Mod.19 Fighter. Any changes ?

exgardian

...Sorry my bad english...

I didn't see any changes in both paragons yet, but I think Fighters, specially the DPS role, need some "love". The class have good burst damage, but will never be a top tier damage like melee Rangers or Rogues.

Some enchantments like Bilethorn, are BiS for almost all DPS classes, but not for Fighter, because all their at-wills but Reave, are slow, leaving the Vorpal the only good option.

Are there any changes planned for this class in this module?

rjc9000

exgardian said:

...Sorry my bad english...

I didn't see any changes in both paragons yet, but I think Fighters, specially the DPS role, need some "love". The class have good burst damage, but will never be a top tier damage like melee Rangers or Rogues.

Some enchantments like Bilethorn, are BiS for almost all DPS classes, but not for Fighter, because all their at-wills but Reave, are slow, leaving the Vorpal the only good option.

Are there any changes planned for this class in this module?

These are the ones I noticed:

Commander's Strike: Base damage increased to 600 magnitude (from 560), cooldown decreased to (edit) 18 seconds (from 21 seconds).
Weight of Vengeance: Damage bonus increased to 380 magnitude (from 300), Vengeance cost decreased to 15 (from 25)
Crushing Blows: Fixed a bug where Crushing Blows was not calculating your Power correctly (note: speculation on my part based on data I gathered in Mod 18), base damage per proc increased to 150 mag (from 100 mag).

Also, in a case of hilarious irony, this post from noworries many months ago claimed that, in Mod 19, GF DPS and SW DPS were the main targets of rework.

noworries#8859 said:

In M19 the two main classes being adjusted for balance are the Dreadnought and the Hellbringer.

Whereas in reality, Barbarian and Hunter spec Ranger seemed to be the main targets of reworks (aside from things like healer changes).

Also, yes for you random Owlbear players reading this post, I'm aware of the irony of me pointing out this hilarious irony. Unfortunately, I think the devs' hands are tied figuring out how to rework some aspects of GF DPS without breaking others.

demarw2

Yeah. I also remember noworries comment. But these changes are minor... That's sad. Changing our Vigorous Strikes class feature to critical severity (up to 20%) could maybe compensate our lag of damage.

But the Barbies will get some big changes. Maybe they can become one of the best dps classes in mod 19. That's pretty cool for them.

xander

rjc9000 said:

Whereas in reality, Barbarian and Hunter spec Ranger seemed to be the main targets of reworks (aside from things like healer changes).

can i ask you ( if you know) what changed for barbarians? i saw only 2 increase in magnitude in bloodletter and frenzy

giz

xander#0631 said:

rjc9000 said:

Whereas in reality, Barbarian and Hunter spec Ranger seemed to be the main targets of reworks (aside from things like healer changes).

can i ask you ( if you know) what changed for barbarians? i saw only 2 increase in magnitude in bloodletter and frenzy

And that's not enough? 900+ magnitude and shorter cooldown for ST encounters? there's a change for rage if i'm not wrong (played few minutes on my barb on preview but rage is easy to build now) Barbarian will be one of the META DPS for Zariel's, The Hellbringer and Dreadnought reworks are a joke compared with Barb buffs.

xander

@giz i don't really know, my mind was full of tought for my cleric (and the zariel companion) that i didn't even saw changes to my other classes but that is good to know, ty.
i wonder if they will write a complete patch notes for all the changes in the classes...

rikitaki

rjc9000 said:

Whereas in reality, Barbarian and Hunter spec Ranger seemed to be the main targets of reworks (aside from things like healer changes).

Oh, yes, Hunter got attention... I guess we desperately needed that nerf to AP gain? It is sad that that is all we effectively got. The minor tweaks to powers that are still not worth using... is somehow completely wasted effort?
Anyway, you do not need to fear that a league of mighty hunters now overshadow your dps contribution. If it was not happening up till now, hardly will become common after taking that must-have-feat away.

rjc9000

rikitaki said:

rjc9000 said:

Whereas in reality, Barbarian and Hunter spec Ranger seemed to be the main targets of reworks (aside from things like healer changes).

Oh, yes, Hunter got attention... I guess we desperately needed that nerf to AP gain? It is sad that that is all we effectively got. The minor tweaks to powers that are still not worth using... is somehow completely wasted effort?
Anyway, you do not need to fear that a league of mighty hunters now overshadow your dps contribution. If it was not happening up till now, hardly will become common after taking that must-have-feat away.

It was a joke, relax.
Non cheesing GFs are down there in the bottom tier with Hunter as well.

I was merely pointing out the irony of noworries comment saying that Mod 19 is a SW/GF focused module, where in reality, Barbarian and Hunter (to a lesser extent) got the most changes.

I would also note that it is the Trapper set of feats/powers that got changes: Rate of Change, Cordon getting roots, changes to Forestbond, and a strange nerf to Biting Snares.

I think that it's very likely that Archer focused changes could happen depending on how open the devs are to ideas.

rikitaki

Don't worry, I do not take this game personally. Quite the contrary. It really is funny - because you can find many tweaks, but actually nothing got better for the player's dps perspective.

OK, so we add the roots here and there... while there were already other alternatives with bigger damage magnitudes and shorter cooldowns. I mean... so much work and the result can be summarised in AP gain nerf? Devs are bored. Really.

