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Official - Combat Adjustments - Companions

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  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited January 2021
    I understand that some players want combat companions to go away. To them... the lower they perform the better. For the companion users and ultimate game balance, it is important to get the math straight.



    Augment gives 3,000 stats x 2 boost = 6,000 stats, plus a boatload of health. this equals about 5-7% damage.
    A companion in next mod is designed to give a base of 5-7% damage. (not there at this moment)

    1 normal max Runestone confers an augment user with 2,000 stats. This converts to about 1% damage increase.
    1 max Indomitable Runestone gives 40% of (5-7%) the base combat damage of a companion... about 2.4% damage increase.

    1 normal mount insignia produces an augment user with about 1% damage increase.
    1 warlords insignia gives 20% of a companion's base damage with no Runestones equipped.... about a 1.2% damage increase.
    1 warlords insignia gives 68% of a companion base damage with max Indomitables equipped... about a 4% damage increase.

    1 reusable item can give an augment user about 2% extra damage
    1 reusable Lliira's Bell gives a combat companion user with no indomitables about 1.2% extra damage
    1 reusable Lliira's Bell gives a combat companion user with max indomitables about 4% extra damage



    This tells us that to make companions and augments equitable, we need to get the base damage at 5-7%, cut indomitable runestone bonus to 20% (down from 40%), and cut warlords insignia to 10% (down from 20%), and make no changes to Lliira's Bell. With the proposed changes, the following differential will exist. (assumes a 6% base damage companion used)

    Augment + 6 max stones + 3 mount bonuses + 1 reuseable item = plus 17% extra damage.
    CombatCompanion + 6 indomitables + 3 Warlord's bonuses + Lliira's Bell = plus 19.8% extra damage.




    With these changes... an augment will usually be superior, but a 6% combat companion will be competitive in a casual environment. If a companion outlier exists with a base damage from 7-9%, then it would be competitive in end-game environments. Any companion over 10% base damage would need a nerf-down to preserve game balance.

    In practice, a companion user's damage is less controllable and hard to direct at priority targets. Companion damage does not benefit from user procs, and does not count toward user damage proc pre-requisites. In high damage environments, a companion is likely to spend a lot of time dead, and thus not contributing. A combat companion will often mindlessly aggro enemy groups before you are prepared. For these reasons, combat companion damage should not be inferior to augment damage. It should be equal or slightly higher.
    Post edited by zimxero#8085 on
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,040 Arc User
    @noworries#8859

    Question for you.
    While Xuna and Abysal Chicken got adjusted and it's Ok.

    However, question whats about companions other than dps type.
    The CC/heal and tank type.


    The tank companion unable override players threat and get enemies agroo on himself.
    Other thing their stats way too low to even act as tank. Tank or not tank, or heal or dps type their all durability is same.
    Which more less tank companion neither CC, neither heal neither extra dps which put them somewhere in the middle of nowhere.

    Now about CC companions rather similar case,, their inpact in combat is little to none. Which bring question what is their purpose?

    The heal companion where usefull at some point. Maybe some be usefull too. But in most cases, parties would use dps just to make fights quicker.

    So for now only dps type companions and even few of them are actually worth to use..

    From Xuna/abysal chicken to yet another few companion meta, while rest remain irrelevant.
    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
  • rosh#3730 rosh Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited January 2021
    It is hard to satisfy both parties

    I for myself refuse to have fighting companion becuase I like my character doing dps and so I use augment

    The system on live is just broken when I see top of dps chart a tank or healer doing more damage coming mostly from Xuna and chicken that is when you know the system is broken

    So complains about adjust is just invalid

    The only way to ultimately balance them is this

    remove augment companions from system all together simple as that

    Make it that 1 warlord and indomitable runestone works any extra doesn't stack and

    buff the fighting companions dps by 18% damage

    As much as I hate it but you can't have 2 companion system it has to be 1 system, all mmo have either fighting or vanity companion the augment is just vanity companion in essence
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,040 Arc User
    edited January 2021
    *delete* ( stopped being relevant)
    Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited January 2021
    - Companion Damage Data Testing -

    I'm testing a few companions each day and posting the accumulating results here. Each test is a clear of Haruman's Hill mobs, maintaining the same stats and equipment listed below. The build sacrifices about 15-20% character damage by using combat companion and damage boosters instead of an augment and stat boosters. The multiplier on Companion damage is about 550% from damage boosters. According to NoWorries, the target for base companion damage is 5-7% of the character, so a companion in that range should be showing around 6,000 DPS base... 33,000 DPS boosted. All companion damage shown amplified at about 500% of base (from boosters), unless the word "raw" or "base" is next to the companion name.

