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Paladin class mechanic and powers

darkerickxdarkerickx Member Posts: 20 Arc User
Dear GM Lovric and neverwinter developers, I am a paladin tank and healer. as healer my area cures is not good. the class mechanic channel divinity takes a long time to fully load. the shields generated by my healings replace the previous shield, even if it was bigger. the at-will Divine fulmination power has a very slow attack speed. I suggest that you observe these points and bring improvements. in all RTQ and REDQ you need a tank and healer. the only class that can supply both needs is the paladin. we are weak. we are humbled. rogues and other Dps classes are taking over from me in the dungeons and are resisting the damage, even though they have a lower item level. emerged that they remove or decrease the cooldown of the Divine champion class mechanic. absolution: reduce cooldown to 18s and increase duration to 10s. Relentless avenger: what is special about this power? it is the ultimate power by the paladin Justicar and does nothing. add some buff to that power that is at least top of threat list. vow of enmity: reduce cooldown to 15, increase magnitude to 600. oath Strike: increase magnitude to 60 to help increase the threat. blessed wanderer: have you stopped to reflect how useless this feature is? how will I use this feature if I always have the companion equipped? Divine protector: why only 6s of damage reduction? what am i going to do with this time? increase that please. how long will the racial power of the tiefling blood hunt go out of business? if it won't work, delete it. this is unfair. return the paladin's dignity to both Paragon Justicar and Oathkeeper. we are the key to RTQ. We are Full Support with a mission to protect and heal. give us back our dignity.

Comments

  • mushellkamushellka Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 357 Arc User
    It seems to me that before we start looking for people to blame, we should sometimes look at ourselves and think if there is something wrong with us. Before you start complaining, you have to start with yourself.
    I play a divinity based healer (DC) and it's extremely rare that I find myself lacking that divinity. The key to this is not spamming powers.

    However, sad experience has taught me that currently finding a tank for a RTQ/REDQ who knows how to play is almost impossible. A tank who thinks that he can deal damage and is focused on dmg, neither holds aggro nor really hits. He's just useless.
    Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited February 2021
    mushellka said:

    It seems to me that before we start looking for people to blame, we should sometimes look at ourselves and think if there is something wrong with us. Before you start complaining, you have to start with yourself.
    I play a divinity based healer (DC) and it's extremely rare that I find myself lacking that divinity. The key to this is not spamming powers.

    However, sad experience has taught me that currently finding a tank for a RTQ/REDQ who knows how to play is almost impossible. A tank who thinks that he can deal damage and is focused on dmg, neither holds aggro nor really hits. He's just useless.

    You REALLY don't understand how the Paladin works, do you?

    I run an endgame healer DC and a Paladin and I can tell you there is a HUGE difference in Divinity restoration capability AND healing magnitudes.

    On tanking, yes it's possible to hold threat effectively but the way it's done is with a combination of decent DPS, high defensive stats (or holding that threat gets you killed) and proper build/rotation. A tank with no DPS has a much harder time holding threat - yes, you can force it but without reasonable dps you can lose aggro again within seconds and spamming Smite too quickly will drain your Divinity.

    Edit: you know, I just looked through the history on your posts - jeeez what a load of spite & trolling!
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

    Xael De Armadeon: DC
    Xane De Armadeon: CW
    Zen De Armadeon: OP
    Zohar De Armadeon: TR
    Chrion De Armadeon: SW
    Gosti Big Belly: GWF
    Barney McRustbucket: GF
    Lt. Thackeray: HR
    Lucius De Armadeon: BD


    Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited February 2021
    @darkerickx

    re tanking

    I don't know how you're built or skills you're using but you should have the class feature Divine Challenger slotted and use Smite as your only Divinity based power - only use Smite when you don't have threat (or you're about to lose it) and (in combo with the feat Justicar's Bulwark) put up your shield for a few seconds to recharge divinity if necc while you have aggro. Also slot the class feature Composure (for divinity) - pretty much all the time on that one.