So, if your class gets anything useful - anything at all, cherish it. Even if it is only a single thing... Because they attempted to fix Hunter's low single target damage output by nerfing the AP gain... I just,... I just really have to laugh.

abdalonangel

Neverwinter just want all Fighters plays as tank. DPS fighter is a joke for now, yeah we have high magnitude in one encounter (Griffon's), but others encounters and our at-will (except Heavy Slash) are weak and slow. So, NW is doing a bad joking with us.They really want us as tanks and only tanks.

exgardian

No DPS Fighter uses Crushing Blow, because they need to have Power = Armor Pen to have the bonus damage. This feat need to be reworked to worth to use.

demarw2

And Fighters and Barbarians should get 3 offensive companion slots as a dps role instead of 3 defensive. While switching to a tank role they should get 3 defensive. With Batiri and Raptor compared to Iounstone and Minstrel our damage will also be increased.

gabrieldourden

rjc9000 said:

rikitaki said:

rjc9000 said:

Whereas in reality, Barbarian and Hunter spec Ranger seemed to be the main targets of reworks (aside from things like healer changes).

Oh, yes, Hunter got attention... I guess we desperately needed that nerf to AP gain? It is sad that that is all we effectively got. The minor tweaks to powers that are still not worth using... is somehow completely wasted effort?
Anyway, you do not need to fear that a league of mighty hunters now overshadow your dps contribution. If it was not happening up till now, hardly will become common after taking that must-have-feat away.

It was a joke, relax.
Non cheesing GFs are down there in the bottom tier with Hunter as well.

I was merely pointing out the irony of noworries comment saying that Mod 19 is a SW/GF focused module, where in reality, Barbarian and Hunter (to a lesser extent) got the most changes.

I would also note that it is the Trapper set of feats/powers that got changes: Rate of Change, Cordon getting roots, changes to Forestbond, and a strange nerf to Biting Snares.

I think that it's very likely that Archer focused changes could happen depending on how open the devs are to ideas.

The root-using-kind-of-trapper spec with Cordon, Constrictive and Hindering works quite well with mobs. The real problem is single target where it is not possible to keep up a decent rotation of encounters and with the very low damage of at-wills there are holes in DPS.
Testing yesterday an Archer against dummies I could see bursts of 2 million dmg in two seconds going Disruptive Shot-Commanding Shot-Longstrider Shot-Constrictive Arrow (with Seeker's Vengeance, Aspect of the Falcon, Apprentice Spoil's set and More than Disruptive) but then it's basically low-damage at-wills until you refresh the rotation.
Adding a cooldown reduction to Aimed Shot could make an Archery set-up interesting, and it would be good to bring Binding Arrow to the Hunter side. Bringing back Longstrider's buff (only for the ranger) would also be an option to close the gap wity other specs and the code is probably still there.

demarw2

I think after these changes to Barbarians and SW our poor GF will be again the weakest dps. I really like M19s changes on the GF dps! But compared to the Barbarian they are really small. And we are in mod 18 also in such a bad position like the Barbarians. So our damage buff should have a comparable amount.

@noworries#8859: Some little changes could make us more competitive:

- Remove that long animation on Griffons Wraths third hit. It could be like the first hit.
- Vigorous Strikes with Crit Severity instead of Crit Chance.
- Vengeful damage buff 25% (up from 20%).

shaolinta

I wish digin on the tank was faster, it is useless if I put a life in putting the shield that tank is?

mcfob

- Remove that long animation on Griffons Wraths third hit. It could be like the first hit.
- Vigorous Strikes with Crit Severity instead of Crit Chance.
- Vengeful damage buff 25% (up from 20%).
- Remove power=arm pen on crushing blows
- cooldown on commanders needs to be 14 sec, 18 still too long

I am not even going to bring up potty squat as I assume we will be stuck with that horrendous thing forever

klangeddin

The problem with the fighter tanks is not the damage they deal, which is actually kind of fine.
The problem are the powers that suck and are unreliable (Iron Warrior, Knight's Valor, Knight's Challenge) and the fact that, compared to the pre mod 16 version, it's boring to play, there is no resource management, only long cooldowns encounters, nearly irrelevant at-wills and that terrible dig-in. Apparently the only things we are supposed to do is to try to "maximize" our damage. All the pre mod 16 support and marking went out of the window (not to mention that encounters had generally lower cooldowns, so everything happened faster and there were less dead times).

Also, the AoE aggro kinda sucks, especially if you miss with a Shield Slam or the Vanguard charge-like encounter (I even forgot the name) charges in a completely different direction because the enemy is headin towards you at great speed (boy does that happen).

Paladin tanks have the edge in terms of "fun" since they get the choice between encounters with a cooldown and encounters without a cooldown but with resource management, that opens up options and makes the gameplay much less monotonous, heck when they are low on Divinity, swapping encounters in the middle of the combat becomes even a viable strategy for them!

Fighter Vanguard needs to be funnier to play and to provide reliable group benefits. Also, dig-in needs to go, plain and simple.
I agree, however, with those who say that we can't go to those conqueror mod 15 builds with with Knight's Challenge, Gripphon Wrath and Into the Fray one shotted Orcus... yeah, that was silly and it's a good thing that it's gone.

Edit: HAMSTER, I posted this in the wrong thread! oh well..