    Paragon - Dreadnought
    Total Item Level - 46,686
    Health - 554,256
    Damage - 5,602
    Power - 89%
    Accuracy - 81.1%
    Combat Advantage - 64.9%
    Critical Strike - 50.3%
    Critical Severity - 72.7%

    Equipment:
    Rank 15 Indomitable Runestone x6
    Warlords Inspiration Insignia Bonus x3
    Lliira's Bell of Empowerment x1
    Rank 14 Dread Weapon Enchantment x1

    Order of Data
    % of damage companion dealt on run (out of character + companion)
    Companion Name (recorded DPS)
    Abilities (AoE, fire, poison, damage reduction, warp, etc...)



    - COMPANIONS server build 1218a.1-

    47.17 - Succubus (64,307) - AoE, Damage Reduction, Vulnerability
    41.82 - Xuna (43,966) - Teleport, Poison
    38.06 - Chultan Tiger (34,239) - AoE, Bleed (BUG: stats don't increase for Mythic upgrade)
    29.75 - Cantankerous Mage (30,304) - AoE, CA, Repel
    28.82 - Travelling Entertainer (30,651) - AoE, Fire
    28.72 - Batiri (40,617) - Poison
    28.63 - Abyssal Chicken (22,927) - Dual Target, Bleed
    28.46 - Dancing Blade (38,543) - CA
    26.02 - Blink Dog (26,940) - Teleport, CA
    25.66 - Cockatrice (21,417) - AoE, Slow
    20.78 - Cambion Magus (16,337) - AoE, Fire, Knockdown
    19.56 - Death Slaad (15,476) - AoE, Poison
    15.74 - Flame Sprite (20,206) - Daze, Fire
    15.39 - Cave Bear (10,134) - +150 Critical Avoid
    13.96 - Black Death Scorpion (12,875) - Poison, CA
    13.41 - Alchemist Experimenter (8,761) - AoE, Heal

    * notes - In this build, a few companions are dealing too much damage when amplified, but base is close.



    - COMPANIONS server build 1218a.2 -
    (companion base damage was reduced in this build)

    20.68 - Splinters (14,584) -
    20.07 - Mystagogue (13,781) -
    19.52 - Halfling Wayward Wizard (12,792) -
    14.95 - Xuna (16,059) -
    12.97 - Quickling (8,878) -
    10.30 - Phoera (7,078) -
    10.20 - Mercenary (6,076) -
    7.55 - Skeletal Dog (5,521) -
    7.08 - Green Slime (4,594) -
    6.82 - Dog (6,365) -
    6.38 - Spined Devil (4,617) -
    6.02 - Shadow Demon (4,249) -
    5.99 - Githyanki (4,912) -
    5.65 - Staldorf (3,963) -
    5.31- Razorwood (3,074) -
    5.20 - Ice Sprite (6,549) -
    5.04 - Grung (3,086) -
    4.94 - Rust Monster (4,192) -
    4.76 - Moonshae Druid (3,372) -
    4.54 - Xuna - raw base (3,299) -
    3.97- Portal Hound (2,472) -
    3.61 - Pseudodragon (6,246) -
    3.59 - Minstrel (2,084) - Heals
    3.45 - Helmite Paladin (3,022) - Heals
    3.08 - Redcap Powrie (3,307) -
    1.51 - Frost Mimic (1,940) -

    * notes -Base is now half of where it should be. Recommend doubling base and nerfing indomitables in half.



    - COMPANIONS server build 0105A.0 -
    (companion base damage was doubled, indomitable runestone %magnitudes were halved)

    22.59 - Incubus (18,349) -
    22.12 - Wayward Wizard (21,559) -
    20.39 - Xuna (14,439) -
    19.60 - Renegade Evoker (14,557) -
    19.04 - Intellect Devourer (15,598) -
    15.85 - Crystal Golem (16,384) -
    14.57 - Stalwart Golden Lion (9,881) -
    13.13 - Armored Orc Wolf (9,207) -
    12.48 - Assassin Drake (7,823) -
    10.45 - Neverember Guard Archer (8,751) -
    10.06 - Damaran Shepherd (6,594) -
    9.86 - Xuna - raw base (6,648) -
    9.73 - Lava Galeb Duhr (6,089) -
    8.35 - Wolf (7,095) -
    8.34 - Tamed Velociraptor (5,467) -
    6.09 - Yeth Hound (5,141) -
    5.76 - Vanguard of the Citadel (3,299) -
    5.75 - Wiggins (4,583) -
    5.04 - Young Yeti (5,153) -
    4.99 - Dancing Shield (3,484) -
    4.99 - Zhentarim Warlock (3,310) -
    4.12 - Wild Hunt Rider (4,266) -
    3.27 - Lizardfolk Shaman (3,439) - Heals
    1.19 - Alpha Compy (4,488) -

    * notes -Warlord's Insignia and Lliira's Bell might not be proccing now.




