The new reward system is not player friendly

the1truehunter

When we requested a rework of rewards system we didn`t mean new drops at their lowest drop chance. We are tired of gambling in MMOs especially when we have to spend time completing a piece of content. If I queue for a Dungeon and spend 20-30mins to complete it and I have to gamble up to 40k AD each time because I hope there will be something good I can use I won`t do anything else but wasting my time and AD. The system in actual form is nothing else than a bad concept of AD sync. I no longer have fun in Neverwinter because everything spins around rng and gambling my time. People who designed these systems as they are right now they didn`t do it for human beings thinking there are people behind the screens, spending time and money trying to have fun leaving their problems away but they did it for profit. That makes me sad. The fact that we have some interesting rewards behind rng. I expected a rewark to the guaranteed rewards that we get in chests because I am tired and I have no use for obsolete armor pieces and so on nor for RP. The game become more p2w than player friendly in any way. For me p2w is not related about subscription. It is about the number of items you can obtain by paying, not playing. In this case you win the hunge amount of time you`ll probably waste trying to farm for hours gambling you AD to get 1 preservation ward or 1 scroll of mass life or 2 tradebars..I mean come on guys..
I am an endgame player. And this is what I feel. The only reason anyone would ever pay for anything in this game is to have a higher damage number poping on their screen. The content is the same for everyone, the rewards not worthing the time nor the money. The designs are bad and rushed, the gameplay is mediocre and the quality control is still bad. The only reason I play the game is because I don`t have time to learn another game and most of them are too huge to be discovered. But for sure I am not the only one who is waiting for the next big mmo showing up. And until now the only two options for Neverwinter is to try and milks as much as it can the people`s pokets or try and evolve becoming player friendly giving a unique experience that will worth both time and money. This is just my opinion abd feedback regarding what I`ve experienced in the past few months since Roadmap was released.

I am pretty sure if things won`t change, people will realise that you did it only for money and nothing else.

@cwhitesidedev#9752 I am not expecting you nor your team to come and lie about that. But let`s switch sides for once and play your product without using any admin privileges, engage, evolve and once you are in endgame let us know how the gameplay feels? Repetitive? Booring? Not rewarding? Pay for VIP sir, get these 3 reroll tokens and open some chests after 30 minutes. Or just do the randoms get 100k AD, refine and try to gamble it all for 1 scroll of life and 1 preservation ward or even better, keep the AD and buy something nice, maybe an epic mount at the end of the week. You will be 1% closer to 10 Mythic Mounts. Or just sell your car and house and let equip you with bis from Zen Store in just one click?

plasticbat

1. You should not gamble with AD which is not a new feature anyway and has nothing to do with the new reward system.
2. You should use re-roll token if you have. If you don't, what you see first should be what you take. If you choose to gamble, it is your choice.
3. That should be the basic rule of thumb before and after this "reward" change.
4. This is not worse than before the change. For me, it is indifferent mostly but with a tiny hope to get something good. i.e. it is as player friendly/unfriendly as before the change.

serpeer

plasticbat said:

This is not worse than before the change. For me, it is indifferent mostly but with a tiny hope to get something good. i.e. it is as player friendly/unfriendly as before the change.

Serious? 50 dungeons and still waiting for the first drop. Not a single scroll, not an artifact, not a companion or a mount, not a ward o a tradebar. NOTHING. Only a waste of time and re-roll tokens. The new bounded drop it's not rare, it's really hard to find. So why we have to do dungeons if have a drop it's hard and it's bounded?.

They are trying to make this a p2w and are, again, loosing thousand of players. Good job.

the1truehunter

plasticbat said:

1. You should not gamble with AD which is not a new feature anyway and has nothing to do with the new reward system.
2. You should use re-roll token if you have. If you don't, what you see first should be what you take. If you choose to gamble, it is your choice.
3. That should be the basic rule of thumb before and after this "reward" change.
4. This is not worse than before the change. For me, it is indifferent mostly but with a tiny hope to get something good. i.e. it is as player friendly/unfriendly as before the change.

