Recent Thoughts on Neverwinter

hotfrostworm

My wife says, I never gave this game real shot.

The day before yesterday, I took my level 71 cleric into Undermountain. I got about 50% done when I hit level 80. That was the point where the sword of intelligence became one with a green dragon. I returned the next day to try the end game content. I asked players in Protector's Enclave and they told me I was "under geared" for Avernus. I explained to them I got my first two boon points in Undermountain, I felt like I need a bit more challenge. After I made it to Vallenhas, I thought there would be something to really thwart me. No, I was somewhat disappointed. Most of the players talk in short code, they call the demonic encounters APEs, I suppose that is an apt description. After some time there, I was again told by players I should be better geared... Why? I am not dying and if I do, I just respawn, heal up, and head back into the fight.

At this point, I was informed this was not the real end game content and the best is Avernus. I went upstairs and spoke to Lulu... enough said there. I then whisked away to the REAL Avernus. Once there, I successfully built a car in Hell's junkyard, drove it to the mall, and stole back an elephant's memory all within an hour. I didn't find any of this exciting, fun, remotely difficult, or entertaining. I tried, I gave the game a real shot and I didn't find anything creative or tough about it.

I like games that are mentally stimulating, this is just bang bang, another bad guy is dead, collect 150 whatever currency and give it to the purple hippo. Why? No reason. This game seems to be dedicated to no reason. Some players suggested I gear up and try the Redeemed Citadel. I don't see any point, if I can get my Cleric from nowhere to somewhere, why would I want to do the Redeemed Citadel? They answered, for better gear so you don't have a hard time. My point is I am not having a hard time, unless I am missing the difficulty settings, this game is far removed from anything I would ever find challenging.

That is my feedback on this online game. I guess I will never understand the draw to play it consistently or on a regular basis. It is a nice place jump in and vent off some steam but I don't see a real need to be best in slot. My cleric as I stated has only 2 boon points, I spent them on bonus health. I am still wearing the green armors I picked up in Undermountain, those seem to function well enough. I have 5 green companions, all fighters and my best is the Cold Iron warrior at rank 25. My item level is now 14,501 not sure what that really means, but everyone seems to talk about it. This is not the Dark Souls of online gaming everyone makes it out to be.

Happy gaming!

nic1985

@hotfrostworm Campaign zones can be hard and challenging but it is not "end game". Like you said, if you died "respawn, heal up, and head back into the fight." In my opinion the end game would be dungeons/instances like Infernal Citadel, Tower of Mad Mage and Zariel Challenge (master).

Campaigns like what you are doing, are just grindy elements of the game to keep you busy and gearing up for dungeons/instances. Either you grind or you pay to speed things up to get to "end game".

micky1p00

First of all, disclaimer, I was grouped up as "an elitist jerk in an ivory tower" because I argued that hard content is an important part of an MMO, creating long term goal to gear up, improve towards, and in healthy community will create social interactions as players try to overcome it together. (Ofc there are negative sides, like toxic hamsters who ruin it for everyone).
That standpoint is regardless of my personal capability to complete said content. I argue that it should exists even if I can't complete it.

Now I'll be direct, and I don't mean to offend in any way, but I just don't want to beat around the bush though I will try.

Maybe I'm going to overthink things here (but I do like understand motivation and thought processes), I think you both ( Sandukutupu and You ) married for so long (and that's great), that you appropriate experiences from your shared communication. I'll try to explain: your wife isn't programmer or IT expert, yet tried to pass along your knowledge, probably with good intentions, but with such skewed result that it's just end up wrong.
On the other hand, you know about the game, you experience part of it second hand, but mainly the facet that your significant other experiences. Which is not the game many of us experience.

