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Fighter Vanguard - What happend?

apokyapoky Member Posts: 4 Arc User
Good day everyone,
I am here to talk about my absolut disappointment with the new combat rework.
Yes it has been a while since the change, everyone is already used to it, but... why regardless of my stats and % ,the shield stamina bar goes to 0 after 4 strikes ... i have a 49k IL tank that in demogorgon before combat rework i could use DIG IN and go to sleep, now i don't!
I understand that maybe was too much, but im here because of the damage that tanks take, its too much, i have to get healed or use potions all the time. thats not fair.

Another example is i have a wizard and a warlock 26k and 28K IL and they already have 3x stats above 70% i can only make 2x stats above that with my main char, which is the fighter...something is not right here.
And yes i've seen videos, yes i have read forums. but still... not right..tank should be supportive as well pulling the agro...now i can only pull the agro, my powers are now, knights challange to restore stamina, enforced threat to pull and iron warrior that makes 20% more resis to attacks. just not to die...i use to have shield throw to generate more threat and pull enemies that were further away and make a large group for dps's to kill, and knights valor to cover nearest party member, i cannot do that anymore, i used to love dungeons, now i don't.

I am asking please...please rebalance the stats for Fighters, and work on the stamina bar, please!..its not fair what this class is going trough.

I am a player that was away for 2 years and returned in last september 2020, i went to learning all bout the mechanics and the new combat rework and in 5 months another combat rework, and all i see is the downfall of this class. Barbarians can tank more. Unimaginable, but true.


Take care guys.

Comments

  • admiralwarlord#3792 admiralwarlord Member Posts: 465 Arc User
    Being honest with you, if you are a GF Tank and are suffering in Demogorgon is for 2 reasons, which are: you did not understand how the change of combat works and your char with 49k has status in the wrong places and the second reason is that with the game scaled you need to have knowledge of mechanics that many did not learn because it is an easy content in which you could go to sleep as you yourself quoted , only they exist.
  • durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 555 Arc User
    sad to say but if you think before the combat rework that holding dig in and sleeping in demogorgon as a tank is fun - then i dislike your definition of fun. you being there not getting damaged and sleeping is no more different than not being there and afking - you contribute nothing to the run.

    Altho to be fair tanks are still not really that needed as with enough dps, people can still bypass mechanics easily.

    I'm sorry if this was not the response you were expecting - but i am tired of all the cries of nerfs and ruining of your "gamestyle".

    Now slack off of tank mechanics and it can be fatal. Now you get to play as a tank and be as enganged (or more) to the mechanics as compared to dps. The same applies to heals.

    They did that stupidly buff the increase threat generation a while ago (to make it idiot proof) that makes keeping aggro against solo bosses in trials not an issue anymore.

  • silente07#2597 silente07 Member Posts: 208 Arc User
    The mechanics of a Tank in Demo IS simple stupid. Keep aggro and keep him out of the wells. With having two tanks you tag team if you get the sanity sickness.

    The DPS are supposed to take care of any ADs that come after you. They usually don’t. It’s worse now with increased aggro because of reduction in damage.

    The OP was pointing out that something so easy is now a mess.

    So yeah you could dig in and balance damage and stamina and well runs and let the DPS work the portals and kill the ADs. It’s changed.

    But it’s nice to hear AGAIN
    How much Tanks are not needed in the game.

    Probably one reason why they have stopped Queing up.

    Keep telling Tanks to git gud.
    I’m sure it’s helping.
  • apokyapoky Member Posts: 4 Arc User

    sad to say but if you think before the combat rework that holding dig in and sleeping in demogorgon as a tank is fun - then i dislike your definition of fun. you being there not getting damaged and sleeping is no more different than not being there and afking - you contribute nothing to the run.

    Altho to be fair tanks are still not really that needed as with enough dps, people can still bypass mechanics easily.

    I'm sorry if this was not the response you were expecting - but i am tired of all the cries of nerfs and ruining of your "gamestyle".

    Now slack off of tank mechanics and it can be fatal. Now you get to play as a tank and be as enganged (or more) to the mechanics as compared to dps. The same applies to heals.

    They did that stupidly buff the increase threat generation a while ago (to make it idiot proof) that makes keeping aggro against solo bosses in trials not an issue anymore.

