restrictions on telling a story. No profanity filter but they do insist you are +16 to play. While children exist in the game, they limit character design to adults only, so you won't have anything paedophile popping up. The editor is used through any web browser, this way when I do publish it, the consoles have it to play as well. Unfortunately there is no 3D preview on the editor, which is something I am use to, as I learned the 2D beta version of the Foundry on Star Trek first.

    Dialog editing is wonderful, as I get a large box to type in, and spell checker via the browser. There are all sorts of tasks, not just go kill X of monster Y type. Objectives include, escorts, kill, talk, destroy, go to area, free captives, and loot specific items. I haven't explored all the options either such as wait timers, set variables, group objectives, etc.. There I go getting all spammy again.

    My story will be playable late summer or early fall, but I plan to place it on YouTube as well.

    There are other games I have found more immersive as well. Not saying everyone needs to follow me to another game, just wish people would read more books instead of burning them.

    See you all in Barovia this October? :heart:
    wb-cenders.gif
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    The Linkletters are the closest I've come to a story in Neverwinter. Be great if they did more of it. Doesn't have to be long, doesn't need special animations. Those two are the only npcs in the entire game they managed to make me care about.

    Contrast that with something like Lord of The Rings Online, which I only just started playing, and the non-stop story telling is thick as weeds. You can't jog five minutes without running into another story. I picked up some off hand side-quest today that was really moving - and a real to goodness story: no plot, no moral, just a nice little tale. and it made me think of this thread.
  • datarider#1036 datarider Member Posts: 210 Arc User
    Linkletters and Dorothea is my favorite story :D I play it even on my banks :D
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,285 Arc User
    edited March 2021

    Linkletters and Dorothea is my favorite story :D I play it even on my banks :D

    A great story, you can find a lot of details about the Linkletter's making the characters seem more than real.

    Josef Linkletter and Dorothea Nacht met in Neverwinter six years ago in 1473 DY. A journeyman stone mason and architect, Dorothea came to the city at Lord Neverember's behest to help the rebuilding. She was one of the main designers of Seven Suns marketplace and the Manycoins bank.

    This was found here on the wiki.
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  • hexngone#5489 hexngone Member Posts: 370 Arc User
    Although I would be the first to advocate for Underdark/Pwent being completed before access to Maze Engine is granted (to keep the story linear) there are many other areas where the story/theme jumps multiple levels before it is continued (the fate of Helm's Hold cathedral for example).

    I would caution about shouting too loud about 'Immersion' without clearly defining what you want. When Mod 15 revised the professions, some developer thought it would be immersive to create a little workshop and storyline to accompany the tasks at hand. The story is ok, but the outright inconvenience of going to a physical location several times a day and the endless clicking to clear confirmation pup-ups just makes the whole implementation a total disappointment. Layered menu panels that don't display or retain their scrolled state without clicking one extra time are just poor design. Quests that are given by multiple NPCs often without any indication that they have a quest (no diamond exclamation point) reveals real lack of editorial oversight to meet the standards of the rest of NW. The immersion has become an encumberment.
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