Balance Farming of Zariel's Favor

fdsakhfduewhfiuf

The different options for farming Zariel's favor are highly unbalanced. Ignoring weekly challenges you have the following options, AFAIK.

• BHE giving 30 favor plus 10 favor per critter hit (most of the times).
  
• HE giving 20 favor plus whatever the mobs give or don't give.
  
• Doing quests, giving 30 to 50 favors.
  
• Killing Gary and Mog, giving 20 favors (not guaranteed?).
  
• Killing stuff, giving 1 to 10 favors (or nothing).
  

From all the availaible options running the BHE only is twice as efficient as the other options. In my tests I was able to get about 2000 favor/h when doing BHEs and about 1000 favor/h when doing quests and killing mobs.

IMHO this should be more balanced. Things to change could be...

• Increase favors for HE completion and favor dropped by mobs in HEs.
  
• Increase favor given for quests.
  
• Increase favor for Gary and Mog to 30-50 guaranteed.
  
• Add favor drops to treasure chests.
  

Running BHEs ad infinitum is boring. Please give as some viable and balanced choices.

What do you think?

kharkov58

That is not how Cryptic works. If they do anything, BHE drops will be reduced.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

fdsakhfduewhfiuf

I agree that doing the same repetitive stuff for four months will be boring beyond belief.

tom

its funny to see that grinding BHEs is the most efficient way to get favor xD.
Even funnier after remembering what chris whiteside said in a recent interview:

"it means that we have to produce content that is really immersive, that's really exciting, that doesn't feel really grindy"

source: https://bleedingcool.com/games/interview-chris-whiteside-for-neverwinter-avernus/

Looks like thats what they see as immersive and not grindy

arazith07

M20 is the first mod in which Chris will have more influence as per the latest stream in which he was present. Development cycles take a long time, and while he may of had some influence on M19, most of it would have already been pretty set on stone.

krymkac

Personally i think all the quests & weeklies in avernus should give zariel's favors while the even is on. Zariel's Challenge too. I mean common the endgamers shouldnt be forced to run ancient content & grind heroics to participate. We have done those dungeons countless times already. Killed countless devils & demons while doing avernus campaign. Also no love for pvp players? Why? -_- Ideally i would rather see unique dungeons or trials but we obviously wont see that. Changes to the current system are needed. Also whats up with unique rewards for top 100 players? They do know that normal ppl have lives & jobs & families right? Events should be designed around normal crowd not hardcore chinese\korean players with not even a hint of social life.

plasticbat

krymkac said:

Also whats up with unique rewards for top 100 players? They do know that normal ppl have lives & jobs & families right? Events should be designed around normal crowd not hardcore chinese\korean players with not even a hint of social life.

To be top 100, you can't be the 'normal' people. For the minimum, you need to be more dedicate than others. And in the end of the day, the reward is a rank 9 vorpal with different colour. I am pretty sure those 100 players have much better vorpal than that. So, what they 'earn' is the colour and invest more to upgrade this account bound enchantment to the highest rank.

anzacnw

Concerning rewards from BHEs:
Today I've noticed that a lot of players left the ongoing BHE after killing the mobs in the 1st phase, leaving only about 5 players to free prisoners/souls and killing the final boss. I haven't tested it but it seems that players still get the rewards even after switching instances, which is just lame.

Could you please make it so, that you have to be in the exact location right after the boss dies to get the rewards? That would be just fair.

callumf

Everyone needs to be careful what they wish for.

Track record is the Cryptic seems to favour making things MORE grindy not less

plasticbat

anzacnw said:

Concerning rewards from BHEs:
Today I've noticed that a lot of players left the ongoing BHE after killing the mobs in the 1st phase, leaving only about 5 players to free prisoners/souls and killing the final boss. I haven't tested it but it seems that players still get the rewards even after switching instances, which is just lame.

Could you please make it so, that you have to be in the exact location right after the boss dies to get the rewards? That would be just fair.

They might not leave the instance but ran to to do the mog in the same area. Or, they don't care about the 30 favors from the BHE at all. May be they care more about not getting into the next BHE.

rjc9000

tom#6998 said:

its funny to see that grinding BHEs is the most efficient way to get favor xD.
Even funnier after remembering what chris whiteside said in a recent interview:

"it means that we have to produce content that is really immersive, that's really exciting, that doesn't feel really grindy"

source: https://bleedingcool.com/games/interview-chris-whiteside-for-neverwinter-avernus/

Looks like thats what they see as immersive and not grindy

Just wait, they'll introduce Citadel renovating minigames with plumbing, carpentry, and trash removal for "immersion".

carloswartune

arazith07 said:

M20 is the first mod in which Chris will have more influence as per the latest stream in which he was present. Development cycles take a long time, and while he may of had some influence on M19, most of it would have already been pretty set on stone.

