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Fighter Dreadnought needs rework !!!!!!

pantha7pantha7 Member Posts: 138 Arc User
1) he is very very slow and wipes in Infernal Citadel second boss !
''into the fray'' ability is useless since it does not help the party for buffs or more damage.
2)Vengeance fills very sloww and it's a problem when tank takes aggro from bosses
3) dps are slowww too , he has no ranged attacks ,encounter powers take a long time to reset , at-will powers inflict damage at a slow rate .
a wizard or a barbarian outdps dreadnoughts easily with difference..
4) i 'll be back if i think something.

Comments

  • durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 555 Arc User
    I have my popcorn ready for all the dreadnoughts who will say otherwise and prove your wrong~
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,324 Arc User

    I have my popcorn ready for all the dreadnoughts who will say otherwise and prove your wrong~

    Lou, there are people that like to play by the rules.
    Which, in that case, they are correct in saying that their damage sucks.

  • pantha7pantha7 Member Posts: 138 Arc User
    I saw mod 19's changes...lets hope they will make fighters better...
  • rev#7881 rev Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited June 2020

    I have my popcorn ready for all the dreadnoughts who will say otherwise and prove your wrong~


    You won't find any :)


    --------

    i kinda miss my old main, but mod 19 ain't gonna change anything

    most at-wills, feats, class features are still garbage...
    long cd's...
    bad class mechanic...

    HAMSTER i sound like a broken record, i remember saying the same on the mod 16 preview thread one year ago...
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,855 Arc User
    Fighter has at least 2 ranged attacks. One At-Will and one encounter.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • eightydarkbob#4823 eightydarkbob Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    pantha7 said:

    1) he is very very slow and wipes in Infernal Citadel second boss !
    ''into the fray'' ability is useless since it does not help the party for buffs or more damage.
    2)Vengeance fills very sloww and it's a problem when tank takes aggro from bosses
    3) dps are slowww too , he has no ranged attacks ,encounter powers take a long time to reset , at-will powers inflict damage at a slow rate .
    a wizard or a barbarian outdps dreadnoughts easily with difference..
    4) i 'll be back if i think something.

    1) Just learn the mechanics on the second boss, and you wont die. You dont have to use ITF if its bad. Just play with something else. We are not in mod 15 anymore.
    2) Just play with rolling hatred feat and problem solved and charge your vengeance before boss fights
    3) At-will reave is a range attack. Also you are not a wizard. Fighter is a melee class like the barb. Of course they are mostly melee. I bet you are not using the canceling which increase the difficulty of playing the class, but also rewards you with tons of damage increase. If you play the fighter properly, you can match barb in ToMM. Maybe not wizard, but barbs for sure.

    My thinking is : if a class seems to underperform, just work harder and find tricks to make it viable.

    If you want more tricks on the fighter, you can check my Youtube channel "eightydarkbob"
  • pantha7 said:




    3) At-will reave is a range attack. Also you are not a wizard. Fighter is a melee class like the barb. Of course they are mostly melee. I bet you are not using the canceling which increase the difficulty of playing the class, but also rewards you with tons of damage increase.

    My thinking is : if a class seems to underperform, just work harder and find tricks to make it viable.

    If you want more tricks on the fighter, you can check my Youtube channel "eightydarkbob"

    Could you explain to me what "The canceling" is ? I am a new level 80 fighter
  • abdalonangelabdalonangel Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    I agree with rework in class, but second boss it's easy, just mechanics. We need a rework mainly in GW, stupid last hit. And ITF give something useful. But, as said before if you has problems with vengeance use the feat. 5 vengeance per critical hit.

  • pantha7pantha7 Member Posts: 138 Arc User
    fighters dreadnoughts still need rework... i mean ............WHAT THE HELL CRYPTIC ....in neverwinter they don't pick up fighters for dungeons because they suck in dps , they are slow and encounters take ages to reset !!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Are you blind ... what the HAMSTER are yu doin ? creating more lockboxes to grab money ... go and balance the goddamn game period.
  • the1truehunterthe1truehunter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 211 Arc User
    If you find difficult the second boss in IC then you don`t know your class. The only bad thing about gf is the mobility vs single target, other than that dmg is great.
  • the1truehunterthe1truehunter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 211 Arc User
    I have a friend top dps in TOMM so I can`t believe what are you complain for because it doesn`t feel relevant. And I am telling you that because our avarage time for completion is 13-14mins/run and we deliver at least 200m dmg in this time.
  • nightstalker#9108 nightstalker Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    I agree, when are the Devs going to show some love for the Dreadnought DPS fighter? By definition "Fighter" should be a badas$ warrior able to deal out some respectable DPS but sadly they seem to be at the bottom of the DPS food chain! There may be a few exceptions with highly skilled players who have mastered animation cancelling, but for the most part for the average casual player as compared to other classes with players of equal skill level, fighter is usually last by a large margin, especially in single target fights like Tomm, no one wants a fighter for Tomm runs unless they're a tank.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    IMO, Reave at-will is underpowered. The four right-side feats on the top row need improvement to be viable in PvE still. If your fighter is dishing out low damage, at least make sure you are taking the entire bottom row of feat choices. From there on the class is fairly vanilla... its just a matter of picking the right gear and getting your Combat Advantage up over 130,000.

