OP, GF additional AP gain when holding shield

xvimn134

This issue has been sitting there for many mods. If you are GF or OP and if you press shift to hold shied while in combat, you will keep gaining AP, it affects pvp especially since they can get daily like 2x or even 3x faster if they keep holding shield.

xvimn134

can someone move this to bug reports section? ty

sagakaiyume

This isn't a bug, just because you hate it in pvp, doesn't make it a bug. If a tank in pve is holding aggro and holding up their shield to stay alive while dps do whatever, we need a way to gain our ap back to help us survive, either through second wind to heal ourselves up, primal instinct for the hp buuf/heal ect. Stop always trying to get stuff removed from pve just because pvp players find it annoying. Ask for pvp to be handled different rather than making pve worse. "Nerf mount powers, nerf tanks survivability, nerf shift from warlocks and barbs, remove rogue's invisibility, nerf how def works on preview". Seriously annoying.

xvimn134

It is a bug people reported long ago. And when you hold shield you can still attack to gain AP, not through automatically AP again with shield holding, and a good tank only use dig in to shield, the damage reflection when u release shield gives you massive AP again.

The general idea is all class should have around same speed of AP again, currenly any GF tank/dps can get daily 3x faster than other class.

sagakaiyume

Level 78 rogue with 14% AP gain; 57 seconds to gain daily
Main fighter, dps spec 15% AP gain: 51 seconds to gain daily
Main fighter, tank spec 17% AP gain; 45 seconds to gain daily.
HR level 80 alt: Always has daily

Your issue is in pvp, not pve. If you're somehow taking 3x longer than a class with a shield to get your daily you're doing a lot wrong. Stop attacking pve.

xvimn134

GF u gain AP every 51 seconds? look how long it took me with only 8.7% AP gain, around 30 seconds.
And I am just attacking dummy here, if in combat and on tank path I can dig in to reflect damage every 10 seconds to generate much more AP, it will take only 20 seconds to charge full AP as GF tank.





I can show you how if you not sure how you do it as GF, you can join discord here to discuss: https://discord.gg/GCuT2vK

xvimn134

and again the idea is all class should have around the same AP again speed, 2x or 3x is too big a difference. Also all other class can not use shift to gain AP, so it does not make sense only for GF/OP to gain AP with shift, it is just a bug.

sagakaiyume

Problem: In my testing unlike your's I didn't use overloads/consumables as all classes can use those, makes the results extremely bias. If you have a problem with tanks gaining slightly faster AP gain, we should remove AP gain from Envenomed and the Cleric sigil, as tanks are never given the choice for personal unlike dps. A pure test on a Rogue with less than 20 boons and my fighter dps without using anything except what my boons gave had a 6 second difference, with focused retaliation picked to keep it fair comparison to the rogue. Your issue in here claims a problem with our guard, therefore after using heavy slash to buff, full rotation of encounters, I used guard + at will to attack until time to apply heavy slash and rotation again.

Your actions are sketchy at best, complaining about those with shields gaining passive ap when classes like your's right out negates any amount of damage to them from a simple dodge that'd right out kill tanks. Complaining when you have how many rogues in "top 25%" as you say? Sounds simply to me you want them nerfed because you can't handle them well.

I, too, can toss on overloads, choose blood lust, toss on lethander's dew just to buff up my ap gain as much as possible. Everyone can.

vaultingfrog

So umm... what pally tank can toss out attacks while blocking? Thats a gf ability only dude...

xvimn134

I understand no one want to nerf their class even they clearly know something doesn’t make sense, so I do not blame you. My main is GF not TR and I know how big advantage GF tank has in PVE and GF dps has in pvp with the shield bug.

And GF dps in PVE is weak they should get buff of their magnitude I agree 100%, but we should also fix bug if it exists.

I don’t need any horn overload artifact etc to get AP within 20 seconds, and I dont even need any AP% to do it within 20 seconds, OP 30 seconds at most and I can get AP within 15 seconds without using anything at my max speed. It’s not a little advantage it’s 3x speed. I can show you how to do it while tanking if you want.

You get AP around same speed in PVE with your rotation doesn’t mean others are too or the bug isn’t there. If you only use normal rotation u will gain AP at same speed of others. But when you are not attacking, you can still gain AP fast by fast by holding shield as long as you are in combat while other class can’t. And during fight You will get much faster AP gain than others If you do shift+attack.

And you claiming TR dodge can mitigate damage and GF shield is weak that’s right in certain mechanisms, but that is another topic.
My main is GF not TR btw.

xvimn134

> @vaultingfrog#2497 said:
> So umm... what pally tank can toss out attacks while blocking? Thats a gf ability only dude...