Chris joined the team before M18 was released.

People were hopeful for M18. It was a terrible HE grind. People said "It's ok, Chris is new, he'll have more influence in later content."

People were hopeful for Rage of Bel. It was a terrible HE grind. People said "It's ok, Chris is new, he'll have more influence later."

People were hopeful for M19. Decent mod, aside from the shameless copy from a FFXIV trial and badly designed healing changes. Could it be? Maybe Chris is finally having some influence after all!

And then we got the Redeemed Citadel, a terrible HE grind. People still say "It's ok, Chris is new, he'll have more influence later".

I wonder if we'll just move the goalposts once again if M20 turns out to be HAMSTER. And given their track record, it probably will be.

arazith07

carloswartune#5709 said:

arazith07 said:

M20 is the first mod in which Chris will have more influence as per the latest stream in which he was present. Development cycles take a long time, and while he may of had some influence on M19, most of it would have already been pretty set on stone.

Chris joined the team before M18 was released.

People were hopeful for M18. It was a terrible HE grind. People said "It's ok, Chris is new, he'll have more influence in later content."

People were hopeful for Rage of Bel. It was a terrible HE grind. People said "It's ok, Chris is new, he'll have more influence later."

People were hopeful for M19. Decent mod, aside from the shameless copy from a FFXIV trial and badly designed healing changes. Could it be? Maybe Chris is finally having some influence after all!

And then we got the Redeemed Citadel, a terrible HE grind. People still say "It's ok, Chris is new, he'll have more influence later".

I wonder if we'll just move the goalposts once again if M20 turns out to be HAMSTER. And given their track record, it probably will be.

I don't think you realize how long ahead they have to plan development for a game. Also note that what you are saying is the players thoughts, and what I said was what was said by Chris himself.

carloswartune

arazith07 said:

carloswartune#5709 said:

arazith07 said:

M20 is the first mod in which Chris will have more influence as per the latest stream in which he was present. Development cycles take a long time, and while he may of had some influence on M19, most of it would have already been pretty set on stone.

Chris joined the team before M18 was released.

People were hopeful for M18. It was a terrible HE grind. People said "It's ok, Chris is new, he'll have more influence in later content."

People were hopeful for Rage of Bel. It was a terrible HE grind. People said "It's ok, Chris is new, he'll have more influence later."

People were hopeful for M19. Decent mod, aside from the shameless copy from a FFXIV trial and badly designed healing changes. Could it be? Maybe Chris is finally having some influence after all!

And then we got the Redeemed Citadel, a terrible HE grind. People still say "It's ok, Chris is new, he'll have more influence later".

I wonder if we'll just move the goalposts once again if M20 turns out to be HAMSTER. And given their track record, it probably will be.

I don't think you realize how long ahead they have to plan development for a game. Also note that what you are saying is the players thoughts, and what I said was what was said by Chris himself.

I do realize. It's just frustrating that those extremely stupid design decisions like "farming BHEs all day" take so much time to be fixed. Overall design does need to be planned way ahead of time, but simple adjustments should have been simple to solve in a timely manner.

Also, here's what Chris said in a recent interview:

Ultimately, with Ascension, it's an idea that will allow us to develop Neverwinter so it has an even stronger foundation, which will make it an even more accessible game. In the course of a year, players can expect to find new types of ways of interacting socially, new methods of earning rewards, and also a mixture of vertical progression in Neverwinter modules and horizontal progression in Neverwinter episodes. We launched our first one [first episode, Rage of Bel] and it has done wonders as it brought a more gameplay-focused overall experience for players.

Rage of Bel. Most people hated the stupid HE grind, the weapons transmutes being bound to character instead of to account (something simple that could have been solved very quickly but wasn't), the stupid RNG needed to get any progress. And Chris describes it as something that "has done wonders as it brought a more gameplay-focused overall experience for players". This kind of content being described by the Executive Producer as "a good gameplay experience" is one of the reasons why I'm very skeptical about M20. But I do hope I'm wrong. Time will tell I guess.

adinosii

carloswartune#5709 said:

And Chris describes it as something that "has done wonders as it brought a more gameplay-focused overall experience for players". This kind of content being described by the Executive Producer as "a good gameplay experience" is one of the reasons why I'm very skeptical about M20. But I do hope I'm wrong. Time will tell I guess.