    I'm playing Dreadnaught every day and its not doing the damage my Rogue was doing, but I like how it feels and will stick with it for a while more. I also have Paladin, Barbarian, and Wizard that are maxed except for a couple boons and equips that I don't play because I prefer the Fighter right now. If I change it will be to either Ranger or Warlock next.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,324 Arc User

    By definition "Fighter" should be a badas$ warrior able to deal out some respectable DPS but sadly they seem to be at the bottom of the DPS food chain!

    Hey hey we're not quite bottom, Thaumaturge, Archer, and Whisperknife exist.

    The class' DPS output is passable. You may not win epeen chart races all the time, or clear dungeons as fast as top tiers, but it's not impossible to win fights.

    There may be a few exceptions with highly skilled players who have mastered animation cancelling

    This isn't Mod 18, there is not much of a distinction between players that cancel Heavy Slash versus players that hold down the button.

    At best, a player who meticulously cancels Heavy slash perfectly will only shave 0.1-0.2 seconds off of each hit and make their daily attack come off of cooldown 7-10 seconds faster.

    but for the most part for the average casual player as compared to other classes with players of equal skill level, fighter is usually last by a large margin

    GF is not exactly a hard class, that's just PUGs lacking stats and/or not picking the powers/feats/passives with the objectively strongest numbers.

    especially in single target fights like Tomm, no one wants a fighter for Tomm runs unless they're a tank.

    Being excluded from zerg groups/lfg channels is a problem of player mentality and those players looking for what is "the strongest".

    To avoid this problem, there's a nice strategy called ... "host your own group/go with friends/alliance". If your guild/"friends" don't want you because you play GF DPS, then you should find other people to hang out with.

    IMO, Reave at-will is underpowered.

    Stop using it as a primary At-will on single target.
    Reave is fine as is for AoE damage, or as a ranged chip damage.

    If you want a spammable single target At-will, literally just hold down Heavy Slash.
    Or if you're insistent on using Heavier Slash for single target, use Brazen Slash.

    The four right-side feats on the top row need improvement to be viable in PvE still.

    Well, it's not like players gave the devs suggestions on how to improve those feats ...

  • tgwolftgwolf Member Posts: 359 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    Fighter is the Melee version of Wizard; a Nightmare if it crits, kinda pathetic if it doesn't.

    Fighter optimally requires 2 or 3 loadouts depending on what you run:

    AoE
    ST
    Tank

    Some DPS can work ST/AoE just by switching around some Powers, Fighter doesn't really work that way.

    Here's a mini guide. Obvious choices will have less explanation.

    Keep in mind that if this doesn't suit/work for you, that's fine. Don't let people force you into a set "accepted" build; of course this doesn't mean go completely rogue (I highly recommend Rogue btw xD) and turn off your brain but what is important comes down to:

    - Are you contributing?
    - Are you completing content "comfortably"?

    As long as the answer is Yes, you're doing fine.


    Dreadnought - AoE:

    You'll use this most of the time. Why hit just one thing when hit many thing do trick? X3

    At Wills:
    Heavy Slash - Damage and Buff.

    Reave - The only Ranged and Multi-target at-will you have.

    Encounters:
    Shield Slam - For the knockdown.

    Tremor - Reliable AoE Encounter.

    Onslaught - Strongest AoE you have.

    Dailies:
    Earthshaker - To be fair, you're not going to use this a lot in standard gameplay. It's for HEs and Bosses when you don't have the chance to swap to ST. Feated (see below) this is to erase, or at least cripple a troublesome mob and get the most out of Envenomed Tome Artifact use.

    Second Wind/Determination - This is a choose your preference. Second Wind if your damage is fine but you need that little bit of healing or Determination if you need a bit more Damage. Both are good. I personally like Second Wind; my damage is good but a stray crit. at the wrong time can necessitate a bit of healing support when Solo.

    Class Features:
    Combat Superiority - Inevitably, you're going to have all your Encounters on CD and a little extra damage on your At-Wills doesn't hurt. Especially with Heavier Slash feat'd.

    Enduring Vengeance - This is your lifeblood and the core to Dreadnought DPS. The extra 5% damage for a total of 25% damage dealt while your Vengeance remains over 50% is crucial to getting the most out of every attack.