You can do it in a similar way. Try at will + shift + at will + shift u should get ap back within 30 seconds

And if you use the heal at will and do the sam e as I said while in combat, you can get AP back within 15 seconds.

sagakaiyume

If your issue is with guard canceling, that's one thing. But passive AP regen when guarding shouldn't be removed.

They have tried once before to fix the guard canceling back in mod 18, didn't work out. All they would have to do for that is apply a 1 second delay on block giving ap to fix that without hindering guard canceling for intended use. No dps is going to sit still not attacking for 1 sec for some ap gain. Fighter at wills while guarding is a joke, so it doesn't make up the loss of not using heavy slash/encountets. This 1 second delay also fixes the pally at-will + tab spam.

Passive AP gain is available on many classes while in combat, all healers and tank roles can gain ap during combat without hitting anything, HR doesn't need the advantage, wizard use to be able to build ap with their at will, unsure if that's still the case. I believe only rogues and barb dps can't gain AP passively without any buffs.

There are still options to gain AP outside of combat, like using the fey set to help with a fast pace environment where you're not always in combat.

xvimn134

The AP gain from cancellation are just from the AP gain when holding shield. You can test it by just keep pressing shift then cancel while in combat.

If it’s class wide then it’s fine just like using fey set. But no class should have superior advantage compared to others.

sagakaiyume

Last post doesn't address what I said, nor did I say it wasn't. Having a 1 second "cast" time before blocking gives passive ap gain removes the problem while keeping the intended effect; for tanks to be able to continue using guard cancel without the extra ap gain and to stay guarding until their ap hits 100% for rough situations.

fuxion

fighter shield should not deplete as fast as well in pvp and in general ... ridiculous atm cause its only defense mechanic they have ...fighters dont have dodge roll or teleport or shadowslip ... fighters always on short end

stark760

Well, AP might gain faster, but they are nerfing another fighter daily, bladed rampart will only give defense, not damage reduction and combat adv reduction. They won't address issue of faster AP gain...just nerf all the dailies.

burnahbros

Putting a 1 second delay on blocking cast time is a very bad idea! The game is already very laggy and there is already a delay from when you press block and your character actually raises their shield. If you put a cast time it would make the game 100% unplayable as a tank. And to comment further on the lag, I have the most expensive internet money can buy and every other game I play runs super smooth. The only game I ever have an issue playing is Neverwinter. I really wish they would put some resources into fixing the servers.

sagakaiyume

Not a casting on the block, 1 second delay on the ap regen while blocking.

stark760

burnahbros#7516 said:

Putting a 1 second delay on blocking cast time is a very bad idea! The game is already very laggy and there is already a delay from when you press block and your character actually raises their shield. If you put a cast time it would make the game 100% unplayable as a tank. And to comment further on the lag, I have the most expensive internet money can buy and every other game I play runs super smooth. The only game I ever have an issue playing is Neverwinter. I really wish they would put some resources into fixing the servers.

Maybe plan was to put less stress on server. I'd like to know what the avg hours players logged the last 2 days...and how many actually ran content vs staring at screen in disbelief.

vaultingfrog

I also don't know if you are aware or not but each class gains ap by doing its intended roll...

If a tank, in this case a gf or and op, is actively blocking damage they gain ap as that is their intended roll... or did you not read any tool tips for ap gain?

xvimn134

vaultingfrog#2497 said:

I also don't know if you are aware or not but each class gains ap by doing its intended roll...



If a tank, in this case a gf or and op, is actively blocking damage they gain ap as that is their intended roll... or did you not read any tool tips for ap gain?

not sure where is that tooltip for ap gain, never see it. All other class seems can not gain ap from shift, blocking damage to give ap is fine tbh, but blocking air um...

rjc9000

vaultingfrog#2497 said:

I also don't know if you are aware or not but each class gains ap by doing its intended roll...



If a tank, in this case a gf or and op, is actively blocking damage they gain ap as that is their intended roll... or did you not read any tool tips for ap gain?

The one on Goofy Fighter (and cloned on Paladin) is long outdated.

Pre Mod 16, you *did* gain Action Point gain as you blocked enemy attacks. I am not sure what the formula was, but I suspect it was a ratio relating to the amount of damage you block versus your total HP pool.

Post Mod 16, if you merely hold up Guard (or tap Guard) in combat, you will just generate flat AP per second you hold up Guard, regardless of enemy attacks hitting or missing your guard. You would generate 1.67% of total AP per second under pre combat changes, before factoring AP Gain bonuses. Post combat changes, I would guess that you generate 2.22% of your maximum Action Points per second you hold down Guard in combat, before AP Gain bonuses.

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