You are everywere mate trying to explain how things works in the game. I know how things works. I am a veteran player. I do appreciate your incetive though. But the fact that after 30 minutes you get nothing in a dungeon basically, there is a problem that should be adressed. If you are pleased with the actual base loot or you like to get your items through ZEN or paying triple as much in value everything in Auction House go ahead, but please don`t tell me this is player friendly. When they do something they do for a reason and the main reason I can see in having these premium loots instead of a rework to base loots is because they want us to spend our reroll tokens but mostly AD rerolling the chests. No one is pleased with 400 RP some Rough AD and campaign currency that can buy nothing. It is not about choices. I can simply choice to not play the game and that s it. But I like the game. I just don`t like the way some systems flips around cash and time gating. If they want money they need to do it in a way that won`t affect the majority. Why I would spend my time playing a game if you can get everything with cash? BIS Think about it. And you are going to say that I don`t have to pay because I can get them in game? But it is worth? Of course not. At least in my opinion.

plasticbat

the1truehunter said:

Why I would spend my time playing a game if you can get everything with cash?

For me, there is only one answer (other can disagree). I would only do that because I enjoy the process. Otherwise, I would not play at all. The item can be bought with cash or not is irrelevant to me. If the process itself has no fun, I just won't do it regardless what the result is.

arazith07

I didn't even know that players would even consider spending AD to reroll...that just seems...counter-intuitive. As far as why run dungeons, I do it for the fun or for the rAD, anything extra is well extra.

the1truehunter

You are another type of player my friend. When you are a completionist trust me the process is tedious and repetitive. If am the type of player that want to achieve almost everything available in game and for that I need to spend a huge amount of time or cash. If you afk in PE or just chat there and this is what you find fun ok. I personally do endgame content and challenges are the only thing I find fun to play and only with friends. If you are casual player and do one run and it is fun for you think about people that do this 10-15 times a day trying to get something that can be sold in order to buy another thing for their collection or simply trying to get it inside a chest. There are two perspectives from two types of players. I can`t disagree with your pov because I am not your type of player.

plasticbat

You answered your question:

the1truehunter said:

Why I would spend my time playing a game if you can get everything with cash?

the1truehunter said:

I personally do endgame content and challenges are the only thing I find fun to play and only with friends.

the1truehunter

I didn`t. At least not on the subject. It is bad if the only thing I like in this game is to run TOMM and Zariel and not doing it for the rewards but for the challenge. And you can`t get where I am if you are not going through this tedious process of farming or paying cash. Or you can if you farm 100k AD and refine for 1 year straight to get 36m AD and buy 1/3 of you endgame stuff. And once you there everything become obsolete or it is nerfed and you`ll have to grind for another BIS thing. But you won`t care about BIS because you are a casual player and maybe the only reason you play the game is for storyline? Or for what in fact? Be serious and give valid arguments to the problem or move on bro. The main reason most people play this game is to get as good as they can and compete with others.

plasticbat

the1truehunter said:

I didn`t. At least not on the subject. It is bad if the only thing I like in this game is to run TOMM and Zariel and not doing it for the rewards but for the challenge. And you can`t get where I am if you are not going through this tedious process of farming or paying cash. Or you can if you farm 100k AD and refine for 1 year straight to get 36m AD and buy 1/3 of you endgame stuff. And once you there everything become obsolete or it is nerfed and you`ll have to grind for another BIS thing. But you won`t care about BIS because you are a casual player and maybe the only reason you play the game is for storyline? Or for what in fact? Be serious and give valid arguments to the problem or move on bro. The main reason most people play this game is to get as good as they can and compete with others.

I already answered that question above.

arazith07

If you are really endgame, why are you even wanting to spend AD for loot anyways? It never made sense before, and doesn't make sense now to. There are other ways to make AD in this game without having to get lucky on dungeon drops. Playing the market for example can get one to endgame in a matter of a few months without having to pay any money into the game. The main reward of any dungeon is rAD, until there is some major rework. You'll just end up fooling yourself if you try and think or pretend otherwise.