    The idea is ' use divinity (smite) to gain the threat, then use your shield to regain the divinity while you have threat'. Bear in mind that this means you need good Stamina regen too!

    Smite can be used at range so if dps classes are running ahead, you need to Smite an enemy before they get there (preferably).

    Your main at-will should be Oath Strike.

    In terms of healing (oathkeeper) - I don't bother anymore, I use my DC for that as it does a much better job.

    Edit: I do agree that the magnitudes on Pally encounters/at-wills are pathetically low (apart from Smite - that one's ok)
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

    Xael De Armadeon: DC
    Xane De Armadeon: CW
    Zen De Armadeon: OP
    Zohar De Armadeon: TR
    Chrion De Armadeon: SW
    Gosti Big Belly: GWF
    Barney McRustbucket: GF
    Lt. Thackeray: HR
    Lucius De Armadeon: BD


    Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
  • datarider#1036 datarider Member Posts: 210 Arc User
    edited February 2021
    I play DC and pally and I confirm that pally is a very sad healer :D you have to be top game experienced player to be able to heal with the pally :disappointed:
    I hope they do something about it :)
    Outgoing % on the companions needs to be higher. They nerfed it once and now its nerfed again. Dunno how many realized this - leg comp is 2.5% out healing now!! Disguisting - from 10% before to 3% on the last nerf - now its 2.5% /with the same bolster/ ... this is a ninja nerf :D HAMSTER cryptic

    I also tank with GF and with the Pally - no problems there :)
  • darkerickxdarkerickx Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    > @buttcracktic#3711 said:
    > There is nothing wrong with paladin. Either with it's heals or it's tanking.
    >
    > I have played paladin for many years. I would suggest talking with some experienced players. Figuring out a build and a competent rotation with your power. Positioning matters too. As well as mechanics. There is finesse in all things in the game. Most often there is nothing wrong with the class. Only the player.
    >
    > > "Rogues and other Dps classes are taking over from me in the dungeons and are resisting the damage."
    >
    > So you cannot aggro properly i see. Also note that many players have barkshields and healing potions. Combined with class mechanics. This is all to aid in survival. Even with said things most dps even end game dps are 2-3 shots away from dying by some chump monster in malabogs or elsewhere. So i'm not really sure where you believe they are resisting damage as you say.
    > If they were to take away these things then you'll just have dps dead in 1 shot. Then you will be here whining how you cannot get through RTQ or REDQ because your dps are dying and its taking hours.
    > Also why would you be complaining about your heals if the dps are so resistant? now that doesn't add up does it?
    > Then they wouldn't need to be healed now would they.
    > By your suggestions paladin tank wouldn't need healers either. xD
    >
    > I can say that your post comes off more like someone who lacks knowledge and skill. Not constructive criticism that is well placed backed by experience and wisdom.

    Wrong. I let the DPSs go in front of some REDQs to observe their survivability. I know all paladin rotations and have been a player since 2014. My experience was purposeful to see the ability of DPSs to survive on the front lines.
  • raziel2004#7353 raziel2004 Member Posts: 88 Arc User
    Hey hey Pallies we should not fight with each other.. Plz make it more civilized. Im trying to use again my pally and all your comments give insight n beneficial to me.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,942 Arc User

    Hey hey Pallies we should not fight with each other.. Plz make it more civilized. Im trying to use again my pally and all your comments give insight n beneficial to me.