    - COMPANIONS server build 0105A.4 -
    (any changes since last build are unknown, but minor)

    18.00 - Water Archon (20,348) -
    16.58 - Xuna (20,481) -
    14.44 - Earth Archon (15,870) -
    14.07 - Apprentice Healer (16,144) - Heals
    11.98 - Vicious Dire Wolf (17,621) -
    13.58 - Air Archon (12,501) -
    12.82 - Manticore (11,383) -
    11.91 - Lightfoot Thief (11,173) -
    10.07 - Wererat Thief (11,072) -
    11.35 - Jagged Dancing Blade (9,212) -
    11.40 - Frozen Galeb Duhr (9,008) -
    12.39 - Dragonborn Brawler (7,937) -
    12.62 - Boar (7,537) -
    7.98 - Grazilaxx (11,628) -
    10.68 - Greenscale Bowman (8,567) -
    11.24 - Swashbuckler (7,524) -
    10.43 - Netherese Arcanist (7,609) -
    8.68 - Skeleton (8,337) -
    11.32 - Storm Rider (6,378) -
    9.37 - Slyblade Kobold (7,035) -
    8.55 - Hell Hound (7,449) -
    8.22 - Crab (7,510) -
    9.39 - Con Artist (6,483) -
    3.91 - Sprite (15,443) -
    7.38 - Kenku Archer (6,454) -
    8.55 - Wandering Scarecrow (5,443) -
    6.75 - Fire Archon (6,446) -
    8.46 - Galeb Duhr (4,796) -
    8.15 - Iron Golem (4,720) -
    6.95 - Cleric Disciple (4,403) - Heals
    5.26 - Rimefire Golem (5,524) -
    5.49 - Makos (5,241) -
    2.19 - Hawk (11,279) -
    4.20 - Werewolf (5,744) - Charms
    5.94 - Leprechaun (3,979) -
    4.71 - Red Slaad (4,611) -
    6.19 - Adbar Shield Maiden (mythic) (3,082) -
    5.87 - Man at Arms (3,022) -
    3.25 - Duergar Theurge (5,300) -
    4.50 - Flaming Skull (3,355) -
    5.32 - Laughing Skull (2,639) -
    3.71 - Ambush Drake (3,601) -
    3.86 - Adbar Shield Maiden (white) (2,472) -
    3.33 - Blacksmith (2,669) -
    3.05 - Black Ice Prospector (2,888) -
    3.16 - Duergar Guard (2,266) -
    2.36 - Savage Allosaur (2,662) -
    2.99 - Kuo-toa (1,664) -
    2.05 - Pewter Golem (1,340) -
    1.61 - Elemental Air Cultist (1,485) -
    1.21 - Lilend (1,304) - Heals
    0.95 - Aranea (1,646) -
    0.87 - Repentent Dragon Cultist (1,260) -
    Post edited by zimxero#8085 on
  • rikitakirikitaki Member Posts: 815 Arc User
    edited January 2021
    Bug: Con Artist offense ACB (mythic) is being dodged (even by a dummy)
    [Combat (Self)]Rotter dodges your Conartist's Discipline
    [Combat (Self)]Your Conartist's Discipline gives 0 Physical Damage to Rotter.
    Post edited by rikitaki on
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,002 Arc User
    @noworries#8859

    Could you please take a look at the Quasit ACB ? The current offensive/defensive stat distribution makes it very difficult to use in proper builds. A def/def distribution could open up possibility for an awesome tank build based on this companion, as the two armor sets that have the "Underdark Mount and Companion Affinity" bonus are both tank oriented.
    Elite Whaleboy
  • rikitakirikitaki Member Posts: 815 Arc User
    bug:
    Pseudodragon (green rarity) ACB suggests in the tooltip to have 10% chance to restore 50% of max stamina on at-will power use.
    This would be a lot... if it would be true (- it is not).
  • coolgor28#5062 coolgor28 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 79 Arc User
    Yes batiri at least i think is doing 30% damage on act in a tomm run, but cant say for sure now bc we cant cap easy the stats without augument ,on how big is the diference with summoned or augument need more test and final builds.
    Guild

    The imaginary Friends

    Main Kingslayer.jr(barb)
  • mongrelsun#9373 mongrelsun Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    Summoning a non augment companion reduces my Deflection Severity from 49.9% to 49%.