As I have said many times, Bel was pretty much a disaster. Not only because of the flawed design, the BtC HAMSTER, but also because of the apparent lack of any real testing and the issues with the rods and the achievements .. .and yes, we are still waiting for several issues to be fixed.

The Redeemed Citadel is decent by comparison - it actually feels like it was tested.....one bug that actually favours players, and a few minor issues....none of which are game breaking. I guess, however, that the real test will be when the server progress reaches 100% and the hunts become available.

alanea

carloswartune#5709 said:

Also, here's what Chris said in a recent interview:

Ultimately, with Ascension, it's an idea that will allow us to develop Neverwinter so it has an even stronger foundation, which will make it an even more accessible game. In the course of a year, players can expect to find new types of ways of interacting socially, new methods of earning rewards, and also a mixture of vertical progression in Neverwinter modules and horizontal progression in Neverwinter episodes. We launched our first one [first episode, Rage of Bel] and it has done wonders as it brought a more gameplay-focused overall experience for players.

better ways to interact socially? well now its clear he meant screaming inv bhe pls on each other

anzacnw said:

Concerning rewards from BHEs:
Today I've noticed that a lot of players left the ongoing BHE after killing the mobs in the 1st phase, leaving only about 5 players to free prisoners/souls and killing the final boss. I haven't tested it but it seems that players still get the rewards even after switching instances, which is just lame.

Could you please make it so, that you have to be in the exact location right after the boss dies to get the rewards? That would be just fair.

you have to joing HE in any way ... so lets say single hit to enemy to get reward ... but you need to stay in same instance

in past it required more .... but fgor example healers often missed rewards because they " didnt hit anything in last seconds ,,, or were too far at end reving downed person

for bel weapons ... bind to character wouldnt be that big issue .... but giving character bound paladin mace to wizard as reward is pathetic developer fail

unknowndrama

Its very boring..there should have been more ways to get yours favors..like the weekly dungeons should have been daily dungeons ..maps everything should associated whit Vallenhas/Avernus should have given favors..you only have 3 repetitive quest take takes more time then doing a bhe so...this episodes should have been called
Episode 1 Fellowship of BHE ..
Episode 2 Return of Bhe...
Episode 3 One BHE to rule Them All
Episode 4 Desolation of BHE

Anyway is this the content will you like to play ?!!!

alanea

unknowndrama said:

Its very boring..there should have been more ways to get yours favors..like the weekly dungeons should have been daily dungeons ..maps everything should associated whit Vallenhas/Avernus should have given favors..you only have 3 repetitive quest take takes more time then doing a bhe so...this episodes should have been called
Episode 1 Fellowship of BHE ..
Episode 2 Return of Bhe...
Episode 3 One BHE to rule Them All
Episode 4 Desolation of BHE

Anyway is this the content will you like to play ?!!!

well calling it content is strong word
but you forgot episode 5 stream where whiteside + juliakeep telling us us how we enjoying awesome bhe and more communication with people
+ bhe plzz 200k power

darthpotater

The first day I had fun with the missions, returning to old dungeons, looking for maps, etc.

After that, started to farming solo, then BHE,.... and the play time became a miserable experience. I hope they change the weekly challenges to daily, or they refresh when you complete all...

Also BHE gives nothing valuable, they could give a chance to get something like in a dungeon

clericalist

I can't understand why they did not add this to the professions like some of the other events. It would have been an ideal addition to alleviate the huge grind.

alanea

darthpotater said:

The first day I had fun with the missions, returning to old dungeons, looking for maps, etc.

After that, started to farming solo, then BHE,.... and the play time became a miserable experience. I hope they change the weekly challenges to daily, or they refresh when you complete all...