    Ofc you are tired of all the nerf cries, maybe your main character class wasn't nerfed...maybe u can spend some money and reconfigure times and times, again and again your build...

    i had one single chance to change it.. now i have to farm the only 100AD daily to get back up, god even knows when...
    I'm sorry if that is not the answer you were expecting as well.

    The main thing here is... DPS's do so much more damage then tanks can take. there is no balance. regardless the build. True fact.

    And ofc as tank you want to get the less damage u can..if absolut none, perfect! I gave the example of Demo but ofc i wanted to use dig in and sleep...so the group could go to portals. thats the point of the trial.

    either way..ty for you opinion.
  • apokyapoky Member Posts: 4 Arc User

    Being honest with you, if you are a GF Tank and are suffering in Demogorgon is for 2 reasons, which are: you did not understand how the change of combat works and your char with 49k has status in the wrong places and the second reason is that with the game scaled you need to have knowledge of mechanics that many did not learn because it is an easy content in which you could go to sleep as you yourself quoted , only they exist.

    i gave the example of demo yes..but i don't suffer there i just said my stamina bar drops asap. regardless of the boss if we go to higher item lvl DG's well sometimes i die yes... i have no shame..the real problem here is that almost no good Fighter tanks exist in the game..only a handful, and those that exist..believe me..$$$$$.

    But why i can't i use do my build, and take some tips from videos or forums? the game is filled with copycats. waiting for bloggers to show the build they think it would work... a lot of people waited 3 or 4 days after de combat rework just to see how they could copy. Its the truth.

    At least i'm trying for my own. Does that make a good samaritan?! don't think so. Does it make me a cry baby? maybe.

    I just wished this game could give more chances and diffrent chances, thats all.

    Ty for your opinion tho :)



  • apokyapoky Member Posts: 4 Arc User

    The mechanics of a Tank in Demo IS simple stupid. Keep aggro and keep him out of the wells. With having two tanks you tag team if you get the sanity sickness.


    The DPS are supposed to take care of any ADs that come after you. They usually don’t. It’s worse now with increased aggro because of reduction in damage.


    The OP was pointing out that something so easy is now a mess.


    So yeah you could dig in and balance damage and stamina and well runs and let the DPS work the portals and kill the ADs. It’s changed.


    But it’s nice to hear AGAIN

    How much Tanks are not needed in the game.


    Probably one reason why they have stopped Queing up.


    Keep telling Tanks to git gud.

    I’m sure it’s helping.

    Yes i get, i did demo many times i know how it works :) , i just gave an example of how nerfed the tank was in this last combat rework. and it did.

    Just sayin, i haven't seen 1 not 1 fighter tank with more then 2x stats higher then 70% i saw one once with 90% Def 84% cri avoid and 60% somethin in all the rest. that was the best i inspected..and believe me i inspect a lot.
    But maybe i haven't seen one but he exists..whitout potions and buffs ofc.

    Tanks take too much damage...i'm not saying they shouldn't get damaged..im saying they take too much damage for the class it is.

    Ty for your opinion as well :)
  • admiralwarlord#3792 admiralwarlord Member Posts: 465 Arc User
    I don't want to be offensive or be pretentious since I myself have received offenses of not being skilled for not owning bis weapons, but your character must be some problem in building the build. The GF tank is easy to maintain aggro, has ease of regaining stamina and sensational powers for occasions when this status resets.

    I also don't follow what others talk about how to mount my build, but I usually read others' ones for something useful. Many of the players have not yet understood that with the sense of scale is that the player acquires knowledge of the content and does not go through these with a few clicks or sleeping as you quoted.
  • hypervoreianhypervoreian Member Posts: 1,036 Arc User
    apoky said:

    Good day everyone,
    I am here to talk about my absolut disappointment with the new combat rework.
    Yes it has been a while since the change, everyone is already used to it, but... why regardless of my stats and % ,the shield stamina bar goes to 0 after 4 strikes ... i have a 49k IL tank that in demogorgon before combat rework i could use DIG IN and go to sleep, now i don't!
    I understand that maybe was too much, but im here because of the damage that tanks take, its too much, i have to get healed or use potions all the time. thats not fair.