    Feats:
    Heavier Slash vs Weight of Vengeance - Heavier Slash is your best AoE choice since you shouldn't be using any ST encounters. Once you complete your AoE Rotation there will usually be an Elite still standing and in this build your Encounters aren't worth using on single targets. Heavy Slash > Reave until Heavier Slash Procs. > Heavier Slash then repeat.

    Ricochet vs Prepared Slam - The point the whole build revolves around. Hit a target with Heavy Slash then as long as you're hitting at least two targets with your AoE Encounter, you deal significantly more damage, then refresh by using Heavy Slash again and repeat. 'Nuff said.

    Crushing Blows vs Roiling Hatred - Don't fall into the trap of Crushing Blows, if your ArPen is anywhere near your Power, especially at endgame, then you've screwed up your stats terribly. Roiling Hatred lessens the need to Seethe during fights greatly and that means you keep your Vengeance buffs up easier. Using Seethe to guard if you don't need to move doesn't hurt though.

    Landwaster vs Striker's Mark - For AoE, if you're going to deal damage with a Daily, let's make it AoE damage. If you can deal AoE damage twice for one Daily, then go for it. As mentioned above, you're not just going to be throwing out Dailies as a Fighter every chance you get but this is your "Erase a Mob" Feat. As payment you will lose your 20+5% damage boost from Vengeance temporarily but you can Seethe back to over 50% very fast so it's okay. Also if you want to use your Daily but want to keep your Vengeance just let it fall below 90% first so it won't be consumed.

    Bloody Reprise vs Executioner's Cut - If you've followed along, you know why Bloody Reprise isn't that great. The goal is to stay ABOVE 50% Vengeance 99.9% of the time and a Feat that would therefore only be active for that .1% as well as only giving you a measly 2 seconds to utilize it is tbh a joke. Executioner's Cut however is very simple and has no downsides. You deal a small amount more damage to aid in finishing off enemies and you get a little bit of Vengeance as well. Nice and simple.

    Here is your basic Rotation:

    Open with Heavy Slash:
    - Targets can CC you but aren't immune to CC: Shield Slam > HS > Onslaught > HS > Tremor
    - Targets can CC you and are immune to CC: Tremor > HS > Block CC > Onslaught/Shield Slam based on perceived time between incoming CC > HS > Remaining Encounter
    - Targets cannot CC you: Onslaught > HS > Tremor > HS > Shield Slam

    When only a Single Target remains or Encounters are on CD, hit with HS > Reave until Heavier Slash procs. followed by HS x2 > Reave and repeat.

    You can also use the x2 > x2.. method:

    HS x2 > Reave x2 > HS x2... on Single Targets or full CDs. This gives you the benefit of doing the higher damage of consecutive Heavy Slashes while giving a good chance of proc-ing Heavier Slash.

    Don't waste your Encounters on Single Targets. It's generally not worth it.


    Dreadnought - ST:

    For all your Boss killing needs.

    At Wills:
    Heavy Slash - Damage and Buff.

    Brazen Slash - For the Stamina Regen. ST build consumes Vengeance (see below)

    Reave - Only equip this in place of Brazen Slash when facing Bosses you don't want to/can't be near often or you have Shield Throw equipped.

    Encounters:
    Commander's Strike - Target takes 10% more Physical damage for 10s. You do Physical damage. So do other people; sometimes. Also for "Ooh, Crit Me Daddy!" attack (see below)

    Anvil of Doom - You're going to Feat this. It's going to hurt things and you're going to love it.

    Bull Charge - It does great damage and Feat'd, won't annoy people.

    Shield Throw - Put this in place of Commander's Strike if forced to stay in ST between Boss fights.

    Dailies:
    Mow Down - The Attack part of the "Ooh, Crit Me Daddy!" attack. Hope it crits because it's kinda disappointing otherwise.

    Second Wind/Determination - Again, your choice. However since you'll most likely be in a group, hence have a Healer, Determination is the "better" choice. Let's face it, you're not using this over the other Daily anyway. I again personally use Second Wind for the situation where the Healer has gone down but a clutch is still possible if I and whoever else is left can survive.

    Class Features:
    Momentum - Bull Charge gets buffed for 300 and loses the part that makes people mad when you use it. Win. Also you can "gotta go fast" with it.

    Enduring Vengeance - For the extra 5% damage buff if you keep it over 50%. Slightly harder to do but not that hard.

    Feats:
    Heavier Slash vs Weight of Vengeance - Anvil of Doom gets buffed by 380 with a 4s CD reduction. Yes. It eats 15 Vengeance each time but all that changes is you need to keep a closer eye on your meter.