Also BHE gives nothing valuable, they could give a chance to get something like in a dungeon

well grinding existing monsters for maps or favors is just fake content you may see them telling us how great campaign we got but i fact people are just bored by tedious and mindless farm .. even if they give us repeatable quest for random dungeon it would be less awfull ...or if we still farmed maps instead hamstering bhe
absolute fail to explain anything about event to players prior to start leaving them guessing how will stuff work on reddit just turned very bad "chapter" parody making strong competition for worst fail in history module 6 "elemental fail"

geminisky59

As stated by one of the devs in a dev stream several months ago..it takes 1/6 the effort to make heroic encounters vs. dungeons. And I daresay the same us true of new creative content and storylines. I don’t think Cryptic has the staff/resources to make new content so have been going the HE route for some time now as a means for campaign progression. Repeatable content is not necessarily bad if designed with good rewards in mind. It’s almost comparable to Destiny now with all of their daily and weekly bounties. The difference is in the loot. Destiny has tons of variety whereas Neverwinter has little to none. We all grind now for the same one or two sets of gear that are exactly the same for everyone. How about making some new and unique class specific items? and unique artifacts instead of the two options we use. Give us some variety worth grinding for.

gabrieldourden

I think we are taking it the wrong way. We have 28 days to get there. Weekly challenges will give 2400x4=9600 (not counting in the bug we currently have) so we are talking of about 660 favors to be farmed everyday.
This means 20 minutes doing BHEs or 40 minutes doing quests according to the OP (my numbers would probably be 20 and 30-35 minutes respectively based on the 25k favors gained so far).
I would recommend raising a bit the quest rewards to get all options around 20-25 minutes x day. Anyway not a big grind, unless you want to do it for alts too and not only for your main.
It would be good to have more variety of weapons as @geminisky59#9345 mentioned hereabove, but that's part of a larger issue with all gear and boons being lackluster after mod16.

blag001

anzacnw said:

Concerning rewards from BHEs:
Today I've noticed that a lot of players left the ongoing BHE after killing the mobs in the 1st phase, leaving only about 5 players to free prisoners/souls and killing the final boss. I haven't tested it but it seems that players still get the rewards even after switching instances, which is just lame.

Could you please make it so, that you have to be in the exact location right after the boss dies to get the rewards? That would be just fair.

I noticed that when farming BHEs on the weekend. I'm not sure if they get the rewards in another intance, but I'm sure they just don't care. For the event it's 30 Favors, and they can get more of this if they change to another BHE and start killing big mobs (10 Fvrs each).

quickfoot

Nova suggest, in a youtube video, adding some daily challenges along with the weekly challenges, and adding better items to the store.

+1 to that.

Today some guild mates and I spent a good amount of time doing the weekly challenges, most of it was trying not to die at the end of hc MC (mostly due to lag issues, not that we suck that bad :P). While it was kinda frustrating, at least it was something to do with some friends and brought us into a dungeon we hadn't been to for a long time. Though, we're done with that for the week, and now there's only BHE's to farm which we'll probably do solo.

As for HC mode on it's own, it needs adjusting, something more like the Barovia hunts. It feels super wrong that in "Hardcore Mode", all the mobs are a breeze and bosses die in 10 seconds (except for a few built in anti smash mechanics that wipe the party if you do,e.g. msp), the only thing challenging about it is surviving those few mechanics that will one shot you. The difficulty in HC mode should be smoothed out such that mobs are more difficult, bosses are more difficult, while also adjusting some things like nostura's curse, bombs in cr at strahd, etc, to match some of the changes that have happened in recent months. In short, tougher/smarter mobs, tougher/smarter bosses, and less cheesy one-shot mechs, allow us to tune the difficulty with more/less options, and adjust the Zariels favor accordingly. Hell, make a couple dungeons a daily challenge and allow players to constantly run them in this new hardcore mode at their own tuned settings/rewards(favor) trade-off, and change the daily dungeon, daily. As HC mode currently stands, some dungeons are just going to be infeasible to do w/o anyone dying, it's going to be a real pain point, not because the content is hard, but because it's cheesy.

gabrieldourden

I think we should wait for the solo version of Zariel's Challenge and Hunts before we take conclusions.

greywynd

Too much effort for too little payout making the costs/milestone rather stupid in my opinion.

alanea

quickfoot#7851 said:

Nova suggest, in a youtube video, adding some daily challenges along with the weekly challenges, and adding better items to the store.

+1 to that.

yeah well dont count with that ... seeing how they just " fixed bug" that allowed everyone get 6 weekly challenges instead 3 doing exactly opposite of this suggestion

greywynd

alanea#4230 said:

yeah well dont count with that ... seeing how they just " fixed bug" that allowed everyone get 6 weekly challenges instead 3 doing exactly opposite of this suggestion

When did they fix that?

alanea

greywynd said:

When did they fix that?

no idea when exactly .... but yesterday doing one in each tier grayed and disabled other one