Also grinding is a part of any MMO, there is no getting around it. The trick is to find something to play that you like to grind in.

the1truehunter

I m not going further with this conversation because it is not on the subject. The feedback was on dungeon rewards system, not on the ways to make AD in game. In fact I don t care about AD, never cared and complained about AD. It is about the fact that I want the dungeon reward system to be more relevant for players including me. When I do an IC run and spend 15-25 mins inside in my case I do expect that in the end somerhing relevant and useful will come out of the box. Not trash and obsolete equipment, not RP because I can get it anywere else, not RAD because I have over 15m RAD and I have no use for it other than ensuring my daily conversion. Take it as tou want. It is my opinion and it is how I feel.

autumnwitch

Drops are decidedly better IMO. I have run less than 50 dungeons/skirmished and have got much better loot in general. (I use reroll tokens) That being said, not everyone gives out something, nor should it IMO.

I suggest you run the random skirmishes as that is where I have had the best luck with drops and they generally are over much faster than a dungeon and the queue time is not as long.

Sadly, it all comes down to RNG which is the bane of the gaming fandom.

zimxero

I'd like to see a dungeon specific AD reward added, like 1% chance that gives (IL level * average minutes of run)

An 8 minute skirmish at 7,000 IL would give 56,000 AD bonus (1% chance)
A 30 minute dungeon at 25,000 IL would give 750,000 AD bonus (1% chance)

This would go a little ways in balancing the reward between areas for invested effort, and increase the overall payouts some.

thefiresidecat

plasticbat said:

1. You should not gamble with AD which is not a new feature anyway and has nothing to do with the new reward system.
2. You should use re-roll token if you have. If you don't, what you see first should be what you take. If you choose to gamble, it is your choice.
3. That should be the basic rule of thumb before and after this "reward" change.
4. This is not worse than before the change. For me, it is indifferent mostly but with a tiny hope to get something good. i.e. it is as player friendly/unfriendly as before the change.

agree with all but 4. it IS worse. I used to get something.. SOMETHING at least once every three days just doing my daily random ques on 1 toon. I've been doing a lot of dungeons and trials and skirmishes to try it all out. many more than usual and I've got nothing of note. nothing at all. I don't count 1 presward here or 2 trade bars there as anything worth note. I've done a lot of codg and tong and fbi and they used to be reliable for SOMETHING but the rewards are pooh. honestly not worth playing. not worth rerolling. the wind is out of my sails on this. I don't know how much you've tried playing. I've even put forth on all three platforms. nothing at all. it's nerfed imo. definitely nerfed.

thefiresidecat

autumnwitch said:

Drops are decidedly better IMO. I have run less than 50 dungeons/skirmished and have got much better loot in general. (I use reroll tokens) That being said, not everyone gives out something, nor should it IMO.

I suggest you run the random skirmishes as that is where I have had the best luck with drops and they generally are over much faster than a dungeon and the queue time is not as long.

Sadly, it all comes down to RNG which is the bane of the gaming fandom.

what exactly have you gotten that is so much better than before? all I've seen are the occasional scroll or presward. that's not better than comps and mounts. 10k value vs 50k to 1 mil value is not good results. and yes I've been rerolling like a rerolling fool even in skirmishes.

thefiresidecat

arazith07 said:

If you are really endgame, why are you even wanting to spend AD for loot anyways? It never made sense before, and doesn't make sense now to. There are other ways to make AD in this game without having to get lucky on dungeon drops. Playing the market for example can get one to endgame in a matter of a few months without having to pay any money into the game. The main reward of any dungeon is rAD, until there is some major rework. You'll just end up fooling yourself if you try and think or pretend otherwise.