    You're right that we shouldn't and we aren't - the one starting the argument doesn't play a pally but feels compelled to give unsolicited and uninformed criticism to those that do. Also known as trolling.
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

    Xael De Armadeon: DC
    Xane De Armadeon: CW
    Zen De Armadeon: OP
    Zohar De Armadeon: TR
    Chrion De Armadeon: SW
    Gosti Big Belly: GWF
    Barney McRustbucket: GF
    Lt. Thackeray: HR
    Lucius De Armadeon: BD


    Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
  • kharkov58kharkov58 Member Posts: 626 Arc User
    I have to say that the changes to the paladin class since mod 16 was introduced have combined to encourage me to no longer main my paladin tank after over 5 years playing him almost exclusively. The feats are designed to work only with the powers the dev's want you to use. The powers are designed to try to force you to join a group to play. There are only 2 class mechanics worth taking for solo play, and neither make much of a difference.The boons are almost un-noticable, but that is not exclusive to paladins.
  • badnickname#3262 badnickname Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    Now I'm playing mainly as paladin tank. I don't have issues doing solo content even without "dps" build and xuna/chicken/flame sprite/whatever bis dps companion is now. I just tested some things, and killing garyx took me 2:46 min. As for different companions and loadouts in solo and group content for tank, when I played wizard previously I’ve seen many tanks. Some of theme were good, but most of them were terrible and they didn’t know what they doing and what they are supposet to do. One of the main reasons why I almost abandoned my wizard are those „tanks”. It’s really not fun when me and rest of the party suffer by their incompetence. They ofeten used Xuna/Chicken and pretend that they are both tank and dps. It wasn’t good for the rest of the team. Now I see that some people want change op tanks to demigods with survivability and damage. I don’t need that. Damage is fine for solo content, those who complaining for low magnitude on encounters should look what magnitude other classes have. I had completed Vault of Stars as op tank on preview and I’m generally happy with that how justicar works. People need to realize what role they chosen. I can assure you that Justicar isn’t broken and playable.
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,133 Arc User
    edited February 2021
    In my experience with Justicar, I think some changes would be apreciated:
    at-wills magnitudes increased
    Feats that doesnt depend of powers. I have 1-2 useless feats lots of times because both choices doesnt suit my power selection
    Some encounter cooldown reduction (sacred weapon for example)

    Healing seems a bit subpar comparing with DC / SW but I cant talk because I dont play as a healer.
    Post edited by darthpotater on
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garlic PvE Paladin
    Caturday Survivor
    Elemental Evil Survivor
    Undermontain Survivor
    Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
    Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
  • milehighxr#1299 milehighxr Member Posts: 412 Arc User
    armadeonx said:

    mushellka said:

    It seems to me that before we start looking for people to blame, we should sometimes look at ourselves and think if there is something wrong with us. Before you start complaining, you have to start with yourself.
    I play a divinity based healer (DC) and it's extremely rare that I find myself lacking that divinity. The key to this is not spamming powers.

    However, sad experience has taught me that currently finding a tank for a RTQ/REDQ who knows how to play is almost impossible. A tank who thinks that he can deal damage and is focused on dmg, neither holds aggro nor really hits. He's just useless.

    You REALLY don't understand how the Paladin works, do you?

    I run an endgame healer DC and a Paladin and I can tell you there is a HUGE difference in Divinity restoration capability AND healing magnitudes.

    On tanking, yes it's possible to hold threat effectively but the way it's done is with a combination of decent DPS, high defensive stats (or holding that threat gets you killed) and proper build/rotation. A tank with no DPS has a much harder time holding threat - yes, you can force it but without reasonable dps you can lose aggro again within seconds and spamming Smite too quickly will drain your Divinity.

    Edit: you know, I just looked through the history on your posts - jeeez what a load of spite & trolling!
    And with the combat rework it's really difficult to build any of the dps stats on pally tank....
  • milehighxr#1299 milehighxr Member Posts: 412 Arc User
    armadeonx said:

    @darkerickx

    re tanking

    I don't know how you're built or skills you're using but you should have the class feature Divine Challenger slotted and use Smite as your only Divinity based power - only use Smite when you don't have threat (or you're about to lose it) and (in combo with the feat Justicar's Bulwark) put up your shield for a few seconds to recharge divinity if necc while you have aggro. Also slot the class feature Composure (for divinity) - pretty much all the time on that one.