    Another example is i have a wizard and a warlock 26k and 28K IL and they already have 3x stats above 70% i can only make 2x stats above that with my main char, which is the fighter...something is not right here.
    And yes i've seen videos, yes i have read forums. but still... not right..tank should be supportive as well pulling the agro...now i can only pull the agro, my powers are now, knights challange to restore stamina, enforced threat to pull and iron warrior that makes 20% more resis to attacks. just not to die...i use to have shield throw to generate more threat and pull enemies that were further away and make a large group for dps's to kill, and knights valor to cover nearest party member, i cannot do that anymore, i used to love dungeons, now i don't.

    I am asking please...please rebalance the stats for Fighters, and work on the stamina bar, please!..its not fair what this class is going trough.

    I am a player that was away for 2 years and returned in last september 2020, i went to learning all bout the mechanics and the new combat rework and in 5 months another combat rework, and all i see is the downfall of this class. Barbarians can tank more. Unimaginable, but true.


    Take care guys.

    It is not just you friend.
    The class is boring unwanting a chore to play.
    People tend to conform to general consensus;
    And now consensus in game what is good or not is dicted by the DPS players cause they outnumber us 10-1.
    And they say GF tank is ok. Dont beleive them they have no clue.
  • durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 555 Arc User
    i don't believe i have no clue when i play on my gf tank on neverwinter tho.
  • lantern22lantern22 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,102 Arc User
    tbh I preferred when your shield was permanent and if you missed a block you got one shot
  • tardbathtardbath Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    I know that changes needed to be made, in m16 and even now. But.. boy!! i do miss my tactician.. i do miss the conqueror path (that path could be played as tank too)..
    Playing a tank now feels boring and sad, taking a break from the game for 1-2 mods. The change to defence/deflect formula was the final hit on the tank role imo.
  • durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 555 Arc User
    we have very different versions on what boring is. For me boring is going in the middle of the mobs, taunting, holding tab and not even get damaged by all of them.

    Now if you want to grab a lot of mobs, you'd have to kite them to only get hit by a couple or so otherwise you fall splat.

    For me, not boring is playing where you attempt to do something where making a mistake has serious consequences.
  • silente07#2597 silente07 Member Posts: 208 Arc User
    Boring is being a Tank ATM. The DPS still rush forward they have the hit points and now potions work as well as stones.
    We are not needed. We don’t buff or de buff for any significance and we certainly don’t do damage. The games agro is skewed as bosses whom you do have aggro on still disengage and attack the party as if you were not there. By this I mean they turn and walk away.
    We only are needed to fulfill the random Que and for Trialswith Tankbusters in them.

    Can we solo, sure, but it takes forever and EVERY battle is a grind. If I’m trying to farm a place it’s not fun.

    I have spent so many resources and time in my toon, and I loved playing her when it felt like I was contributing to the party.
    I miss being a support class rather than just a slot filler.

    I know the evolution of the game usually throws a class under the bus, wizards are still trying to crawl back out, but this really has disrupted the triangle the game was aiming for of Tank, dps and heal.
  • durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 555 Arc User
    sorry if this question may seem stupid for asking but, have you ran VoS? bad tanks causes wipes. dps gets overwhelmed by mobs if you dont position properly. dps gets obliterated if you cant keep aggro and they cant dodge.

    random queues i agree with you - dps can just be overgeared and ignore mechanics - but this has been like this for the most part of the game - you only need one overgeared dps to carry a rtq/req at ease.
  • hypervoreianhypervoreian Member Posts: 1,036 Arc User

    sorry if this question may seem stupid for asking but, have you ran VoS? bad tanks causes wipes. dps gets overwhelmed by mobs if you dont position properly. dps gets obliterated if you cant keep aggro and they cant dodge.

    random queues i agree with you - dps can just be overgeared and ignore mechanics - but this has been like this for the most part of the game - you only need one overgeared dps to carry a rtq/req at ease.

    Silente said that being a tank is boring and unrewarding.
    And your response is if he run vos????