Also grinding is a part of any MMO, there is no getting around it. The trick is to find something to play that you like to grind in.

while that is absolutely true for end game players, what about people who are not end game. this method used to be a reliable way for people trying to build up to that level. and even for end game, it was fun. I have many millions of ad and toons with tons of things. I'm probably in the top 5% or 10% of wealthy individuals and no, I didn't get there by dungeon drops for big wealth. but doing daily dungeons with the reliable fun carrot kept me coming back. because FUN. what's in that grab bag. I don't expect great pay outs every day or every three days but I'd like to see something every three days on average. be it a green comp or mount or an epic comp and mount and I'd like to ability to give it out at guild events as I've been doing. or on my toons on pc and ps4 who are poor as church mice to resell to work towards being able to get my bondings up. that's all gone.

autumnwitch

thefiresidecat said:

autumnwitch said:

Drops are decidedly better IMO. I have run less than 50 dungeons/skirmished and have got much better loot in general. (I use reroll tokens) That being said, not everyone gives out something, nor should it IMO.

I suggest you run the random skirmishes as that is where I have had the best luck with drops and they generally are over much faster than a dungeon and the queue time is not as long.

Sadly, it all comes down to RNG which is the bane of the gaming fandom.

what exactly have you gotten that is so much better than before? all I've seen are the occasional scroll or presward. that's not better than comps and mounts. 10k value vs 50k to 1 mil value is not good results. and yes I've been rerolling like a rerolling fool even in skirmishes.

Before I got something extra maybe 1 in 50 runs/chests, after they flipped the switch I am getting stuff maybe 1 in 5 chests opened. Pres wards, life scrolls, health stones (unbound), artefacts, companions, mounts (one I really wanted too even tho it was just a green), even a mount collar (basic) more RAD over all WAY more in fact. Seems like I am making my 100K way faster than normal. The whole lot in fact.

Mind you I have 30 toons so almost everything I can get I can use one way or another I also have 1000s of re-roll tokens because I stopped running dungeons out of frustration ages ago. And lastly, any gems or enchants I get I throw in my guild coffers because we are growing like mad so even the level 5 and 6 enchants don't go to waste.

It's all cake to me although it sounds like mileage my vary by each person.

EDIT: I forgot add genie's gift and the books you need for various tasks like Haarl's Treatise, etc.

taikaias

What dungeons are dropping anything, besides basic dungeon loot, genies gifts, and trade bars? How many dungeons do you have to run to get one companion, one mount, or one artifact to drop?

zimxero

This info was listed for a brief time and then redacted, unless I imagined it. Been looking for the same data myself.

I don't remember all the numbers that were posted. It was something like....

Chance of a Premium Loot from one opening: 10%
Chance of a basic premium drop was over 98%
Chance of companion or mount was a bit less than 1% each.

The info could have been wrong and I have certainly not remembered it spot on, but it did suggest that everything was a random drop table/subtable , and nothing was to vary between dungeons. Yet a different post had suggested that harder content would have better rewards... so I don't know, its conflicting statements.


Anyway, if you have a 1% chance to get a random mount each time you get premium loot, and you get premium loot 10% of the time you open a chest, you need to use an average of 1,000 re-rolls before you run into a mount. (about 100 dungeons/trials/skirmishes if they contain 2 chests each run).

taikaias

Are they going to be changing this or keeping this? An average of 1000 rerolls to get any mount or companion? The prices of bulette pups have gone from 600k before the changes to 1.6m to 1.7m after the changes. Are they going to be adding most mounts and companions to the Zen Store to compensate?

taikaias

I run 5-10 dungeons every night, on average, and I reroll most of them. I haven't gotten anything other than genies gifts and trade bars or a few life scrolls. Most times, I don't even get that much. I've stopped running dungeons, because I haven't gotten anything.... that's why I was asking about drop rates and whether this will be changed or not.

ontrix1

I have to agree, since the new "drop" system has been put in place, the awards have not approved. For instance, I have run several dungeons each day including RTQ, REDQ, etc. and have yet to pull a collar. I have also found that rarely, when doing a reroll, do the rewards approve. Usually the first award is the best reward. I have limited time to play the game and would like to get some endgame content through dungeon chests. Otherwise, I still enjoy the game and will continue playing even though Cryptic continues to play with the drop & monetary system.