    Summoning an Augment pet gives a 0.7% increase to Deflection severity ie 50.6%. I am unsure if the 0.9% reduction is still occurring for the augment pet but 0.7% does seem a bit low for the stat buff from an augment pet and other stats are raised more than 1%. The Owlbear Cub only gives the same 0.7% increase as the other augment pets even though Deflection severity is one of its enhanced stats.
  • tamtoucantamtoucan Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 64 Arc User
    Cryptic Insight companion power
    Upgrading a flaming skull to mythic gives the same as Epic (300 IL, 1.5% Defense, 1.5% Combat Advantage).
  • tamtoucantamtoucan Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 64 Arc User
    Panther's Instincts companion power

    Could not get this to make any difference. I tested with my Ranger on a target dummy using Hindering Strike and then Storm Strike whilst the roots were active.

    Six hundred hits each with and without the power equipped. No difference to damage.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited January 2021
    Below is a snapshot of relative DPS ratings of companions that I've tested (barely over half of them).
    Wayward Wizard is tied on top and is easily picked up for free by every player as they start the game.
    I recommend a slight decrease of the top companions to bring them into a broader cluster of top combat companions. This would create a richer variety of selections in game-play, while preserving values. Wayward Wizard was dropped extra, because, as a clear best top-runner that is also free, it would in turn make the others worthless.


    The number on the left is a generalized damage value based on recorded values compared to a baseline. Tests were performed versus mobs. Some companions, such as Batiri, will perform better versus single targets.


    DPS COMPANION - Suggested Decrease in Damage
    13 Wayward Wizard - 25%
    12 Incubus - 15%
    12 Succubus - 15%
    11 Splinters - 10%
    11 Mystagogue - 10%
    10 Halfling Wayward Wizard - 10%
    10 Intellect Devourer - 5%
    10 Xuna - 5%
    10 Renegade Evoker - 5%
    9 Crystal Golem
    8 Chultan Tiger
    8 Batiri
    8 Dancing Blade
    7 Cantankerous Mage
    7 Stalwart Golden Lion
    7 Travelling Entertainer
    7 Quickling
    6 Armored Orc Wolf
    6 Blink Dog
    6 Abyssal Chicken
    6 Assassin Drake
    6 Neverember Guard Archer
    6 Phoera
    5 Cockatrice
    5 Mercenary
    5 Damaran Shepherd
    4 Wolf
    4 Lava Galeb Duhr
    4 Cambion Magus
    4 Dog
    4 Skeletal Dog
    4 Flame Sprite
    4 Death Slaad
    4 Tamed Velociraptor
    4 Ice Sprite
    4 Green Slime
    4 Spined Devil
    4 Githyanki
    3 Shadow Demon
    3 Yeth Hound
    3 Black Death Scorpion
    3 Pseudodragon
    3 Staldorf
    3 Wiggins
    3 Young Yeti
    3 Rust Monster
    3 Cave Bear
    3 Razorwood
    3 MoonShae Druid
    3 Grung
    3 Alchemist Experimenter
    3 Vanguard of the Citadel
    2 Wild Hunt Rider
    2 Dancing Shield
    2 Zhentarim Warlock
    2 Helmite Paladin
    2 Redcap Powrie
    2 Portal Hound
    2 Lizardfolk Shaman
    2 Dwarven Battle Rager
    2 Minstrel
    1 Alpha Compy
    1 Frost Mimic
  • hrakhhrakh Member Posts: 151 Arc User
    edited January 2021
    The methodology used to get to that list of companions and suggested damage decreases is, to be nice about it, a little flawed.

    By introducing the full companion boost package, including things that may or may not be used/procced 100% consistently across different testing runs. And by using Haruman's Hill clear (which does not have the same set/amount of enemies every time) you have created a dataset that, at best, could be used to indicate companions that are interesting for actual testing.

    To draw any conclusions, let alone far reaching recommendations on which companions to change, a more solid set of data would be required.
  • coolgor28#5062 coolgor28 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 79 Arc User
    For sure need more data and act log runs on some dangeon at least to see overall damage of companion and gear used, for single target like tomm or zariel is more easy to see companion contribute on your damage but in normal dangeons will depends on party also.
    Guild

    The imaginary Friends

    Main Kingslayer.jr(barb)
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,002 Arc User
    Dont know if this has been reported, but Baby Owlbears prescense hits for a grand total of 0 (zero)


    Elite Whaleboy
  • samfandango#1314 samfandango Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited January 2021
    Bug fixed
    Post edited by samfandango#1314 on
  • tamtoucantamtoucan Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 64 Arc User
    tamtoucan said:

    Panther's Instincts companion power

    Could not get this to make any difference. I tested with my Ranger on a target dummy using Hindering Strike and then Storm Strike whilst the roots were active.