    Ricochet vs Prepared Slam - You're not doing AoE and if forced to temporarily, Shield Throw is adequate while allowing you to keep using Anvil and Bull for cleanup. In this case you use Reave for the CD reset chance so you can spam it a bit.

    Crushing Blows vs Roiling Hatred - Remember Crushing Blows = Trap. Railing Hatred helps keep your Vengeance up between Anvils.

    Landwaster vs Striker's Mark - What makes "Ooh, Crit Me Daddy!" work. Consume your Commander's Strike to make Mow Down a 2000 Mag. attack. If it crits; MMMMFF. If not, well you tried. *ahem*

    Bloody Reprise vs Executioner's Cut - For Bosses, they'll be alive at <30% longer so it's even better. Potentially.

    Rotation is fairly free-form:

    Open with HS:
    - Use CS > Anvil/Bull then the other > "Ooh, Crit Me Daddy" if ready or At-Wills if not.

    Repeat.

    Try not to get stuck in ST build outside of Boss fights, it's not a fun time.



    Vanguard:

    Although this is mostly about Dreadnought, here is my Vanguard build as well. If you think you'll like it, try it out. If not, do you.

    At Wills:
    Brazen Slash - For Stamina Regen.

    Threatening Rush - Increased Threat and Mobility between targets.

    Encounters:
    Shield Throw - Feated it has almost no CD and generates enough Threat to keep you the target.

    Enforced Threat - For Murder Hobo groups in particular. To prevent them being murdered back.

    Linebreaker - To get to the mob first so you can gather them for the group to kill. Plus it increases Threat.

    Anvil/Bull - For Boss fights and depending on several factors I'll discuss at the end.

    Dailies:
    Bladed Rampart - Feated you're harder to hurt, immune to CA and you hurt everything that attacks you.

    Second Wind - If the Healer isn't or can't heal you.

    Class Features:
    *deep breath*

    Shield Talent - If your DPS is bad and can't kill things fast.

    Ferocious Reaction - If you're feeling spiky.

    Anvil of Challenge - If you're using it.

    Combat Superiority/Steel Recovery - If you can't decide.

    Honestly, the Class Feats aren't that great.

    Feats:
    Shieldthrower vs Staying Power - An Encounter that you can use constantly that gains Threat gen beats adding some minor Threat gen to a Power that puts you at the top of the list anyway.

    Rising Tide vs Cleaving Bull - Tide of Iron is not great in general and neither is the buff vs a decent utility buff if you need to assist in mob clearing.

    Critical Deflection vs Combat Balance - Oooh, controversial xP. This is just my preference; in the way I play I always have Stamina to block the huge hits where CB is not active and when my Guard is down it's usually for the purpose of regaining Stamina and every bit helps. Crit. Strike will always be higher than Deflection so you get the full benefit from CD but keeping C.Avoid, Deflect and Awareness perfectly even is extremely hard no matter what you do.

    Sharpened Senses vs Perfect Block - I use Bladed Rampart and a 3 min CD on anything is terrible. Perfect Block can be super clutch but I'd prefer that situation not occur to begin with.

    Shake it Off vs Deep Breathing - Retaliate is a damage bomb you can use every 10 seconds with potentially a 600 Mag. payout. If you have occasion to sit around for 9 seconds doing nothing.. ehh.. you might want to look into what's going wrong. Because I guarantee you, something is.


    Anvil is for ST Boss fights, replace Linebreaker; equip Anvil of Challenge. Grants you 2 options to Hard Taunt.

    Bull Charge can be used to replace Shield Throw to aid in mob clearing or Bosses with annoying Adds.



    Boons, Gear, Artifacts and their uses etc. are covered by a multitude of sources. Also by general Common Sense.

    This should be enough to cover basic use of the Fighter.
  • ivanrichmaivanrichma Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    I dont know how to post the image other than this but this is how i do in dungeons and between boss and aoe i switch 2 encounters for aoe onslaught and tremor with anvil and boss/st anvil commander n griffin also my trick is using legy griffins equip power instead of power bonus with 2x artificiers so i kinda have a double rotation
    https://postimg.cc/5QXc2zQN
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    Does your Reave deal 10% of your health in damage?


    Reave magnitude = 45

    With a 5,000 damage weapon and a buff of +50% damage, the base damage would be 3,375. Triple that from power, double that from crit hit, and double it again for Combat Advantage and it becomes.... 40,500. You have to crit, get combat advantage, and have good stats before you COULD proc Butcher's Might.
  • pantha7pantha7 Member Posts: 138 Arc User
    can someone tell the devs to bring Lurging strike back ? and description tooltips in powers are totally wrong...where are the old ones ?
  • pantha7pantha7 Member Posts: 138 Arc User
    Hi there thank you for your support of the post i 've made... where are the devs ... they don't respond to classes forums when a class needs critical changes ?
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