    The idea is ' use divinity (smite) to gain the threat, then use your shield to regain the divinity while you have threat'. Bear in mind that this means you need good Stamina regen too!

    Smite can be used at range so if dps classes are running ahead, you need to Smite an enemy before they get there (preferably).

    Your main at-will should be Oath Strike.

    In terms of healing (oathkeeper) - I don't bother anymore, I use my DC for that as it does a much better job.

    Edit: I do agree that the magnitudes on Pally encounters/at-wills are pathetically low (apart from Smite - that one's ok)

    I do all these things you suggest, and I still lose threat quite quickly with certain endgame dps players. Even if I spam oath strike, I still have a hard time maintaining threat. This was an issue before the rework, and seems just as bad if not worse in some dungeons.
  • nukaze#1578 nukaze Member Posts: 36 Arc User

    armadeonx said:

    @darkerickx

    re tanking

    I don't know how you're built or skills you're using but you should have the class feature Divine Challenger slotted and use Smite as your only Divinity based power - only use Smite when you don't have threat (or you're about to lose it) and (in combo with the feat Justicar's Bulwark) put up your shield for a few seconds to recharge divinity if necc while you have aggro. Also slot the class feature Composure (for divinity) - pretty much all the time on that one.

    The idea is ' use divinity (smite) to gain the threat, then use your shield to regain the divinity while you have threat'. Bear in mind that this means you need good Stamina regen too!

    Smite can be used at range so if dps classes are running ahead, you need to Smite an enemy before they get there (preferably).

    Your main at-will should be Oath Strike.

    In terms of healing (oathkeeper) - I don't bother anymore, I use my DC for that as it does a much better job.

    Edit: I do agree that the magnitudes on Pally encounters/at-wills are pathetically low (apart from Smite - that one's ok)

    I do all these things you suggest, and I still lose threat quite quickly with certain endgame dps players. Even if I spam oath strike, I still have a hard time maintaining threat. This was an issue before the rework, and seems just as bad if not worse in some dungeons.
    i've done the elol hc with a pally tank and there's this one rogue who i dont know what he's doing but just a few skills after the dragon lands, he gets all the freaking threat

    it was our second run after someone died, and i told them not to hit the dragon yet until i got the top threat, i did get it, the dragon was focused on me, the rogue does his thing and in less than 5 seconds, the dragon turns around to face the rogue, and with the lava limiting area, he died and we needed to start over, it's just ridiculous, it's not so much as the tank not maintaining aggro, dps shouldnt generate that much threat with the presence of tanks or something, and now i use sacred weapon (with additional threat feat) + oathstrike, vow of enmity and smite and even with all that i can still lose aggro

    and i can see smite 'reducing' everyone else's threat generation but i think some threat skills of mine dont even do that :(
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,133 Arc User



    i've done the elol hc with a pally tank and there's this one rogue who i dont know what he's doing but just a few skills after the dragon lands, he gets all the freaking threat

    it was our second run after someone died, and i told them not to hit the dragon yet until i got the top threat, i did get it, the dragon was focused on me, the rogue does his thing and in less than 5 seconds, the dragon turns around to face the rogue, and with the lava limiting area, he died and we needed to start over, it's just ridiculous, it's not so much as the tank not maintaining aggro, dps shouldnt generate that much threat with the presence of tanks or something, and now i use sacred weapon (with additional threat feat) + oathstrike, vow of enmity and smite and even with all that i can still lose aggro

    and i can see smite 'reducing' everyone else's threat generation but i think some threat skills of mine dont even do that :(

    A top dps will allways give you trouble, but with the changes for tanks to generate more agro, you shouldnt have problems.

    With the aura that reduces agro from your alies, and the feat that puts you on top of agro list with smite you should be able to keep boss attention. Also, using the daily for damage is usually good for the combat start.

    Binding oath instead of vow of enmity works better for me.

    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garlic PvE Paladin
    Caturday Survivor
    Elemental Evil Survivor
    Undermontain Survivor
    Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
    Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
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