    Six hundred hits each with and without the power equipped. No difference to damage.

    Repeated this with latest patch and no change. It would good if someone could at least acknowledge it is a problem and commit to putting any fix in patch notes (don't care when, it's just I'd rather not hit a dummy 1200 times every time there is a new patch).

  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited January 2021
    Quickling and Flame Sprite are still over performing the 7% of player damage. Quickling is over performing quite a bit, flame sprite just a bit. Quickling damage should be reduced somewhat. I will test other strikers. Is the desired still about 7% of player damage so that they are equivalent to augments?|

    Updated with numbers:
    Flame Sprite about ~20% of damage in a 3 minute parse
    Quickling about ~22% damage in a 3 minute parse

    They both need a solid 40% damage nerf.
    Post edited by jman3l#5579 on
  • eladonwarps#6040 eladonwarps Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    The part I'm unsure of, is that 7% being quoted supposed to be at Mythic? What's the target for other qualities?
    Call me El, she/her only. Currently Professions-only until the next combat change fixes this mess.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited January 2021

    Quickling and Flame Sprite are still over performing the 7% of player damage. Quickling is over performing quite a bit, flame sprite just a bit. Quickling damage should be reduced somewhat. I will test other strikers. Is the desired still about 7% of player damage so that they are equivalent to augments?|

    Updated with numbers:
    Flame Sprite about ~20% of damage in a 3 minute parse
    Quickling about ~22% damage in a 3 minute parse

    They both need a solid 40% damage nerf.

    I agree on Flame Sprite.... not sure why its damage is so high. I ran a test using my at-wills only to get a good idea of how much damage the top battle companions are doing. I used the two giants in the beginning of LoMM for comparison. Flame Sprite was doing more damage than me in these tests. Afterward i went in full power in a test with Flame Sprite and it got less than 10% of my total damage. My suggestion is to bring Flame Sprite damage down a bit. I don't see an issue with Quickling or Vicious Dire Wolf, since Xuna does almost as much damage as them in single target, and Xuna outperforms them in AoE. Note that the DPS values below were with maximum boost from indomitables, warlords, Liirras Bell. These tests were performed 1/18/2021 between 2pm and 3pm Central Standard Time.

    % total Damage - Companion - (DPS recorded) - notes

    57.26 - Flame Sprite (22,895) -
    44.79 - Quickling (15,396) -
    42.87 - Vicious Dire Wolf (16,037) -
    40.36 - Xuna (12,226) -
    40.86 - Ice Sprite (10,734) -
    35.84 - Incubus (9,816) -
    32.55 - Crystal Golem (9,447) -
    32.19 - Succubus (8,562) -
    34.01 - Mystagogue (7,643) -
    29.21 - Sprite (7,851) -
    26.77 - Armored Orc Wolf (7,987) -
    22.33 - Halfling Wayward Wizard (8,041) -
    27.71 - Wayward Wizard (5,742) -
    23.52 - Chultan Tiger (6,659) -
    22.23 - Batiri (6,619) -
    26.59 - Intellect Devourer (5,460) -
    21.27 - Dancing Blade (6,226) -
    23.75 - Renegade Evoker (5,453) -
    23.26 - Splinters (4,826) -
    17.84 - Water Archon (5,674) -
    17.80 - Earth Archon (4,674) -
    11.05 - Stalwart Golden Lion (2,970) -
    9.02 - Apprentice Healer (3,180) - Heals
  • melechestmelechest Member Posts: 106 Arc User
    Healing companions are still useless. On Mythic they still can heal for 13-14k max on with each ability. For a 900k+ HP tank this is absolutely nothing.
  • forumaccount#7167 forumaccount Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    The cryptic insight companion bonus only has375 combined rating at mythic instead of 750 combined rating
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,379 Arc User
    enchacement power of companions they should change to be also based on heals to trigger.For a cleric healer for example teh enchacement power precision will not trigger because a cleric do not use powers to attack.
  • admiralwarlord#3792 admiralwarlord Member Posts: 546 Arc User
    enchacement power of companions they should change so you have the same level bonus as the summado companion, having to upgrade in 1 companion to mythical just to have the most of this bonus that is casual is an extra expense for players!
  • elderislt#1066 elderislt Member Posts: 146 Arc User
    fire sprite companjon do masive dmg on solo target in live server :3
    BABY ZARIEL.... 270k base HUNTER
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