    Let's say you wrote that in order to reenforce your opinion about importance of tank.
    First of all VoS is ONE dungeon. Old russian saying is " one equals none".
    Second, tank there in order to survive is totally dependent of the group DPS.If the DPS dont clear fast enough the zombies and the mushrooms the tank cannot survive the massive attacks.
    Basically the tank role is to kite for an extremely limited time untill DPS clear the threat.
    This is not tanking .This is Benny Hill show.

    " you only need one overgeared dps to carry a rtq/req at ease"
    Aha. So one DPS can clear a dung run, so by default have enough defensed and dps for carrying a team.
    But a tank to have a higher enough damage so to freakin do its dailies is a cardinal sin for your circle of tank nerfers.
    Can a overgeared tank clear a rtq/dung as you admited the DPS do?
    Ofcourse not and here is the disrepancy and the double standards.



  • silente07#2597 silente07 Member Posts: 208 Arc User
    > @durugudesu said:
    > sorry if this question may seem stupid for asking but, have you ran VoS? bad tanks causes wipes. dps gets overwhelmed by mobs if you dont position properly. dps gets obliterated if you cant keep aggro and they cant dodge.
    >
    > random queues i agree with you - dps can just be overgeared and ignore mechanics - but this has been like this for the most part of the game - you only need one overgeared dps to carry a rtq/req at ease.

    As I stated the Tank role is only required on a few Trials meaning VOS, TOMM,ZC and such. Which is a VERY limited part of the game.

    You also made my point. A well equipped dps can finish the dungeons just fine without a Tank.

    Which makes me sad. I love my GF. I keep her a a Tank to help the Alliance do the Random Ques and it’s way too expensive to kit out the DPS Side since it’s essentially a separate character and I’ve never been thrilled with the encounter s we ended up with after mod 16.
  • durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 555 Arc User

    As I stated the Tank role is only required on a few Trials meaning VOS, TOMM,ZC and such. Which is a VERY limited part of the game.


    Yes very limited part of the game - but are you forgetting that these are also the most recent releases that they put out in the game?

    As for the point on dps can finish dungeons without tank - i agree with you. this is especially true on old content - meaning everything in random dungeon queues, req and rtq.

    for the most part - these are old contents we were able to finish ages ago before coming to where we are now - which is us being severely overgeared for those those dungeons/trials and skirmishes.
  • durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 555 Arc User


    sorry if this question may seem stupid for asking but, have you ran VoS? bad tanks causes wipes. dps gets overwhelmed by mobs if you dont position properly. dps gets obliterated if you cant keep aggro and they cant dodge.

    random queues i agree with you - dps can just be overgeared and ignore mechanics - but this has been like this for the most part of the game - you only need one overgeared dps to carry a rtq/req at ease.

    Silente said that being a tank is boring and unrewarding.
    And your response is if he run vos????

    Yes my response is asking if he has run the latest releases where playing a tank properly rewards you with the chance of winning and failing is an assured wipe. With these conditions - playing a tank would not be unrewarding and boring in my opinion because winning and failing relies on how well you can perform as a tank with your current party.


    Let's say you wrote that in order to reenforce your opinion about importance of tank.
    First of all VoS is ONE dungeon. Old russian saying is " one equals none".
    Second, tank there in order to survive is totally dependent of the group DPS.If the DPS dont clear fast enough the zombies and the mushrooms the tank cannot survive the massive attacks.
    Basically the tank role is to kite for an extremely limited time untill DPS clear the threat.
    This is not tanking .This is Benny Hill show.

    What is the role of a tank? Is it not to grab aggro from enemies so dps can do their role of doing damage to the enemies? Of course the tank relies on the dps to clear the enemies, and the healer to keep him and the dps alive.

    " you only need one overgeared dps to carry a rtq/req at ease"
    Aha. So one DPS can clear a dung run, so by default have enough defensed and dps for carrying a team.
    But a tank to have a higher enough damage so to freakin do its dailies is a cardinal sin for your circle of tank nerfers.


    Can a overgeared tank clear a rtq/dung as you admited the DPS do?
    Ofcourse not and here is the disrepancy and the double standards.

    Overgeared tanks can clear RTQ/REQ - not as fast as an overgeared dps but this is one of my past time - to queue REQ with just tank and heal, and finish the run even with dps not doing any damage because the overgeared tank has enough damage to carry the team to completion.





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