scratchees

8 years playin dont think i ever remember drops be'n like this i run alotta dungeons every night and skirmishes "always" i have spent a fortune in ad past few weeks and rerolls and havnt gotten anything worth while to drop and its worse now since new system sadly i aint running much now i save so much just collect my 100k each day nd move on seems to be working in making some ad "dungeoning" now sets me back in ad and that mostly all i do

taikaias

autumnwitch said:

Before I got something extra maybe 1 in 50 runs/chests, after they flipped the switch I am getting stuff maybe 1 in 5 chests opened. Pres wards, life scrolls, health stones (unbound), artefacts, companions, mounts (one I really wanted too even tho it was just a green), even a mount collar (basic) more RAD over all WAY more in fact. Seems like I am making my 100K way faster than normal. The whole lot in fact.

You have an rng then that most people don't have. What dungeons are you running to get those drops? LOMM, MSP, ELOL, MC, FBI, Kessels, TONG, ESOT, MOH, CODG, and Dread Legion haven't dropped anything beyond a tradebar or two for me, no matter how many times I run them and no matter how many times that I reroll them.

kierlakx

zimxero#8085 said:

This info was listed for a brief time and then redacted, unless I imagined it. Been looking for the same data myself.

I don't remember all the numbers that were posted. It was something like....

Chance of a Premium Loot from one opening: 10%
Chance of a basic premium drop was over 98%
Chance of companion or mount was a bit less than 1% each.

The info could have been wrong and I have certainly not remembered it spot on, but it did suggest that everything was a random drop table/subtable , and nothing was to vary between dungeons. Yet a different post had suggested that harder content would have better rewards... so I don't know, its conflicting statements.


Anyway, if you have a 1% chance to get a random mount each time you get premium loot, and you get premium loot 10% of the time you open a chest, you need to use an average of 1,000 re-rolls before you run into a mount. (about 100 dungeons/trials/skirmishes if they contain 2 chests each run).

Those drop rates seem too high for what I have experienced. I'm at ~90 chests opened and have only had 6 'premium' drops total: 3 single presvervation wards, 2 drops of trade bars, and a single genie's gift.

darthpotater

First, "rerolling" a chest is a concept that removes any epic moment that you can have opening a chest. More in a dungeons and dragons game where you do the hard work, kill the bad guys, and get the rewards.

If you want to implement an AD sink, put more chests in each dungeon, and put chest keys in the bazaar. But hell dont make me feel like I am in Dungeons and Dragons Las Vegas edition.


Also, I was shocked when people started reporting some rewads
- 1 Tarmalune bar.... 1????? really? Is better to put 10 with less chance...
- Same with mount / companion tokens, preservation wards or other things.

Is ok to have big prizes like the legendary mount or the runic bag, good feeling if you get them. But the "normal" rewards are more important, here is my feedback:

- Increase the ammount of tokens / tarmalunes / preserv and reduce the chance of getting them
- Increase the chance to get a bound companion / mount
- Implement an option to "salvage" companions and mounts for companion tokens / mount tokens depending on the rarity of the companion / mount


Edit: Typos

rafaelda

36 Runs thats more than 60 chests i got nothing, i mean not evena a green mount or companion...

it seems that it was changed from getting a lot of low vallue suff to have 1% chance to get something really valuable, i recall that all cpd people talked about RGN being bad and that grindy but sure stuff would be better...

I was waiting to se this changes to buy VIP again, that saves me money, rerols are useless i have no need for vip...

blag001

"Premium Loot" is a big joke.

About 30/40 Skirmishes/Dungs, doing rerolls (5 rolls or until premium prize apears) my "Premium" were:

2 pres wards (two drops)
2 Tamalure bars (one drop)
1 Scroll of Life (one drop)

one pres ward at chest... ONE...

Not worth at all...

Unknown

This content has been removed.

the1truehunter

I was about to make a post regarding IC the other day but I forgot to print screen the rerolls. I did 3 IC runs yesterday and today and I got nothing besides these base "rewards". So for me it is more like a waste of time. I had enough fun completing these dungeons when first come out. No longer.