The game tries to cater to somewhat wide range of players, centered around the casual. The "open" zones are significantly more casual and solo player friendly. Even the group activity is join and leave. You see a bunch of people, you join, and then leave.
We can also in many ways think of it as a tutorial. Since there is no significant penalty (except as minor delay) in dying or struggling (unless you are totally stuck)

Yet we have multiple posts that in those same zones players struggle when some mini-boss uses control skills, or a bit harder. Leading to discussions on how to deal with it, and what companions to use, while an end-game player will kill the same mini boss in one rotation. (Don't get me wrong, I'm more than happy to see people trying to overcome and share ideas. I'm just trying to point out that there is gap in terms of different players who play the game. And specifically what side you hear about - which is not end-game)

IMO, the actual end-game comes in the form of group content, and specifically the top trials and dungeons (which unfortunately neither you, nor your wife experienced). I will not claim them to be hard or easy, this is up to personal judgment. I will point out that the trials do take training, and there are dps checks, heal checks, and tank checks, that just holding the mouse button will not suffice. It doesn't make this "dark souls" thought, but please do ask yourself who makes it to sound like "the dark souls of online gaming". It's definitely not me.

Judging the game without those is like driving for the first time a bit in the parking lot, getting the hand of it, and deciding that driving a car is trivial. All that without getting out to the actual road, interstate, or significant traffic. There is no need to be a taxi driver in New York to experience driving, but the parking lot is just not enough.

To your question, of why to play and gear?

Personally that part you called the game, the fetch 20, kill 40, I hate with passion and usually find the most minimal way to complete and never look back. The story is negligible. The immersion is lacking.

To me it's the group challenges to do with the guild and friends that's the only reason to play. And to complete those you need some gear, mostly to compensate for the lack of personal skill (At least in my personal case). So we gear up, and play, overcome, then sit in discord, or do the end-game after the end-game - forum PvP.

darthpotater

Congrats, you competed the solo tutorial.

callumf

I get your point, there's no real consequences to dying in today's MMO games and hence no real fear, anxiety or challenge.

Back in 1999/2000 in Ultima Online there was total open world pvp, you could get dry looted, mobs looted your corpse and just running from th emoongate into town [safe area] was challenging. But most people hated it and so a safer version was created. But monsters still looted your corpse, so insurance was introduced...

Today's MMOer wants a challenge, but within the comfort of enjoyment not anxiety and tension. if you want a no nonsense challenge game I am sure there are plenty out there. Neveriwnter isnt really one of them...

OTHER than learnign the mechanics of the end game dungeons. I was taught how to heal through LOMM last night and that was loads of fun and pressure. Get it wrong and the party wipes. You should try it

hotfrostworm

Thank for your response to my feed back, I guess the issue isn't as much "end game" as more the reason for playing. If I back up again to when this all started, I was level 71 trying to troubleshoot chat related issues on my end. So I was chatting with the users in Protector's Enclave this weekend. A few were requesting LoMM and it didn't take long to understand I am locked out due to low item level. I asked them, Why do you run LoMM? The answer was to get good by harvesting gear.

Many suggested I run my character through Undermountain to reach level 80 first then gear up. The Undermountain has no real puzzles all it needs is quests A, B, C, ... done and you get to progress and acquire XP with gear sometimes. I own Waterdeep Undermountain: Dungeon of the Mad Mage, I picked it up over a year ago from Barnes and Noble. This game seems to be a reboot or a rewrite of that one, I have noticed how Cryptic attempts to make everything kid friendly and politically correct. I don't have any issue playing in a universe rated PG for the sake of the children.

As you said, this game lacks immersion. It doesn't necessitate lack immersion, but it does never the less. The cycle of this game is level up, acquire better gear, grind the same dungeons that never change. Then they drop the next campaign and you repeat the cycle, even at level cap you continue to level up with item level. There is no need for a level cap, you just grind to become an immortal. The problem with hack and slash gaming without the immersion is a low shelf life.

The game is pretty good for a free to play model. It is just not something I will invest hours of time or money to play. I would suggest some improvements, but many have been discussed, and continue to be discussed. I would just be repeating what others have already said in the past. I would however suggest, they abandon the idea of scaling, and just put in a difficulty setting toggle. I was dumbfounded by the fact, that my simple cleric, upon reaching level 80 was able to play the game as a sandbox, the only restriction being the level locked dungeons.

Enjoy your game, I am getting back to work.